|
14 Jan 04 - 11:42 PM (#1093057) Subject: Tech: Download a file to Floppy (3 1/2) From: Jeep man Mudcatters are well known for their musical knowledge, My question is of a technical matter. I have a file which has been a catchall for Music, Text files and so forth. Just like that drawer in the kitchen thats full of junk. It is quite a load on my old Computer and I would like to downlod to a floppy disc. Is this reasonable? I am not very computer literate. Jim |
|
15 Jan 04 - 12:06 AM (#1093067) Subject: RE: Tech: Download a file to Floppy (3 1/2) From: Amos Jeep: A modern floppy disk holds-- at most-- 1.4 Megabytes of data. IF I understand you, you are referring to a folder (a directory) of files, which in turn contains many files of various sorts. Yes? The only question is how much information the folder has in it. You would have to look at the "Properties" listing of the folder to find out; or, if it is a Mac, "Get Info" on the folder. If it has less than 1.4 Megabytes of data in it, you could download it to a floppy disk if you wanted to. However, if your computer has a USB port in it (depends on age) you would be better off transferring it to a CD or a Zip Disk, again depending on the size. If your computer has a SCSI port, you could still find a Zip Drive or a CD burner that hooked up to a SCSI port to use. The reason is that they hold more and (CDs especially) are more reliable. You might do better to sort the folder into several folders by type (music, text, etc) and downlaod those subfolders to floppies or zip-disks or CDs or whatever. Hope this helps. A |
|
15 Jan 04 - 12:07 AM (#1093070) Subject: RE: Tech: Download a file to Floppy (3 1/2) From: Amergin yes...but if your file is bigger than 1.44 megs....than forget it. |
|
15 Jan 04 - 12:10 AM (#1093076) Subject: RE: Tech: Download a file to Floppy (3 1/2) From: Amos Zip disks can hold up to 100 Megs, and CDs up to 700. There are lots of possibilities out there. A |
|
15 Jan 04 - 12:31 AM (#1093092) Subject: RE: Tech: Download a file to Floppy (3 1/2) From: Jeep man Thanks guys. I now have a starting place. Jim |
|
15 Jan 04 - 12:46 AM (#1093098) Subject: RE: Tech: Download a file to Floppy (3 1/2) From: GUEST,Stilly River Sage Amos, my zip drive is an old one and it holds 250meg. They make a 750 meg disk and I think I've seen some that hold nearly a gig now. I love my zip drive, for a number of reasons. The disks are like the old floppies, in that they don't have some of the same restrictions as CDs (some of that burning software is pretty picky if you're moving copyrighted stuff, for example). You do need to have a 250 meg zip drive to use the 250meg disk, and any of the smaller sizes will work in the bigger drives. CD-RW is also a possibility, but they're harder to take to other machines if that is what you're planning to do. You can get a zip drive that plugs into your USB port and move it from machine to machine (best take the installation Cd with you if you plan to use it that way, though). Or, you could get one of those nifty little thumb drives. They plug into the USB port and some of them hold 150 meg or more. It requires some software to use it, but once installed, all you do is plug it in and use it. They've come way down in price. Our IT guys at the library use them all of the time. And if you want to see REALLY tiny but big storage, look at this! SRS |
|
15 Jan 04 - 02:05 AM (#1093110) Subject: RE: Tech: Download a file to Floppy (3 1/2) From: GUEST,Jon I use CDs. Drives are cheap these days and you can get CDRs for very little. I don't know about US prices but I just bought 100 for about £12 (plus postage). No cases with them though. Thinking of SR's "thumb drive", I also have a "6-in-1" card read/writer in a little pouch which also contains a mini cd with drivers if needed - it all fits comfortably in my pocket - cost about £20. I think you can now get a 32Mb Smartmedia card for under £10. Jon |
|
15 Jan 04 - 03:10 AM (#1093128) Subject: RE: Tech: Download a file to Floppy (3 1/2) From: Escamillo If what you want is simply STORE that stuff on removable drives, and do not pretend to USE those files on line, you may well compress those files into a set of diskettes. Later you can extract some particular file from the set, back to your hard disk. Use WINZIP (you can download a trial version from www.download.com)to compress those files, with destination diskette A:\nameyouwant.zip, and check that the field "Multiple disk spanning" is set to "Automatic". Then Winzip will ask you to insert disk 1, disk 2..etc. To restore them just use Winzip to open the zipped file in A:, it will ask you to insert disk 1, disk 2, etc. You also can do this with the old PKZIP.EXE in MS-DOS mode, in a command like this: PKZIP -R&P A:NAME C:\YOURFOLDER\*.*, and to restore them, PKUNZIP A:NAME c:\yourfolder\yourfile Always remember that each diskette stores 1.4 MB,so if you have 30 MB to store, probably they will be compressed to 3 MB and require 3 diskettes. If you have 300 MB compressed to 30 Mb, you will need 22 diskettes, and so on. Saludos - Andrés |
|
15 Jan 04 - 04:38 AM (#1093157) Subject: RE: Tech: Download a file to Floppy (3 1/2) From: JohnInKansas WinZIP or PKZip are pretty good, but 10 to 1 compression is extremely rare. If you have any executable files (.exe, .com) you're unlikely to get better than 0.6 to 1 on them, the common .pdf and .tif files hardly compress at all, and .gif and .jpg files are already compressed and don't gain measurably by running them through a zip. While you can use the zip programs to span floppies, it's (IMO) a very risky procedure for archiving, since damage or loss of any one disk means you can't restore anything much from any of the disks. If you put 14 MB on 10 1.4 MB disks, its 10 times as likely that at least one of the disks will fail, as if you put the whole 14 BM in a single place with the same sort of medium. With the kinds of storage conditions likely in a home environment, no magnetic storage media can be considered a safe place to put stuff away for more than about 3 to 5 years. I've had poor experience with the 100MB ZIP Drives, although others have done better. IOMEGA had some problems with disk quality a few years back, and a bad disk would "injure" the drive so that it could eat the next few disks you put in it, sometimes in a way that you wouldn't notice the first time, but subsequent use of the damaged disk would show progressive deterioration and loss of data. I'm told they've fixed it all, but "once bit twice shy." I do use a ZIP drive frequently for "temporary" saves of a web page or so, but I don't consider them an archival quality storage. The basic question, "can files be copied to floppies to get them off the machine?" is a yes. If each individual file is less than the 1.4 MB that a floppy can hold, you can just copy them individually, and put as many as you can fit on each floppy. If you have a few individual files that are each larger than 1.4 MB, you can use WinZIP or PKZip to "span floppies" to put each file on a "set" of floppies, and if you store the set carefully you'll have a good chance of getting the file back if you want it in the short term. If you have to use disk spanning, you want a separate set for each file, so that you only lose one if a disk doesn't hold up. If you have files that you really want to save for a fairly long while, the only safe place to put them (that's as safe as leaving them on a hard drive) would be to put them on good quality CDs. Most of the "major brand" CD manufacturers are quoting believable lifetimes for data storage of 50 years or more. If you go with the "house brand" blanks that some places sell a lot cheaper, you can't, currently, expect better than 5 to 10 years of safe storage. It's also significant that the "majors" recommend that blank CDs be burned within 1 to 3 years of purchase, since the recording layers lose sensitivity before they're burned, and may not "take" new data reliably when they get old, even though they can "hold" the data indefinitely once its there. If all you have right now is a floppy drive, then by all means consider it safe to copy anything that will fit on them there. Floppies are cheap, and safe enough for about as long as most people need. If you have more stuff than you can fit on floppies, getting a CD burner, ZIP drive, or a bigger Hard Drive all are workable options, and any of these can be done with about the same budget. If you need to look at one of these options, though, and if your current machine doesn't have any of these fancy gadgets, you should consider that you can probably get a new computer, including one or more of the larger storage media, for about twice (to maybe 4x) the price of adding any one of these options. If you have space and ports, you could add an internal drive, but there are limits to what you can stuff inside. If you have a USB port on your machine, you could consider an external USB Hard Drive, CD Burner, or ZIP drive, for a very little more than the internal ones. The external ones are very easy to set up, in most cases. If you don't have a USB port, you can get one of those added to an existing machine fairly cheaply ($40 US?) if you have a card slot available. If you have an older machine and it does have a USB port, you need to check whether its USB or USB-2. If it's the older USB type, it won't support the data rates needed by anything faster than about a 4x speed CD burner. You can probably use a faster burner with it, but you'll have to set it back to a slower speed, so there's no gain in spending more for a drive that's faster than you can use. John |
|
15 Jan 04 - 04:54 AM (#1093163) Subject: RE: Tech: Download a file to Floppy (3 1/2) From: BanjoRay A beautifully written useful summary, John. Ray |
|
15 Jan 04 - 11:21 AM (#1093384) Subject: RE: Tech: Download a file to Floppy (3 1/2) From: Bill D for real, EXCELLENT alternatives to WinZip, do check this group of four. Any of them will compress (zip) and uncompress your data quite well. |
|
15 Jan 04 - 11:55 AM (#1093416) Subject: RE: Tech: Download a file to Floppy (3 1/2) From: Grab John, CD burners round our way are £25. If you can get a new PC for £100, I'd love to know where you're shopping! ;-) I agree, CD is the only way to go these days. Zip drives and the like are basically dead now, where CD burners are cheap and ubiquitous. With stuff on CD, you can give it to anyone else and they can read it, because everyone has CD drives, and you can read it on any DVD drive (which will be the future format) as well. If you get a zip drive now and it breaks in 5 years, all your data will likely be gone because you won't be able to find a replacement zip drive to read the disks. If your PC hasn't got a CD burner, best bet is probably to talk nicely to your local computer shop. If you get a good shop, they'll usually fit it for you (possibly for a small charge, but it shouldn't be much bcos the fitting process is pretty easy). Jeepman, if by "music" you mean anything record (sound files, etc) then a floppy is never going to cut it. A floppy will store roughly 1-2 minutes of MP3, at most. Graham. |
|
15 Jan 04 - 11:59 AM (#1093424) Subject: RE: Tech: Download a file to Floppy (3 1/2) From: Amos I have a mess of older 100 MB Zip disks, as well as some 250. I'd go with CDs for anything larger. Thumb drives are really handy for short term transport, but they are cheaply made and I wouldn't rely on them to protect data long term. Just an opinion. A |
|
15 Jan 04 - 01:55 PM (#1093495) Subject: RE: Tech: Download a file to Floppy (3 1/2) From: JohnInKansas Grab - I'm not sure about the current conversion rates, but there are a few "home quality" "web PCs" available for about $250 (US). A knowledgeable user, able to do his own installation might get a CD burner for about $40, but the run-of-the-mill decent ones in the shops here are $70 and up. (The ones I would consider for my own use run up to $150 or so, but units in this category would be useless with the kind of machine I must presume for someone who's not used his existing floppy drive.) Based on the kind of question asked, I'd have to assume that this user would pay $30 to $50 to get even a $40 drive installed at a typical service shop here. I suspect that the prevailing labor rates are somewhat different between our locales, and his result would depend strongly on local rates. For the kind of stuff this user would find most available the 2x (to 4x) price difference is not too far off, although I'll concede a little exaggeration for emphasis. [$250 new /($40 drive + $30 install) = 3.6?] The cheap estimate for getting someone to install a burner or ZIP ignores the likelihood that a machine old enough to not already have a burner may not have the power supply capacity and/or the controller port(s) to add such hardware. Add $49 for a 350W supply (about minimum with a CD burner and one or more other drives) and $39 for an EIDE controller (his may be an older EID type, and/or ports may already be in use - there are only 4 to a controller), plus installation, and you get to break-even quite quickly - and you've still got an old machine. The cheap way out would definitely be to enlist a knowledgeable friend to help with an upgrade, and search for low cost components; but if such a friend were available, the question wouldn't appear here.(?) [Asking around might even find someone with the junk box full of parts to get "a solution" for a couple of beers.] I've generally recommended against the $250 machines, for friends who've asked. The problem is not particularly with the machines, but with the software that comes bundled (or that doesn't come bundled). But there are people for whom the cheap things will do what they want. I did help a friend with purchase of a new "minimalist" one recently that came in at about $1,200, and he seems happy with what he got; but I wouldn't consider any I've seen recently for my own use that wouldn't be nearer $2,500 (but then I've already got 5 working machines, and "need" something better). As a side note, I'll agree that the DVD is coming, but it's not quite archival yet. I've used mine for a few burns, but have had "drops" on individual files that are unexplained, and it's a r.p.a. to go through 4.7GB to verify that each and every file got copied correctly - but seems necessary for data files, not so much so for music since you'll either hear it or not. There are at least 5 still competing and not-fully-interchangeable standards for file format, and at least 3 "partially interchangeable" disk standards. Additionally, the more sensitive data layers on current DVD disks cannot be shown to have reliable storage life after recording longer than the 3 to 5 year range that's accepted for magnetic media. A "problem" seldom noted by those who burn a lot of CDs is that recovery of files from a CD is usually at 1x speed (or less), even if you can burn at some super rates. I can burn a data CD in 10 minutes (SHE has a faster burner - 3 minutes tops) but it can take 20+ minutes to just copy one back to the HD where you can use the files. I haven't tried a back-copy of an entire DVD, but it obviously ain't gonna be hard drive speed. Just finding a specific individual file seems to take "forever" when you're used to working from HD. A side "feature" not often noted is that the Joliet standard for file names may change the names of some files if you've used long file names and/or a deep folder structure. Every data file on a CD includes the entire path in it's "Joliet file name," with a limit of 64(?) characters. The "filename" you had on your hard drive is what gets truncated if the path+name is too long. The Joliet standard also uses/excludes a slightly different character set, so that a few characters you might use in file names on the machine will be "illegal" on the CD. A hard drive copied to CD doesn't necessarily have the same file/path structure as the original, and can't be readily "restored" just by copying things back. You should get all the files, but they may be slightly renamed. John |
|
15 Jan 04 - 02:06 PM (#1093501) Subject: RE: Tech: Download a file to Floppy (3 1/2) From: Stilly River Sage I didn't note in my note that I have backed up all of my data onto an external hard drive, USB-2, with 120 gig. After rebate, it cost me about $110. I use Norton Ghost with it, and it works very well. The zip drive is something I use in my own small world, between work and home, because I carry large files to both places. The other option I could use is a CD-RW between the two places. Trouble is, I'm using two different burner programs, and it has been my experience that they tend to duke it out, their primary move being to offer to reformat the disk or refuse to use it. I'd rather reuse the zip disk than to toss CDs that other computers won't use and the data is no longer current. SRS |
|
15 Jan 04 - 02:29 PM (#1093515) Subject: RE: Tech: Download a file to Floppy (3 1/2) From: Amos You can get a highly capable e-Mac with burner for under a grand these days, snappy fast and easy to use. A |
|
15 Jan 04 - 05:02 PM (#1093597) Subject: RE: Tech: Download a file to Floppy (3 1/2) From: Jeep man YOU GUYS ARE GOOD!!! Jeep |
|
16 Jan 04 - 01:28 AM (#1093877) Subject: RE: Tech: Download a file to Floppy (3 1/2) From: The Fooles Troupe I have a Syquest 270 Cartridge Drive, and an Imation 120Mb "floppy" drive. Both are obsolete now, and I seem unable to purchase new cartridges. I deliberately avoided Zip, because at the time there were lots of hassles as detailed above. So if anybody has any usuable cartridges for either , or knows where some can be obtained, I would be thankful. I am saving up for a new machine, as it it not worth putting a CD burner in a P133 non-MMX machine... :-) Robin |
|
16 Jan 04 - 03:15 AM (#1093899) Subject: RE: Tech: Download a file to Floppy (3 1/2) From: JohnInKansas Foolstroupe - Imation stopped making disks in May of 2003, and won't help you find them (although they might still have a few in stock). Their site links to lists of a number of retailers who probably have had some disks, but with no guarantee that they'll actually have any left. While you might not want to put money into your old machine, you might consider a USB external Hard Drive that you could transfer over to any new machine you might get. In my area, you can get a 60 or 80 GB external for under $150, and smaller ones as low as about $60. This would give you a place to get your data off of those floppies while you can still read them. If you don't have a USB port, you should be able to get a card to put one in for $30, maybe even cheaper; although you may have some trouble finding one for your old card slots - most of the new ones are PCI connect. You could consider an external CD burner, but any new machine you get will probably have one built in, so there's less likelihood of "useful" carryover. If your Imation drive craps out, Imation offers a data "recover to CD" service, but it's $15 (US) per disk to be recovered, plus $2 per CD returned, with a $50 "setup charge" per order. Do it now yourself, if you have anything on those disks you really want to keep. If you have, or can install, the USB port or an etherlink port, almost anyone with a laptop could probably copy your files and carry them to a burner NOW. You might even be able to rent a laptop with a burner for a day,but friends are cheaper (usually). Rather than looking for more disks, I'd advise getting what you have on them now to a safer storage, at least if you have anything there that might be useful on your new machine. [No manufacturer discontinues a product that's working well enough to make a profit?] And dumping the data you have to CDs (that you'll be able to read when you get the new computer) will at least give you a few empty ones to play with now. I haven't looked at the Syquest recently, but I suspect the situation is similar. John |
|
16 Jan 04 - 03:25 AM (#1093902) Subject: RE: Tech: Download a file to Floppy (3 1/2) From: The Fooles Troupe Yeah, the beast has no USB at all, but it does have PCI slots. Robin |
|
16 Jan 04 - 04:38 AM (#1093933) Subject: RE: Tech: Download a file to Floppy (3 1/2) From: GUEST,Jon Amos said: Thumb drives are really handy for short term transport, but they are cheaply made and I wouldn't rely on them to protect data long term. I must say I prefer my 6-1 reader as, although it is more bulky, it gives me a choice of media - I can easily accept a small card from someone else for transfer but that's not what I want to ask... I've only ever thought of the flash type things as temporary storage devices, handy where you might have used floppies in the past as well as for their use in things like digital cameras. Does anyone think they are/ will be a viable method of longer storage? Jon |
|
16 Jan 04 - 10:36 PM (#1094632) Subject: RE: Tech: Download a file to Floppy (3 1/2) From: JohnInKansas If you have PCI slots open, you can probably get a USB card for around $20 - $30 (US), maybe a little cheaper. I don't recall mention of what OS you're using, but the card should come with drivers for anything likely - but check that out before you give them the money. Get USB-2 if possible, although with a little loss of performance a USB-2 drive should run from any older USB port - just a little slower. Of course, that's if you think an external HD might be handy, or are thinking about digital camera, or ... . If you have an older machine, a 20GB or so HD might look enormous compared to what's in your current machine; but any new machine you might want to carry it along to will likely have something more like 40GB or 80GB (or even much larger), so shoot high if possible. Externals smaller than about 30GB aren't commonly on the shelf in my area, but the smaller ones are somewhat cheaper. Your choice. Jon - Quite a few folk talk about using camera cards as a substitute for floppies. I don't know many who actually do it much, since everybody's "connected" and you can email a file quicker than carrying it down the street. A card reader is around $20, typical, and you can take it along; but the cards are not a good way to archive stuff (they will eventually self discharge on the shelf - usually weeks, not years) and a "useful" size - 64MB to 128MB - card is nearly the price of a 60GB external (portable) hard drive, in some formats. Of course, the hard drive doesn't fit in a shirt pocket very well. As a "sneaker net" utility, they're fine. There are a lot of cheaper and safer ways to store anything very large. John |
|
16 Jan 04 - 10:49 PM (#1094639) Subject: RE: Tech: Download a file to Floppy (3 1/2) From: GUEST,Jon Thanks John, I find your email suggestion interesting. That of course could be true for some but even though I'm connected, it's not always an option for me right now. Matters may change in that Broadband is supposed to become available in Feb this year but currently a 28.8K dial up connection is the only option round here and mine has a 2hr time out... Even if I changed which I will ASAP, the other party may not have the needed facilities. Jon |
|
17 Jan 04 - 12:33 AM (#1094683) Subject: RE: Tech: Download a file to Floppy (3 1/2) From: JohnInKansas Jon - The email thing has its limitations. Many email accounts won't accept anything larger than 2MB or so, a few don't accept anything with attachments, and what you send has to fit in the inbox or it'll get bounced. About 2MB is normal for the total user space on a lot of email servers. Sometimes you have to send an email to ask the recipient to empty his/her box in order to get yours in, even with modestly sized stuff. Few of the files that normal people trade with any frequency are large enough to be a real size problem; but we've gone to CDs and FedEx (or snail mail) for larger files, and FTP for some. We used to use ZIP disks quite a lot, but they've sort of "faded away" in the past couple of years. Most graphic clips, even those used in commercial publishing aren't more than 100K, frequently a whole lot less; but if you want to exchange "photo quality" pictures, you'll crowd the limits of email pretty quickly. You can attach most peoples' Word docs, but I've got several that are over 5 MB, and a couple up to nearly 30MB (backups are essential). No way to move those by email. Most newer machines have etherlink ports, and it's pretty simple to plug a laptop in if you've set up for it, or you can still zero-modem on a serial port to move stuff to another machine (laptop) - and then carry the laptop across the street to another machine. That's the new sneaker net method, although it's only good for local moves, of course. John |
|
17 Jan 04 - 07:54 PM (#1095190) Subject: RE: Tech: Download a file to Floppy (3 1/2) From: The Fooles Troupe "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 full of magtape" can you identify the quote source? :-) Robin |