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29 Nov 03 - 01:13 PM (#1062853) Subject: BS: How to say these Dutch/Ukrainian names? From: Marion Hello my knowledgeable friends. There's a couple of names I've come across in a story that I hope to write songs about - thought I'd better get the pronunciation straight first. The first is Joop, a Dutch first name for a man. The other is Kryskiw, a Ukrainian last name. Thanks, Marion |
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29 Nov 03 - 02:42 PM (#1062878) Subject: RE: BS: How to say these Dutch/Ukrainian names? From: Geoff the Duck I grew up in Bradford, Yorkshire, and attended schools where a large number of pupils belonged to parents of Eastern European descent. These included Poles, Ukrainians, and Czechs. In general I have found Ukrainian names pronounced pretty much as they are written, with the posible exception of a W sounding more like a V. This I suspect is in part related to the fact that the names written originally in Kyrillic script were converted phonetically to the best sounding English spelling. There are some anomalies, for instance the (Male) name Karl which is also found spelt Carol, but pronounced Carl. I would expect to pronounce Kryskiw "Chriskiv" with the first syllable somewhere between a soft and hard "C" sound (a bit like in Christmas). Quack! Geoff the Duck. |
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29 Nov 03 - 02:53 PM (#1062883) Subject: RE: BS: How to say these Dutch/Ukrainian names? From: John Hindsill My son at the U. of Amsterdam has told me that Dutch doubled vowels generally have the value of a long vowel in English. The J is pretty much a Y. So I guess Joop would be pronounced Yope. |
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29 Nov 03 - 08:23 PM (#1063019) Subject: RE: BS: How to say these Dutch/Ukrainian names? From: GUEST,Heidebundt Pikelmaas I am so tired of stupid peoples who can't pronounce my name or any European name. It is good of you to launch a discussion of this vital problem. People should get some education I think about their overseas neighbours and it could avoid these embarrassments. Why do the English write Geoff and then pronounce it totally differently from that? I will tell you why. The English are crazy. |
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29 Nov 03 - 08:26 PM (#1063022) Subject: RE: BS: How to say these Dutch/Ukrainian names? From: GUEST,Slatbein Niedermayer Yes, they are! And they have very poor cuisine! I have had such bad cafe experiences in England as would curl your hair to hear of it. |
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29 Nov 03 - 08:39 PM (#1063029) Subject: RE: BS: How to say these Dutch/Ukrainian names? From: GUEST,Ptarbusche Tinkenheimer Slatbein, are you of the Schelde Niedermayers? Do you have an uncle Karl who owns a bistro in Gummersbach? I used to do much business with the Niedermayer family, moving technical products to Africa. |
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29 Nov 03 - 08:39 PM (#1063031) Subject: RE: BS: How to say these Dutch/Ukrainian names? From: GUEST,pdq Now that we have experts to ask, how do you pronounce the name Mark Spoelstra? |
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30 Nov 03 - 03:19 PM (#1063286) Subject: RE: BS: How to say these Dutch/Ukrainian names? From: Nigel Parsons Marion: John has it accurate with Joop = Yope (to rhyme with soap, rope, etc.) Nigel |
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01 Dec 03 - 03:32 PM (#1063879) Subject: RE: BS: How to say these Dutch/Ukrainian names? From: TheBigPinkLad What about Bjork? |
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02 Dec 03 - 09:15 AM (#1064397) Subject: RE: BS: How to say these Dutch/Ukrainian names? From: Wilfried Schaum Joop: Like Nigel says. The short form for Joseph; in Germany at Cologne: Jupp. Kryskiw: approximately Kruiskiff, stress on the ui. The y stands for a sound like ü articulated backsides with the lips formed for an i, similar to the Turkish dotless i. Spoelstra: Netherlands oe = long u (as in spoon) Bjork: Scandinavian, there is a slash through the o = German ö Only a few gifted people can pronounce the Umlauts ö and ü: Sandinavians, Germans, French and Turks. You others: don't grieve, you might follow the Russian example: ö like yo, and ü like yu (Europe). There are some trollish yokels in this thread, Marion. Disregard them. Orthography has its mysteries hidden deep in history; feel free to ask. Wilfried |
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02 Dec 03 - 02:08 PM (#1064580) Subject: RE: BS: How to say these Dutch/Ukrainian names? From: TheBigPinkLad Whoa there, Wilfried! Geordies (and indeed other English northerners) are expert in the umlaut. It makes for a superior delivery of 'those' swearwords. |
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04 Dec 03 - 03:44 AM (#1065302) Subject: RE: BS: How to say these Dutch/Ukrainian names? From: Wilfried Schaum Hi, BigPinkLad - you see me baffled. What is a Geordie? Living near Hadrian's Wall? So far I didn't travel on this Isle, so I never heard umlauts in England. That's so fine with the forum: you're always learning more and more. Wilfried |
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04 Dec 03 - 12:24 PM (#1065528) Subject: RE: BS: How to say these Dutch/Ukrainian names? From: TheBigPinkLad Yes, Wilfried ... you and I may be distant cousins from way, way back. ;o) |