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03 Nov 03 - 10:09 AM (#1046787) Subject: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: JedMarum This is the second time in recent years that something like this has happened to me. I am sure that there are more incidents to come - but I am equally sure that some of you Mudcatters have similar stories to share. I played a festival this weekend, and introduced a song I wrote with a bit of background. The song is called, "WINDS WILL" and was written for my friend Billy Dunlop who sailed the Atlantic solo, in a nine foot sail boat. He told a television interviewer that he left Portland Maine a Scotsman and arrived in Falmouth England a Mexican because he lived on canned chili for 76 days. I commented "I guess that's what Billy think real Mexian folks eat," poking a bit of fun at my friend's ignorance. Well a letter of complaint reached the desk of the festival's president before I even got home! Someone misunderstood my comment and thought I was casually dismissing the eating habits of Mexicans! I believe it was an honest mistake on their part (but I realize it's possible someone purposely twisted the comment to create an issue) - but then I wondered how many times does it happen that I tell a story and someone in the audience gets it wrong? Or maybe since I've told the story a hundred times before, did I leave out parts of the story and not say what I think I said? In this case, I wrote back to the festival and explained the story and comment, and I expect they will forward that message on to the complainer. But I'd like to hear some Mudcat stories. Have you ever unintentionally put someone in your audience over the roof, either because they misunderstood - or because they took offense at something you believe inoffensive? |
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03 Nov 03 - 10:24 AM (#1046800) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Alaska Mike Hi Jed, I believe any of us who perform regularly (or irregularly in my case) have instances where we inadvertently offend or enrage an audience member. I was singing at a folk festival once and there were a bunch of us on stage doing a tribute to Stan Rogers. When I sang Barretts Privateers, several people got up and left. One of them later chewed me out profusely for not warning them of the lyric "God damn them all" before I started singing the song. Since that experience, I always make a short comment about that particular lyric prior to beginning my performance. Mike |
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03 Nov 03 - 10:28 AM (#1046804) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: JedMarum LOL - exactly the kind of story I was looking for Mike! Too funny. I never thought about "damn" or "God damn" in songs. I sing those words all the time. I've probably been p*ssing people off all over the place and don;t even know it! ;-) |
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03 Nov 03 - 10:35 AM (#1046810) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: GUEST,MMario I learned 'Parting Glass' with the final line of "Good night and God be with you all" - Sang it one day - and enraged one audience member - who informed me I had "totally ruined" the song for her in the future by forcing my Judeo-Christian morality on her. |
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03 Nov 03 - 10:42 AM (#1046815) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Willie-O Places not to sing "Barrett's Privateers" even if someone says it'll be fine: -religious schools -public schools -children's camps and (especially religious ones) -kids areas of festivals... -American audiences who might not care to hear "The Yankee lay low down with gold...She was broad and fat and loose in stays..." Beyond this, it's cleared for general-purpose use in Canada--and is obligatory in many locations (particularly licenced premises with Keith's draft). Hey, it's a standard. Another thing you might not want to do is invite an audience of kids to make up their own verses to "What do you do with a drunken sailor". There are a lot of songs I do which I preface with "this isn't very correct, sorry"--I figure it defuses the situation, cause I've never heard a complaint after that. That's my exception to my standard on-stage rule of "never apologize". |
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03 Nov 03 - 10:49 AM (#1046818) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Doktor Doktor There's a whole bunch of stuff you can't really do in public nowadays - I cringe to admit that having got outside a quantity of Abbot Ale I once launched into "Well I never seen the like since I been born ...... " only to spot a rather large West Indian chap at the bar. Discretion demanded a coughing fit ..... Similar issues surround "Thuthie", beloved by Cosmotheka afficionadoes (another one I sang in the wrong company & I'm still plucking up the courage to say sorry) and that nice song about Hecate & Inanna - try it at a Church Social .... or in our case in the vestry .... Is there a serious issue here? Do we do folk songs balls & all or do we temper them to PC sensibility? |
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03 Nov 03 - 10:51 AM (#1046820) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Steve Parkes I remember reading this in the UK Daily Mirror back in the 60s (so it must be true!): some Britsh academics were touring Russia giving talks on the life and works of Charles Dickens, who they described as "writing about life under Victorian captialism" ... only, their interpreter (obviously English!) said "victorious captialism" by mistake. Went down like a lead Soyuz. And if my wife is around when I'm singing, she always (after al these years) assumes there's a message in my choice of song. I usually try and include Jesse Fuller's "I don't know why I love you like I do", or "Fathom the bowl, with the wonderful line "My wife, shes a bitch". There was a UK band called The Black Country Three (Jon Raven et al), and they went to Spain about thirty-odd years ago. They were in a cantina singing English songs one night, and the locals asked them if they knewanything in Spanish; they foolishly obliged with the only Spanish song they knew, "Viva la Quince Brigata" from the communist side of the Civil War. Went down like a lead globo. |
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03 Nov 03 - 11:20 AM (#1046835) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: HuwG I sang "The Seven Deadly Sins" once, at a Social Club. At the start of verse 4, "Some say smoking's a sin ...", there were a few ripe comments. How was I to know that there had just been an acrimonious debate on whether the lounge was to be made a no-smoking area. Apparently kissing, gambling, swearing and drinking weren't regarded as particularly worthy of condemnation. |
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03 Nov 03 - 11:51 AM (#1046861) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Schantieman Many years ago a group of us went from Southport (Lancashire) to Bradford (Yorkshire) for a curry. (This may seem a long way, but curry aficionadoes will understand). It was preceded by the usual pub crawl, and the last one was a Victorian edifice, high ceilings, yellowed wallpaper and all. The 'act' was on as we arrived - a Flamenco guitarist, of all things. Shortly after we sat down, he stopped for his break. So we sang a song or two (as you do). I sang (perhaps unwisely!) the Holmfirth Anthem. When I got to "Wilt thou go fight the French and Spaniards?" the guitarist got up and walked out! Steve |
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03 Nov 03 - 11:52 AM (#1046862) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Dave Bryant I couldn't imagine any audience over here in the UK being upset by "Barrett's Privateers". You might hit some opposition if you sing a Fox-Hunting song these days though. |
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03 Nov 03 - 11:57 AM (#1046867) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Leadfingers Having just done a typical Leadfingers humorous set of not particularly P C songs a young lady with very short hair and sensible shoes came up to me and said I was a Male Chauvinist Bastard.upon which I merely smiled my sweetest smile and thanked her.She seemed somewhat nonplussed! |
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03 Nov 03 - 12:05 PM (#1046872) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Alaska Mike LOL Leadfingers, I also have been referred to as a Male Chauvinist Bastard by women in sensible shoes, but I never knew how to spell it before to put it into a post. Thanks. Mike |
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03 Nov 03 - 12:07 PM (#1046875) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Peterr I had a moment a while ago. Several of us were asked to jolly things up a bit at a (male) friend's wake. My turn came and I launched into Cosmotheka's version of Arry Arry Arry which includes the chorus line 'There's a nice little widder wiv a nice little pub' Changed after the first time through to 'A nice little lady.....' In a similar vein, singing 'Shaking of the Sheets' when some people had come to a session to be cheered up after a bereavement. (I do know songs that don't involve death..............I think.) |
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03 Nov 03 - 12:21 PM (#1046888) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Amos Well a lot of folk songs are MCB material, given they come from the hey day of the MCB -- when kings were kings and pirates were pirates and a man was a man and so on.... :>) (ducks to avoid flying rolling pin from stage right). So you can't do them justice, without at least taking on the colors of a MCB. It's a tribute to your art to be taken for the real thing! :>) A |
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03 Nov 03 - 12:43 PM (#1046908) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Richard Bridge I think the one I do that is the most divisive is the Innocent Hare - even got a comment from a normally "be nice to everyone" MC at a club one night, about it being an inapt use of the word "sportsman" but some of the travellers (not, I think, Roma) in North Kent seem much to like it. And the line from the Old Man from Over the Sea "the daft old cock couldn't learn how to screw" has been known to cause "tut-tut" noises. |
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03 Nov 03 - 01:17 PM (#1046931) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Willie-O Many years ago I saw Murray McLauchlan (Canadian songwriter) in concert at the National Arts Centre. He's known for, um, crossing the line now and then. On this occasion, I really have no idea why, but he remarked "Woody Allen's a funny guy", expanding on that to say that after his then-wife, or recent ex (not Mia) was raped while walking through Central Park, Woody quipped "knowing my wife, it probably wasn't a moving violation." Months later I read a story in Maclean's magazine about Murray, which recounted this very incident, and how someone sent him a note that the so-called joke was sickening. "Enhh," said Murray to the interviewer, "the point of my story was that Woody's an asshole." I was there, and I didn't catch the irony either--although in retrospect I believe him. You have to be careful using irony, where the implied meaning is the exact opposite of the literal meaning. Too many literalists out there. W-O |
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03 Nov 03 - 01:37 PM (#1046947) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Joan from Wigan A song which always offends me, whoever sings it, is John Lennon's "Working Class Hero" because of the inclusion of the f*** word. Call me old-fashioned, but I was brought up to believe swearing is not acceptable, and it certainly does not add any extra meaning to the lyrics. I know this isn't a folk-song, but I've heard it a few times in folk clubs. |
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03 Nov 03 - 01:46 PM (#1046955) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: GUEST the "f" word while scatological, crude and offensive to many is NOT a swear. |
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03 Nov 03 - 02:05 PM (#1046968) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: M.Ted I was once fired in the middle of a two month gig at a summer resort lounfw because I sang "Guantanamerra"--apparently the owner's wife heard me and was afraid that my Spanish music would fill the bar up with migrant farm workers-- Another time, many years ago, I was playing for a school group of young children--they wanted to sing"Billy, Don't Be A Hero"(so you know how long ago that was) so I played it, and they sang. The next day, the school administrator told me that one of the parents complained about me because I was glorifying militarism. Considering the fact that I worn shoulder length hair and a fatigue jacket covered with peace signs and anti-war buttons, she thought it was pretty funny-- |
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03 Nov 03 - 02:29 PM (#1046981) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Bill D ah, the "PC police" will always be with us...I was once chided for singing "Poor Lil" at an 'occupational hazards' workshop..(it's about the 'hazards' of the oldest profession) We know that there some songs which should be reserved for relevant occasions and understanding audiences, but you simply cannot censor everything, or half the references cease to be coherent! As Bok, Trickett amd Muir once said onstage.."You don't have to believe everything you sing!" (I can just hear Barrett's Privateers ...."...gosh durn them all.." POOH!) |
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03 Nov 03 - 02:44 PM (#1046991) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Cluin I sing "Barrett's Privateers" for Americans all the time, and never had one of them be offended by it yet. Don't forget that the Yanks kicked ass in that song. The only people I've ever found to be offended by it are those who prefer we not use the Lord's name in vain... one of whom is the fiddler in one of the groups I play with. He tends to stand way back on the stage or leaves sometimes when we do it. We only do it if it's requested; and he understands that. But I have sung that song so many times I don't really care if I never do it again. Of course we never perform it in the venues suggested above by Willie-O, with the exception of the American ones. |
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03 Nov 03 - 03:18 PM (#1047011) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: katlaughing For more on the non-PC drunken sailor bits, have a good read at Drunken sailor song protested |
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03 Nov 03 - 03:36 PM (#1047023) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Megan L Our church was asked to do a service at the old folks ward in the local hospital, the atmosphere grew steadily chillier as the singing went on. The bright spark who chose the hymns must have been really depressed when he did the choosing for every one was about death. He couldn't understand why they were never asked back. |
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03 Nov 03 - 05:07 PM (#1047076) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Joybell Here in Australia there is usually no real problem. "She'll be right" seems to prevail as it always has. There are a few lines in songs that are potentially offensive like "...when Chinese are coppers in Bourke street my darling I'll come back to thee" - which have quite rightly become meaningless except as a comment on past attitudes. "when rocks melt with the sun" would have been a more lasting way of putting it. We get requests for songs about death all the time in nursing homes. I've asked about it and I understand that it's because it reminds people that they are still alive - that's what they tell us anyway. |
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03 Nov 03 - 05:12 PM (#1047083) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Willie-O Hey, I was kidding about Americans and Barrett's Privateers. (sigh) nobody ever gets my irony... |
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03 Nov 03 - 06:01 PM (#1047110) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: GUEST Of course there is always the professional complainer who goes out with the intention of being offended. |
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03 Nov 03 - 06:17 PM (#1047124) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: harvey andrews Good L..d there's some touchy audiences out there. I once was talking to a female singer/songwriter who'd done a marvellous set about her newborn child and the impact motherhood had had on her and fatherhood had had on her husband.She walked the tightrope and never slipped off. A woman came up and interrupted our conversation with; "Do you realise that every song you sang was heterosexual thereby excluding a large percentage of the female population?" |
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03 Nov 03 - 07:01 PM (#1047158) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Joybell Joybell's pardner sez: i was in singapore at the end of 1975 to give some concerts live & on radio & tv, sponsored by the USIA. the organizer gave me a document issued by the local authorities. it was a mimeographed list, 2 or 3 pages long, of banned songs. it included "puff the magic dragon" (obvious to any paranoid wowser), and also "leaving on a jet plane" (supposedly because it is clear that she's going away to get an abortion). for my appearance on tv, i also had to omit the verse from Matchbox Blues which ends "you ought to seen me grab the pillow where my good gal used to lay". |
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03 Nov 03 - 07:01 PM (#1047160) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Mark Ross While playing for a conference in Missoula, Montana, in an effort to get the audience to sing along(they being full of good food, and spirits, and feeling somewhat lethargic)I told them that if they didn't sing, I would personally see to it that a Jehovah's Witness was at their door at 6AM the next day. Unbeknownst to me the fine woman who was in charge of the conference for a state agency, was a member of that faith. I had to do some fine back pedaling, let me tell you. Mark Ross |
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03 Nov 03 - 08:21 PM (#1047231) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Cluin Sorry, Willie-O. I see that now. Hope you weren't enraged by my obtuseness. ;) |
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04 Nov 03 - 12:41 AM (#1047395) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: LadyJean Anne Feeney, a local folksinger, has a collection she calls, "Seven Songs You Can't Sing In Edgewood". Edgewood is a Pittsburgh suburb, where, as my mother who grew up there said, "Even the Democrats are Republicans". Mom, incidentally, heard Anne Feeny sing one of those songs "That F Word" and thought it was hilarious. Mostly, because it is. |
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04 Nov 03 - 12:51 AM (#1047398) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Jimmy C Years ago, during a St. Patrick's Night gig we noticed some young Japenese men in the audience. Trying to be funny and also to make them feel welcome one of our group sang 'It's an Irish Lullaby" but introduced it as an Irish/ Japanese song " Tora Tora Tora". That was the last time we played that particular bar, some people got offended but NOT the Japanese. We have ran into some problems with ' Barret's Privateers" as well, so if we remember we sing ' Well damn them all ", but mostly we forget and sing it the way Stan wrote it. |
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04 Nov 03 - 01:42 AM (#1047420) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Bev and Jerry We perform mostly in schools. The rule is: In a public school you can't say God. In a parochial school, you can't say God enough. Bev and Jerry |
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04 Nov 03 - 03:44 AM (#1047457) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Roger the Skiffler All my stories enrage the audience, but then they know when I end the story I'm going to sing, which enrages them more! After my birthday bash one friend remionded me I'm only allowed to sing on special occasions and another regretted I'd already given up the day job! Sticks and stones.... RtS |
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04 Nov 03 - 04:21 AM (#1047465) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Gurney You are going to upset someone everywhere. They come out wanting to be upset. I sing folk songs in a folk setting. Anyone who doesn't like that, politely go away. It is MY setting, and I'll only consider folkies. The folkies I'll argue with. Having said that, I only use swearwords if I consider them necessary, and try to cut down the blasphemy. Barrett's priveteers is not blasphemy, the man the singer is representing is calling on God to curse the owners, no differently from any preacher calling on God to strike down sinners. Or does anyone think that only the appointed and anointed are allowed to talk to God? |
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04 Nov 03 - 04:25 AM (#1047468) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Dave Masterson I've been singing Barrett's Privateers for donkey's years, having learned it back in the 80's from John Purdy. I'm also a practising Christian (I'll get it right one day) and have no problems with singing 'God damn them all'. It's part of the song, which is about the frustration of a young man who has had his life ruined, basically through greed. This might be how he would vent that frustration. I don't find that offensive, although I realise that some of my fellow Christians might do. For that reason I wouldn't sing it in their presence, as the Bible has something to say about 'not stumbling the weaker brother'. I sing it because it's a great song, and also as a tribute to Purdy, who was a good bloke. Having said that, I do have problems with the f-word and the like. Spoken or sung in public I just find plain offensive. Not so much the word itself, but the assumption behind it that it's OK. That shows a total disregard for your peers, is a very selfish attitude and is just plain pig ignorant. |
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04 Nov 03 - 04:33 AM (#1047471) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Leadfingers Joybell- I was in Singapore with the R A F when the Singopore Government had a clamp down on 'drug oriented' music with Puff high on the list.Also on the list was The Rooftop Singers recording of Walk Right In which just happened to be the Signature tune of the BBC Far East radio Folk programmme!! |
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04 Nov 03 - 09:20 AM (#1047606) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: EBarnacle I once did a bar gig in Paterson, NJ, where I explained the history of Maid of Amsterdam. Talk about getting mobbed!! |
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04 Nov 03 - 09:56 AM (#1047629) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: GUEST,MC Fat I was co mpering on the main stage at Stainsby Folk Festival a few years ago when the following incident happened. Stainsby is a very safe grenfield site and has lots of kiddies activities, however some parents had decided to be oblivious to their off spring running up and down the aisles and at the front of the stage during concerts, I tried the nice 'can you make sure they don't spoil people's enjoyment' bit but the next day at the afternoon concert they were at it again. I wnet on stage and prior to indroducing the next act 'Could parents look after their kids as if they didn't they would be taken out a shot !!' a large cheer from the audience and I'm just about to continue when this woman starts berating from the front of the stage about frightening her child. As I'm trying to calm her down from main stage, the sound engineers (the inimitable Johnny Ramsey) is shouting at me thro' the stage monitors 'Good we can gas them then, or string them up !!' talk about tring not to laugh. |
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04 Nov 03 - 10:02 AM (#1047633) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: GUEST,Obie There is a pub in Halifax's Historic Properties Called the Lower Deck. It is in front of the Privateer's Wharf and this building was the privateers warehouse. No spot on earth could be a more appropriate setting for the singing of Barrett's Privateers. If any offence could ever be taken at the song it would be there if someone dared to change Stan's words. |
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04 Nov 03 - 11:50 AM (#1047702) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Dave Bryant I have been quite a few pubs which have displayed signs along the lines of: Any badly behaved or uncontrolled children will be sold into slavery. Several songs which I sing have words which would not be acceptable to some polite company. I tend to vary which words I use depending on the audience. In the "lobster Song" I get much more of a laugh by using the word "leg" rather than the word that would rhyme with "grunt". Mind you if I subsequently used the supressed word instead of a word to rhyme with leg, it would bring the house down and probably cause very little offence - once they laugh, they can hardly show outrage. Mind you I was once chided by an American Tourist for using the word "bloody" in the song "With her head tucked underneath her arm" - when I explained that "The Bloody Tower" was a location in the Tower of London, she told her husband that he should cross it off their itinery. Unless I was singing specifically for children, I would be very loathed to change the words of any traditional song to make it more acceptable. I was very amused by the quote "Do you realise that every song you sang was heterosexual thereby excluding a large percentage of the female population?". Surely the female who made it, was excluding the percentage of the male population who happen to be gay as well. Since a large percentage of traditional songs are about heterosexual relationships, perhaps she should find some other genre of music. My most embarassing moment was when I asked for a lady to help me sing "I touched her on the toe" a stunningly attractive girl volunteered. It was only when I got to the last line of the chorus that I realised that she was black. Since then I have always sung "My darling draw near" rather than the very non PC original. |
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04 Nov 03 - 12:21 PM (#1047731) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Peter T. I cannot imagine singing Working Class Hero without using what is, in the song, a truly appropriate word. It suggests that people think of songs as inoffensive entertainment, which is about as bourgeous as one can get. yours, Peter T. |
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04 Nov 03 - 04:57 PM (#1047945) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Joybell Leadfingers, Ah yes my true-love did tell me about "Walk Right In", it was one of the more puzzling ones. |
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04 Nov 03 - 07:28 PM (#1048082) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: katlaughing Our local health food store has a sign on their front door which says We don't mind your children, as long as you do. |
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04 Nov 03 - 07:31 PM (#1048084) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Mark Dowding I remember a gig I did at a village hall that wanted some folk singers as a bit of entertainment and I sang "The Green Fields of France" as one of my songs. Later that evening I was told that somebody who had "heard" me sing it had walked out in disgust at the fact that the organisers had hired an IRA sympathiser to sing some songs!!! I only wish he'd have come and said something to me and I'd have put him right about the song - I'd even have sung it again to him on his own but I imagine the lines about "the guns firing o'er you" and "the pipes played the Flowers of the Forest" set his mind racing and he didn't bother listening to the rest of the song. Ho hum! |
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04 Nov 03 - 11:24 PM (#1048192) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Phil Cooper Margaret and I managed to tick off someone singing "Da Co-Dependant Polka" at Kentucky Music Weekend. Someone came up and asked if she could talk to us about that song. She pretty much read us the riot act about it being woman unfriendly. I answered that the song was written by a woman (Susan Urban) and was based on true occurrances. But she wasn't buying it. I noted that the next ten people we talked to on the way up to get an ice cream cone (we were the act before the break) were very complimentary, several mentioning the same song. You always remember the negative comments. Speaking of Barrett's Privateers, I've heard of school performers being summarily fired for singing it at programs. When Stan performed it at a concert in the Chicago area in 1982, I believe, someone took him to task at the post concert party. Their beef was they were born again christians and found the "god damn them all" line offensive. Stan thanked them for speaking their piece and said (paraphrasing here, so will not use quotes) that the notion of all the universe paying homage to some grand puba of the universe was offensive to him. |
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05 Nov 03 - 12:00 AM (#1048201) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: LadyJean I used to do a puppet show of St. Dunstan and the Devil. At one point, my devil said, "You tore off my dose! you doddamed old idiot!" Thid did not play well in West Mifflin PA. |
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05 Nov 03 - 01:41 AM (#1048223) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: The Fooles Troupe Dave Bryant reminds me.. I went to see the second (I misseed the first, so had to wait till it came back again) production of "Jesus Christ Superstar" when it came to Brisbane - had John English as the Devil! At the point where the disciples have had the last supper, and were continuing to enjoy the religious benefits of Jesus' Blood, and are starting to be a little the worse for wear according to the words, this woman up near the back, leapt to her feet, and stormed down the aisle and out the main entrance, greatly upset. Her boyfriend, obviously captivated by the show, and looking rather confused and bemused, took a few minutes to follow her. :-) Robin |
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05 Nov 03 - 07:28 AM (#1048328) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Jen M Regarding Drunken Sailor, not all Connecticut towns are so conservative. My daughter's chorus sang a version with no repercussions. Her director was a classically trained singer and lacked knowledge of the full bredth of the song -- until my lovely daughter enlightened him by teaching a few additonal verses to her friends. She also delights in singing Rikkity Tikkity Tin to all who make the mistake of regarding her as a quiet innocent young lady. Of course since my mother loved to have my sisters and me entertain visitors with "Fascinating Witch" she is simply staying true to the family. |
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05 Nov 03 - 09:30 AM (#1048393) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: JedMarum When I first moved to Dallas and started playing music, I heard a song that the locals sang frequently. As ong they all got a big kick out of, and one I thought I thought my old Yankee New England friends would enjoy hearing - just because the the Dallas folks thought it was funny. So next time I played a pub in New England, I introduced and sang for them Lee Harvey Was a Friend of Mine. This is a silly song about the JFK assasination, pokes fun at the poor dumb "red-neck" type singing the song - but in no way is disrespectful of JFK, or anyone but the singer of the song. Anyway - sure enough the crowd loved the song. But afterward a young lady came up and said to me, "I have never been so insulted in all my life then by that song." Wow - I started to say I'm sorry you didn't like the song, but I wasn't - so I didn't. Maybe she misunderstood. Maybe she just needed to find something insulting that night. She wasn't in the modd to discuss it - so I'll never know. |
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05 Nov 03 - 09:45 AM (#1048405) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Midchuck So one time we had an outdoor gig for the local farmers' market, and Kris sang A Chat With Your Mother (the song everyone but the Berrymans who wrote it, and us, insist on calling "The F-word song.") A lady came up aftewords and said she didn't think such a thing should be sung with children present. Kris said, "But, it has no dirty words at all. That's part of the point of the song!" The lady said, yes, but what if my son should ask what the "F word" is. What will I tell him? Kris asked if the son was in school yet. The lady said he was in kindergarten. Kris (who has been a public school teacher most of her adult life) said: "He knows. Trust me, he knows." Another time, at the same farmers' market, our friend Dick McCormack sang his own Little Boxes Re-Visited. Sure enough, someone came up and claimed it was disrespectful of craftspeople. If we continue with this obsession about never offending anyone (except maybe blondes and lawyers), humor will die out. Fortunately, I'll die out along about the same time. Peter. |
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05 Nov 03 - 09:48 AM (#1048408) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: JedMarum One more ... I wrote a song about a Confederate Irish Regiment - they were Irish born, or sons of Irish immigrants living in New Orleans just before the Civil War. The song is called the Fighting Tigers of Ireland. It honors the men of the 6th Louisiana ... now when I wrote it, it never occurred to me that some would find it offensive. But I played it once in Phoenix, and had a few people get up and leave. They didn't complain (to me) - but they'd clearly been enjoying the show up until then. I've since noticed some will not clap for the song, though they enjoy the rest of the show. It's too bad. It's a good song. So I've made the attempt, when there's time, to comment on the issue before I sing the song. If there isn't time, I don't sing it. Even if you couldn't support the Confederate cause, or hate the slavery it tried to protect - surely afer 150 years you can still recognize the bravery and indeed heroism of some who fought for it. I've never had the same reaction for any of my Yankee songs. |
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05 Nov 03 - 10:49 AM (#1048444) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Amos Jed: They weren't fighting to defend the institution of slavery directly, but the right to secede from the Union. State self-determination was the cornerstone of the Confederate cause, IMNSHO. It was a legitimate cause (if not a legitimate casus belli) independent of the wrongs of slavery. And it gethered to it a fair number of heroic men who just didn't much care about realpolitik. A |
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05 Nov 03 - 11:13 AM (#1048456) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: The Barden of England No so much enraging an audience more a person. I did happen to mention one of Sid Kipper's observations that 'If Whales are so clever why don't they duck?' by way of an introduction to singing Andy Barnes's 'Last of the Great Whales'. At the half-time break of the concert a member of the audience came up to me most hot and bothered and said 'I found your remark about the Whale most offensive, I'm a member of Greenpeace!'. I was almost dumbstruck, but thought that this person took themselves far too seriously, so my retort was 'I've heard penicillin is a great cure for that'. I don't think they saw the funny side of that either. Why are some people so serious? |
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05 Nov 03 - 11:31 AM (#1048467) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: GUEST,M'Grath of Altcar I sang Palaces of Gold at a conservative club once. Ah the exuberance of youth!! Ive sung Anarchy in the UK in a rather traditional folk club out of pure devilment! |
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05 Nov 03 - 01:01 PM (#1048517) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: alanabit I think a lot of the stories here are about that culture of offendedness, which someone - possibly Harvey Andrews - started a thread about a few months ago. Political Correctness (I mean in its overdone and most useless sense) may be one of the causes. I think also part of the problem may lie in the culture of over identifying a song's sentiments with its singer. You can sing a song like "Sam Hall" or "Rosemary Lane" in which the singer portrays an unrepentant murderer and a pregnant waif respectively. For some reason, no one minds if you speak through these characters' mouths. However, I have no doubt that if I tried to tell the story from the point of view of an Al Quaida bomber, I would be instantly accused by many of "supporting terrorism" or "condoning murder". I do fear that a lot of people listen less critically than they might. I do not believe that performers should give too much ground to this tendency, because it could dilute dilute and corrupt the value of a performing culture. |
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05 Nov 03 - 01:31 PM (#1048541) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: JedMarum I agree with you, Amos. Great response, John Barden! |
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05 Nov 03 - 05:09 PM (#1048654) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Richard Bridge John, the reason they are so serious is probably that they are sober. |
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05 Nov 03 - 05:16 PM (#1048658) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Joybell I once had a lady get quite enraged with me because I didn't know her favourite song. Sort of the opposite of these stories. She kept saying "I thought you were here to sing what we like not to please yourself!" I had already sung other songs for her that were written by the same song-writer, but she was not to be put off. Her husband later slipped me a large tip. |
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05 Nov 03 - 05:22 PM (#1048660) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: LilyFestre Mark Ross....your story just cracked me up!!!!!!! Michelle |
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05 Nov 03 - 06:14 PM (#1048703) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: The Barden of England Joybell That's rather like being asked 'Come on - sing a song we know', which will get the answer 'I'd rather sing a song that I know!' Richard You're probably right - I don't think they could handle a hangover! |
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05 Nov 03 - 06:35 PM (#1048731) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Leadfingers Joybell's post about requests-- What always gets me is the clown who requests a song,and when told "Sorry,I dont know that" replies "of course you do it goes La La La etc" To my mind 'knowing a song'means having ALL the words AND the chord run , not just an idea of how the tune goes. |
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05 Nov 03 - 06:44 PM (#1048736) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Greg F. They weren't fighting to defend the institution of slavery directly... Actually, yes they were, Amos. I'm somewhat surprised you subscribe to this common misconception. Have you ever read any of the contemporary documentation? for instance the South Carolina Ordinance of Secession? Excerpt follows: " Those States have assumed the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property [in slaves] established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection. For twenty-five years this agitation has been steadily increasing, until it has now secured to its aid the power of the common Government. Observing the *forms* [emphasis in the original] of the Constitution, a sectional party has found within that Article establishing the Executive Department, the means of subverting the Constitution itself. A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction." This is only one of literally hundreds (if not thousands?) of contemporary examples, including the writings of Jefferson Davis, Alexander Stephens, Etc.Etc. They made no bones about the fact they they were fighting to preserve and protect the institution of slavery- moreover they were proud of it. I often wonder if they would be amused or offended and dismayed by the persistent 20th century efforts to whitewash the fact. Talk about "political correctness"! Best, Greg |
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05 Nov 03 - 07:12 PM (#1048768) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Joybell I got rather good at guessing what people wanted with the minimum amount of information. Rather depressing really because it was always a popular song of the time - never something different. A group here in Australia wrote a song called, "Sing Something We Know Mate!" Good song, but I think they were probably sorry after the 1000th time it got requested. |
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05 Nov 03 - 08:07 PM (#1048794) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Celtaddict Joybell: I have tried in vain to make contact with Scott Balfour who wrote and recorded "Play "Something We Know, Mate" with his band Bloodwood. He is somewhere in Alice Springs as far as I know. Do you have a contact? OK, threadcreep, but not as far as U.S. Civil War motives. I also get rather a kick out of deciphering, "play the one that you were riding the bus and had to get your guitar" (Summer in Dublin) and "whale make strike" (Greenland Whale Fisheries). |
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05 Nov 03 - 08:16 PM (#1048798) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Amos Greg: For all the patches I have placed on it, my education still is riddled with holes large enough to drive a Sherman tank through, and this may well be one of them -- I will take your analysis under close consideration. Thanks! A |
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05 Nov 03 - 08:51 PM (#1048824) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Mark Ross Michelle, Glad you liked the story. Only one of the ways that I have pissed off audiences over the years. Mark Ross |
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06 Nov 03 - 04:58 AM (#1049031) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: GUEST,oggie I suspect that all of us who have been singing for a few years (in my case from the early seventies) have a store of songs that we wouldn't sing now but did once upon a time inflict on an audience. Why we don't is another issue - do we grow more sensible to other peoples feelings or just bottle it? or do we grow up as well? Having said that I've got a version of Steve Earles 'John Walker Blues' which I'm trying to work up the nerve to sing in public. All the best oggie |
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06 Nov 03 - 01:52 PM (#1049339) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Melani Common sense is always good. Many sea chanteys contain the "n-word", but it can easily be changed to "sailor". When singing "Paddy West" for kids, we change "the mate's a bastard" to "the mate is nasty". Since I do most of my singing in a national park, I am always concerned about stuff that most or many people might find offensive, especially since most chanteys were sung in all-male environments for the entertainment of the crew while working. But of course there will always be those PC types who will get offended at practically anything, and you simply have to ignore them or tell them you're sorry they were offended and leave it at that. The time that really got me was singing for a kid program aboard the Lady Washington. I asked them what their standards were for kids, and was told, "No bad words (obviously!), no drinking, and no splicing Sally Brown." So what's left? That left out practically every chantey I know. I finally came up with one about a storm at sea. Talk about sugar-coating history for kids! When they sang "Paddy Lay Back", instead of "I got paralytic drunk on my advance", it was "I bought a shirt and a new pair of pants." |
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06 Nov 03 - 02:46 PM (#1049388) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: GUEST,Jim Dixon "Short hair and sensible shoes" -- Hmmm. Now what in the world would those details have to do with someone's opinion about your performance? Is it simply that some people's opinions are easier to dismiss because of the way they dress or wear their hair? Where have I heard that before? Leadfingers, I think I don't need to hear your songs to understand why you offend people. |
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06 Nov 03 - 05:09 PM (#1049502) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Joybell Well Celtaddict, a wonderful group here! (Thanks for the correction on the song title). I came across Bloodwood, must be nearly 30 years ago, at a festival in South Australia. Haven't heard anything of them since. I have various contacts here and friends with more so I'll get onto trying to find Scott Balfour. Bob Bolton and Sandra may know too I'll send messages. Regards Joy |
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01 Sep 08 - 04:26 PM (#2427957) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: kendall As some of you know, I recorded "I've got no use for the women". To me it was just an old song that I learned as a kid. However, one time I was doing a performance for public tv, and in the front row, was a woman wearing a cap with a pigs nose and eyes looking right at me. The message was quite clear. That woman didn't know me at all. She is now a commentator on CNN. I just saw her reporting on the hurricane. I looked her right in the face and eyes and sang "Blue Eyes Crying in the rain". No words passed between us.She judged me on the lyrics of an old song that I didn't write. Glad I didn't sing "Banks of the Ohio". |
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01 Sep 08 - 05:04 PM (#2427995) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Big Al Whittle thank heavens I've never offended anyone! |
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01 Sep 08 - 06:30 PM (#2428089) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Anne Lister My most alarming moment was when I was singing for some people in the US (Shenandoah Valley, I think) and was accosted after my first set by a very enraged, very big chap who had been mortally offended by my song about dragons. Ursula le Guin-type dragons. "It sounds as if you're kinda ON THE SIDE of the dragons", he growled at me. I made some incoherent remark to the effect that I didn't think dragons cared one way or another about which side I was on, and the organiser of the event managed to distract him, but I'll never know just why he took it so personally. Something about Vietnam, someone said, but I didn't think dragons were involved there .... Anne |
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01 Sep 08 - 07:42 PM (#2428158) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Acorn4 I had a similar experience to Mark Ross in that, just after I rejoined the folk scene after a fifteen year absence due to family/career I wrote a song called "Jehovah's Windows" which was about a Jehovah's witness who sells double glazing. When performing it at a local club I was politely asked the next time I went back if I would mind not doing that particular song again. I was puzzled, and only a couple of weeks later did it emerge that the couple running the club were in fact JWs. I would have thought the chances of winning the lottery greater! In fact we've since become quite good friends. I had another experience with a parody I've produced called "In the Gateau" -it's based on Elvis's "In the Ghetto" and was basically written about myself trying to resist the temptation of food after Christmas. If I was going to get protests I would have thought it would either be from people with a bit of a weight problem, or death threats from irate Elvis fans. I wrote a line in the song "I can't live on rice cakes that taste like polystyrene tiles" - I was given a lecture by a lady on the virtues of the rice cake "Have you ever eaten a rice cake?" "Have you ever eaten a polystyrene tile?" so I ended up being taken to task over the song from a very thin person. I'm a great believer in "It's not what you say , it's the way that you say it!" - Anne Robinson can get away with being rude to everybody because people know it's not really meant and that knowing wink is always present. |
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01 Sep 08 - 08:09 PM (#2428166) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: kendall If I am making an effort to irritate someone, that's one thing; but to be chastised otherwise is irritating to me. |
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01 Sep 08 - 09:34 PM (#2428234) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Mark Ross Playing a children's show at the local library last year, I was gently(and quite politely) taken to task for singing Utah Phillip's KIDS LIBERATION SONG with the line, "sometimes you hit me just 'cause you want to," for the reason that they seemd to think it glorified child abuse. LITTLE BUNNY FOOFOO was considered acceptable. I think that playing the banjo for young kids is more abusive to children than that and I do that 3 or 4 times a week! Mark Ross |
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01 Sep 08 - 11:30 PM (#2428309) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Jayto I told one story on a thread I think it was Worst gigs ever. It really wasn't that bad of a gig though. The lead singer/aongwriter wrote a song about police from the cops point of view. It was a great song and someone requested it. To make a long story short a biker dude in the crowd didn't like it and got mouthy. The singer came off the stage hitting the mouthy biker in the face. Biker buddies jumped the singer. Label reps and band jump the bikers. Owner fired gun into the air. We got up and finished the gig. If you want to read the whole story check out the Worst gig thread. My songs that I write have always been darker songs. I am pretty accustomed to people getting up and leaving. My other band (no longer together) were pretty dark songs as well. It was a regular occurence for some people not to like us and get mouthy. In turn the ones who did like us (VERY LOYAL) would in turn wind up in fights with the mouthy ones that didn;t like us. Our gigs were never boring. Some called us folk rock and others called us alt country. Whatever you wanted to call that band it was not boring. |
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02 Sep 08 - 02:47 PM (#2429030) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: romany man its easy to enrage any audience , just watch what happens when my relations pull onto a piece of land with their caravans, hee hee |
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02 Sep 08 - 04:46 PM (#2429173) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: oggie Many years ago I introduced a transportation song with the old quip about Aussies walking with a limp due to the ancestral ball and chain (I was young and it was long ago) at which point a member of the audience leapt up, grabbed me by the collar, hoisted off my feet and yelled at me "We'll have no more cracks like that you pommie b******d!" Steve |
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03 Sep 08 - 07:13 AM (#2429678) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Mo the caller At Harvest Supper barn dances the guitarist of a band I work with encourages the dancers to sing 'John Barleycorn' to the tune of 'We plough the fields and scatter' He's an Anglican vicar, but he should have known better when we played at the Salvation Army. |
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03 Sep 08 - 07:29 AM (#2429683) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: kendall If we worry about offending someone, we would have to stay home. It will happen. At an outdoor party years ago I sang Shel Silverstein's "Three Legged Man", and afterwards I was on my knees putting the guitar into its case when I heard a creaking sound behind me. I looked sideways and saw a metal leg within kicking distance. I thought, "Well, either I or my guitar is in serious trouble. I looked up and there was a man with a huge grin on his face! He loved that song and wanted me to come and perform at a meeting of his handicapped group. Mark, that line in Utah's song does just the opposite! It points out the fact that some parents should have bought a goldfish instead of having a child. That requires a lower IQ. |
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03 Sep 08 - 07:52 AM (#2429696) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: GUEST,Working Radish I walk out (although only as far as the bar) if I ever hear anything glorifying the Confederacy - even "The night they drove old Dixie down". It was the same when someone launched into a song about hard times for white farmers in Zimbabwe. I know lots of Confederates fought bravely, and I know white farmers in Zimbabwe are having a dreadful time - and "TNDDODD" is a great song, come to that. I just find some groups particularly hard to sympathise with. The funny thing is how automatic it is - I'm halfway to the door before I realise I'm walking out. I must have radical legs. |
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03 Sep 08 - 08:19 AM (#2429718) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: mandotim The best one I ever heard was from my brother, who was at a cabaret night some years ago at an Irish Catholic club in Lancashire. Typical club of the time; big concert room, stage, green curtains, picture of the Pope and a large crucifix at the back of the stage. The clergy and several nuns had permanently reserved seats at the front. The comedian/singer/raconteur Wandering Walter was the 'turn' for the evening. Before the gig, someone from the committee told Walter that the club had been burgled the week before, and the bar takings and cigarette machine had been emptied. Walter came on, did his opening song, and then said; 'EEEE, I were proper sorry to hear about your burglary; it's a right poor do, and no mistake.' He then glanced behind him at the crucifix, and said 'See you got the bastard though!' Shortest gig in living memory, I believe. Tim;) |
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03 Sep 08 - 09:23 AM (#2429756) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: Jayto I try to avoid generalizations, stereotypes, labels of any type. I know it is hard to see past them sometimes (I am not just saying that. We are all human you know). Human suffering and hardships though are something I sympathize with with very little exceptions. I understand your point of view Working Radish and I am not meaning to enrage you when talking about enraging an audience. I do appreciate your distinction though between the Confederacy and Southerners. Rarely in statements like that do you encounter that distinction and that is when my blood boils. I do not condone in anyway shape or form the bigotry and enslavement that occurred in the south. That would be a contridiction to what I have already written in the post. I want to make sure I do not leave that vague at all. Soemtimes people misunderstand or just read what they want in a post So I want to make that specifically clear. I respect your feelings but being a person of conviction I had to respond or it would have bugged me all day. I am not trying to start an argument I am simply putting my 2 cents in. I know I will probably get scolded for this one but I feel that until we view human beings as humans and not labels and sterotypes and learn to help the downtrodden and sympathize as a whole. Horrible attrocities will continue to occur. Ok off my soapbox just had to get that off my chest. |
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03 Sep 08 - 10:05 AM (#2429793) Subject: RE: Enrage Your Audience Stories? From: MartinRyan Missed this thread first time round.... A few years ago I sang a (short) version of The Clarin's Mossy Banks at a session in a pub, concentrating on the verses relating to coursing hares - because I love the image in the final verse where his reaction to hearing the final trumpet is to think "Jeez, lads! We're off again - where's me dog?". Anyway, a woman, one of the musicians in the group, came up to me afterwards and said: "I hate blood sports - especially coursing. But - that man obviously loved his dogs!". Regards |