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29 Oct 03 - 12:26 AM (#1043589) Subject: Folklore: Devil's Night From: LadyJean Here in Western Pennsylvania, October 30th is Devil's Night. This is the night when young idiots go out and egg cars, spray shaving cream all over the place, trim trees with toilet paper, and smash pumpkins. Not nice, not to be encouraged, but harmless. I know in Detroit, they go beyond petty vandalism, and set fires. Definitely NOT harmless. Now, I'm wondering where else is Devil's Night celebrated, and how, and does anyone know the origins of the custom? |
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29 Oct 03 - 01:10 AM (#1043597) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: Malcolm Douglas Mischief Night is November 4th in most of the North of England, but may have shifted from Hallowe'en, where similar customs are observed in other regions and, I think, in Scotland. In the south-west it was Shrove Tuesday, in some other parts May Eve. Norfolk, in order to be different, observes it on Valentine's Eve or Day, and the pranks are blamed on "Jacky Valentine". |
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29 Oct 03 - 01:42 AM (#1043601) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: Cluin When I was a kid, we called it "Knick-Knocking Night" around here. We would go out and knock on doors or ring doorbells and run before the owners would answer. Then we'd hide and laugh at them when they'd look out. The ones who'd get really pissed off and yell at us would get hit again and again. It was sort of like counting coup. |
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29 Oct 03 - 01:57 AM (#1043605) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: The Fooles Troupe Cluin Did it ever occur to you that those some of who made the most fuss might just having been having fun - remembering the fun they had as kids? :-) Robin |
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29 Oct 03 - 01:56 PM (#1043953) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: Cluin ...not the guy who used to chase us around the block and once pulled out the salt gun (shotgun shell with the pellets removed and replaced with pickling salt) and fired a shot at us. Naturally he got the lion's share of our attention. |
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29 Oct 03 - 02:06 PM (#1043959) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: GUEST,MMario Never heard of 'Devil's Night' - nor any celebration on the 30th. Every place I've lived it's been "Halloween" and the 31st. |
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29 Oct 03 - 02:27 PM (#1043966) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: TheBigPinkLad In Durham, England, we used to get up to no good on 'Mischief Night' (Nov 4th, my birthday coincindentally) usually involving fire-crackers which were in good supply as the following day was Guy Fawkes. |
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29 Oct 03 - 02:51 PM (#1043980) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: Rapparee Never heard of "Devil's Night" until I lived in NE Ohio and they reported the Detroit news. I've never heard of it celebrated elsewhere, either, although there are a lot of odd things in Western PA and the Old Northwest. Could it have originated in Eastern Europe or the Balkans? |
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29 Oct 03 - 03:15 PM (#1044004) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: Hollowfox Nah, Repaire, I think it's recent, and of US origin. I never heard of it until vandals started ubrning large chunks of Detroit every year. BTW, Chase's Calendar of Annual Events lists it as a mischief night that has gone to extremes, but gives no country or time of origin. |
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29 Oct 03 - 03:24 PM (#1044012) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: WFDU - Ron Olesko For as long as I can remember we've called it Cabbage Night here in NJ. Many supermarkets here in NJ won't sell eggs and shaving cream on this night. My dad used to be a custodian at the local high school and every year he would be required to work on Cabbage Night as well as Halloween. The custodians would walk the perimeter of the school until midnight to make sure the school did not get egged. Of course somebody would show up in the middle of the night and throw a couple dozen eggs at the place. |
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29 Oct 03 - 03:45 PM (#1044015) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: Joe Offer I wonder how far back the custom of Devil's Night arson goes in Detroit. I have the impression it goes back half a century or more. I didn't know of it when I was a kid, but I left Detroit when I was nine (and my parents sheltered me from information like that until I got to high school). -Joe Offer- |
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29 Oct 03 - 06:03 PM (#1044104) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: masato sakurai Dialect Survey Results: 110. What do you call the night before Halloween? a. gate night (0.39%) b. trick night (0.33%) c. mischief night (10.84%) d. cabbage night (1.68%) e. goosy night (0.37%) f. devil's night (11.13%) g. devil's eve (0.78%) h. I have no word for this (70.38%) i. other (4.11%) (10640 respondents) |
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29 Oct 03 - 06:45 PM (#1044125) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: Susan of DT Ron - I have never heard of Cabbage Night and I am in central NJ, but since I have no children, I may be out of that loop. Halloween was always time for Trick or Treat (NY and NJ) - get into costume, ring doorbells and collect candy. If no candy, some would pull mild pranks, like the soap and toilet paper described. No name beyond Halloween. |
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15 Oct 05 - 01:10 AM (#1583505) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: GUEST, paisleypunk@hotmail.com im org. from Harrietta michigan and we never had it that i knew of till around 1976-1978 when the detroiters started to come settle up north in Michigan,but also then there was a surge of occult clubs at that time as well,other wise we throw our rotten eggs on holloween as well,it could also have sprung up with a new way to get by the cops:}we waxed windows back then too the good kids used soap ! |
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15 Oct 05 - 11:08 AM (#1583595) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: GUEST,*daylia* I'd never heard of 'Devil's Night' till about 8 years ago. One of my teenage sons told me about it after watching Brandon Lee's movie "The Crow" (Brandon Lee died making that movie). I laughed it off, put it down to "urban legend" and didn't think much of it all, till I spent some time alone out west in 2001. It was evening on Oct 30, a dreary windy rainy day in Deep Bay, on Vancouver Island. I was feeling claustrophic, having been stuck in my little motel room all day long. During a break in the rain, I'd talked myself into going for a walk - even though I was new to the area and didn't know it well at all, dark was falling, the wind was still just a-howlin' in over the ocean, and my son's stories about "Devil's Night" were swirling round my brain.... All went well till I got about quarter mile away from the resort - then suddenly, the air was split with this god-awful death scream. Sounded like it was coming from the bush about 10 feet away, like some hapless creature was being dismembered live! Well, the ole ticker just about went on overload! There were no streetlights on that road and I could barely see a darn thing, but I turned myself around and somehow managed to make it back to my room in about 2 minutes flat. Told a couple locals about it the next day. No-one else had heard it, or offered an explanation. But I felt a bit better when I found out a few weeks later that cougars are quite common in that area, coming down from the mountains at night to feed on people's pets. So maybe I'd heard a cat becoming some cougar's late-night snack. Or ... maybe it WAS the Devil trying to give me a heart attack! Didn't see much difference between the two at the time though, and it sure put an end to my solitary late-night wanderings through that little fishing village. "Devil's Night" or no "Devil's Night"! |
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15 Oct 05 - 11:28 AM (#1583605) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: mack/misophist Sounds like Walpurgisnacht. Disney did a nice animation of it in Fastasia. |
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16 Oct 05 - 09:20 AM (#1584049) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: GUEST,Dave'sWife sans COokie My Husband, who is from NJ states they called it Mischief Night and confirms that eggs and shaving cream were not sold that day or sometimes the day before as well. They did it on Oct 30th. I grew up in New York where that kind of thing was severely frowned upon. In fact, my local school district claimed Oct. 30th for safe trick or treating for smaller children and hosted a Costume contest for grade-schoolers. This went on through the early 1970s. Opprtunistic kids from the district then went and visited cousins and friends in other districts for oct 31st so they could squeeze in a second night of trick or treating. My parents would never let us do that. |
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16 Oct 05 - 09:28 AM (#1584054) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: GUEST,Dave'sWife sans cookie Here's a good little bit from the Net about Devil's night: >>particular day of the year, but that the vast majority (70.38%) have no special word for it. The night before Halloween, known in some areas as "Mischief Night", "Gate Night", "Cabbage Night", "Goosie Night (Goosy,Goosey)" or "Devil's Night," is often associated with pranks or destructive activities performed by adolescents. Some of the acts range from minor vandalism to theft, or even arson. Many youths involved in mischief night would be considered too old for traditional trick-or-treating. The most common wrong-doing is toilet papering or "T.P.ing", in which people's houses, lawns, and trees are covered in toilet paper streamers. Perhaps the most elaborate example of a Mischief Night prank was Orson Welles' radio dramatization of The War of the Worlds, originally aired on October 30, 1938. Welles' broadcast, which purported to be a live newscast detailing the invasion of the United States by Martians, was accepted as real by many listeners and created a public panic in some areas of the country. A dialect survey begun in 1999 by Harvard University indicates that there are a number of terms for this "Mischief Night"<<< |
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16 Oct 05 - 09:49 AM (#1584067) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: GUEST,Dave'sWife sans cookie And finally... I think found the best source for anyone interested in this: "Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Detroit's Devil's Night but Were Afraid to Ask" DeCoster, Karen Click HERE for Article |
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16 Oct 05 - 10:17 PM (#1584367) Subject: Devil's Night and Detroit From: OtherDave I grew up on the northwest side of Detroit in the 50s and 60s. At that time, Devil's Night was October 30th, and we kids understood it as the night to go out and do the mischief that "trick or treat" supposedly threatened. In other words, you could ring doorbells, egg houses, soap car windows (or, if you were mean, wax them with candle wax -- much harder to clean off), and play other pranks on the 30th, then go out the next night to get your loot. Since in my mainly blue-collar neighborhood putting wax on windows was seen as extreme, you can figure that the burning of houses, chronicled by Zev Chafets in Devil's Night and Other True Tales of Detroit, was unknown at that time. I believe this sort of criminality tracked with the overall collapse of Detroit, which once had the largest proportion of single-family homes of any major U.S. city. You can conveniently fix the beginning of the fall with the riot of 1967. I don't remember many kids yelling "trick or treat," by the way. In my neighborhood, the cry was "help the poor!" (Sometimes expanded to "Help the poor / my pants are torn / gimme some money / and I'll buy some more." |
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17 Oct 05 - 08:44 AM (#1584562) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: Snuffy Mischief Night was always November 4th (the night before Bonfire Night) in NW England in the fifties. Halloween didn't show up on our radar at all then. But the idea was the same. |
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17 Oct 05 - 01:50 PM (#1584747) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: GUEST,DannyC In 1950s & '60s Philly it was Mischief Night. My buddies and I were enthusiastic participants. Some of the leaders seemed have an agenda regarding various grumps and cheapskates in the neighborhood. We'd deliver our paybacks and feel the rush of a dark thrill made all the better when the victims could be coaxed into a chase. |
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30 Oct 05 - 11:29 PM (#1594006) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: GUEST,the bug I'm 30 years old and grew up here in northern NJ and ive called Oct 30th Goosy night ever since I learned of it back when I was 5 years old. At around the age of 10 I remember having to stock up on eggs a few days before Oct 30th otherwise the stores would not sell them to me. Ahhh, the good ol'days. |
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31 Oct 05 - 09:03 AM (#1594153) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: GUEST,maryrrf at work Growing up in Virginia I'd never heard of this (we did play pranks on Halloween to those who weren't generous with the "treats" or who gave us healthy items like apples when we wanted candy). But in Palisades Park, New Jersey where we lived during the mid eighties/early nineties my kids discovered the local custom of Cabbage Night. I came home from work one evening and about a block from the house I caught them trying to sneak home with several cartons of eggs that they'd gotten from a local store (some refused to sell eggs to kids at that time, others were more than happy to oblige). Of course the eggs were promptly confiscated but there WAS a lot of minor mischief perpetrated in the town on Oct 30th - soap on car windows, toilet papering, etc. |
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11 Sep 06 - 11:31 AM (#1831876) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: GUEST,jess i am from nj and we have mischief night and people go around doing mild pranks. by a neighboring town does trick or treating the day before because they have a parade on the 31st. so most kids skip mischief night and get candy 2 nights in a row |
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29 Oct 06 - 04:37 PM (#1871605) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: GUEST,jr in north New Jersey we call it goosy night. Everyone does it in are town except the nerds and old people. But we thow eggs, dog crap on there front porch, shaving cream, tolite paper, and other stuff. |
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29 Oct 06 - 04:47 PM (#1871614) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: oggie As a kid in Lincolnshire Mischief Night was November 4th and Halloween (All Souls Night) was the night that the dead walked and you didn't go out. It certainly wasn't the commercial fiesta it seems to have become. The important part of Mischief Night was that it wasn't of the 'Trick or Treat' variety, the mischief (minor) got done without resort to blackmail. All the best oggie |
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29 Oct 06 - 04:54 PM (#1871617) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: Richard Bridge Let the dogs out |
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30 Oct 07 - 09:09 AM (#2182578) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: GUEST,shaylynne. okay so I've never heard of Devils Night or W/e. But me and my friends celebrate Cabbage Night. :] It's very fun. And it's when you go out and egg peoples houses or spray paint ppl's cars or w/e. You know like harmless little pranks. It's quite fun if you ask me. But like you don't wanna get caught otherwise your screwed. The cops will be called and that's when you wanna start runnin' and hidin'. :]] |
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30 Oct 07 - 09:55 AM (#2182612) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: topical tom Here in Quebec (Canada) this is called Mat Night but I do not know the significance of the name. Perhaps on occasions the welcome mat was stolen? It is rarely celebrated here.Many people have likely never heard of the term. Is it more common in the other provinces? |
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30 Oct 07 - 11:46 AM (#2182662) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: PoppaGator Growing up in Central New Jersey (Plainfield) in the 50s, I heard occasional talk about Mischief Night as the night before Halloween, but never knew anyone who actually participated. Some kid once told me about an elaborate system of a whole week's worth of differently-named pre-Halloween nights dedicated to various categories of troublemaking. Maybe the kid had moved to our town from from some area where they had such highly-refined and well-organized vandalism, or maybe he just made it up himself. I also remember hearing the term Devil's Night, but never heard of either "Cabbage Night" or "Goosy Night" before reading those terms here today as North Jersey traditions. New Jersey is so densely populated that towns no more than 10-20 miles apart can have entirely separate cultures... |
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30 Oct 07 - 12:55 PM (#2182715) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: Jack Blandiver When I was a kid (South-East Northumberland circa 1967-74) soon as the clocks went back to GMT it seemed every night was mischief night, terrorising the neighbourhood in fine old style with no regard for anything but our own amusement. |
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01 Nov 07 - 02:52 PM (#2184436) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: GUEST,Big D I grew up in North Jersey and called it Goosey night. It was so well accepted in our community that my mom would actually go to the store for eggs and toilet paper (had to stock up a few night before) and would lay out my black clothes for me. My neighbors regularly toilet papered our house, much to the amusement of my father, and then would help clean it up a few days later. If the cops caught you and you had a backpack they would make you take it off and step on it with the idea being if you had eggs in there it would ruin the inside of it. This thread brings back a ton of great memories of running around and hiding in big piles of leaves that line NJ streets in the Fall. I live in Colorado now and nobody in my office has ever heard of it so it must be an east coast-mid west thing. |
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16 Jun 08 - 05:50 PM (#2367346) Subject: RE: Folklore: Devil's Night From: GUEST,xz I lived my whole life in and around detroit during some of the worst times for devils night some of the fires were set by local neighbors to rid the area of crack houses and vacant buildings that the city would do nothing about due to lack of funds. the city would glow with fire detroit would have several other citys fire departments on standby to help put out fires. |