Green Guitars

22 Feb 04 - 09:43 PM (#1121485)
Subject: RE: Green Guitars
From: Leadfingers

I remember seeing Martin Simpson at Tudor Folk in Chalfont St Thingy
and he was definately playing a GREEN Guitar.And that was mumble mumble years ago.

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23 Feb 04 - 07:41 AM (#1121686)
Subject: RE: Green Guitars
From: Richard Bridge

Yamaha make some out of bamboo and glue.

Apparently they sound crap.

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23 Feb 04 - 10:27 AM (#1121799)
Subject: RE: Green Guitars
From: Bee-dubya-ell

A friend of mine has a green Yamaha. I don't think it's bamboo, but it's really a very bright green. It got stolen once, but another friend recognized it at a jam and confiscated it back from the thief. I guess there are some advantages to having an easily recognized cheap painted over piece of crap plywood guitar.

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23 Feb 04 - 12:17 PM (#1121872)
Subject: RE: Green Guitars
From: Bill D

stocks of old growth timber suitable for guitars & such are really premium items anymore. The guy who is mining the lake for sunken timber is making a fortune. I presume that 'alternate' materials will continue to be developed, but your grandchildren will play thru the nose for 'real' old wooden guitars with that 'special' quality.

(One of the reasons we have those #*&&%%$@! plastic grocery bags now, is that the long, unbroken fibers necessary for strength came from older trees, and now they cant buy any appreciable quantity...)

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23 Feb 04 - 12:34 PM (#1121881)
Subject: RE: Green Guitars
From: GUEST

Yes Leadfingers, I saw Martin Simpson with a green finished guitar in the late '80s, made by Stefan Sobell, I think he said. He described the finish as "Snotburst." I thought it very ugly in appearance.

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14 Dec 06 - 05:18 AM (#1909185)
Subject: RE: Green Guitars
From: GUEST,Chris Foster

I just happened upon this old thread and was surprised to find nobody mentioned Roger Bucknell's (Fylde Guitars) experiments with recycled wood from the malt whiskey industry. I had one made earlier this year and it's a beauty. A real head turner looks wise and a phenomenal sound for a small instrument. Check out his website www.fyldeguitars.com

He's making great whiskey mandolins too.

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14 Dec 06 - 06:10 AM (#1909219)
Subject: RE: Green Guitars
From: Scrump

Personally I don't go for the bright coloured ones - I prefer the natural finish, even for electric guitars (although I reckon a Strat looks good in bright red!)

I agree that the Fylde whisky cask ones do look good, but that still looks like a natural sort of finish to me.

I saw some disgusting bright pink guitars in a shop the other day - yuk!

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14 Dec 06 - 06:32 AM (#1909235)
Subject: RE: Green Guitars
From: skipy

? your friend has a green Yamaha? it's probably a Kawasaki unless he's had it resprayed.
Skipy, (I'll get my helmet).

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14 Dec 06 - 06:36 AM (#1909240)
Subject: RE: Green Guitars
From: The Sandman

hi Chris ive got a fylde guitar and a fylde mandolin,they are both a pleasure to play

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14 Dec 06 - 08:23 AM (#1909338)
Subject: RE: Green Guitars
From: GUEST,DonMeixner

The musical instrument industry is hardly resposible by itself for the devastation in the old growth forests. The relatively few Martin D-28
thru D-45s and the O,OO,and OOO relatives didn't destroy any rainforests in the third world. Gibson didn't either.

Lumber management is not so simple an accomplishment that species will be saved by not building elegant instruments in a traditional manner.
The world moratorium on not using third world hard woods has had the opposite effect. By devaluing the trees in such a way more mature and immature accerage has been cut up and burnt for agriculture in the last ten years than was ever cut for guitars and banjos in the last 100. Some of the land has been used for a more cost effective crop than trees. That being drug production.

Once again we are doing things stupidly on the back end because we were just as stupid on the from end.

I have this info from three prospectives. A missionary Uncle in Colombia. A nephew newsman in Cambodia,and a brother in the sustainable lumber industry.

In my mind there is nothing wrong with the Green Guitar idea at all. We should have done this from the start. Just don't allow your selve to think we are saving the ecology of the third world one guitar at a time.

We may be condeming the rain forests, old growth redwoods, and Adirondack soft woods to extinction because we begin from a postion of over use and waste in ALL aspects of industry. And then we over react when we realize how dumb and wasteful we are.

Don

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29 Nov 11 - 02:02 PM (#3265567)
Subject: RE: Green Guitars
From: Desert Dancer

Play Responsibly: Guitar Makers Seek Sustainable Sound

Sara J. Martinez
The Atlantic online
29 Nov 2011

Next time you go to smash your guitar after a particularly rocking concert, realize that you may be destroying a section of a 250-year-old spruce tree, a rare cut of mahogany, or a slice of endangered Brazilian rosewood.

Musical instruments don't use much timber, but when they do, it's usually prized wood. Large forested areas often need to be cleared in order to reach these supplies. This puts specialized, high-quality wood at a premium for luthiers, and when it comes to living species, there are some federal regulations. What will musicians do if guitar makers run out of supplies good enough to produce the right sounds?

SUSTAINABLE SOURCING

"Expensive musical instruments are a combination of many species from many different parts of the world," said Scott Paul, director of the forest campaign for Greenpeace. "In order for a musical instrument manufacturing company to become more sustainable, they have to look at the primary resources from the planet that they're using and get those resources in the most environmentally sustainable way."

The largest environmental focus for guitar manufacturers is ensuring that the wood they need will be around for centuries to come. Alternative sources just don't cut it for traditionalists, who can claim the ability to hear the difference between Indian rosewood and rosewood from Madagascar, Paul said. Still, some guitar companies are researching other ways to produce the desired tonal quality without using precious timber sources -- before it's too late.

"We have enough technology to make a really great guitar, a really beautiful guitar using alternative sources," said Henry Juszkiewicz, CEO of Gibson Guitar Company. "But it's going to take a while for me to convince people that we can do that."

Gibson has been at the center of controversy regarding its wood sourcing, the subject of two high-profile investigations regarding violation of a wildlife protection act in the past two years.

In 2008, an amendment to the 100-year-old Lacey Act added protections to forest products in an effort to curb illegal logging. The new rule makes it the responsibility of U.S. companies to ensure trading partners are obeying all laws in all countries as the timber makes its way through the supply chain.

In 2009, Justice Department officials found rosewood from Madagascar in Gibson's factory, though an investigation regarding its legality is pending. Again this past August, officials searched Gibson's Tennessee factories on claims that some rosewood and ebony obtained from India had violated laws in the source country.

"I support the idea of the Lacey Act, but I think it needs to be clarified," Juszkiewicz said. "I think the intent is right, but the law is not well formed."

Sustainable guitar making has been on Juszkiewicz's mind for a few decades and has been a focus of conservation groups since he became the company's CEO in 1986. Gibson seeks Forest Stewardship Council certification for all of the products that enter its supply chain. Additionally, Gibson funds training for small forest-dependent communities to build FSC supply and provide income for the indigenous enterprises.

"I think we have a responsibility that goes beyond just meeting lawful standards," Juszkiewicz said. "We have a responsibility to the large community we operate in to make the world better."

OTHER GREEN EFFORTS

About five years ago, Juszkiewicz came together with several competitors -- Taylor Guitars, Fender, C.F. Martin and Company -- to partner with Greenpeace in the Musicwood Coalition, a now defunct-attempt to unite guitar makers in optimizing an Alaskan forest of Sitka spruce for sustainable management.

Sitka spruce is the most important species for acoustic guitar and piano production, according to Scott Paul, director of the forest campaign for Greenpeace, because that's what the soundboard is made from.

"The guitar companies were very concerned because they traditionally won't look at a Sitka spruce tree unless it's 250 years old or older," Greenpeace's Paul said. So they spent the next few years trying to help the Sealaska corporation achieve FSC certification, and they planned to expand to other species as time went on.

While the project came to a standstill because Sealaska had cut too much acreage to qualify for certification, guitar companies are still taking other steps to improve sustainability.

"The tonewoods we use come only from a small number of producers throughout the world," said Charlie Redden, supply chain manager at Taylor Guitars. "We make it a point to visit each of our suppliers regularly and discuss with them the entire supply chain process, from forest and sustainability efforts to the local mill, to export in the origin country, to U.S. Customs."

Redden said Taylor has been working with many of the same suppliers for decades, so they have built a lot of personal history and trust. The company visits its suppliers so often that it would be difficult for an illegal product to work its way into the supply chain and violate the Lacey Act, he said.

Beyond effective supply chain management, Redden said Taylor is using innovative measures at the factory to improve sustainability rather than using alternative sources.

"An example would be Taylor's NT neck design, which creates a more playable, stable neck over a guitar's lifetime, but also allows the company to increase the number of guitar necks yielded from each tree harvested," he said.

Martin took a similar approach to eliminate waste by making some guitar models with three-piece backs, recycling smaller pieces of wood instead of using only single large pieces for guitar backs. The company is also an advocate of researching and implementing viable alternatives to rare materials. Its Alternative X model has an aluminum top, and other models use various laminates for different pieces of guitars.

WHAT COMES NEXT?

High-quality guitars might make it easy to forget that what produces that memorable tune was once a living thing. To hear the same tones in the future and make sure the same high-quality guitars can continue to be made, manufacturers are aware that necessary supplies need to be preserved.

"One of the fundamentals driving [guitar companies to new practices] was that wood was a core building material for them," said Richard Donovan, vice president of sustainable forestry for the Rainforest Alliance. "They knew they had to do something to ensure the sustainability of the raw materials that they were using on a day-to-day basis."

Juszkiewicz said that in spite of its recent legal attention, Gibson has made improvements in sustainability over the past several years. An audit in May showed that about 80 percent of materials used in the company's U.S. manufacturing were sustainably sourced, and Juszkiewicz said it should be around 95 percent next year.

The company's alleged infractions to the Lacey Act are still under investigation, and Gibson maintains its innocence. Juszkiewicz added that the enforcements were not about conservation but about enforcing obscure laws of other countries. The act is still a tough subject for the musical instrument industry.

"There is not anyone that disputes the intention of the Lacey Act," said Mary Luehrson, a spokeswoman for the National Association of Music Merchants. "We just want to find a fair and balanced, reasonable way forward to honor all of the intentions of the Lacey Act but at the same time not create this huge burden of personal liability around people who really are seeking to do their business fairly."

NAMM representatives visited Capitol Hill earlier this month to support a House bill that Luehrson said would add clarification to the Lacey Act. [my emphasis ~DD]

The Rainforest Alliance recommends that companies protect themselves by making sure their supply chain management systems use third-party audits to verify the legality of forest products. While verification methods don't guarantee a company's protection from prosecution, they will help to spot problems before they arise.

"Deforestation has become a serious problem for the environment and the communities living there," said Redden of Taylor Guitars. "Not only do we want to source from sustainable forests, but one of our goals is to educate and lead those producers who are working in unsustainable situations now so we can help save the forests for future generations."

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This page from NAMM has a number of links on House Res. 3210, the "Retailers and Entertainers Lacey Implementation and Enforcement Fairness" Act, or "RELIEF" Act.

Note: A more recent thread on the 2009 and 2011 Gibson raids/investigations by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (who enforce the Lacey Act), with discussion especially of the ramifications of the Lacey Act for individual guitar owners is
here.

~ Becky in Long Beach

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