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29 Oct 03 - 06:31 PM (#1044118) Subject: Tory leadership From: GUEST The man of the night? Surely not? |
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29 Oct 03 - 06:53 PM (#1044133) Subject: RE: Tory leadership From: McGrath of Harlow Next leader: I ain't Duncan-Smith. Their problem is that the person best equipped to lead the Tory Party is already leading the Labour Party. |
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30 Oct 03 - 02:22 AM (#1044340) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: The Shambles Tory leadership = oxymoron. |
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30 Oct 03 - 02:36 AM (#1044341) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: GUEST,Boab B.S.---SURELY? I suppose we COULD write a song about it------ |
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30 Oct 03 - 03:14 AM (#1044345) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: GUEST,Tory's Yuk !!!!! John Prescott would bring some punch to the job.Since he socked that farmer he has time on his hands ha ha. TY.. |
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30 Oct 03 - 06:07 AM (#1044382) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: harvey andrews The man of the night will lead us Back to the cold dark cell Where the mad eyed maid is waiting To put us in chains as well. Remember the snail so slimy In the cabinet of the fools? At the thought of returning backwards The man of the night, he drools. |
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30 Oct 03 - 06:49 AM (#1044391) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: Mrs.Duck The Tory party is so full of BS it is definitely where this thread should be! But as McGratgh says with a Tory in charge of the Labour party what difference will it make? |
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30 Oct 03 - 07:17 AM (#1044398) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: Linda Kelly sorry guys comparing Tony to Michael is way out of order, the passing of time dulls the ache and hatred of Toryism -have to dig out my Les Barker -brilliant poem to the tune of Strangers in the night about Mr Howard called Something of the Night. What will anne Widdecombe do now? |
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30 Oct 03 - 07:32 AM (#1044408) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: Willie-O Interesting when a decade--less, actually, isn't it?--has passed since the Tories were your invincible masters...now from my perspective in Canada, I have no idea who any of those people you're talking about are. Same thing happened to our Canadian Tories, since they got dethroned in '93--reduced from a majority government to TWO seats. They have just decided to fold their current tent and shack up with the even more right-wing Canadian Alliance, under the banner of the Conservative Party of Canada--dropping the "Progressive" prefix. This will set them up, it seems, as the perpetual grumpy rightwing opposition, and they certainly lack any prospects for a charismatic or even impressively competent leader. Sound familiar at all? |
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30 Oct 03 - 09:20 AM (#1044481) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: Arnie Michael Howard is the MP for the constituency next to where I live and that is too close for comfort. He was a disaster as Home Sec - I worked in the Home Office and remember his disastrous time in office all too well. I suppose the only comforting thought is that the Tories are only re-arrranging the deckchairs on the deck of the Titanic. Labour may not be perfect but they will trounce the Tories again at the next election. The Tories had 18yrs of power and look what they did for Britain in that time - remember Harry Enfield's 'Loadsamoney' - he was definitely a child of Maggie's time. Remember when Kent used to have coalfields, providing employment and pride for many village communities? Selling off the nation's jewels in the guise of privatisation merely created lucrative directorships for the Tories and their pals to take up once they were booted out of office. Only now are Labour taking steps to get the Great Railway Disaster sorted out by taking direct control of the tracks. The Tories cost this country an absolute fortune simply to hammer the unions and feather their own nests. There, now I've got that off my chest! |
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30 Oct 03 - 09:25 AM (#1044486) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: ard mhacha Perfectly summed up by Harvey Andrews. Could that "mad-eyed maid" be Ann Widdicombe alias Doris Karloff, I seen her on TV yesterday and she must have had finger pointing lessons from Alistair Campbell. Ard Mhacha. |
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30 Oct 03 - 09:45 AM (#1044504) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: John Routledge Wrong lady Ard :0) Anne Widdicombe has at least a measure of humanity somewhat lacking in the the other lady. Wonderful summary Harvey. |
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30 Oct 03 - 09:50 AM (#1044505) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: The Barden of England Anne Widdicombe is my MP in Maidstone so when old Doris had a go at her fellow Kent MP I laughed - she knows something we don't maybe. I have a mug at home bought for me during Maggie's time in office when I went through 5 redundancies which say's "I'm having one of those decades". Do I want them back - NEVER! Tonie's cronies may be a lying, coniving bunch of b***ards but Tories they ain't. The trouble we have with the railways, the hospitals, the police and the whole damn things goes back to underinvestment during 18 years of Tory rule. All the money went to those with money with the tax breaks etc. and is what our friends in America are going through now with 'dubya'. |
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30 Oct 03 - 09:52 AM (#1044507) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: McGrath of Harlow A vampire as leader is very appropriate for the party of the un-dead. Jabberwocky..." |
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30 Oct 03 - 10:02 AM (#1044513) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: VIN Yes may they never return!!. I always thought of this chorus when 'she who shall not be named' was in power. You tyrants of England, your race may soon be run, You may be brought unto account for what you've sorely done. |
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30 Oct 03 - 10:15 AM (#1044525) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: DMcG The voting method for the new leader is supposedly 'democratic' in that the ordinary party member votes. So the attempt to make it a choice of one is about as cynical as you can get. Matthew Parris (ex Tory MP, now journalist for the Times) said, on Newsnight, BBC2 last night "I don't worry about the grass roots: they will do as they are told." I am not member of the Tory party, but I would be heartily offended by that attitude if I were. |
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30 Oct 03 - 10:53 AM (#1044554) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: GUEST,Tory's Yuk !!!!! Micheal Howerd prince of darkness. that man is just so leary. So wierd.So spooky It looks like he has possesed the soul of Anne Widdecombe Blimey this is turning into some sort of cockeyed poem. Politicians you soulless bunch of shites. Who would vote for any of the toe rags. I certainly wont be any more. |
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30 Oct 03 - 11:08 AM (#1044573) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: Liz the Squeak But it's too late - he's unopposed.... guess who the next leader of the Tory Party is going to be.... All Hallows' Eve is the right time of year for that announcement. LTS |
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30 Oct 03 - 11:15 AM (#1044580) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: McGrath of Harlow Steve Bell's cartoon comment on this says it all - "The Dream Ticket" |
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30 Oct 03 - 11:54 AM (#1044620) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: Gareth Dammn ! All that work on the internet by myself and other party hacks in the past week, trying to boost the impresion that IDS was GOD to the Tory Grass roots - WASTED !!!!!! Gareth |
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30 Oct 03 - 12:41 PM (#1044661) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: McGrath of Harlow Here's a current thread that seems appropriate in the circunstances - vampires real or not |
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30 Oct 03 - 01:15 PM (#1044680) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: fantum All the posts above may be right but it was the labour party who introduced PEL. They may yet prove more damaging to English folk culture than the first world war. |
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30 Oct 03 - 01:49 PM (#1044702) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: GUEST With all due respect, fantum, you're talking utter crap. |
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30 Oct 03 - 02:11 PM (#1044719) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: McGrath of Harlow I suppose Portillo is intending to keep his powder dry until after this one is chucked out when they lose the next election. What's frightening though is to remember the old saying about how "Oppositions don't win elections, Governments lose them". Tony Blair seems to be doing his level best to put people off voting Labour. They won't vote Tory, but they could well stay home. It's genuinely scarey... Time to start talking about "stakeholding" once again, Tony! Only mean it this time. I'm glad to hear that the BBC is planning to bring back Dr Who. We could be needing his help. |
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30 Oct 03 - 02:22 PM (#1044725) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: Gareth And now - a competition Warning !!! - This is for those with a strong stomach only This is the Website of the "Tory Grass roots" support IDS movement. "Click 'Ere" Some of us have had good fun in the few days that it was running, posting messages of support. - The ground rules were simple - You could not claim to be a member/supporter of the Tory Party, or impersonate one, after all we were trying to keep this honest. Multiple postings counted, (after all if they were incapable of spotting it) If you have a strong enough stomach browse through the pages and see how many false messages you can spot. Sorry I did not want to open the postings to all Catters as the manipulation might have leaked !! Gareth - Grinning like a cheshire cat ! |
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30 Oct 03 - 03:25 PM (#1044746) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: Peter K (Fionn) McG, it's wishful to think Blair is better in any sense than Howard. Howard will wipe the floor with him at PMQs, though I realise it won't do him any good. Even Hague did that, but politics has become a minority interest and people are past caring. My guess is that the Tories will be massively rejuventated by this bloodless coup. I hope so, because it's time someone - anyone - put a bomb under New Labour and made politics entertaining again. |
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30 Oct 03 - 04:15 PM (#1044765) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: GUEST,Boab Those who point to the right-wing politics of Blair [and co.]are staring at the obvious. The problem is that love is blind---and for many the simple label "labour' is enough to blind them to reality.They should contemplate the word "new", and consider just what that weasel word meant, and what it still means. I think the almost complete lack of eldritch screeching from the nameless witch's domain over the past years should tell the naive millions SOMETHING! The lady is quite simply signalling her tacit approval of Tony and his machinations. It is a sad fact, and historically proven, that if a society enters a spell of prosperity which affects [even though unequally] the perceived wellbeing of every layer of that society, then right wing views begin to prevail. It is perfectly true to say that we're all human, and will try to perpetuate that which seems to have been of benefit to ourselves as individuals. Blair and co. came to power on the rising crest of a Global wave of economic prosperity. The weird--but all too common--- result was that the claims they made for credit were too easily believable. Now , things have got to some degree out of hand [rising unemployment, war, disguised public service cuts, etc., ]and Tony's mob are losing much of their charisma. As has been--again--historically always the case, left-wing political views are emerging to restore some balance to the seesaw. What we can hope for is that right-wing policies be drastically modified before the only "cure" is assumed to be the policies of the extreme left. It has happened before in the UK. It is happening NOW in Colombia, Zimbabwe, and increasingly in Russia. It would be nice if we could have a level seesaw! |
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30 Oct 03 - 04:21 PM (#1044772) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: alanabit I am not so fussed about it being entertaining Fionn. I just do not want to see another Conservative government. I certainly do not want to see a government more conservative than the one Britain has at the moment. I have long held the opinion that some of the countries with the dullest politics maintain the highest living standards. I mean countries like Switzerland and Sweden. You can very rarely choose something you really like at an election. It usually comes down to picking the lesser of two evils. I think that is what the current government is. |
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30 Oct 03 - 04:36 PM (#1044785) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: Gareth As Boab says - in 1979 the UK went down that road, and the result was not pleasent. It took years of effort by Neil Kinnock, an underated leader if ever there was, to restore some sanity to the Labour Party. Yes there are somethings I don't like about Tony's Government, but when you compare this with the alternative you will understand why I am an actavist - And no I'am not one to flog my concience around the meeting halls trying to get myself into Parliament. And when I look at what has been achieved, unspectacular, but constant improvements in the UK's standard ogf living then I take umbrage at those, who with thier constant sneers, threaten this. And as the McGrath will vouch, since he accidently found himself included in an E-Mail distribution list. New Labour and T Blair are not pushed very hard in South Wales. Gareth |
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30 Oct 03 - 05:11 PM (#1044807) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: McGrath of Harlow I don't give a sod whether Blair is worse than Howard or the other way round. I care a lot that we will never again have a government like that of Margaret Thatcher in my lifetime. When this Government does get kicked out, I want it to be replaced by something that is broadly more to the left of it. There's just not enough room to the right, without falling into the kind of sick extremist nonsense that's on display across the Atlantic. There's masses of room. There've been Tory Governments that were to the left of this one. Europe's currently got a few you could describe in those terms. Maybe, once they've been taken to the cleaners a few more times, the Tory Party will reposition itself so that it is back in that part of the political spectrum. |
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30 Oct 03 - 05:56 PM (#1044830) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: Peter K (Fionn) McG, you've got a government like Thatcher's , or didn't you notice? I'd have thought Blair's pre ('97) election tryst with Murdoch to get the Sun on board, and making Thatcher his first guest at No 10, were pretty strong signals by any reckoning. Sticking to the Tory spending program (which the outgoing chancellor Ken Clark admitted even the the Tories would not have done); presiding over an ever-widening gap between rich and poor (the corollary of which is spectacular growth in the prison population - and how wasteful is that?), and the insistance on regressive taxation (ie taxing spending rather than income) are surely conclusive. Blair has sussed that if he keeps 35-40 per cent of the voting public feeling good, he's safe, and sod the rest. The man has not an ounce of social conscience in him. My guess is that he chose Labour, and stuck with it through the SDP fracture, for much the same reason Hitler chose the National Socialists. The party machine was in a state of collapse. Membership records were in such chaos that a crook like Maxwell could blithely lie that he'd been a member for years, and thereby become a Labour MP. Labour was wide open to manipulation by anyone of self-serving bent, and Blair exploited that weakness to the hilt. alanabit, regardless of whether you like your politics to be entertaining, democracy would be better served if politics reached just a few of the millions who have given up playing any part in it. People can hardly be blamed for scorning their entitlement to vote when the only issue is which party would make better managers of our conservative, unmixed, divisive economy. |
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30 Oct 03 - 06:05 PM (#1044838) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: akenaton McGrath...It seems to me that we are now all part of an economic system in terminal decline,and I think politician of all persuasions are only too well aware of it. Terms like "left" "right" "tory" "labour", have become meaningless as the politicians struggle to retain some shred of credibility in the ever deepening morass that is UK politics today. The only people who sincerely believe in a political solution are the utopian socialists,Tommy Sheridan et all, who provide a sad and deluded spectacle. The antics of the Tories over the last few days,should have made it clear to everybody, just how cynical these people really are. Of course, the public will be fooled once again into believing that it matters who resides in 10 Downing St,and we shall stagger on to the inevitable end. I suppose were all sheep, and sheep end up at the butchers...Ake |
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30 Oct 03 - 06:32 PM (#1044866) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: alanabit I would say it is a government to the left of Thatcher and well to the right of Ted Heath's. It may be pretty galling for a socialist, Fionn, but I really can imagine things being a lot worse. A lot of the civil rights which have been lost (protection from security service abuse, the right not to register your address etc) may well have gone forever, but I really shudder to think what further rights will go when the next Tory government takes power. I should not really be in this debate, as I don't live in your country any more. However, if I was, I would see the best prospect of change as that of entering the Labour Party and trying to change that from the inside. It can be done. It is not so long ago that the prospect of another Labour government looked most unlikely. The only other realistic alternative to the current regime is a very right wing Tory government. A lot of people who want to pull the plug on this lot are the same ones who deserted Jim Callaghan in 1979. Look where that got us! |
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30 Oct 03 - 06:57 PM (#1044884) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: Gareth Labour was wide open to manipulation by anyone of self-serving bent, and Blair exploited that weakness to the hilt. Self confession - Fionn ???? Oh by the way, as you "alledge" that you were a former party official in Buckingham - What role did you have in the Robert Maxwell selection ?? Gareth |
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30 Oct 03 - 07:02 PM (#1044893) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: harvey andrews Two major banks have recently sacked British workforces and moved the jobs to India. What can any govt do against this? Surely politics is now a sideshow and business rules the world. It's business we should be attacking. How is it that in Canada a coffee costs 60p and a tea 45p, profits are made and workers are paid from this. Yet in a Brit motorway service station it's £1.99 and £1.50? Our battle now should be against these ridiculous profits and these companies that are running our lives. The whole Tory mess is such a ridiculously overblown and meaningless charade. Fat cats are 70% better off in two years while the workforce struggles on the basic wage. What party is going to do anything about such inequality? |
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30 Oct 03 - 07:10 PM (#1044900) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: Gareth Harvey - Don't ever accuse 'Motorway' service staff of being overpaid. Minimum wage job !! - Starbucks F**k's. Gareth |
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30 Oct 03 - 07:19 PM (#1044906) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: akenaton As a footnote to my last post ,Ihave just heard that Dianne Abbott,the "left wing ""MP has enrolled her son in a £10000 per year Public School.This breathtaking piece of cynicism,illustrates how meaningless the "tory" "Socialist" tags are.The rats know the ship is sinking,but they have no intention of going down with it...Ake |
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30 Oct 03 - 07:25 PM (#1044908) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: harvey andrews Gareth, sorry I was inarticulate...I meant the fat cats were the bosses, in this case Days Hotels services and the underpaid workforce were serving me the £1.50 teabag in hot water. |
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30 Oct 03 - 07:51 PM (#1044924) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: McGrath of Harlow "a government to the left of Thatcher and well to the right of Ted Heath's" Exactly. The difference that still exists between the Tory and Labour Party is that the membership of the Tory party out in the country tend actually to be further to the right, and more authoritarian than the people who control the party machine; and in the case of Labour it's the other way round - the people who control the party machine are further to the right and more authoritarian than the membership. |
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30 Oct 03 - 08:43 PM (#1044952) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: Gareth Harvey - No appology from you was neccessary. I have no illusions. Kevin - Please don't accuse me of being to the left of Tony Blair, or less authoritarian then St Annes Gate. I would not have expelled George Galloway, I would have handed him over to the people of Iraq. He would have got a suspended sentance, if he was lucky by the neck. Gareth |
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30 Oct 03 - 09:04 PM (#1044967) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: McGrath of Harlow Would I do that Gareth? Even if I thought it was probably true? (Hell, Michael Portillo is probably to the left of Tony Blair.) |
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31 Oct 03 - 05:24 AM (#1045147) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: alanabit Now Kevin. I think you are overstating your case there. Never forget the pleasure it gave us all to watch him losing his seat in 1997! |
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31 Oct 03 - 06:22 AM (#1045161) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: ard mhacha I have to agree with Fionn, Blair won`t be looking forward to debating with Howard, as you say Hague wiped the floor with Tony. Blair come across as bitchy momma`s boy, all smarmy smiles and as about as sincere as an Insurance Agent. Ard Mhacha. |
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31 Oct 03 - 08:23 AM (#1045203) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: Grab Question: why do we care? It's not like anyone's going to vote for them, whoever they have as leader. I suppose if they got Arnie as leader then maybe that'd do it, but I can't see anything less working. The Tories are as unelectable now as Labour were in the 80s. The Lib Dems are the only realistic opposition party these days. Graham. PS. Harvey, it's the "captive market" syndrome - for a more realistic comparison, check against the price of a coffee in McD's at a rest stop. And if you're not fool enough to buy it, then the price goes down. |
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31 Oct 03 - 09:26 AM (#1045241) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: Cllr I thinks its great we have Michael Howard, roll on the next election. Cllr |
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31 Oct 03 - 11:18 AM (#1045304) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: Peter K (Fionn) Sorry, Gareth - don't remember ever alleging (or "alledging") that I was a party official in Buckingham. If I did, I was wrong: I was not. |
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31 Oct 03 - 02:14 PM (#1045423) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: McGrath of Harlow I think it's great you've got him too, Cllr... So what if Howard does walk all over Tony Blair in Parliamentary Question Time? That doesn't really matter a sausage. What matters is that he's likely to give a lot of people nightmares that could push them into going out and voting to stop him. With luck, particularly in his own constituency, where he's got a vulnerable majority - if Labour voters had voted tactically last time he'd have been out. This time, with a lot of Labour voters feeling generally pretty pissed off with the Government anyway, the chances of Howard going down under the Lib Dem should be a lot stronger. |
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31 Oct 03 - 02:25 PM (#1045430) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: DMcG As a matter of interest, what is the position if the leader of the party doesn't win his seat? Cllr - have you a view on Matthew Parris' admittedly off-the-cuff remark about giving the ordinary members no choice of who is leader? (see above if need be.) |
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31 Oct 03 - 03:30 PM (#1045463) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: Gareth DMcG Happened once, to Ramsey MacDonald at Seaham Harbour, nr Durham in 1936 - Manny Shinwell put him out. Ramsey Mac was technically leader of National Labour at that time. He was found a nice safe Conservative seat at a bye election shortly after, but was a broken man and died within a couple of years. Gareth |
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31 Oct 03 - 04:00 PM (#1045473) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: McGrath of Harlow Mind you safe seats can come unstuck in such circumstances. It's happened several times that Ministers who have lost their seats have been put up as many as two more times in "safe" seats and been beaten. Voters tend not to like that kind of thing - voting for a candidate and having him or her promptly resign. They don't like being taken for granted I think in the aftermath of an election in which his partyu had won, and he personally had been guven the boot, the chances of Howard being defeated yet again in a "safe seat" would probably be pretty strong... In which case they could always try sticking him in the House of Lords - the technical position is that the Prime Minister is whoever is called along to curtsy to the Queen, in the expectation that they can form a Government which can get things passed in the House of Commons. They don't have to be in the Commons. I'm not even certain they have to be in Parliament at all, at least in theory... Perhaps they could call him Lord Protector or something. |
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31 Oct 03 - 05:12 PM (#1045498) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: ard mhacha McGrath you get no marks for pointing out the obvious, We all know it makes no difference if Blair comes across as a big girls blouse, so what the hell use is the whore of Parliments,just a slobbering shop. Ard Mhacha. |
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31 Oct 03 - 05:19 PM (#1045504) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: Gareth Bit late tonight to look it up, and check the exact facts but there is a precedent for this. Patrick Gordan-Walker (??) lost his seat in Smethick (??) 1964 he was made a Minister, but there is a time limit on how long a Minister can act wihout a seat in one of the two houses of Parliament, P Gorden-Walker was put up as a candidate for Leyton or Leytonstone in East London, and lost that too. I think you will find that Alex Douglas-Hume resigned his peerage and was made Prime Minister (In thoses days the queen was "advised" to send for the chosen Party Leader) befoe he was elected for one of the Northern Scotish seats in 1963. On a more specific point, my personal judgement is that Howard has been chosen to do a holding job untill after the General Election in 2005/6, and thence in the aftermath of that defeat then Portillo, Davis and others will fight it out. Mind you I could be wrong. Certainly there is a Labour Vote to be squeezed in the Folkstone Constituency of Howards, and if a deal was done between, say Canterbury, where there is a substantial Liberal vote to be squeezed thhe reesulting election could be "interesting". Expected boundary changes in Kent might confuse the issue 'Catter "anoraks" are invited to Click 'Ere where the facts and figures are stored, and all reasonable answers can be found. Scroll down untill you find the election figures you need. Gareth |
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31 Oct 03 - 05:52 PM (#1045521) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: McGrath of Harlow And it happened nearly a hundred years ago as well - involving a mate of Lloyd George called Charles Masterman, who'd been made a Minister in the Liberal Government (and had promptly done a shuffle to the right, as they do - voted against a Labour introduced Right to Work Bill that he had previously voted in favour of). Anyway, he failed to get elected in the 1910 General Election. He was promptly put up in safe seats for by-elections, and after being defeated both times had to resign as Minister. One factor in his defeat was said to be a song: God rest you merry gentlemen; let nothing you dismay. I fear that Mr Masterman will never go away. He's lost his seat in Parliament, but draws his weekly pay, Oh, tidings of comfort and joy. I thought I'd stick that in, in case it comes in useful in future contingencies. |
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31 Oct 03 - 07:04 PM (#1045549) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: Gareth Kevin - Noted and filed !!!!!! Gareth **** BG ***** |
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31 Oct 03 - 07:09 PM (#1045553) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: Peter K (Fionn) Whether Howard has been put in as a caretaker isn't really the point. He will restore authority to the office of Leader of the Opposition, which has been notably lacking since John Smith died. And that means he would be very hard to shift, even if the Tories wanted to try. He'll lead the Tories for as long as he likes. Portillo may be around long enough to inherit the leadership, but the loathesomely ambitious David Davies has missed the boat, thank God. I agree entirely about PMQs, McG (Prime Minister's Questions, rather than Parliamentary Question Time, by the way). The reason the Labour Party is taking this regime change seriously - and if you hadn't noticed, it is - is because Howard has the potential to tear Blair apart on other fronts. Most obviously Iraq, where Howard (unlike IDS) will have no problem supporting the war at the same as humiliating Blair over the deceits he used to get us into that war. Expect the parliamentary Labour Party to become a litle less biddable, too. Many of its members now know they will be out at the nextelection. Gareth, are you going to enlarge on that point about Buckingham? |
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31 Oct 03 - 07:25 PM (#1045555) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: Gareth Fionn - Yes ! - Read your back posts. What was your position on his selection ? - This you have not answered ? Oh and by the way you still have not answered my question as to your source of saying that Labou wanted a low turn out at the Brent East bye election. Could it be you can not ?? Incidently I am intreaged (SP) "Most obviously Iraq, where Howard (unlike IDS) will have no problem supporting the war at the same as humiliating Blair over the deceits he used to get us into that war." How ?? Is this yet another of your assertations with out any back up. Still it will look good on your political and journalistic CV "A supporter of Micheal Howard". Gareth |
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01 Nov 03 - 08:24 AM (#1045746) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: Fiolar Isn't Howard the chap who forecast that millions would be out of work if Labour introduced the mininimum wage? Strike one. And how about the time Jeremy Paxman asked him the same question on Newsnight 14 times without getting a straight answer. Strike two. I suppose folk get the leader they deserve. |
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01 Nov 03 - 11:03 AM (#1045805) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: McGrath of Harlow If the (official) Tories go down to an even worse defeat next time, Howard will be for the chop the next day, even if he manages to hold on to his own seat. And the paradoxical thing is that disillusion with Labour could well hit the Tories badly, since it would make it much more likely that former Labour voters will vote tactically, and switch to the Lib Dems in seats where they are the challenger, of which there are quite a lot, including Howard's. Given the vagaries of the electoral system it would be quite possible for the Tories to get a higher proportion of the vote overall and win fewer seats. And, no, you don't quite agree with me about Prime Minister's Questions, Fionn. My main contention is that, win or lose, this doesn't really matter a straw when it comes to determining how people vote and whether they vote, out in the real world. It's really primarily about impressing other MPs - which of course is important in its way, as poor old Iain found out this week. How Howard comes across next time he's up against Jeremy Paxman on TV is probably a lot more significant than how he comes across up when he's up against Tony Blair. |
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01 Nov 03 - 01:35 PM (#1045864) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: Gareth More people watch Paxman, that Prime Ministers Questions. but Kevin, please remember that Fionn has been grovelling to the left for years, trying to crawl into Parliament. No wonder he is bitter. Perhaps he should recognise his linitations Gareth |
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01 Nov 03 - 04:03 PM (#1045936) Subject: RE: BS: Tory leadership From: Don(Wyziwyg)T I believe that there may be compelling grounds for a new law prohibiting the use of the words "Tory", and "leadership" in the same sentence. As for Mistress Widdicombe, the true measure of her "humanity" is the response she gave to a visually challenged constituent, when asked if the Tory manifesto could not be supplied in braille, or on audio cassette. She replied "I suppose so, but think of the cost involved for so few people". The only good thing about this was that it definitely cost her one vote. Humanity? I think not! |