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21 Feb 04 - 10:47 AM (#1120419) Subject: Tech: Windsor' Whirle ' From: Dave Hanson I've been offered a Windsor Whirle banjo for £60.00 apart from the fact it's English can anyone in Mudcatland give me any more info.[ I haven't seen it yet ] hanks in advance, eric |
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22 Feb 04 - 06:12 AM (#1120954) Subject: RE: Tech: Windsor' Whirle ' From: Dave Hanson refresh |
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22 Feb 04 - 07:46 AM (#1120978) Subject: RE: Tech: Windsor' Whirle ' From: GUEST,Eugene Judge no cookie Here's some info on Windsor. I've seen a "Whirle" for sale on the Net for a lot more! Any old banjo is worth having as a piece of our musical heritage but I'm biased as a "5 stringer". 'British Makers Ancient' was abstracted from the The Banjo Story by A.P.Sharpe serialised in the B.M.G.Magazine 1971-1973 WINDSOR As a young man, Arthur Octavius Windsor acquired a thorough knowledge of wood and metal working and by 1887 had a small factory in Birmingham for the making of coffin 'furniture'. He played the banjo as a hobby and when the instrument started to become universally played he made some instruments after his own design. He had his own bench in a corner of his factory where he fashioned the instruments that carried his name as maker. His banjos proved popular and in three years he had set up an instrument factory in Newhall Street and was employing a staff of twenty-five, all making banjos. Very soon his range of instruments included most of the fretted instruments. He made the first mandolin banjo with a back built up of separate segments and in 1893 took out a patent to use the same method for the backs of zither-banjos, although he continued to use one-piece backs on his cheaper models. At school, Arthur Windsor had been called 'Castle' and he adopted the silhouette of Windsor Castle as a trade mark and called his premises in Newhall Street 'Castle Works'. (In addition to the Newhall Street factory, he had sawmills and a wood-working plant in Mott Street). In the early days, Windsor tested every instrument before it left the factory. In March 1892 he teamed up with Arthur J.Taylor, a prominent Birmingham teacher and player of the banjo and the firm of Windsor& Taylor came into being. Taylor had begun to teach the banjo in 1881 and had first met Windsor in 1885 whilst trying to find a good banjo of English make to sell to-his pupils. They-did business together for some time before entering into a deed of partnership. It was at this time the firm started to make open-back banjos. In January, Windsor & Taylor organised the Birmingham B.M.&G. Orchestra which gave its first public concert in March of that year. These concerts became regular affairs (at which the leading soloists of the day appeared) and the orchestra also visited such places as Coventry, Leamington, Liverpool, London etc. Windsor and Taylor entered the publishing field and this, coupled with the public appearances of A.0.Windsor and A.J.Taylor (both of whom were first-class banjo soloists), did much to publicise the instruments they made and a studio was set aside for him in the factory to enable him to carry onwith his teaching activities. The fact that Oakley changed to zither banjo and was playing a 'Windsor' did much to boost sales. Unlike other manufactures of the day, every part of the instruments made by Windsor & Taylor were fashioned in the Newhall street factory, including all the metal parts used. The latter were always 'non-standard' so that a replacement could only be purchased from them. In 1896 the firm published a 50-page booklet How a Zither-Banjo is Made. Given away free of charge it helped sell the instruments which were already a household name. In 1901, Taylor left the firm and then the title became Arthur 0. Windsor. He had a stand at the British Industries Fair, White City, London, which was most impressive and did much to make the Windsor products known to overseas buyers. In 1928 Windsor brought out his famous 'hollow arm' zither-banjo with its revolutionary resonator-type back. Windsor made instruments for other firms and would copy any design or model. They also supplied many of their cheaper stock instruments branded with the retailer's name as maker. The firms range of banjos, zither-banjos, banjolins and mandolin-banjos was wide because, they offered a large discount on catalogue prices, their lower-priced instruments became known in the trade as 'pawnshop banjos'. These instruments could always be found in pawnshops throughout the country where they would be offered for sale for as much as 50%, below the catalogue price. The firm ceased to exist in December 1940 when the factory was destroyed in an enemy air raid. Up to that time Windsor was probably the largest maker of fretted instruments ever known in this country. The output of the Newhall Street factory in Birmingham must have been many thousands of instruments each year. Cheers Eugene |
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22 Feb 04 - 09:01 AM (#1121012) Subject: RE: Tech: Windsor' Whirle ' From: Geoff the Duck Assuming that the instument is complete and not "damaged" - ie. warped bowed or twisted neck, all frets there and fairly "true" I would have regarded £60 for a vintage Windsor a fair or good price 20 years back. Sounds like a bargain unless it suffers from the above defects. In that case it might be worth repair - if you can find a competent craftesman repairer. You might also wnat to pay that for a wall decoration. Acording to their websites Hobgoblin have ones for sale at £350 and for £450, so the price is excellent if the instrument is playable. Some useful links :- http://www.andybanjo.com/faq_2.htm British Banjo Makers Part 4 Somebody's links page Quack! Geoff. |
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22 Feb 04 - 02:45 PM (#1121216) Subject: RE: Tech: Windsor' Whirle ' From: Leadfingers As Geoff said £60 for a Windsor in reasonable condition is definately a bargain. I already have too many banjos but if I was offered a playable Windsor for that money I would buy it as a spare, if not as an investment. And is it a Tenor or a Five ?? Either way I might be tempted to take it off your hands if you dont want to keep it. |
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23 Feb 04 - 03:54 AM (#1121588) Subject: RE: Tech: Windsor' Whirle ' From: Davetnova Was there a standard design for the whirle range. The reason I ask is that I've got a banjo mandolin, banjolin or what, That has an 11inch pot, smaller tonering and resonator. The only pictures I've seen of them Have been backless without the tone ring but I have seen a windsor popular with an identical body to mine. I know nothing about banjo's (or much else) and wondered if it is a marriage of bits, everything seems to be original. |
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23 Feb 04 - 04:15 AM (#1121598) Subject: RE: Tech: Windsor' Whirle ' From: Dave Hanson Many thanks y'all. eric |
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23 Feb 04 - 04:32 AM (#1121607) Subject: RE: Tech: Windsor' Whirle ' From: Geoff the Duck I don't know the Whirle, but Windsor made assorted models of banjo over the years. They are likely to have made tenor, 5-string, uke, Mandolin versions within a design and "name". Some of the different models will have been similar to other "names" of model, possibly built in a slightly different period, or offering modified features. They also made banjos for other "brand names". I own a Barnes & Mullins 5-string. Although they sold banjos with their name on, the firm didn't actually make the models sold, they contracted the manufacture to other companies, one of which was Windsor. Over the years I have seen a lot of Windsor banjos, and in general they were well-made and sound instruments. Quack! Geoff. p.s. Davetnova - did you lose a bit of pub-prop at the Globe? |
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23 Feb 04 - 06:25 AM (#1121642) Subject: RE: Tech: Windsor' Whirle ' From: Dave Hanson Most of the ones I've seen have been ' zithers ' but the others I've seen seemed to be very well made. I've got a feeling I've seen the ' Whirle ' and it's an open back. Thanks Geoff, eric |
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24 Feb 04 - 03:30 AM (#1122389) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: Davetnova Geoff - I do seem to be missing my adaptor from my pub prop so it could be mine. If you don't mind hanging onto it for a bit we're going to try to make the yorkshire mudcat gather and I could collect it there. |
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15 May 04 - 07:45 PM (#1186494) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: Geoff the Duck One of these turned up at a session last week. An interesting banjo. Quack! GtD. |
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22 Dec 08 - 01:51 PM (#2522298) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: GUEST,N3il I have a whirle tenor banjo and it is an 18 fret, it has "the president no.3 written on the head of it. Was wondering if anyone knows what model it is. |
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22 Dec 08 - 05:38 PM (#2522504) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: The Vulgar Boatman The Windsors came in whole range, from one sold through the Co-op to some very fine models indeed. I believe the President, and possibly the Emperor were at the top end. I had a "Popular" and it served me well for a lot of years - picked it up in a junk shop in Birmingham in the sixties. If anyone was watching Larkrise the other night, they would have seen a Whirle tenor accompanied by a melodeon...both probably well out of period. |
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22 Dec 08 - 07:56 PM (#2522593) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: Geoff the Duck I thought I recognised the emblem on the headstock. I thought it was a Whirle. Thanks for confirming what I thought. Quack! GtD. |
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23 Dec 08 - 05:17 AM (#2522799) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: ThreeSheds Anyone know much about Jedsons? |
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23 Dec 08 - 05:27 AM (#2522806) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: Leadfingers I think Jedson was one of the old American banjo's which are now mass produced out East ! I would think an original in good nick would be a good buy , but the modern ones are a bit of a moveable feast ! |
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23 Dec 08 - 05:43 AM (#2522812) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: bubblyrat I played a "Windsor" banjo for years,mostly when I was in the Navy.I gave a bloke from Sidmouth £10 for it in 1966.I remember that it was quite heavy for its size,had a wooden resonator,and the headstock had 5 tuning-pegs, the fifth string being led down a tube at the point where a "normal" 5th-string tuner would be.It souded very good, was much admired,and an oft-heard remark was " That banjo wasn't MADE, it was BUILT !! " Well, it did seem a bit over-engineered to me too, but that helped it survive three years aboard HMS Eagle and numerous soakings in Tiger beer (and other fluids ).I hadn't realised that Windsor was a maker----I thought that it was a generic term for that style ( 5th string tuned at headstock) of banjo, but now, today, I know different !! ----Isn't the internet a wonderful thing ? !!! And the banjo looked COMPLETELY out of place in "Larkrise" ! |
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23 Dec 08 - 09:02 AM (#2522907) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: banjoman grab it with both hand - its well worth a £60 punt. Even if its had a hard life it would be a great banjo to restore as bits and pieces are easily sourced (I have a few bits myself) Good Luck Pete |
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23 Dec 08 - 09:10 AM (#2522913) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: Dave Hanson This thread was started nearly 5 years ago, it may have gone now. eric |
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11 Feb 09 - 04:27 PM (#2564279) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: GUEST,mark Hi there! I have a Whirle of Windsor "Little gem" 5 string banjo for sale. It has been passed down through my family for years. I believe it is from the 1930 era. It is in original case, but will need new strings. I live in Essex, England. What is it worth? |
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11 Feb 09 - 04:37 PM (#2564294) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: Leadfingers Mark - If you are serious about selling it , join Mudcat (Its FREE) and that will give you Personal Message facility ! PM me and we can discuss . I DONT like putting things like E Mail addresses in open forums ! |
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12 Feb 09 - 03:37 AM (#2564670) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: GUEST,Neovo Windsor also made C tenor saxophones. Not sure how many they made as I've only ever seen one but as somebody has said about the banjos, it was considerably over-engineered compared to the American Conns and Beuchers of the same era. |
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12 Feb 09 - 04:28 AM (#2564694) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: GUEST,Banksie I have a Windsor 5-string, which has 6 machine heads - the 5th string emerging at the 5th fret through a tunnel. I also have a Matthews 7-string banjo, which I bought for £30 at an `antiques' (ie assorted junk) auction a few years ago. It was in a bit of a state but it is now in a playable condition. I currently have it tuned the same as guitar open-G (DGDGBD), following advice on the subject from Ivor Mairants. But I'm sure there must be other options. I'd also be interested in what strings/guages people might recommend for it as the advice I got suggested I should use only the lightest guages to stop it `folding up' under string tension. That does make it quite difficult to play as the strongs are very easy to pull out of tune. |
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12 Feb 09 - 06:55 AM (#2564764) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: Leadfingers When I bought my Temlett 7 string , Clifford Essex still had a shop in London , so I took it there for advice . The suggested tuning was standard 5 string , with a Low C and G for bass runs , to make it easy for Song Accompaniment . |
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12 Feb 09 - 08:03 AM (#2564806) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: DannyC I worked for years with a top-notch banjoman (tenor) by the name of Peter Fitzgerald (from Navan, Co Meath). For a good while Peter's instrument of choice was his 'Windsor'. |
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12 Feb 09 - 11:14 AM (#2564949) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: GUEST,Liz This is all very interesting as I have just been given a Windsor Zither on permanent loan and am working hard trying to get the hang of playing it. Should it be played bluegrass style? That is the book I've bought, no doubt the first of many!! |
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12 Feb 09 - 01:35 PM (#2565112) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: frogprince Guest Banksie: Something you might consider; if you put "Frank Proffitt Banjos" in the search line right at the top of the threads, and select refresh for 1 year, you'll find how some folks have found fishline to be a good alternative for some banjos. |
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16 Feb 09 - 03:24 PM (#2568479) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: markymark Hi. I have a Windsor Whirle "Little Gem" 5-string banjo in original case for sale. If anyone is interested please let me know, thanks. |
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16 Feb 09 - 04:50 PM (#2568557) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: Geoff the Duck Guest Liz - there is no reason why you cannot play any style of music you wish on your Windsor zither banjo. That said, people who play bluegrass usually like a "brighter" more crisp or sharp tone from their instrument. A zither banjo is likely to produce a more mellow sound. This does not mean that you cannot play bluegrass on it if you should so wish. You pays your money and you takes your choice... I would suggest that your Windsor is more likely to sound good playing clawhammer style, but I am biased by the fact that I like clawhammer, and learned on a zither banjo which, although not branded as Windsor, is one which they will have made. Zither banjos have been played as both melody and rhythm instruments, finger style (classical banjo) and with a plectrum. When it comes to choice of what style you learn, the key is to listen to as much music in different styles and decide what sound grabs you the most. Once you have decided what you want to sound like, get back to the Mudcat and depending on where you live, someone may have suggestions for who to contact for advice, either live or online. Quack! Geoff the Duck. |
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21 Feb 09 - 08:08 AM (#2572397) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: GUEST,Alan Hi i have a 5 string Windsor premier by Arthur Windsor made in Birmingham and the back of the skin when you open it up is signed Arthur Windsor. it was played by my father who never played it again after the 2nd world war. Can anyone tell me anymore information. |
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06 Mar 09 - 06:09 PM (#2582898) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: GUEST,CHRIS EVANS AUSTRALIA I HAVE A MODEL 'D' 8 STRING IN FAIR CONDITION. ANY IDEA OF VALUE PLEASE? |
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19 Mar 09 - 09:00 PM (#2593036) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: GUEST,Teneeyl I live in Australia and have recently come across a 1928 windsor banjolin. I dont much about these things but it has the original purchase receipt, original carry case with purple velvet & all the original strings etc, its as if someone has bought it in 1935 and never touched it. Would anyone know what an approx figure this would be worth , i had a freidn give it to me and am unsure if its valuable or not. Any information would be appreciated about it. Thanks teneeyl |
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30 Apr 09 - 04:04 PM (#2622145) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: GUEST Please can some one tell me about the windsor whirle recco150220 and how much its worth many thanks mark |
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18 Jul 09 - 10:02 AM (#2682789) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: GUEST,yogi the tractor -i have a ukulele banjo windsor whirle 16 fret 4 string it is for sale where do i sell it can anyone help |
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21 Aug 10 - 11:55 AM (#2970046) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: The Sandman i have just bought a windsor whirle ambassadeur supremus 5 string for 50 euros, it has a real nip/tang to the tone, and seems playable |
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20 Nov 10 - 12:12 PM (#3036748) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: GUEST,Rob Burkinshaw I have an old Windsor 'Whirle' with the words 'Emperor Supremus' stamped on the head. It is a beautiful instrument and I gig with it regularly. Unfortunately the gearing has started to go on one of the tuning pegs. I would be grateful for any advice on where I might find a replacement. I can be reached on 07973898569. Thanks Rob |
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20 Nov 10 - 04:25 PM (#3036948) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: Geoff the Duck GUEST,Rob Burkinshaw - A quick web search seems to suggest there were a few different models with varying neck/head and tuner arrangements, plus 5-string, tenor and uke whirles. If you wanted a matching single replacement, you would need to find the right one. Depending on your banjo, it might be possible to find a set of pegs which would do the job, but wouldn't look like your originals. There are arguments for and against replacing original parts with something different, but having an instrument you can play may outweigh it not being 100% authentic. Quack! GtD. |
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20 Nov 10 - 04:37 PM (#3036958) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: Geoff the Duck There are Mudcatters who may know a repairer who stocks vintage parts, so keep watching the thread. Another place to ask might be at http://www.banjohangout.org/ Quack! Geoff. |
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22 Nov 11 - 06:08 AM (#3261382) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: GUEST,Novice Found the comments interesting and helpful.Just bought a Whirle 5 string in need of strings and vellum. would welcome any advice on recommended strings and vellum.Thanks. |
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22 Nov 11 - 06:31 AM (#3261393) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: Big Al Whittle I love Barbara Windsor! http://www.bigalwhittle.co.uk/id58.html |
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22 Nov 11 - 06:51 AM (#3261401) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: The Sandman the main problem with them if i understand correctly is lack of truss rod in the neck |
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22 Nov 11 - 08:25 AM (#3261436) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: Dave Hanson Barbara Windsor ? I'd give her a ' Whirle ' Dave H |
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23 Nov 11 - 04:40 AM (#3261929) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: Geoff the Duck GUEST,Novice - As you have a Windsor, I am assuming you are UK based? I've had good sets of strings from various brands. D'Addario, Ernie Ball, La Bella, Vega strings (now seem to be Martin/Vega), The Music Room at Cleckheaton sell Redwing, which are good quality and inexpensive. Eagle Music at Huddersfield also offer their "own brand", which I haven't tried, but would expect to be decent quality. Only you can decide if you prefer light, medium or heavy gauge strings. They can give a different feel and tone to a particular instrument. As for the vellum. you need a heavy thicker vellum specifically for banjo (Eagle Music will sell you one). A drum skin may be thinner and not take the pressure of strings pushing the bridge down. If you need advice on actually fitting the vellum, ask here. The subject has been discussed previously, and it should be possible to find the discussion without having to repeat it all here. Quack! Geoff the Duck. |
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23 Nov 11 - 04:50 AM (#3261931) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: GUEST,Novice My thanks to Geoff for his prompt and very helpful response. |
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23 Nov 11 - 04:56 AM (#3261935) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: Geoff the Duck No Problem. Quack! GtD. |
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11 Jan 12 - 04:36 PM (#3288917) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: The Sandman i had to spend 50 euros extra on mine, the action is not great but its playable and it has a real whang, cost me 100 euros total, i have it tuned low cfac capo on second fret |
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22 Apr 12 - 04:53 PM (#3341830) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: GUEST,Windsor whirle c 4 string 1928 Hi i have just bought a Windsor whirle 4 string ukulele/banjo ,it cost £100 and it is in mint condition ,i am not a good player but i know what sounds good and i love playing it ,beautiful instrument ,the owner who i bought it off tells me it was made in Birmingham 1928 and wow could he play it ,made it ring like a bell ,the only fault i can find is the edge of the frets are a little sharp but there is a tool ,so i am told that can put matters right ,the instrument came with a wooden case ,i am not sure if this is the original ,i can honestly say i would not part with this beautiful instrument for the world,like someone said it was not made ,it was built ,best wishes Brian |
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24 Oct 12 - 10:22 PM (#3425669) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: GUEST,Carol Morden Hi, my great grandfather was Arthur John Taylor, who founded the BM&G orchestra and also founded Windsor and Taylor. I'm researching my family tree and would love to know more about Arthur. I have no family members or records to turn to and wonder if anyone out there has photos or information about the days when AJT was involved in Windsor and Taylor and the BM&G orchestra. Many thanks |
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26 Feb 20 - 06:31 PM (#4036324) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: GUEST,woodbutcher I have a windsor 8 string banjo mandolin in playable condition in original case with adjusting key for valor tension and fingerboard inlay and resonator, on the badge (REC 450220) can anybody help with the date or any information would be helpful, it's on the market |
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27 Feb 20 - 06:19 AM (#4036354) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: Dave Hanson Windsor's in Birmingham was bombed during the second world war and I don't think they re-opened, so it must early 1940s at least. [ I don't think there is any truth in the rumour that Hitler ordered the bombing because he hated banjoes ] Dave H |
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27 Feb 20 - 06:37 AM (#4036356) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: GUEST,Jerry No...he had misconstrued advice and assumed it was the House of Windsor. |
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27 Feb 20 - 07:53 PM (#4036490) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: GUEST,woodbutcher Thanks I appreciate you taking the time to answer my query, it appears it is a low value instrument as I had no idea of value what so ever but I have found some of similar age fetching around £100 on ebay, if it was a Gibson that would be in a higher bracket entirely, thanks again. Johnny G. |
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27 Feb 20 - 08:23 PM (#4036494) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: GUEST,woodbutcher Sorry Dave I forgot to mention I also have a smaller windsor with 4 nylon strings of probably similar age, someone earlier mentioned been offered a windsor for £60 and might be interested in my two, by all means if you can advise further I will be grateful thanks again Johnny G, |
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28 Feb 20 - 02:56 AM (#4036521) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: Dave Hanson No-one wants banjo mandolins, bloody awful instruments, I have one which is a family heirloom but I never play it. Dave H |
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28 Feb 20 - 03:56 AM (#4036531) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: GUEST,Jerry Much depends on the condition. I rescued a Windsor No.1 tenor banjo from a junk shop about 25 years ago for about £80, and spent a fair amount having it upgraded to make it reasonably playable. However, I suspect it would be unlikely to fetch more than £100 at today’s prices, because of the easier access to decent vintage instruments via the Internet now at competitive prices. Nevertheless, an old Windsor is likely to be much better than the typical cheaply made banjos you find in non-specialist music shops. And yes, I have vintage mandolin banjo, not a Windsor, that someone gave me, but it is not just barely playable but untunable. |
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28 Feb 20 - 04:29 AM (#4036534) Subject: RE: Banjo: Windsor' Whirle ' From: Acorn4 I've had a Windsor for some time. I decided that there would be less pressure on the neck with nylon strings. It sounds OK and is good for accompanying singing:- When Grandpa Played the Banjo |