|
01 Dec 03 - 02:09 PM (#1063831) Subject: Lake District Golden Eagles From: greg stephens There is a musical connection to this thread. I am just writing up the sleeve notes for a Cumbrian music recording. I am writing up William Irwin, the 19th century Langdale fiddler. (I should mention I am talking about England here). and I have some unpublished family reminiscences about climbing for eagles' eggs to sell to tourists. Now, my question is this. Does anybody know, or can find out(I've hada look without success) when the Golden Eagle is meant to have vanished from the Lake District? because I am not fully convinced this story is true (though it's a good story). Gratifyingly, of course, the eagles have started to come back; I just want to know when the last one was killed in ye olde days. |
|
01 Dec 03 - 03:58 PM (#1063897) Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles From: BanjoRay There've always been a few eagles in the lakes since I started walking there back in the early seventies - not that I ever got to see any. What do you mean by the good old days, Greg? Ray |
|
01 Dec 03 - 04:48 PM (#1063939) Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles From: greg stephens They have been around the Mardale region (one breeding pair plus offspring)for the last 20/30 years or so, but before then they had been gone for a long time. Trouble is, I cant find out how long. Sometime vaguely round 1800 plus or minus, possibly, but I'm sure the extinction of such a famous bird in England must have been noted at the time reasonably accurately. And I want to know if the story of William Irwin's son taking eagles' eggs is feasible. |
|
01 Dec 03 - 08:46 PM (#1064109) Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles From: BanjoRay This was on the RSPB website under Population Trends: "In the UK the population decline began in the 18th century as a result of severe persecution by sheep farmers, which was aggravated in the 19th century by shooting by gamekeepers. A further major decline came in 1950s and 1960s when pesticides concentrated in the bodies of eagles causing widespread infertility and eggshell thinning. The golden eagle was exterminated in England and Wales by 1850, and in Ireland by 1912. Despite severe persecution, it managed to survive in small numbers in Scotland." I imagine the last ones were in the Lakes and/or Snowdonia. Cheers Ray |
|
02 Dec 03 - 03:12 AM (#1064223) Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles From: greg stephens Thanks, Ray. That's the sort of thing I'm looking for. Bit vague though, isnt it? Lumping Wales and England together, there's no way of guessing whether N Wales or the Lakes were the last to go. And this is the critical area of dates...I havent as yet managed to work out exactly when William Irwin's son was reputed to be collecting eggs, but it's got to be somewhere in the 1840-1860 period. What it intrigues me, you see, is the possibility he might have got the last one! And I want to find out. |
|
02 Dec 03 - 04:22 AM (#1064246) Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles From: BanjoRay A climb called Eagle's Nest Direct was done in 1892 on the Napes on Great Gable, but I suppose the name could well have been in local legend for years before. Cheers Ray |
|
02 Dec 03 - 05:18 AM (#1064267) Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles From: Dave Hanson Driving up the M6 in the 80s we saw a golden eagle in the mountains around Tebay. eric |
|
02 Dec 03 - 05:19 AM (#1064268) Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles From: greg stephens I wonder when they started that kind of recreational climbing...that sounds like a climbers' name, not a local name. The relevant place for William Irwin's son's nefarious activities was Pavey Ark, according to my informant(a descendant). |
|
02 Dec 03 - 05:21 AM (#1064272) Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles From: greg stephens Eric: that was one of the Mardale eagles, definitely their territory. You're lucky, I've been up and down the M6 a million times in the last 30 years and never spotted one. |
|
02 Dec 03 - 06:00 AM (#1064296) Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles From: BanjoRay Lots of good history and superb Abraham Brothers photographs of early Lakes rock climbing here. Ray- |
|
02 Dec 03 - 08:56 AM (#1064377) Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles From: GUEST,Philippa You may be interested in these webpages about the re-introduction of Golden Eagles in Ireland |
|
02 Dec 03 - 08:16 PM (#1064793) Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles From: The Shambles The best bet is the local Natural History Groups. They will produce an annual report and if you can find one of these (the library is a good place to look) you will see the name of the local recorder and a list of contributors who will be able to give you the local details you require. It used to to be called the Cumbrian Bird Report or The Birds of Cumbria in the days when I was more active, but it may well have changed since then. |
|
02 Dec 03 - 08:31 PM (#1064802) Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles From: The Shambles It is now called the Cumbria Bird Group and I see that they have recently produced an atlas of the breeding birds of the area. http://www.cumbriabirdclub.freeserve.co.uk/breeding_birds_of_cumbria1.htm I am sure that there will be some info in this book about the past status of the region's eagle population but as information about the breeding sites of these birds in England is rather sensitive - it is best to make personal contact with the local experts for details. You may first have to try and convince them that you are not intending to continue the family tradition of robbing eagle's nests *Smiles* Good luck and let us know the answers when you find out. |
|
03 Dec 03 - 02:21 PM (#1064918) Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles From: greg stephens The Shambles: thanks, that looks like just the contact I need. I've emailed the society's organiser asking for information. I'll report back if they can tell me anything. |
|
04 Dec 03 - 10:31 AM (#1065474) Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles From: Stilly River Sage A couple of Scottish folk singing mountain climbing historians were speakers at an environmental conference I attended at Weber State University in Utah about three years ago. They outlined the early origins of tourist hiking and climbing in the mountains in Great Britain in general, placing the beginnings right around 1800, and increasing in popularity pretty quickly. SRS |
|
04 Dec 03 - 11:11 AM (#1065491) Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles From: Trevor Don't forget - the eagle may soar high, but the weasel never gets sucked into a jet engine......... |
|
05 Dec 03 - 07:00 AM (#1065962) Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles From: The Shambles The poor weasel does however get 'popped'.............. |
|
05 Dec 03 - 07:31 AM (#1065973) Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles From: Peterr BanjoRay - PM from me re early Lakeland climbs Peter |
|
05 Dec 03 - 11:24 AM (#1066112) Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles From: greg stephens Well this gets very interesting. All enquiries so far suggest the eagles had stopped nesting by 1800 in the Lake District. But the Irwin family traditions imply there was at least one pair of eagles nesting in Langdale c 1850, possibly later. I shall pursue further enquiries. |
|
05 Dec 03 - 11:34 AM (#1066119) Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles From: mooman Dear Greg, A possible source of information could be Dave Walker, author of "The Golden Eagle in Lakeland". I don't have his details but he may be contactable through This UK site on Eagles and other raptors Peace and good luck, moo |
|
05 Dec 03 - 12:26 PM (#1066147) Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles From: BanjoRay This page states that the last clutch found in the Lake District was in 1824. Cheers Ray |
|
05 Dec 03 - 12:43 PM (#1066156) Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles From: GUEST,Ross pa If eric the red spends too much time determining whether the buzzards he sees above the M6 are really eagles he might end up with the last clutch found in the district being the one from his car embedded in his .... Enjoy watching. In the countryside birds etc - on the road other motorists. |
|
05 Dec 03 - 06:49 PM (#1066371) Subject: RE: Lake District Golden Eagles From: greg stephens Buzzards and eagles: it's easy to imagine(with a bit of wishful thinking) that buzzards are eagles. But when you see your first indisputable eagle(it happened to me on Luing, W Coast of Scotland.1989, followed by plenty around the Mull area)...after that you know. |