BS: Translation needed: German to English

09 Oct 03 - 01:11 PM (#1032521)
Subject: BS: Translation needed: German to English
From: Rapparee

I have on my desk a sign reading "StutzpunKt=Stollen" (the first u is umlauted).

The sign was taken as a souvenir in World War I, and is currently the property of the local American Legion post. The question is: what does the sign translate as?

Babelfish doesn't translate the first word at all, and says that "stollen" mean "lug".

Any help would be appreciated.

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09 Oct 03 - 01:15 PM (#1032528)
Subject: RE: BS: Translation needed: German to English
From: John MacKenzie

Andy is your man, Muddy name is Mudguard, lives in and is German.[y]
Giok

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09 Oct 03 - 01:17 PM (#1032529)
Subject: RE: BS: Translation needed: German to English
From: Uncle_DaveO

As I recall, the word element "punkt" can be roughly read as "point".

Dave Oesterreich

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09 Oct 03 - 01:26 PM (#1032539)
Subject: RE: BS: Translation needed: German to English
From: jeffp

Stollen is also "a rich yeast bread containing reaisins, citron, and chopped nutmeats. [German, prop, support, stollen. See stull]

Stull-1. A supporting timber or other prop in a mine. 2. A platform braced against the sides of a working area in a mine. [probably from German Stollen, frim Middle High German stolle, prop, support, from Old High German stollo."

Source: The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language - Third Edition

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09 Oct 03 - 01:59 PM (#1032563)
Subject: RE: BS: Translation needed: German to English
From: Joe Offer

Hi, Rapaire - I hope some of the native speakers will be able to put it into context. Is there an "equals" sign between the two words? Literally, Stützpunkt means "point of support." The Brockhaus German-English dictionary gives the following definitions: point of support, base footing, fulcrum (technical), base (military), strong point.

The only meaning I know right off for Stollen is the candied-fruit coffee cake I used to like when I was a kid in Wisconsin. It was covered with powdered sugar, so it was delightfully messy. Brockhaus says it's a mining term for gallery or tunnel, and a military term for a deep dug-out.

You'll find the terms used here in a military context. Let me think a while and see if I can figure it out.
... but it may take a native speaker to put the words together into context. It will be interesting to see if MudGuard can do it. I have a hunch he might be too young [sorry, MudGuard ;-) ]

-Joe Offer-

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09 Oct 03 - 02:51 PM (#1032590)
Subject: RE: BS: Translation needed: German to English
From: GUEST,Wolfgang

I'm without dictionary at the moment, alas.

Stützpunkt in this context is most likely 'base', as Joe had it.

'Stollen' here is nothing to eat.
It also here is not what footballers have below their shoes to prevent slipping.
It is (oh, my memory):

I'll describe it to you: in mining, it is an underground man-made tunnel going parallel to earth surface.

In military context, it is any tunnel going roughly parallel to the earth, but it has to be fully below the earth, otherwise it would be 'Graben'.

Base:tunnel (if tunnel is the right word in military context) is the translation, but I don't know what that actually meqans in that context.

Wolfgang

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09 Oct 03 - 03:09 PM (#1032600)
Subject: RE: BS: Translation needed: German to English
From: Joe Offer

Hi, Wolfgang - you don't have Stollen cake in your part of Germany? I think we were able to get it in Berlin when I lived there. It was almost like bread in texture, yellowish-white inside with bits of dried fruit and nuts inside, usually served at Christmas. You'll find a recipe here (click). There's a photograph here (click).
-Joe Offer-

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09 Oct 03 - 03:25 PM (#1032609)
Subject: RE: BS: Translation needed: German to English
From: Rapparee

Sounds like it's a directional sign meaning "The Base (Strong point, maybe Command Post) is (in) the Tunnel". I suppose that it could mean a dugout, bunker -- some sort of underground place.

I appreciate the help! This is going to be part of a display for Veterans' (Armistice) Day. A sign with it will read "At the 11th hour, Of the 11th day, Of the 11th month, The guns fell silent. [spaces] The sun's shining down on the green fields of France;/The warm wind blows gently, and the red poppies dance./The trenches have vanished long under the plow;/No gas and no barbed wire, no guns firing now. -- Eric Bogle"

There will be an (American) Enfield P-17 rifle and a German officers saber resting on an Army blanket of the period, some fired 30-06 cartridge cases, the sign I've asked about, and some rusty barbed wire. These in a horizontal display case.

Other items -- and American "flat hat" helmet and a gas mask, a German helmet and a gas mask, a cartoon -- will also be displayed in a vertical case.

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09 Oct 03 - 03:31 PM (#1032615)
Subject: RE: BS: Translation needed: German to English
From: Mr Red

What would a covered trench be in German? - there were a lot of them then.

The allied forces even gave them names like Picadilly circus and de Ath St Shrapnell Alley and Lovers Lane - I saw some genuine street signs from the trenches in the Imperial War Museum a couple of years back.

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09 Oct 03 - 04:01 PM (#1032634)
Subject: RE: BS: Translation needed: German to English
From: Arnie

Don't want to dwell on the war too much (don't mention the War!!) but on Dover seafront is a sign taken from a German big gun based at Calais in WWII. It shows an eagle with a shell in it's claws and the slogan below is 'Es flogen gegen Engeland' which I believe means 'Fired towards England' - there then follows a pictorial record showing how many shells were fired at Dover each day from 1941 until D-day. An interesting piece of history but I often wonder what the many German visitors to the town make of it....

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09 Oct 03 - 04:22 PM (#1032647)
Subject: RE: BS: Translation needed: German to English
From: Rapparee

History, Arnie, isn't always what we'd like it to be....

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09 Oct 03 - 04:30 PM (#1032652)
Subject: RE: BS: Translation needed: German to English
From: Micca

A useful Allies WW1 slang dictionary is here I sounds to me like a sign from a Sap(cf) directing to the strong underground Bunker area where maybe support troops would gather during bombardment, ready to emerge to counterattack.

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10 Oct 03 - 02:42 AM (#1032908)
Subject: RE: BS: Translation needed: German to English
From: alanabit

I can only say that Wolfgang and Joe are almost certainly right. In a military context, the word "Stollen" must refer to an underground tunnel.
The Christmas cake probably got its name because the marzipan filling is essentially wrapped in a fruit cake "tunnel". Ina usually makes some at Christmas - and very tasty it is too. I am surprised you don't see it in Münster, Wolfgang. You certainly see it everywhere in Köln!

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10 Oct 03 - 03:18 AM (#1032915)
Subject: RE: BS: Translation needed: German to English
From: GUEST,Wolfgang

Mr. Red,

covered trench is what I meant, thanks. It would be 'Tunnel' or 'Stollen' in German.

Joe and Alan,

my ambiguous language led you both down the garden path. With 'here' I did not mean 'Muenster' but 'in the context of this thread'. But I see that your misunderstanding was nearly unavoidable. Of course I do know and like Stollen. Even Aldi has it and that means it is no longer locally restricted. They do their worst, much to my dismay, to make it no longer restricted in time, and to seel it all the year insted of close to Christmas. But I won't buy it before November, no I won't.

Alan,

I don't know the etymology of the word. For Stollen as a cake I have the association to mining, for all the good things to be found in that cake. But my guess is no better than Alan's and (since that cake originated from the very East of Germany) I wouldn't be too surprised (what comes now is pure phantasy) if I really came from a Slavic word 'stolny' meaning 'tastes good'.

Wolfgang

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30 Aug 07 - 07:50 PM (#2137213)
Subject: Garni - what's it mean?
From: Joe Offer

Garni

- any help?
I'm not familiar with the tern "garni" to describe accommodations. One dictionary says simply that it's a furnished room in a guest house that offers only breakfast, but what's the difference between that and a Pension? My friends are staying in a place called Garni Gatterer in Brixen in South Tyrol (Italy), and they were looking for detailed information about the place. As you can see, the link doesn't give much other than it's a two-star place. Can anybody explain the term "garni," and can you find specific information about this place?
Brixen sounds like a wonderful town. Although it has been part of Italy since the end of World War I, Sütirol appears to be primarily a German-speaking province.
Vielen Dank.
-Joe-

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30 Aug 07 - 10:58 PM (#2137306)
Subject: RE: BS: Translation needed: German to English
From: Rapparee

Maybe they'll bring you back some lederhosen.

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31 Aug 07 - 01:11 AM (#2137423)
Subject: RE: BS: Translation needed: German to English
From: GUEST,http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&lang=de&sea

For future reference, here is the URL for a German-English dictionary site:

http://dict.leo.org/ende?

One of the meanings for "Stollen" is "an underground shelter." That's probably it.

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03 Sep 07 - 07:15 AM (#2139547)
Subject: RE: BS: Translation needed: German to English
From: Wolfgang

(It could be different in other German speaking countries)

"Garni" comes (I think) from "garnieren" (ausstatten, schmuecken).
"Hotel garni" (I only know this order of the words) is a hotel without restaurant that only provides breakfast just like a "Pension" might do. The difference between "Pension" and "Hotel" is only the status of the owner. The owner of a hotel has no other (relevant) income than the hotel but the owner of a "Pension" (pronounced the French way) has another main income.

A farmer for instance also renting spare rooms to tourist has a "Pension". Therefore a Pension is usually smaller and less expensive than a Hotel. I'm sure there are less regulations to follow forthe owner of a Pension but I don't know which additional regulations are there for a hotel.

Wolfgang

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03 Sep 07 - 07:36 AM (#2139558)
Subject: RE: BS: Translation needed: German to English
From: Ron Davies

I would bet that "Stutzpunkt Stollen" is just a humorous military-style way to say, "Get your stollen here". Non-Germans tend to believe the Germans have no sense of humor. Not so.

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03 Sep 07 - 08:07 AM (#2139578)
Subject: RE: BS: Translation needed: German to English
From: Mr Red

There is no reason why it can't be both at once. Humour, after all, relies on ambiguity and surprise almost all of the time for effect. Certainly the irony would not be lost on war weary soldiers looking for humour in bleak circumstances.

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03 Sep 07 - 08:30 AM (#2139590)
Subject: RE: BS: Translation needed: German to English
From: Ron Davies

My point is that "the Huns" were as capable of a sense of humor as anybody else.

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03 Sep 07 - 08:50 PM (#2140138)
Subject: RE: BS: Translation needed: German to English
From: Joe_F

Stuetzpunkt: fulcrum; strong point (Mil.); point of support, basis, base; foothold. -- says Cassell's

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04 Sep 07 - 02:43 AM (#2140286)
Subject: RE: BS: Translation needed: German to English
From: Wilfried Schaum

Now the final solution of Rapaire's question by an Infantry officer whose ancestors have fought in the trenches:

Stuetzpunkt is a stronghold, sometimes as a bunker = "pill box", and stollen is a mine = a tunnel under the surface, as Wolfgang stated.
The strongholds were used to reinforce certain sections of the trench net, manned by machine guns, trench mortars, and sometimes "Infanteriebegleitgeschuetze" (guns accompanying Infantry, i. e. not behind, but in the line).

When a part of the trench system was covered it was called dugout, mostly for housing of CPs, medics, telephone exchanges or living rooms for squads. Covered trenches weren't suited for the fighting by musketry.

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04 Sep 07 - 10:00 PM (#2141120)
Subject: RE: BS: Translation needed: German to English
From: Ron Davies

Wilfried--


Thanks for answering the question with authority. I was obviously wrong. It's impressive how much you can learn from Mudcat.

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