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Folklore: Dress colours??

13 Dec 03 - 12:42 PM (#1071585)
Subject: Folklore: Dress colours??
From: White Dove

In 'Lee boys Lassie' the wearing of certain colours conveyed a particular meaning as in black for mourning...

what then does she mean by dying her 'petticoats red' and facing 'them with the yellow'?

Also in others was there a traditional meaning to wearing green or any other colour for that matter??

I think I ought to know this but I hope someone here can give a logical or even illogical answer please :-)

Who were the Lee Boys or the Dyster Lads? Maybe thats asking a bit much?


13 Dec 03 - 02:14 PM (#1071629)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Dress colours??
From: Geoff the Duck

Not sure - lots of dresses are coloured to give the rhyme for the next line - e.g. Cocaine Blues has loads of them... John Hardy in different variants has a girl dressed in red who comes to his hanging ground and says Johnny I've come to see you dead / a girl dressed in blue who says Johnny I'll be true to you.

Of course Purple means you ar an Emperor, Scarlet means you are a Cardinal and a White means you are the Pope... Oh, and a little balck dress means you are Mary Quant (or was it CoCo Chanel?).

Quack!
Geoff the Duck.


13 Dec 03 - 03:40 PM (#1071682)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Dress colours??
From: Willa

Hi, Roz

A verse of Siúl a rúin (or Shule Aroon) begins 'I'll dye my petticoats, dye them red' and I've seen a reference somewhere on the various links to that song that it suggests prostitution. (A 'scarlet woman', perhaps?)Don't know about the yellow lining.


13 Dec 03 - 04:06 PM (#1071695)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Dress colours??
From: GUEST,Auldtimer

Often the colours were associated with which ever army regement (not football team) the "boyfriend" had joined. Lea boys AKA Light Bobs, I think we are back to regements here and "The Dyster lads", I allways asumed, were the lads in the dye works where the lassie would take her pettecoats.
Cheers


13 Dec 03 - 04:18 PM (#1071704)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Dress colours??
From: Malcolm Douglas

It seems to be pretty much a poetic commonplace, and perhaps symbolic more of "throwing over the traces" than of prostitution in songs of this sort. Dysters, of course, are simply Dyers. "Leaboy" (there is only one; the -s indicates the possessive form), Light Bob, Lichtbob and so on occur; and sometimes a ploughboy. Explanations differ: a "lichtbob" is sometimes taken to be a soldier, and a "leaboy" a herdsman. I don't know if there is a definitive answer.


13 Dec 03 - 05:05 PM (#1071719)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Dress colours??
From: Joybell

Green, in foklore, is an unlucky colour often associated with the world of Faerie. When we were kids we chanted "Blue and green should never be seen except upon a Faerie Queen". Some kids said that it meant that you shouldn't wear the two colours together but I have my doubts about that. Blue is a royal colour and green is the Faerie colour so a Faerie Queen might well wear both or either.


13 Dec 03 - 06:54 PM (#1071761)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Dress colours??
From: Sorcha

Also, in Irish folklore, ladies wore red petticoats to protect them from the Little People.


13 Dec 03 - 08:57 PM (#1071794)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Dress colours??
From: mack/misophist

I know of no songs, but I've heard a number of tales where red is worn to hide the blood that's expected to flow.


14 Dec 03 - 02:37 AM (#1071901)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Dress colours??
From: JennieG

I have read that in the 19th century ladies (or women *grin*) wore red flannel petticoats because they were warmer than any other colour.
Cheers
JennieG


14 Dec 03 - 02:45 AM (#1071903)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Dress colours??
From: mouldy

I don't know how widespread the saying is, but I have heard the phrase here up north, "Red shoes, no knickers". This is an assumption of the type of woman who would go out in red shoes. Is this a more modern take on the red petticoat theme?

I have also heard of wearing red to conceal blood in battle situations.

We used to chant "Blue and green should never be seen, except on a fool". Whether this refers to any risk associated with faerie, or the colours worn by fools, I have no idea. My mum just used to say it "wasn't done".

Andrea


14 Dec 03 - 11:25 AM (#1072027)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Dress colours??
From: Helen

We used to be told, here in Oz, "Blue and green should never be seen, unless there's a colour in between".

Helen


14 Dec 03 - 11:48 AM (#1072047)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Dress colours??
From: Celtaddict

In Russia, the prostitutes used to wear red stockings to advertise.
This thread begs to creep.


14 Dec 03 - 12:46 PM (#1072106)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Dress colours??
From: White Dove

Creep it may but I am chuffed with all these ideas!I just popped back to say thanks for the response and may now feel a little coy wearing red you knows this Christmas :-)

Cheers Roz


14 Dec 03 - 05:56 PM (#1072320)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Dress colours??
From: Joybell

Yes Helen we did too, but the Faerie Queen rhyme was still holding out against the "blue and green without a colour in between" in 1950. Only just because by the time I had my own kids the Faeries had gone. Sigh!


14 Dec 03 - 07:41 PM (#1072441)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Dress colours??
From: Bob Bolton

G'day JennieG,

Those old red (up to 19th C) flannel petticoats ... or other undergarments ... were warmer because they were dyed using mercury compounds, which set up a low-level irritation of the skin - sensed as a 'warming'. They kept you warmer ... and probably killed you a few years earlier!

Regards,

Bob


14 Dec 03 - 07:44 PM (#1072443)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Dress colours??
From: The Fooles Troupe

... and of course some guys wear BROWN trousers... :-)


14 Dec 03 - 07:46 PM (#1072445)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Dress colours??
From: GUEST

Bob Bolton, you know everything! This principle is still in use with various chemical "rubs" for arthritis and such, many containing menthol.
I wonder if the dyed things also had a slightly coarser texture or "fluffed" a bit more?


14 Dec 03 - 08:03 PM (#1072458)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Dress colours??
From: The Walrus

Re: the earlier references to 'Light Bobs'.

'Light Bobs' is a traditional nickname for soldiers of 'Light Infantry' regiments and extended to 'Light' Cavalry (Light Dragoons, Hussars, Lancers etc.).

Walrus


14 Dec 03 - 08:31 PM (#1072484)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Dress colours??
From: Joybell

Well it's off with the red flannel drawers then! I want to live forever.


14 Dec 03 - 10:41 PM (#1072542)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Dress colours??
From: Malcolm Douglas

Thanks for the clarification on Light Bob, Walrus. We can take that as settled, then.


15 Dec 03 - 03:10 AM (#1072605)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Dress colours??
From: GUEST,JTT

I'll dye my petticoat a burning red
And round the world I'll earn my bread
Until my parents shall wish me dead
Is go dtéigh tú, a mhúirnín, slán.

Makes it pretty clear what's in question, doesn't it? On the other hand, the women of the west of Ireland wored "red petticoats" (red wool skirts, dyed with a particular kind of lichen to make them a rich red) as their normal costume, and heaven knows these were deeply respectable women.


15 Dec 03 - 03:15 AM (#1072608)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Dress colours??
From: fat B****rd

I'm with you, Mouldy. "Red'at no drawers" was a phrase I heard in my North Lincs. youth.


15 Dec 03 - 05:00 AM (#1072664)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Dress colours??
From: Hrothgar

My mum told me (and I never asked how she knew) that red shoes were known as "nigger catchers" during the Second World War - around Brisbane, anyway.

The reason was that the common ladies who frequented the areas to which US negro servicemen were restricted allegedly wore red shoes to advertise their calling.


15 Dec 03 - 12:19 PM (#1072983)
Subject: RE: Folklore: Dress colours??
From: fogie

The City Waits used to sing a song called "give me my yellow hose again" which was a lament for the single life in wedlock. I note Martha Rowdens stockings are Green and Yellow. I dont know there's a link you understand, but maybe one of their legs tends to be fairy, and the other longs for action?