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19 Dec 03 - 10:50 AM (#1076174) Subject: Pengiun Folk Songs re-issued From: DMcG EFDSS have finally re-issued what was the Penguin Book of English Folk Songs under the name 'Classic English Folk Songs'. "Revised by Malcolm Douglas", no less. I know it has been mentioned in other threads, but I received by quarterly EFDSS bumph today and there was the announcement. Congratulations, Malcolm, for your endurance! Copies can be ordered from Cecil Sharp House, even though their web site hasn't yet been updated to list this one. |
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19 Dec 03 - 10:59 AM (#1076181) Subject: RE: Pengiun Folk Songs re-issued From: GUEST,MMario whew! Sounds like a lot of work Malcolm! |
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19 Dec 03 - 11:09 AM (#1076195) Subject: RE: Pengiun Folk Songs re-issued From: Mary in Kentucky Congratulations Malcolm. |
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19 Dec 03 - 11:28 AM (#1076209) Subject: RE: Pengiun Folk Songs re-issued From: Guy Wolff My copy is so old and used I would love to get this. Do let us know how. All the best , GUY |
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19 Dec 03 - 12:16 PM (#1076251) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Joe Offer Malcolm, they couldn't have picked a better man to do the job. Congratulations! -Joe Offer- |
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19 Dec 03 - 12:41 PM (#1076278) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Skipper Jack My copy is so old that the pages are yellow. I shall certainly get a copy. |
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19 Dec 03 - 12:54 PM (#1076288) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Malcolm Douglas The whole thing took rather longer than I'd expected when I first got involved -more than a year ago- but the nature of the project changed during that time. It was originally intended as a straight reprint, but it quickly became clear that there was an opportunity to tie up loose ends and to add background material in order to make it a genuinely new edition. Although Bert Lloyd promised in his Introduction that editorial intervention in the texts would be indicated and sourced, in the event that didn't always happen, and I spent quite a lot of time pinning down those details. Some questions remain unanswered, inevitably: where did the blacksmith's "good black billycock" come from? How did Robert Jackson wind up on board the Ship in Distress? Obviously, thinking has changed on a number of things since 1959, and I've tried to take that into account where possible. There are a lot of references to broadside examples, for instance, which simply were not available to the original editors but which can now be found, with patience, from a comfy chair at home. It wasn't until the early Summer that I was able to spend time at the Vaughan Williams Library, but that time was invaluable, as was Malcolm Taylor's advice and encouragement. Whatever people eventually think of the book (I have, after all, really only increased the size of the boring stuff at the back that nobody reads) it is a great deal better than it would have been without his help. David Atkinson's new Bibliography is a vast improvement on the original one, but that's the only instance where we've dropped any part of the original; for the rest, we've just added to what was already there. There are biographical details of the majority of the singers, too, which reflects contemporary interest in placing traditional song in a wider and more meaningful context. Some of those are a bit sketchy, of course, and there is room for a lot more work on that. Still Growing and Classic English Folk Songs (and the Mummers Play book of last year) represent a significant move back into publishing for EFDSS, and this time around they've gone for professional production values; it makes the books a little more expensive, but they are also attractive, well-designed and properly made. The pages won't go yellow and fall out. We'd hoped to have it out in good time for Christmas, but Julian, our music-setter, had a heart attack at a crucial moment and we missed that deadline. Fortunately, he is well on the way to a full recovery. He spotted some errors in the original "Penguin" notation, incidentally, that I hadn't been aware of; and those have been corrected. It's a relatively small print run in the first instance (1,000). If we can shift that lot, it will encourage the Society, which has very little money, to take the risk on further projects. Malcolm Taylor would like to produce a second selection from Sharp's collections, this time concentrating on the Appalachian material; and I haven't given up on the proposal to reissue Frank Purslow's selections from the Hammond-Gardiner MSS (which is how I got involved in all this in the first place), though that would have to be a two-parter. We'll have to see. There's a genuine will at EFDSS to make more material available, but financial practicalities inevitably loom large. I haven't actually seen hard copy of the book yet (I gather that the consignment has just in the last day or two arrived at Cecil Sharp House) and will probably spend Christmas spotting mistakes that we missed during proof-reading, and wishing I'd said certain things differently. Oh well. I've put up an image of the front cover (the next-to-last version; the final print will be cleaner) at the South Riding Network site for anyone who is interested. See if you can spot who all the people are. http://www.folk-network.com/products/penguin.html |
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19 Dec 03 - 01:00 PM (#1076290) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: greg stephens One of the big joys of the original was the great notes at the back. It is good news that any updating and correcting has been done by Malcolm Douglas. All of us here on Mudcat will know just how good his research is, and know that this is indeed the boy for the job. However, I am a bit disappointed the paper is not going to go brown. That was definiteily the best feature of the old edition. So authentic.so traditional, so...folky. |
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19 Dec 03 - 01:13 PM (#1076295) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Ed. I have, after all, really only increased the size of the boring stuff at the back that nobody reads Believe me, Malcolm, some of us spend most of our time in that section of song books. Congratulations, as everyone else has said. In terms of your 'name them' challenge, I'll confess that I don't know the man in the middle. Thanks for all your hard work. Ed |
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19 Dec 03 - 01:20 PM (#1076298) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Folkiedave So that's what you have been doing!!! Regards, Dave www.collectorsfolk.co.uk |
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19 Dec 03 - 01:35 PM (#1076308) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Q (Frank Staplin) I will be glad to see a fresh and authoritatively updated copy. A useful reference work could be made from the combined posts in Mudcat of Malcolm Douglas (and of course Bruce O and others). The browning is the result of sulf(ph)ur in the paper and leads to disintegration and eventual loss of the book unless costly conservation treatment is applied. I can't recall when paper manufacture entered this phase but I think it mostly affected material between 1860 and 1940 that was made with the cheaper sulfur-whitening process. Newer book papers are free (mostly) of this problem. |
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19 Dec 03 - 01:38 PM (#1076310) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Q (Frank Staplin) Just noticed that my copy is dated 1959, so the sulfur-paper problem extended later than i thought. |
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19 Dec 03 - 02:14 PM (#1076331) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Malcolm Douglas Well into the 1980s, unfortunately, and often coupled with shoddy "perfect binding" that ensured the complete disintegration of books if you actually read them. Even now, you don't get acid-free paper automatically; I think it costs more, but it's worth it. The chap in the middle is one of the singers featured in the book. He's in Sunday Best for a portrait at the local photographers, though; his working clothes were a bit different. |
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19 Dec 03 - 02:26 PM (#1076336) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: The Borchester Echo Mine's from the 1968 reprint. And yes, it's yellow. It was after all the time of Mellow Yellow and Yellow Submarine. It cost 5 shillings (that's a quarter of a £GB. £15 for a new one? Well, I'll think about it... People on the cover...well, Eliza Carthy obviously and a young Ewan MacColl, I think. But the chap in Sunday best...Phil Tanner, Joseph Taylor...? |
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19 Dec 03 - 02:28 PM (#1076337) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Peter T. For foreigners, does this mean that Penguin are not involved? (My copy looks like how I feel). Will it be distributed? yours, Peter T. |
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19 Dec 03 - 02:36 PM (#1076340) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Malcolm Douglas No involvement from Penguin, which is why there had to be a new title. The rights in the material passed to EFDSS, but not the name or the original layouts. I think that the intention is to concentrate on direct sales (the profit margin is drastically reduced if you use commercial distributors) but specialist retailers are likely to carry it. In the USA, I should think that Dick Greenhaus would be your man. |
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19 Dec 03 - 02:57 PM (#1076348) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Ed. I understand the preference fof direct sales, but I'd of thought that you'd be missing a (relatively) big market if you don't allow the stalls at next years festivals to stock it |
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19 Dec 03 - 03:05 PM (#1076352) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Nerd My hat's off to you, Malcolm, and I look forward to seeing the book! I have two different copies of the Penguin Book both of which are not so much yellow as a rich coffee color by now! |
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19 Dec 03 - 03:20 PM (#1076358) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Malcolm Douglas Oh, I'd certainly expect it be on stalls (specialist retailers) at festivals; I mean that you are pretty unlikely to find it at W H Smith! |
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19 Dec 03 - 04:03 PM (#1076390) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Anglo For the US market, I am sure Dick G will carry it at Camsco. Andy's Front Hall is likely to, and for certs it'll be available from CDSS, which after all did start life as the American arm of the EFDSS or whatever it was back then, launched by old Cecil himself. |
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19 Dec 03 - 04:53 PM (#1076413) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Guy Wolff Do we get signed copies through the mudcat ??? Ha . Sorry Im a showman /capitolist type . With 1000 printed I want one as soon as I can get it.. Oh Dick >>>>>>>>><><><><><>< All the best , Guy |
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19 Dec 03 - 06:53 PM (#1076481) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: RolyH Well done Malcolm. I've got a couple of copies of the original and have put a couple up for auction in the past but this is really good news. Thankyou |
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19 Dec 03 - 08:51 PM (#1076560) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull How much is it? |
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19 Dec 03 - 08:54 PM (#1076562) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: John Routledge £14.99 + £1.50 postage John |
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19 Dec 03 - 08:57 PM (#1076563) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull thanks John. |
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20 Dec 03 - 08:34 AM (#1076766) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Cllr I was quite excited to see this thread as I have been after this book for a couple of years, However I was not as thrilled as my wife Carol who let out a little squeal of delight when she saw the thread title. She was consequently very disappointed when I told her the book was not penguin folk songs but a book on folk songs published by Penguin publishers. Cllr |
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20 Dec 03 - 10:32 AM (#1076805) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: nutty Keep on looking ....there is an "English Book of Penguin Folksongs" the brainchild of a Mr L Barker, I believe. |
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22 Dec 03 - 01:15 PM (#1077847) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: GUEST,Ed Refresh, for no other reason than that you should buy this book. |
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22 Dec 03 - 01:30 PM (#1077861) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull I reckon The Music Room [and similar places], would be interested in selling this book, they have a book section in there branches, and do stalls at festivals. [i'm not connected to them in any way, just reckon it might be an idea]. |
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23 Dec 03 - 12:51 AM (#1078219) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: karen k Oooh! Oooooh! Just seeing this. Have an original and like others mentioned above it is yellowed and falling apart. I'll have to get one when they cross the pond. Or, maybe I'll wait until I'm in England at the end of March through the middle of April and bring it back myself. Great job, Malcolm and others. |
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23 Dec 03 - 02:28 AM (#1078242) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: GUEST,Pavane Yes, I can confirm the existence of Les Barkers book, as I do have a copy of that, as well as two old copies of the Penguin book (browning well!). I will look forward to getting a copy of the updated notes (The interesting bit!). I think most of the songs in the book are now very well known, it was an excellent selection. Incidentally, the penguin is (presumably) one of the few birds with a Welsh name - meaning white head. Named by an early explorer, I believe. |
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23 Dec 03 - 06:21 AM (#1078310) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Joybell Great. Congratulations Malcolm. I always read the bits at the back first and keep going back to them. We'll be after a copy too. Thank you Joy |
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23 Dec 03 - 07:32 PM (#1078859) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: dick greenhaus If a sufficiency of interested folks let me know of their interest, I'll be able to order it in and sell it at a significant discount. dick greenhaus CAMSCO Music |
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23 Dec 03 - 07:36 PM (#1078865) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Bill D is a sufficiency anything like a plethora? I expect there will be a market... |
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24 Dec 03 - 07:34 PM (#1079429) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: GUEST Hooray! Went down to C# house today and bought a copy, together with a copy of "Still Growing". Now wrapped up as xmas prezzie for Mary (though she's thumbed though most of it in the car on the way back...) We also had the pleasure of meeting Malcolm Taylor the C# house Librarian, for the first time. The book looks pretty good so far... Anahata |
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25 Dec 03 - 06:59 PM (#1079899) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Mary Humphreys Have now got the aforementioned Christmas presents. I can't wait for all the festivities and cooking duties to be out of the way so I can immerse myself into these two books. The best Christmas present ever! Many thanks to Malcolm and everyone who contributed to the re-issue, long overdue. My old Penguin book will still be used, but only because I won't want to scribble all over the new one like I did with the old one. The new one has biographical information about the song-carriers who contributed the songs. It also has much more extensive information about the texts - just one example, Lord Thomas & Lady Eleanor, contributed by Mrs Pond - there is at least as much information again printed about the text and its origins which was not included in the original volume.I now want to see all the CJS and Hammond texts that were used to compile this song - which has been in my repertoire for years, and which my children grew up with as one of their favourite songs. |
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28 Dec 03 - 04:54 AM (#1080827) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: pavane It strikes me that a great accompaniment would be a set of CDs with each song (the version as printed) recorded by a Mudcatter? Possibly with the full set of tunes as abcs as well? I am sure that Mrs Pavane would be prepared to contribute a track or two, as she has sung them in the past. It would probably need to be about a 5 CD set or series. What do you think? If so, I would like to stake a claim on one, possibly All things are quite silent. |
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28 Dec 03 - 06:37 AM (#1080851) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Jeanie Excellent suggestion, Pavane ! I'm definitely up for that ! If we are suggesting which song we would like to contribute, then my choice would be "Long Lankin". I do hope this idea takes off. - jeanie |
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28 Dec 03 - 07:51 AM (#1080870) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: pavane Of course, it might take some time to organise, and to obtain permissions where necessary. I don't have the experience and knowledge myself. |
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28 Dec 03 - 01:55 PM (#1081007) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: open mike what's EFDSS? |
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28 Dec 03 - 02:20 PM (#1081026) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Ed. English Folk Dance and Song Society. See www.efdss.org for more information. |
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28 Dec 03 - 02:25 PM (#1081032) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: pavane I have started a new thread with the suggestion of a companion CD |
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28 Dec 03 - 02:57 PM (#1081045) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: GUEST,John J...notaguest I've just been into Waterstone's and they tell me it's out of print. Hrmph. J |
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28 Dec 03 - 03:07 PM (#1081051) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Ed. John J, Re-read this thread; Malcolm Douglas's entries in particular. Then go and ask for 'Classic English Folk Songs' as published by EFDSS. They will (hopefully) know what you mean. |
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28 Dec 03 - 03:19 PM (#1081056) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Malcolm Douglas ISNB is 0-85418-188-1; that should be all they need to know (though the right title helps!) As I mentioned, though, I don't think that it's going through the commercial distributors, so it will probably be quicker to order directly from EFDSS (contact details available through several links earlier in this thread). On the other hand, if Waterstones receives enough specific requiries it may feel obliged to carry some, which would make a change from all those books about jazz they stock and never seem to sell. |
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28 Dec 03 - 05:24 PM (#1081110) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Emma B I've still got the companion 12" LP recorded by A L Lloyd on the Collector label - it would be nice if this was reissued on CD |
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28 Dec 03 - 05:47 PM (#1081119) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Malcolm Douglas It has been, earlier this year; together with the later EP he also made for Collector. Entirely by coincidence; Fellside records, who now own the Collector back-catalogue, weren't aware of plans to re-publish the book. The master tapes are long lost, but Paul Adams has done a good job re-mastering from vinyl copies. It's re-issued as A. L. Lloyd: England and Her Traditional Songs. A Selection from the Penguin Book of English Folk Songs (Fellside FECD173. http://www.fellside.com/ |
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28 Dec 03 - 07:55 PM (#1081185) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Nigel Parsons Surely this is one that should be available via Mudcat. I, for one, would not object to a slight hike in price if I knew 'The 'Cat' was getting a percentage Nigel |
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29 Dec 03 - 06:11 AM (#1081405) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: John J Thanks all....I'll drop in at Waterstones (regretably the ONLY bookshop around here now, all the others have closed) with the ISBN. Cheers, John |
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29 Dec 03 - 07:44 PM (#1081940) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Emma B Thank you Malcolm for that information/good news - now where did I put my birthday wish list ....... |
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09 Jan 04 - 03:29 AM (#1089247) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Pete_Standing Now I know why I've never been able to find it second-hand in a book shop, most people who have one copy then got a second! It's kind of ironic that the cheaper paper-whitening process referred to earlier should have made the pages go yellow (hey isn't sulphur yellow?). Trivia aside, this is really great news and well done and many thanks to Malcolm. There are plenty of other books with folk songs out of print. Amongst those that I have borrowed from the library in Oxford are two by Cecil Sharp, at least one by Frank Kidson, another by Lucy Broad-whats-her-name - I was a wee bit upset that someone had chosen to scribble and makes notes in some of them, if I hear "Froggy Goes a Courting" at Oxford FC, my suspicions will be raised. Once again, thanks Malcolm. You've made it a little bit easier for those of us who can't just pop in to the EFDSS or afford to buy a series of CD's like the "Voice of the People" to enjoy some of the old songs. |
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16 Jan 04 - 07:56 AM (#1094044) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Watson Our copy arrived in the post yesterday, ordered by post directly from EFDSS. I'm going to be spending endless hours going through all the songs I'm singing wrongly! Thanks Malcolm. Nobody with an interest in English traditional song should be without this book. |
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16 Jan 04 - 09:28 AM (#1094102) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: John Routledge Thanks Malcolm. Have just ordered a copy by telephone from Cecil Sharpe House. Phone 020 748 2206. Ask for The library and give card number. Book despatched same day. Now watch UK postal system. Happy reading singing and learning!! |
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16 Jan 04 - 09:30 AM (#1094104) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: John Routledge SORRY Phone number is 020 7485 2206. Must proof read |
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20 Jan 04 - 10:59 PM (#1097533) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Malcolm Douglas I've been asked to mention that the charge for postage and packing is now £2.00; it turns out that £1.50 was a pre-Christmas offer. There's now a review at Musical Traditions: Classic English Folk Songs Rod Stradling has some (perfectly reasonable) reservations about the way we approached the revision, but 'restoring' the texts to their unmediated forms and quoting all the material on which Bert Lloyd drew for his modifications would have, at a conservative estimate, more than doubled the size of the book; it simply wasn't an option. I can't expect anyone who hasn't spent several months exploring all the background (I may be the only person who has done this in recent years) to appreciate the extent of it all. On the whole, Rod approves of the material I've added (if not of my introduction, which was always likely to fall a bit uncomfortably between two or more stools, aimed as it was both at new readers and at people long since familiar with 'Penguin', some of whom will also be aware of at least some of the editorial issues involved) and of David Atkinson's new bibliography. I value Rod's opinion, and am rather relieved that I got off so lightly, and that he recommends it as "an essential purchase". Couldn't reasonably ask for more. |
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21 Jan 04 - 01:20 AM (#1097606) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: DADGBE I also had the 1959 edition - long gone now. It was a gem. Thank you Malcom for your hard work. I'll buy one from you Dick. |
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21 Jan 04 - 05:01 PM (#1098192) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: John Routledge Malcolm - I loved your introduction. To me it tried to set out the reality. Following my order from Cecil Sharp House at 2.15pm Friday book arrived at 9.30am Saturday. Very traditional service :0) |
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22 Jan 04 - 04:22 PM (#1098994) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Bob Bolton G'day Malcom, I just got the Mulga Wire (Inc. Singabout) review copy (Sydney, Australia ). It was addressed to Colin Fong, my co-editor for Mulga Wire, but I'm sole editor of Singabout - the folklore section, so I've snaffled it for review!) It was accompanied by your Press Release ... details of direct sales &c ... is there likely to be a direct distributor in Australia? ... If not, do I just suggest that punters send off an Australian currency cheque for the equivalent of £16.99 ... or will overseas postage be higher? ... Can we of the Antipodes order directly from the EFDSS web site? ... In what currency? BTW: It looks bloody good - nice layout, notes, lovely paper and feel ... as well as all those classic English songs! Regards, Bob Bolton |
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22 Jan 04 - 05:19 PM (#1099052) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Malcolm Douglas Best thing is to email Felicity Greenland at EFDSS for details; fortunately I have nothing to do with distribution or sales! felicity.greenland@efdss.org |
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29 Jan 04 - 11:54 AM (#1104376) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Roberto I've just received my copy of the book from EFDSS. I am very pleased with it. I have the Penguin's, that I've had to bind. I remember that when I bought it, many years ago, there also was a Penguin Book of Carols. Was it a good book? Is it still available? My congratulations to Malcolm Douglas. Roberto |
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29 Jan 04 - 12:30 PM (#1104409) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: GUEST,JohnB My old copy has no cover, so I had to look inside, it is a 1961 reprint of the 1959 original. It was sitting on the shelf next to the Penguin Book of Canadian Folk Songs. It's not that I am organized, it's just that the books are about the same size. I sure will be buying the new one, but I will have to buy another pack of toilet rolls to interleave in what looks like MOST of the pages. Well done Malcolm, JohnB |
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29 Jan 04 - 10:09 PM (#1104824) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Malcolm Douglas There were three Penguin carol books; The Penguin Book of Carols (ed. Ian Bradley); The Penguin Book of Christmas Carols (ed. Elizabeth Poston); and The Second Penguin Book of Christmas Carols (ed. Elizabeth Poston): the last being a collection of carols from American sources. So far as I know they are all out of print, the Bradley was I think last issued in 2000. Search results via BookFinder.com: Penguin Book of Carols You can also find second hand copies via Amazon. |
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17 Feb 04 - 03:54 PM (#1117949) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: dick greenhaus Hurrah! (or maybe Hooray!) I finally received a shipment of Classic English Folk Songs for resale. The discount is less than I can often provide, but that's 'cos EFDSS doesn't discount as heavily as some other publishers. Anyhow, you can get a copy for $26 (US) which is a bit less than the $28.50 that EFDSS charges. Shipping within the US is $2.75 (first class mail) or $1.50 (media mail.) I don't know what shipping charges overseas would be, but I can find out if anyone's interested--EFDSS charges $2.85 for shipping within the UK. It's a nice edition (thanx, Malcolm). You can order by E-mail, PM, or phone (800/548-FOLK <3655>). The most secure way to order over the net is to send the 8 of the 16 digits of a credit card number via PM and the remaining 8 digits, along with the expiry date, by E-mail. dick greenhaus CAMSCO Music dick@camsco.com |
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19 Feb 04 - 12:17 AM (#1118873) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: dick greenhaus Just to point out that Malcolm's work was in no way inconsequential. The 154 page volume has over 75 pages of copius, literate, interesting notes. |
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19 Feb 04 - 12:46 AM (#1118889) Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued From: Stilly River Sage Dick, I got your message that it was in--sorry I didn't respond before. I was on the road and on someone else's slow computer. I'll send a PM later and work out the purchase. SRS |
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25 Feb 04 - 03:57 AM (#1123237) Subject: Folklore: Classic English Folk Songs From: Shanghaiceltic The EFDSS has republished the old tome the Penguin Book of Englsih Folk Songs under the title 'Classic English Folk Songs' I just noticed the mention of it in the latest fRoots mag. Go to www.efdss.org and look at 'Mail order' I moved this message here from another thread on the same topic. |
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25 Feb 04 - 04:12 AM (#1123245) Subject: RE: Classic English (Penguin) Folk Songs re-issued From: Joe Offer I got my copy today, and it really is a nice revision. The $26 (US) price tag was a bit steep for a 154-page paperback, but I think supporting a notable reissue like this is worthwhile. If only 1,000 copies were printed, it's no wonder that it's expensive. Malcolm's background notes are up to his usual standard of excellence. It's hard to imagine that anybody could improve upon the work of R. Vaughan Williams and A.L. Lloyd, but I think Malcolm did it. Nice work, Malcolm. -Joe Offer- Malcolm posted this link above. Be sure to take a look, and follow the links to reviews. |
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25 Feb 04 - 04:18 AM (#1123253) Subject: RE: Classic English (Penguin) Folk Songs re-issued From: greg stephens Well, I've just got my copy. I notice that Malcolm Douglas has failed to correct Bert Lloyd's ridiculous assertion that Walney Island is in Westmorland. As any skoolboy knows, it was in Lancashire when Bert was writing, and has since been reallocated to Cumbria. I really think Mr Douglas should do a bit of basic research before putting pen to paper. (PS only joking, Malcolm) PPS It could be,of course, that Bert L was only quoting a geographically challenged source singer, but that case this should be covered in a footnote. |
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25 Feb 04 - 04:38 AM (#1123261) Subject: RE: Classic English (Penguin) Folk Songs re-issued From: greg stephens Another point: earlier in this thread there is some speculation as to who the pictures on the front, and I dont think it was ever answered. It looks like McColl on the right(is this a joke on Malcolm's part, as he claimed to be Scottish?). The middle looks vaguely like Phil Tanner, but I dont think it is(unless this is Malcolm having another joke, as Tanner was Welsh?). Can someone identify these for sure? |
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25 Feb 04 - 04:50 AM (#1123266) Subject: RE: Classic English (Penguin) Folk Songs re-issued From: Joe Offer Greg - Click, and ye shall find - and it's an interesting review, too. -Joe Offer- |
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25 Feb 04 - 06:23 AM (#1123311) Subject: RE: Classic English (Penguin) Folk Songs re-issued From: greg stephens Thanks for the lnk, Joe. To save people time, the answer to my request for identification of all three pictures on the cover: they are Eliza Carthy, Henry Burstow,and Ewan McColl. An interesting set. I can see why Burstow(example of source singer that supplies the contents of the book);Carthy(most successful young person who sings material out of the book); but why McColl? The book is not about fantastic sonwriters, slobbering adulators of Stalin, or great interpreters of Scottish ballads. |
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25 Feb 04 - 08:44 AM (#1123400) Subject: RE: Classic English (Penguin) Folk Songs re-issued From: Malcolm Douglas I fear that Geography was never my strong suit, and it doesn't seem to have been Bert's, either. I did correct a few cases where he had mixed up Lancashire and Yorkshire. He also placed Casterton in Lancashire; I put it back in Westmorland in line with contemporary references (first decade 20th century); nowadays I suppose it's Cumbria (though I think it has a Lancashire post code?). Political and administrative boundaries are rather a minefield! I missed Walney Island, so thanks for pointing that out. I'm in the process of putting together a series of webpages for additions and corrections to the book, and will add the information. "Additions" will eventually include supplementary material that there wasn't room to print in full, and further stuff that I've become aware of since, such as a late 18th century broadside text of One Night as I lay on My Bed that I didn't find in time to mention in the notes. A number of people were involved in consultation for the cover design (including me; but obviously the final decision was made by the people who were paying for it). The intention was to make the point that folk song has a long history but is alive and well, belonging to (and sung by) young people as well as older generations. This is not a new approach, but in the past has resulted in cover designs featuring young female guitar players dressed in the fashion of the day, which look dated almost immediately. I wanted to avoid that insofar as was possible, and not tie the design too much to any one particular period. You need iconic images, though, of one sort or another. The pictures of Eliza and Henry were my suggestions (I particularly wanted to use a picture of Eliza singing and playing fiddle. Guitars are not compulsory!), while the photos of Ewan -and Peggy Seeger in the background- came, if I recall correctly, from the VWML. While these last have no direct connection with the contents of the book, they are certainly iconic figures associated with the revival. The photo of Eliza is identified on the back cover, as it's recent and copyright; ideally the other pictures should have been listed too, but design was finalised at quite a late stage in production and those details were overlooked. |
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25 Feb 04 - 09:01 PM (#1123963) Subject: RE: Classic English (Penguin) Folk Songs re-issued From: dick greenhaus Greg- You may be one of many who don't like MacColl's songs, or one of the very many who don't like his politics, but it's asinine to deny his vast importance in performing, collecting and promulgating traditional music. |
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26 Feb 04 - 06:19 AM (#1124194) Subject: Classic English Folksongs(Penguin) From: greg stephens The thread on the subject of this re-issue(the book is excellent, by the way, everybody buy a copy) is closed with a big red notice. Anybody got any idea why? Havent seen any signs of racist trolls, personal abuse or whatever. Messages from multiple threads combined. Messages below are from a new thread. The original thread must have been closed by mistake, and I was offline last night because my phone line was dead. |
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26 Feb 04 - 02:51 PM (#1124552) Subject: RE: Classic English Folksongs(Penguin) From: treewind Beats me. The reference to Ewan McColl hardly merited closing the thread. Surely Penguin books didn't object to their name being mentioned parenthetically in the title? Also fairly recent from EFDSS is "Still Growing" well worth a look and we've got a new song out of it! Anahata |
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26 Feb 04 - 03:36 PM (#1124596) Subject: RE: Classic English Folksongs(Penguin) From: dick greenhaus And just to remind folks, CAMSCO is still accepting orders. $26 (US) + $1.50 media mail postage. Call 800/548-FOLK (3655) |
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26 Feb 04 - 05:31 PM (#1124707) Subject: RE: Classic English Folksongs(Penguin) From: Ed. "Still Growing" well worth a look and we've got a new song out of it! An old song surely... :-) Agree. Seems very strange to close the thread. Someone must have made a mistake, I think |
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27 Feb 04 - 03:03 AM (#1124976) Subject: RE: Classic English (Penguin) Folk Songs re-issued From: Joe Offer Click here to get to the EFDSS book order page, which includes information about Classic English Folk Songs and Still Growing, collection of fifty songs from Sharp's original manuscripts. -Joe Offer-
-Joe Offer- |
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27 Feb 04 - 03:27 AM (#1124981) Subject: RE: Classic English (Penguin) Folk Songs re-issued From: greg stephens Dick Greenhaus: I dont like Ewan McColl's politics, this is true. But dont say I dont like his songwriting: I sing them regularly, and as you will see in the post you were referring to, I actually referred to him as a fantastic songwriter. I just thought using his photo in the context of this particular book of English folksongs was questionable: what exactly was the implication? Why not Bert Lloyd himself, for example? I am disappointed this thread was closed by accident: I had a much more interesting conspiracy theory, in which the power-that-be closed all threads where someone criticised a Stalinist. |
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27 Feb 04 - 05:48 PM (#1125414) Subject: RE: Classic English (Penguin) Folk Songs re-issued From: dick greenhaus First, conspiracies. Sorry, but the thread was closed by accident (mine.) Obviously, I've re-opened it. The folksong Revival in England was kicked off by Lonnie Donegan, who got a significant portion of UK's teenagers picking guitars nd singing folksongs (motly from the US.) MacColl was running a folk popular club (in London, I think)and used all of his considerable inflence to insist that singers perform music from their own neck of the woods. I'd have absolutely no objection to having Bert Lloyd on the cover, but Ewan seems equally appropriate to me, at least. |
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01 Mar 04 - 06:38 PM (#1127295) Subject: RE: Classic English (Penguin) Folk Songs re-issued From: Tattie Bogle Thanks to the info in this thread, my daughter has ordered me a copy from EFDSS. Apparently the lady taking the order thought she sounded a bit young for this (she's only 26!) "No, it's for my Mum, she's a real old folkie" daughter said. "Ah that explains it" says lady from EFDSS! But I have been a "folkie" since my teenage years, having come up through the 60s revival, certainly since much younger than my daughter is now! |
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01 Mar 04 - 07:28 PM (#1127334) Subject: RE: Classic English (Penguin) Folk Songs re-issued From: Malcolm Douglas I was 16 when I bought my copy of Penguin (in 1971). I have to say that I'll be disappointed if the market for the new edition is restricted to people around my own age, though obviously a fair proportion of initial sales are likely to be replacements and "upgrades", and I expect the lady at EFDSS has mostly been taking orders of that kind; it's a revision, after all, not a new book (though it is a lot more detailed than the original) and it will sell, to begin with, largely on the strength of its history. I do very much hope that younger people, to whom the material may not be familiar except through recorded arrangements of it, will gain something worthwhile from going back a little closer to the sources; and that this edition will also sell on its own merits as well as on those of its predecessor. That is in the hands of fate, I suppose. We'll just have to see. |
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30 Jan 05 - 02:19 PM (#1393424) Subject: RE: Classic English (Penguin) Folk Songs re-issued From: GUEST,Tunesmith Does the book contain any extra information - to that which appeared in the orginal book - about one of the key source " folk singers" William Bolton. I used to live in Southport, where Bolton was living when interviewed, and was always interested to know more about him. |
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30 Jan 05 - 04:23 PM (#1393562) Subject: RE: Classic English (Penguin) Folk Songs re-issued From: Malcolm Douglas Yes, it does. There was only room for a fairly short summary of the available information, though references are given to sources for more, including the Gilchrist MSS collection at the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library (Cecil Sharp House, London) which contains documents relating to Miss Gilchrist's meetings with him, and some songs written out in his own hand. |
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30 Jan 05 - 04:35 PM (#1393576) Subject: RE: Classic English (Penguin) Folk Songs re-issued From: Desert Dancer Malcolm, is your web site with supplementary material (mentioned above, 25 Feb 04) live somewhere? ~ Becky in Tucson |
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31 Jan 05 - 05:06 PM (#1394758) Subject: RE: Classic English (Penguin) Folk Songs re-issued From: Desert Dancer refreshing the question |
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31 Jan 05 - 07:18 PM (#1394954) Subject: RE: Classic English (Penguin) Folk Songs re-issued From: Malcolm Douglas The trouble with a work in progress is that, by definition, it's never finished: and therefore never quite ready to be sent out into the world. It's high time, though, that I put up what there is of it. There's a lot more unfinished, to be found and to add, but it's a start. http://www.folk-network.com/miscellany/penguin/ I'm deliberately avoiding lists of links to websites of the sort I've often provided here, and I'm being very careful about copyright. Anyway, you'll see what I mean. I won't be putting up any other external links until I've run it past Malcolm Taylor of the VWML, so this is a "preview", if you like. Where there is staff notation, clicking on it will play a midi. |
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31 Jan 05 - 09:55 PM (#1395170) Subject: RE: Classic English (Penguin) Folk Songs re-issued From: Desert Dancer Thanks, Malcolm! I know the problem with that "work in progress" feeling. ~ Becky in Tucson |
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01 Feb 05 - 03:02 PM (#1395939) Subject: RE: Classic English (Penguin) Folk Songs re-issued From: greg stephens Malcolm Douglas: thanks very much for publishing that additional stuff here. This is a great way to add up-to-date research as it becomes available. |