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30 Dec 03 - 06:09 AM (#1082228) Subject: BS: New Threat to Security From: curmudgeon Be sure not to let the authorities see you with an almanac! |
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30 Dec 03 - 09:51 AM (#1082320) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: Kim C I heard this on the radio this morning. How silly. What's next... Tom Clancy novels? |
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30 Dec 03 - 10:02 AM (#1082327) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: McGrath of Harlow Back in the old days in the USSR they didn't publish a phone book. I imagine they were thinking very much along these lines. Better be pretty careful about carrying an A-Z street map book with you when you are out and about...And as for asking directions to train stations or public buildings, you'd need to be crazy. |
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30 Dec 03 - 10:20 AM (#1082334) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: Willie-O I think the best source of this kind of information, which has been publically available since the very early days on the Net, is the annual CIA World Factbook or whatever they call it...so cops should be suspicious of anyone carrying a laptop computer as well as an almanac or map, especially when combined with apparent surveillance (i.e., trying to figure out where you are going). Jeesh. |
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30 Dec 03 - 10:41 AM (#1082347) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: Rapparee It's not the local cops, it's someone at the FBI who's overly zealous and is making them look damned foolish. God, my library must be the most subversive place around! We've got all sorts of almanacs and gazetteers and such -- even the CIA fact book! And I've read many of them! Yes! And I don't deny it! BWAHAHAHAHA! What I have is a mental picture of Granpa pickin' up the last year's almanac and headin' out for a quiet session in The Little House Out Back.... |
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30 Dec 03 - 10:46 AM (#1082353) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: CarolC There goes the whole travel guide industry, I guess. |
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30 Dec 03 - 11:30 AM (#1082396) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: mack/misophist A couple of decades ago, it was necessary to have actual hands on law enforcement experience to advance in the FBI. That was changed as being 'too restrictive'. Today, any dolt who shares the president's fantasies can have a corner office. |
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30 Dec 03 - 01:08 PM (#1082493) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: Kim C Since when do terrorists blow things up according to the phases of the moon? |
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30 Dec 03 - 01:22 PM (#1082505) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: Joe Offer I worked 25 years as an investigator for the U.S. Government, and 3 years in intelligence work for the U.S. Army. We looked for lots of little clues that would seem silly tyo a lay person - but they make sense when viewed within context. Investigators rely on hunches - but a good "hunch" is usually a logical combination of countless subtle clues, clues that an ordinary person wouldn't notice. You can train people to develop good hunches, but it takes a lot. If I saw a person whose behavior fit ten different factors, and one of those factors was that he was the only person in the airport carrying an almanac or a navigational chart - that might make me want to watch that person until I decided whether his behavior was legitimate or not. But that's how the job is done - watching for little clues that may or may not be significant. It used to bug the heck out of me when we would get inexperienced managers who would order us not to do something because it was "counterproductive" - even though we knew darn well that it was something that indirectly helped us develop information that was productive. So, yeah, I'd watch for almanacs. But I wouldn't arrest somebody or even question him for carrying an almanac. -Joe Offer-
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30 Dec 03 - 01:53 PM (#1082537) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: GUEST Make sure you dont take a bible or koran/quran |
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30 Dec 03 - 02:12 PM (#1082552) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: DougR Well, Joe, if an almanac is a legitimate clue, I doubt any Terrorist will be carrying one from now on. DougR |
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30 Dec 03 - 02:22 PM (#1082561) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: Rapparee Exactly, DougR. Exactly. |
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30 Dec 03 - 02:47 PM (#1082593) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: Gareth Damm ! Does this mean us sailing and fishing 'Catters have to deep six our Nautical Almanacs ? Gareth |
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30 Dec 03 - 03:01 PM (#1082600) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: Joe Offer Well, an almanac is something to notice, as is anything that's out of place. It's like a piece of a jigsaw puzzle. One piece doth not a puzzle make. My point is that many (maybe most) law enforcement officers are good at what they do, as are many people in other professions - and it can be foolhardy to second-guess them. A good investigator looks at everything, but tends to pay more attention to things that are out of place. I suppose this may be a sore point for me. I remember many job applicants I investigated who were quite perturbed by the things I questioned - like their Ku Klux Klan membership, and their wearing of Nazi uniforms, and their less-than-honorable discharge from the Army, and their overwhelming debts for luxuries. For months, one guy faxed me daily messages of leads he thought I should pursue in his investigation, which I had concluded within a week after my first encounter with the man. One problem in law enforcement and in many professions is that the managers have no experience in the work done by their subordinates. When I had about twenty years on the job, I had a new manager who had three years of field experience, and he drove me crazy. He wanted every "t" dotted and every "i" crossed. I can picture him posting me at the door of a building, keeping record of every person who entered and whether or not the person was carrying an almanac. I swear he'd do it. -Joe Offer- |
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30 Dec 03 - 03:20 PM (#1082611) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: jimmyt If this isn't about the dumbest damned thing I have heard yet! Also, I imagine the potential terrorists will be wearing shoes so BE ON THE LOOKOUT for shoe wearers! |
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30 Dec 03 - 03:25 PM (#1082616) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: Rapparee Joe is quite correct: it's one piece among many. But it's still pretty damned silly, and I can see some gung-ho, inexperienced young punk deciding to make his rep by busting a guy carrying a "World Almanac." Unfortunately. For what it's worth, I suggested this morning that we require patrons to sign for almanacs. Fortunately, the staff knows that I wasn't serious. |
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30 Dec 03 - 05:32 PM (#1082706) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: McGrath of Harlow Are these Almanacs they are worried about the same as our "Old Moore's Almanac", which lists the major events of the coming year, such as earthquakes, assassinations and wars? |
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30 Dec 03 - 06:40 PM (#1082763) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: Peace I once taught in a maximum security prison. The inmates were not allowed to have pens because they could be turned into weapons. The same policy allowed them to have pencils. It always made me laugh. (Jab a pencil into someone's ear and they are toast.) But, I guess the administration perceived the pen to be mightier than the sword. Security people do what they do, and generally the reasoning behind it all at least makes sense to someone. However, I hope this doesn't herald an editing of Almanacs to take out information that might be used in a wrong way. Meanwhile, I won't be caught with one, and after receiving the heads up, I'll be sure to carry the Almanac in a violin case. |
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30 Dec 03 - 07:34 PM (#1082808) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: McGrath of Harlow I take Joe's point about how how it makes sense in this situation to looking out for all kinds of things. An Almanac could indeed be one of those those - but then so could an umbrella in some circumstances. Or a guitar. But the bizarre thing here was the way the piece ends "The FBI urged police to report such discoveries to the local U.S. Joint Terrorism Task Force." And the discoveries apparently aren't instances where they were able to identify terrorists by means of the Almanacs they were consulting, but merely instances where they saw someone consulting an Almanac. |
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31 Dec 03 - 11:48 AM (#1083218) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: GUEST Umberellas are only suspicious when carried by Bulgarians! |
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31 Dec 03 - 12:00 PM (#1083231) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: Amos "Hello, Joint Task Force HQ? I want to report an almanac...yes, an almanac. I couldn't tell the date but I think it was one of them New England Farmer almanacs -- who'lda thought -- yeah, with the yellow cover, and the sun and moon on it? That kind. What? Crime? No, I didn't see no crime, just tellin' ya about the goddamn terrorist with the almanac!! Who? Thaddeus James, that's who!! He wuz readin' it right out in the outhouse this morning. I peeked through the cracks and saw it!! The smell alone was enough to be a weapon of mice destruction, you bet!! He musta felt guilty about it too, cuz he was tearing off them pages and dropping them in the hole. You guys better move in on him pretty quick...he's posing as a neighbor 'round here, pretending to be an American farmer!! Betcha his widder would sign that land sale I wanted...oh, nothin', nothin...just that almanac. You better get over here..." |
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31 Dec 03 - 12:00 PM (#1083232) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: Peg Agreed re: a broken bottle is a better weapon than a set of nail clippers...if you really want to throw them off the trail buy a bottle of something rare and expensive! It makes sense that an almanac might be a suspicious item in tandem with many other factors; but of course there ar a bunch of numbnuts out there who will see the presence of an almanac alone as 'proof' of something...along with a head-turban, or a birka... Oddly, this reminds me of those cases where finding a videotape of a violent movie or a set of tarot cards or a book by Aleister Crowley in a teenager's bedroom somehow gives a valid criminal profile...gimme a break...This is how the West Memphis Three were convicted. Why are such stupid people allowed to work in law enforcement? |
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31 Dec 03 - 01:10 PM (#1083291) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: Kim C I would think that a traveler carrying an almanac might be a common sight. And what about a road atlas? |
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31 Dec 03 - 01:20 PM (#1083297) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: Amos What's ridiculous is that in almost any airport you can get ten times the information available in an atlas just by carrying a laptop with a wireless card. And what about old Charley Chan novels -- maybe they're using them as templates for heinous crimes!!! A |
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31 Dec 03 - 03:16 PM (#1083366) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: Donuel note to CIA action commitee: Print an Arabic US Almanac - chock full of misinformation. |
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31 Dec 03 - 05:38 PM (#1083482) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: Peace Well, I figure anyone carrying the bound and complete Oxford English Dictionary could get a few machine pistols aboard an aircraft. Anyone considered this? |
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31 Dec 03 - 05:39 PM (#1083483) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: Peace On second thought, the only man on Earth strong enough to carry it would be Arnie, and he's the G of C now. Please, forget I asked. Thank y'all. |
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06 Jan 04 - 04:40 PM (#1087313) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: Amos The actual FBI circular has now been posted at this site. Regards, A |
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06 Jan 04 - 04:59 PM (#1087333) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: McGrath of Harlow "During the course of authorized searches, traffic stops, and other contacts, law enforcement officers should be alert to the potential terrorist use of almanacs for pre-operational activities. Indicators of the use of almanacs for this purpose may include suspicious notations concerning high-profile locations such as tall buildings or landmarks..." It seems pretty clear that the USA is not a sensible place to go the kind of tourist who likes visiting "high-profile locations such as tall buildings or landmarks". I wonder if this will catch on elsewhere, and Americans who ask the way to the Tower of London or the Eiffel Tower will find themselves banged up on suspicion? |
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07 Jan 04 - 01:02 AM (#1087642) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: LadyJean Since 9/11, I have packed my knitting bag inside my suitcase, which I check. On my last trip, I spent three count 'em three hours in the Cincinnatti Airport, and some fool searched my checked bag, without my knowledge. It was "that time of the month", so it was REALLY embarassing. But the strange thing was that the yarn needle, a two inch long blunt ended sewing needle that is used to finish knitting projects, was missing from the bag. I swear I packed the thing. I'm working on a pair of socks. Times being what they are, I wouldn't DARE knit an afghan. |
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07 Jan 04 - 03:54 AM (#1087693) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: GUEST,Teribus Thanks Joe for your postings above which put the circular firmly in the context of those who wrote it. Talking of Bulgarians and umberellas, one seemingly innocent and apparently unconnected detail that was always of great significance to NATO. During the "cold war", how well collective farms in Soviet Russia appeared to be doing was watched very closely. If the forecast was for a good harvest, NATO always went onto a higher state of alert. As Joe pointed out, it was one of the early signs that indicated what could be possible in the ensuing weeks, no threat, no danger - just one piece of a jig-saw puzzle. |
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07 Jan 04 - 05:12 AM (#1087734) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: katlaughing I'm going to go buy me at least a dozen almanacs..pass 'em out on street corners...good lawd what idiocy! |
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07 Jan 04 - 06:03 AM (#1087762) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: sledge Time to get rid of those Michelin guides. Sledge |
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07 Jan 04 - 06:37 AM (#1087782) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: McGrath of Harlow "...one of the early signs that indicated what could be possible in the ensuing weeks" I think that just about covers everything. I've just tried to imagine something that wouldn't be "possible in the ensuing weeks", and it's not that easy. It occurs to me that it's pretty likely that any terrorist is going to be carrying a mobile phone, so we should definitely be keeping an eye out for that. On the other hand, these terrorists are crafty enough to know that we'd think that, so anyone when we come across someone who isn't carrying a mobile phone we should be very suspicious... |
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07 Jan 04 - 07:49 AM (#1087832) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: Greg F. I've just tried to imagine something that wouldn't be "possible in the ensuing weeks", and it's not that easy. Sure it is, Kevin: Visualize rational non-hysterical thought in the U.S. Got it in one. |
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08 Jan 04 - 07:14 AM (#1088590) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: GUEST,JTT Since the US is now welcoming tourists by fingerprinting them and taking photos of their faces, I suspect the genuine tourist industry may not remain healthy. And business travellers may also be insulted by this. It's supposedly not done to people who don't require a visa, but not all customs officers are intelligent. |
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08 Jan 04 - 09:57 AM (#1088664) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: Mooh I've carried a pocket knife every day since I was a boy, but there are days when my underpants would make a better weapon. Remind me to change before I travel. Or maybe we should travel naked, that would be fun! Peace, Mooh. |
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08 Jan 04 - 01:24 PM (#1088795) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: GUEST,Teribus Guest JTT With the US$ at 1.80 to the £ - the US tourist industry has got nothing to worry about. |
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08 Jan 04 - 03:38 PM (#1088894) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: McGrath of Harlow "Visualise rational non-hysterical thought in the U.S." No problem - it comes leaping out from the Mudcat every time I open it. Along with some of the other sort, of course, from time to time... |
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09 Jan 04 - 12:54 AM (#1089205) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: Bee-dubya-ell To borrow from McGrath's line of thinking, it would seem to me that a well-trained terrorist operative would have memorized the facts that he would need to know in order to carry out his mission. Therefore, the people who should fall under suspicion are the ones who aren't carrying almanacs! Bruce |
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09 Jan 04 - 03:49 AM (#1089249) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: GUEST,Teribus McGrath of Harlow 07 Jan 04 - 06:37 AM "...one of the early signs that indicated what could be possible in the ensuing weeks" I think that just about covers everything. I've just tried to imagine something that wouldn't be "possible in the ensuing weeks", and it's not that easy." After the 1917 revolution in Russia the Bolsheviks turned their attention to the Kulaks, farmers who owned their own land. Under collectivisation they were wiped out, which was a great pity for the Russian people as it was these farmers who actually kept the country fed. From that point at no time did the glorious communist soviet regime ever suceed in doing what a bunch of middle class farmers had done for centuries. Russia imported food from the USA (Grain) and from Europe. The significance of a good harvest in Russia was that it opened the option for an attack in the west. If your larder is empty you do not destroy the bakery or green grocers shop. |
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09 Jan 04 - 08:03 AM (#1089334) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: McGrath of Harlow My gripe with that formula "what could be possible in the ensuing weeks" was that it was so vague as to be vacuous. Virtually everything is possible. What is of interest in this kind of context is, how probable certain things are. |
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09 Jan 04 - 06:45 PM (#1089727) Subject: RE: BS: New Threat to Security From: Peace Have they issued warnings about people carrying thermonuclear devices? If not, they should! That's what I think, anyway. |