BS: Air Shows

09 Oct 03 - 05:19 PM (#1032680)
Subject: BS: Air Shows
From: mack/misophist

At this moment, The Navy's Blue Angels are flying over San Francisco, practicing for an upcoming air show. It happens every year at this time. Every year the Navy blandly assures us that the pilots stay well above the minimum altitude. Three years ago I saw a pilots head through the canopy as he flew over a supermarket parking lot. Fifteen minutes ago, two planes were low enough for me to see the shape of the letters on the side and the lines of the canopy bracing struts. I suspect the Navy of telling lies. Some day one of them will crash. It happens. It's happened before. And decades of citizen complaints will probably be swept under the rug. It's a couple of years since I saw the number; I think the minimum altitude is 700 feet, which seems a little low for comfort.

End of rant.

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10 Oct 03 - 08:32 AM (#1033046)
Subject: RE: BS: Air Shows
From: Mooh

Air shows have always been a mystery to me. Not discounting the skill and ability of the pilots, or the impressive hardware, they're bloody loud, use a lot of fuel for (imho) meagre entertainment, have been known to have tragic consequences, and scare the crap out of fish, birds, and animals of all kinds. I also don't get auto and power boat racing for much the same reasons. Maybe I should have been born in the dark ages...some things I cannot fathom.

Oh well...sigh.

Peace, Mooh.

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10 Oct 03 - 09:36 AM (#1033087)
Subject: RE: BS: Air Shows
From: GUEST,Santa

Misophist: Lucky you. Must be 30 years since I saw the Blue Angels, though I do get to see the Red Arrows three-four times a year so I'm not exactly suffering.

Mooh: I'm not sure what aspect of life hasn't had its tragic consequences - from my listening to folk music I suggest that love has a lot more to answer for than air shows. The position is ludicrous and the pleasure transitory....or is that standing on a flight line with a straining neck?

Think of it this way: the jet fighter is to today what the steam locomotive or the sailing ship was to our forebears. They don't seem to have the same quality of songs, I grant you that.

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10 Oct 03 - 09:46 AM (#1033092)
Subject: RE: BS: Air Shows
From: GUEST,MMario

Air shows are one of the things I would much rather see on TV or film then live

But a good drill team is sheer pleasure to watch

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10 Oct 03 - 10:23 AM (#1033112)
Subject: RE: BS: Air Shows
From: mack/misophist

GUEST Santa seems to have missed the point. Some years back there was an air show accident over a dense crowd in France and many people were killed. The classic case was when members of the Thunderbirds followed, one after another, into the side of a mountain. This is not without risks. It should not be permitted over densely populated areas. Imagine six of the Blue Angel's jets plowing into the Golden Gate Bridge or, more likely, the financial district or the Hilton Hotel. Do I make myself clear? Present practice is just plain irresponsible. And dangerous.

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10 Oct 03 - 11:05 AM (#1033136)
Subject: RE: BS: Air Shows
From: GUEST,Fossil

I was watching the RAF's Red Arrows display team one summer - many years ago now, back in the '80's - in Brighton. The climax of the display was a low-level high-speed pass right along the sea-front in front of the thousands of holidaymakers who were watching.

There are (or were, in those days) two piers in Brighton and between them, several yachts had moored to watch the show. One plane vaulted over the West Pier, hit the top of one of the yachts' masts, knocked part of his tailplane off, went into a steep climb, the pilot ejected and the plane went into the sea a few hundred yards past the Palace Pier, which was also crowded with people. The whole thing took a few seconds.

The spooky thing about it all was that a) there was very little press coverage about it afterwards and b) what there was, was concentrated on the heroism (!) of the pilot and the yachtsman who had up-anchored, motored over to where he was in the water and pulled him out. No journalist ever seemed to ask the question of what would've happened had the plane not cleared the pier, or had gone the other way and hit the town and/or the thousands of spectators. I well remember seeing the yacht that had been struck motoring back to the marina with the top part of its mast pointing forward. Having become a boat owner myself in the meantime, I know that the average mast of a thirty-footer would be about 15 metres (45 feet) high, so the plane must have been lower than that. 700 feet would've been fine.

No, I'm with MMario on this one - watch 'em on TV!

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10 Oct 03 - 11:23 AM (#1033154)
Subject: RE: BS: Air Shows
From: Grab

Misophist, I don't see why anyone in the US would practise over a town when there's so much damn land elsewhere. I agree with you, they shouldn't be doing it over built-up areas. Simply *flying* over built-up areas is not a valid worry though, given how many airports in the world involve approaches over urban areas (assuming the pilots *are* coming in to land and aren't playing silly buggers) and how vanishingly rare accidents are.

Graham.

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10 Oct 03 - 12:29 PM (#1033210)
Subject: RE: BS: Air Shows
From: mack/misophist

Fly overs are not a problem. We have two international airports in the immediate area. But the 747's and DC10's don't come low enough to see the pilot's profiles or for people in office buildings to look down at them. Nor do passenger pilots deliberately test the limits of their skill or of their aircraft. See my previous post above about accidents.

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