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08 Feb 04 - 01:28 AM (#1111721) Subject: BS: Record turnout in Washington State-Kerry From: Don Firth I attended my precinct caucus Saturday morning. Characteristically the precinct caucuses consisted of anywhere from half a dozen to a dozen people, and many of them met in private homes. But expecting a larger than usual crowd (judging from the number of hits on the caucus-finder on the Democratic Party's website), they decided to hold several of the precinct caucuses in the cafeteria of the Lowell School, about two blocks from where I live. They scheduled the sign-in for 10:00 a.m. with the caucuses actually beginning at 10:30. But by 10:30 there was still a long line outside the school building waiting to sign in, so we got off the a late start. But by the time everybody was signed in, there was standing room only. Once they got their act together (being pretty flummoxed by the size of the crowd), they decided they had to spread out through the school. My precinct caucused out in the hall, along with four others. Historically, I heard that the precinct 2017 caucus usually consisted of about a dozen people. But there were fifty-seven! The same story held true for the other precincts. They all drew many more people than they normally did, and most of these folks were attending a precinct caucus for the first time. The precinct caucuses statewide in Washington State normally draw a total of 20,000. Because of such things as the hit-count on their website, the Party figured there might be as many as 100,000. They were half right. The actually count was 200,000. Ten times the usual number of people. The results: Kerry — 49% Dean — 30% Kucinich — 8% Edwards — 7% Clark — 3% Sharpton — <1%> Here's the story: And a good morning to you, Mr. Bush! Don Firth |
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08 Feb 04 - 01:33 AM (#1111722) Subject: RE: BS: Record turnout in Washington State-Kerry From: Don Firth Sorry. That was the Seattle Times home page and it changes from day to day. HERE'S the story. Don Firth |
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08 Feb 04 - 03:58 AM (#1111747) Subject: RE: BS: Record turnout in Washington State-Kerry From: Nerd Thanks for posting the results, Don! I was mad as a Dean supporter, because CNN headline news is not even mentioning Dean's strong second-place finish, which is better than the polls had suggested. In fact, for some reason they aren't showing any numbers at all, just saying that Kerry won. I think it's great news that the turnout was high, and great that Kerry is showing strongly, and even better from my perspective that Dean is showing signs of life and picking up significant numbers of delegates. |
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08 Feb 04 - 09:46 AM (#1111841) Subject: RE: BS: Record turnout in Washington State-Kerry From: Alice Clinton did not "win" a primary until Georgia. The media is doing a great disservice by not reporting all the delegate counts and reminding the public that there are also super delegates at the convention that will be pledged for candidates. It's not over til the fat lady sings (at the convention). |
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08 Feb 04 - 10:30 AM (#1111863) Subject: RE: BS: Record turnout in Washington State-Kerry From: Bobert Well danged!!! This is starting to look purdy crappy fir this Greenie. Kerry was way down on my list of those who I could work for, but work fir him I will... But I may have to wear a danged gas mask in doing it... Phew ..... Nasty.... "Hi, I'm Bobert with the Kerry campaign. Can I have a few minutes of your time?..." Oh, this ain't gonna be no fun at all. (But, Bobert, you're really not working for Kerry but aginst Bush!) Still purdy smelly... Bobert |
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08 Feb 04 - 10:43 AM (#1111874) Subject: RE: BS: Record turnout in Washington State-Kerry From: Stilly River Sage Bobert, At least this time, the message was from WITHIN the party--some of it is bound to rub off (one hopes!). Kerry will get the message that Gore and his group ignored last time--Nader did the few percentage points fatal damage he did because the greens were ignored by the mainstream. Dean and his message have been crucial to these outcomes. SRS |
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08 Feb 04 - 01:05 PM (#1111940) Subject: RE: BS: Record turnout in Washington State-Kerry From: Nerd A report from people on the ground in WA (posted to a Howard Dean Blog): MAJOR PROBLEM IN 36TH DISTRICT CAUCUS - SEATTLE, WA. AT OUR CAUCUS IT WAS Dean 3 or 4 to Kerry 1 and we were shocked when Dean didn't win. SHOCKED! Here is what happened in my precinct. We won 4 delegates for DEAN because none of the other candidates were viable. In our precinct Dean had over 71% of the votes... BUT When I went to the 36th district HQ's to find out what the caucus numbers were for the whole district and I looked on the computer that AMY HAGPOLAIN was entering data on - I discovered she had completely reallocated the delegate allocation for my precinct! She had entered only 1 DELEGATE FOR DEAN (instead of 4) and gave 1 delegate to Clark (note - we did not have a single Clark supporter at our precinct caucus), 1 to Edwards, and 1 to Kerry in my precinct - The precinct that went 71.1% for DEAN with no other candidate being viable or receiving a delegate. That single error affected Dean's delegate count by 1% at the Congressional District level. Looking further into the available paperwork, I found another error in another precinct that was next to mine at the caucus. Of the twelve precincts I had time to look at, I found two errors that gave delegates to Kerry that were not his. I also noticed that the head count in our district said we had 13 people signed in, when it was actually 21!!! That effects the percentage for viability and the delegate allocation! This woman (AMY) got unbelievably angry (defensive) with me as soon as I pointed out the mistake. She immediately started berating me and started a big argument. We had quite an unpleasant shouting match. Then, she and another 36th District Official named PETE started a vicious passive aggressive game, blaming me for keeping them there too late, calling me a jack-ass, on and on and on. Eventually, they won the battle with the District Chair to stop the recount that we had in progress. I made them all stay as long as I could and we started recounting precincts to make sure that the sign-in (head count) numbers were accurate. We found that the majority of the precinct head counts (from the sign-in sheets) were under counted by one or two people and in some cases by as much as 5 to 10 people!!! A couple of the precincts were over counted. Then PETE (last name unknown) told the Chair that no copies of the minutes needed to be made and he would keep them at his house. He started loading the Caucus Minutes into his car to take to his house and AMY was taking out tons of paperwork (I don't know what, exactly) while we were discussing when to start the recount again... the few people on my side who were trying to get the re-count done gave up as Pete and Amy talked the Chair into counting tomorrow and then she let them take all the minutes and delegates papers out the door... UNBELIEVABLE! I could not have made this up if I had tried my best! Truth IS stranger than fiction. THE DEMOCRATS ARE F&^%ED in this District and, quite possibly, this state! I was treated so horribly for finding that first mistake and only wanted to look for more problems. Based on my intial findings this woman named AMY was either (1) inept or lazy and didn't care that she entered the data wrong or (2) she was stealing delegates from DEAN. Either way, it was wrong. When she was asked to correct her error and to look for others - she lost it and BLEW UP! She and her cohort Pete had absolutely no interest in accuracy... they kept repeating to me - "The election is over... Kerry won". They weren't accountable to anyone! This is not about who won - at least not now, anyway. This is about all of the votes at the caucus getting accurately counted so that the delegate allocation is correct. People like AMY and PETE need to be banned from doing this kind political work. I felt like I was a REPUBLICAN 'hanging chad' Party in Florida - or at least what I imagined it to have been like... I'M WRITING "DEAN" ON MY BALLOT IN 2004. Oh, I reported all of this to the KING COUNTY DEMOCRATS CHAIR, GREG RODRIGUEZ and he told me that I was only one of many who reported the same types of problem in other area districts. KERRY PEOPLE ARE MOST LIKELY STEALING OUR DELEGATES. I GUESS KERRY LEARNED A LOT FROM BUSH IN FLORIDA!! We also reported this to some local campaign contacts and the State Democratic Party - pretty much were told by the state party that there was nothing we could do until Monday... UGH! We need the delegates TODAY! This has been an unbelievably UGLY day. Posted by danny at February 8, 2004 12:36 AM Posted by popeye at February 8, 2004 10:35 AM Posted by Judy at February 8, 2004 11:10 AM |
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08 Feb 04 - 01:57 PM (#1111977) Subject: RE: BS: Record turnout in Washington State-Kerry From: Nerd Sorry, I should have been clearer as to the source: my post above was posted to the comments section of the main Dean blog, blogforamerica.com The comment posts go up unedited by the campaign, so this was just the opinion of the three Dean supporters signed on to the message. The campaign has made no formal charges or even allegations against officials in Washington State, or against Senator Kerry. Even if irregularities are found, it is of course quite possible that Kerry was completely unaware of them. |
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08 Feb 04 - 01:58 PM (#1111980) Subject: RE: BS: Record turnout in Washington State-Kerry From: GUEST,Can Democrates Unite "I'M WRITING "DEAN" ON MY BALLOT IN 2004" If you Democrates don't all vote for your party's nominee then you will be really voting for Bush. Please don't do that because there are Republicans that want Bush out and like Bobert said will likely hold their noses to vote for Kerry. You Democrates are CRAZY if you don't stick together. Please try to think hard about the consequences. You may love Dean, but you probably dislike Bush more than any other politician. |
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08 Feb 04 - 02:19 PM (#1111991) Subject: RE: BS: Record turnout in Washington State-Kerry From: Nerd Yeah, Guest CDU?, for the record I agree with you. As I explained, I reposted the above from the Dean blog, so the folks who wrote that piece aren't on this forum and won't read our admonitions. But I still think what you say is important. If Kerry gets the nomination it will mean, among other things, that allegations of dirty tricks have not by then disqualified him. Given that, all democrats should support him unless they truly would prefer Bush. |
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08 Feb 04 - 02:39 PM (#1112003) Subject: RE: BS: Record turnout in Washington State-Kerry From: Don Firth Nerd, I don't know what's going on here, because the Congressional District caucuses haven't been held yet. It strikes me that someone must be confused. It also strikes me that someone is sore because it didn't come out the way he wanted it to. A candidate can't necessarily be blamed for the acts and attitudes of some of those working in his behalf, but when the point came in the caucus I attended where the preliminary vote was taken, the figures posted, and we began circulating and trying to persuade people to switch and back our particular favorite, not all, but some of the "Deaniacs" struck me as extremely aggressive and sometimes verged on abusive if someone didn't buy their arguments. Enthusiasm is one thing, but this seemed a bit excessive, and in a couple of cases, counterproductive. I detect that same attitude ("If Dean doesn't win the nomination, we'll lose to Bush, and it'll be all your fault!") in the blog you cited. I can't speak for other precinct caucuses around the state, but circulating among the caucuses being held at Lowell School (43rd Congressional District—Seattle), everything I observed was straight and open. I have no quarrel with the outcome or the way it was reached, even though Kerry is not my favorite. The actual Congressional District caucuses won't be held for a couple of weeks yet, so I don't know what the blogger you cited is talking about other than trying to imply that because his candidate came in second, he has to accuse somebody of something and claim that Florida has moved to Washington State. 'Tain't so. And if Kerry wins the nomination, and if in November the blogger writes in "Dean" instead of voting for Kerry, he'll be part of the problem, not of the solution. In the long run and considering what's at stake, that soreheaded attitude is incredibly stupid. Dean was my favorite up until recently. Although I was highly doubtful that he would come out on top, I put my vote in for Dennis Kucinich. Having read his website, particularly his Ten Key Issues, I came to the conclusion that, ideally, this is the man I would like to see in the White House. I voted for him not because I thought he would win the nomination at the Convention, but because I like what he says and I hope that the message will filter through to whoever does make it. Everything was open and honest where I was. Don Firth |
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08 Feb 04 - 02:53 PM (#1112010) Subject: RE: BS: Record turnout in Washington State-Kerry From: Deckman JEEZE DON! Here you go, being a troublemaker again. If you hadn't started this thread, this could been just another, boring Sunday. But OH NO, NOT YOU!!!! You had to go and start trouble. ((BG)) Bob |
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08 Feb 04 - 03:13 PM (#1112023) Subject: RE: BS: Record turnout in Washington State-Kerry From: Nerd Don: sounds reasonable to me. Perhaps the poster to the blog didn't know what Amy et al were doing on that computer. Hopefully when he does talk to the party officials on Monday it will all be straightened out. I too would have been very surprised, given the polls, had Dean won, let alone with 71% of the vote! |
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08 Feb 04 - 07:07 PM (#1112128) Subject: RE: BS: Record turnout in Washington State-Kerry From: Gareth Well from this side of the pond Kerry looks and sounds OK to me. But remember and we saw this between 1979 amd 1992 in the UK a disunited opposition will not win. Unify and get out on the streets ! Gareth |
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08 Feb 04 - 07:25 PM (#1112137) Subject: RE: BS: Record turnout in Washington State-Kerry From: Don Firth Point of information: Amy Hagopian (correct spelling) is a professor in the Public Health department at the University of Washington and is politically highly active in matters of public health. I don't have a great deal of information on her, but I believe she is or has been a member of the Seattle School Board, and is dedicated to stopping commercial exploitation of public schools and removing the resulting Coke machines and junk food dispensers from the schools. She is also the Precinct Committee Officer (PCO) of the 1335 precinct, 36th Congressional District in the northeast section of Seattle. From what I do know about her, it is extremely unlikely that she would be involved in anything vaguely resembling trying to cobble delegate votes. Judging from the aggressive behavior of some of the Deaniacs I saw at the caucus I attended, I wouldn't be surprised if Ms Hagopian responded angrily to some of their behavior. These people are not helping Dean. Don Firth |
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08 Feb 04 - 07:35 PM (#1112144) Subject: RE: BS: Record turnout in Washington State-Kerry From: Nerd I wonder if she is related to the Hagopian family who are great musicians? Anyone know? It would bring this back to folk music! |