Martha Stewart found Guilty

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Martha Stewart found Guilty

05 Mar 04 - 03:05 PM (#1129965)
Subject: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: InOBU

It is just coming over the TV live.... SELL YOUR STOCK IN K-MART!

05 Mar 04 - 03:15 PM (#1129970)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Clinton Hammond

Big fat hairy deal....

05 Mar 04 - 03:17 PM (#1129972)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Stilly River Sage

No, don't sell your stock in K-Mart. Scratch your head and wonder how in hell the scuzballs at Enron and Tyco and Worldcom and such are still out walking around for major offenses against thousands of their employees who lost their retirement and often much more, and then wonder how it is they managed to stack the deck against Martha for what amounts to something that she should get a fine for. The news is saying a "prison term is likely."

Appeal Appeal Appeal, Martha!

The American Justice system would put non-violent otherwise harmless people in prison to do what? "Set an example?" Get real.

SRS

05 Mar 04 - 03:18 PM (#1129974)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Little Hawk

As if I had stock in K-Mart...

05 Mar 04 - 03:19 PM (#1129975)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: InOBU

No, this is huge, Clinton! For example, is she going to broadcast from the jail? How to dress up your cell with things you find in jail, making wall hangings out of bread, its a good thing... I expect folk songs to follow!

05 Mar 04 - 03:21 PM (#1129976)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: InOBU

Actually SRS, as right as you are, folks who worked for her can tell you that this behavior is typical of her rather selfish way of looking at the world. I wish her well, and wish bigger fish would be held to task, like the bUsh babies in the S&L scam... but, well, let's not make a saint of the poor thing. Cheers Larry

05 Mar 04 - 03:23 PM (#1129977)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Peace

Hey, Thomas the Rhymer:

Condolences.

Bruce M

05 Mar 04 - 03:45 PM (#1129992)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: dianavan

How much money are we talking about anyway? I think what she did was very small potatoes compared to what the big boys do on a daily basis. She's being scapegoated for being an uppity female.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a fan. But why single her out when there are so many other fish to fry?

d

05 Mar 04 - 03:50 PM (#1129997)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: InOBU

Well... she IS going to appeal, small amount of money, which does not really matter, it is about intent to steal money from other investors by using inside info to cut and run and let the little guys in the stock pay the price of a falling value. Cheers Larry

05 Mar 04 - 03:52 PM (#1129998)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: GUEST,petr

thats exactly right, Dianavan
theyre going after Martha Stewart - but not the Ken Lay and his enron buddies, worldcom and all the other bastards.
dont forget Bush himself dumped half a million of some stock a few years ago one day before it tanked.

05 Mar 04 - 04:08 PM (#1130007)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: EBarnacle

The people has spoken...

but they mumble and stand in the corner.

05 Mar 04 - 04:16 PM (#1130012)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Irish sergeant

Better they should get after Dick Cheney's buddies in Enron and Haliburton Bruce, may I ask where you're from? just curious, (My Brother is also named Bruce and our last name is MacMillan. Kindest regards, Neil

05 Mar 04 - 04:20 PM (#1130014)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Peace

It ain't an either/or thing. She has been declared guilty for stuff that isn't good. So, that's that.

However, the other questions are legit. Why DO so many other crooks get away with it?

The tone of some posts above is that unless you convicet from the top down, it ain't fair. It is fair that she has been found guilty. That's what trials are for. But it would be fair also if some other people were found guilty.

05 Mar 04 - 04:31 PM (#1130023)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: jeffp

By selling stock that she knew from inside information would sharply decrease in value, she essentially defrauded whoever bought that stock from her.

05 Mar 04 - 04:49 PM (#1130034)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: pdq

jeffp...well put! Please think about the people who bought the stock in good faith and lost a bundle. They are working people, retirees, Union members, poor and rich alike. How would you feel if 30% of your pension fund was invested in that stock. You would feel exactly the same as the suckers who were cheated by Enron.

05 Mar 04 - 05:02 PM (#1130042)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: JohnInKansas

There's a slightly cynical, but quite appropriate, "mantra" in the legal profession that says that you can't pass a law that prevents something from happening. All the law can do is state "how much it's gonna cost you to do it."

From all the information (extracted from amongst hoopla and hysteria) it appears that poor Martha did do something for which it was appropriate that she be charged. The jury has agreed. As brucie says, "that's that."

While the charges were apparently appropriate, I find it objectionable that the Justice Department did apparently try to trade on her "notoriety" to make a public spectacle of the trial. The media "blood frenzy" was even worse, but it's what happens now.

Of course, even after a conviction, there's still the "sentencing" to be determined. For a case like Martha's, this should be pretty routine, but in all likelihood will not be. We have a couple of local thieves who were similarly convicted some time ago. One, whose conviction was more than two years ago (after a two year trial), has just received his seventh postponement of sentencing, and will probably manage to delay it until they can make a case for "time served" when it finally comes up. (He's "serving time" by continuing pretty much business as usual?) Of course, he has been paying(?) those lawyers for four years now, and the guy who "abetted" his crime is in jail so he's lost atleast one source of income...

But hey - since they got rid of the lions at the Collesium, it's the only spectacle in town.

John

05 Mar 04 - 05:12 PM (#1130050)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Charley Noble

I seem to recall that Martha made over $50,000 selling when she did, and saved much more after the stock plummeted. That's more than enough to my mind to put her away for taking advantage of "insider trading." No more smirks from Martha.

Sure, there are bigger fish in the sea and I hope they get what they deserve as well.

Charley Noble

05 Mar 04 - 06:44 PM (#1130107)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: freightdawg

Already posted to the other Martha thread. I'm stunned that the jury convicted. I hope that this verdict does send a message that the Feds will go after anyone who rips off their stockholders and others. From what I've heard there are convictions, or at least plea bargains, in the Enron, Global Crossing, etc, cases. The big boys have yet to put on orange jumpsuits, but as the little fish turn belly up they will only be too happy to share their new living quarters. The major problem with the really big boys (Ken Lay, etc) is that they have insulated themselves with so many layers of "plausible deniability" that it takes a snitch to blow up the ring. I hope they all rot in prison - maybe they can get decorating ideas from Martha.

Now that I've mixed enough metaphors to make my own head hurt, I'll just quit growling and go lay down in the corner.

Freightdawg

05 Mar 04 - 07:06 PM (#1130119)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: GUEST,sorefingers

Jealousy finds profit guilty for being there!

What a bunch of trash heads! When Pastors pay liars for lies and threats, when cronies walk with old folks savings/retirement, when lies thieves and more liars rule the roost, then the likes of Soros, Murdoch and a few more blood suckers are rubbing their hands and salivating about the rich pickings to be had, ie your last few bucks!

Waken up. If anybody and I mean anybody had been in her position on the day they would have done the same thing! And what she did is NOT against the law in most countries anyway, it is regarded as legitimate business practice. They did to her what they sucessfully did to Bill Clinton - scared her into doing something trivial and then punisher her for that. Shame shame shame on it!

05 Mar 04 - 07:53 PM (#1130140)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Jim Dixon

"The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet." – Damon Runyon
"Juries are not always right, but that's the way to bet." – me.

However, if the verdict seems unfair, it may be the fault of the law, not the jury.

It used to be you could be convicted of lying (perjury) only if you were under oath. That was the whole point of making people take oaths before giving testimony. I think there was a recent change in the law that made it a crime to lie to any government official, even if you're not under oath, even if you haven't been given any warning that you're under investigation, even if what you're lying about isn't relevant to what is being investigated.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. And in this case, I hope I am wrong. And if I'm right, isn't that kind of scary?

05 Mar 04 - 09:03 PM (#1130164)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Thomas the Rhymer

Oh, unfathomable grief, this misery's moment...

bum bum bum...
Martha my dear though I spend my days in conversation
Please
Remember me Martha my love
Don't forget me Martha my dear

          Hold your head up you silly girl look what you've done
          When you find yourself in the thick of it
          Help yourself to a bit of what is all around you
          Silly Girl.

          Take a good look around you
          Take a good look you're bound to see
          That you and me were meant to be for each other
          Silly girl.

          Hold your hand out you silly girl see what you've done
          When you find yourself in the thick of it
          Help yourself to a bit of what is all around you
          Silly girl.

          Martha my dear you have always been my inspiration
          Please
          Be good to me    Martha my love
          Don't forget me Martha my dear.

ttr

05 Mar 04 - 09:31 PM (#1130168)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: GUEST

I see, because some other scum got away with it Martha should too?

05 Mar 04 - 11:31 PM (#1130196)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: GUEST,sorefingers

Got away with what? She did what the average trader does everyday, sold on a tip.

06 Mar 04 - 12:08 AM (#1130212)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: GUEST,Johnny in OKC

Read the verdict again. They didn't charge her with
insider trading. That charge was dismissed. They found
her guilty of lying to the Feds, covering up.

But I'll eat a bug for every day she spends in jail.

Johnny in OKC

06 Mar 04 - 09:04 AM (#1130334)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Greg F.

Now, if she'd lied about consensual sex, on the other hand....

Another spoiled, rich, obnoxious brat caught with a hand in the cookie jar. Sympathy? Puh-leeze!

06 Mar 04 - 10:15 AM (#1130357)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: GUEST,sorefingers

Ok OKC and Greg.

The fact remains that what she did is legal in 99% of exchanges all around the globe. Now I suspect the dollar will fall the rest of the way into the trash as foreign agencies pull out of Wall Street.

06 Mar 04 - 10:58 AM (#1130373)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Uncle_DaveO

INOBU said (and others more or less echoed):

Well... she IS going to appeal, small amount of money, which does not really matter, it is about intent to steal money from other investors by using inside info to cut and run and let the little guys in the stock pay the price of a falling value.

Au contraire, mon frere!

She was NOT charged with insider trading or stock fraud. Frankly, I don't think they could have made that stick. She was charged with the attempt to cover up, the attempted destruction of evidence, that kind of thing. I think that if she hadn't done that she would have got off, either entirely or nearly so.

Dave Oesterreich

06 Mar 04 - 11:09 AM (#1130378)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Charley Noble

Here's a follow-up on a Maine experience with Martha that I mentioned above. In today's Portland Press Herald there's an article about the Bar Harbor "limousine driver whose close encounter with Stewart went sour" who organized a "conviction party" at the Holiday Inn in Ellsworth.

"The malicious merriment at the expense of the diva of design was organized by Richard Anderson, who, as Stewart fans and foes will recall, made fast enemies with Stewart in August 2000. Anderson, a limousine driver, claims Stewart held him captive in her driveway (blocking his escape with her SUV) when he and the six-women bachelorette party he was chauffering made a wrong turn in Stewart's swanky Seal Harbor neighborhood...'It's her attitude,' said Anderson. 'She thinks she's different than everybody else. She thinks she's better than everybody else. She's not very well-liked up this way.'"

There's probably enough good lines in this story for some more verses, TTR.

Do you suppose she will ever express remorse for her actions, which as a former stockbroker she should have known were illegal? No doubt she is remorseful that she was caught and convicted but that is not the same thing.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

06 Mar 04 - 12:25 PM (#1130405)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Amos

I did NOT have sex with that stock issue...

Hmmm....

06 Mar 04 - 12:42 PM (#1130411)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Thomas the Rhymer

"'It's her attitude,' said Anderson. 'She thinks she's different than everybody else. She thinks she's better than everybody else. She's not very well-liked up this way.'"

Now, where have I heard that before...?

When I dragged my sorry ass BMW from the lot, for a paltry sum, and about a thousand follow up calls... I had to have it towed to my house. After getting it to run at all, I found that the wheels hit the fenders, and it would start to slide sideways on a straight crowned road, if it rained... scary indeed. I was the laughing stock of the neighborhood... "what an idiot"... throwing his money away... wasting his time... a millionaire couldn't afford to fix that pile of sh-t...

But when I (somewhat) repaired it by myself... with elbow grease, used parts, and copious amounts of cursing... and drove it every day...

The gossip changed.

I became a 'money laundering' co-conspirator... a spoilt silver spooned sympathizer to the countryclub domination commitee... Undoubtedly a snob... A 'Grand Larceny' sweepstakes winner... All manner of "mean nasty terrible things..."

I don't know... Write and perform a decent song... and about ten percent of the audience will hate you for it... "prima donna" emerges from the ashes of a dork... ;^)

Clearly with scarcely any social graces whatsoever,
ttr

06 Mar 04 - 07:00 PM (#1130578)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Charley Noble

Speaking of amazing grace, TTR:

Amazing gauche, how tart the sound,
That served a wench like me,
I once was free but now I'm bound,
For the penitentiary!

Come on, Amos, let's get into the spirit of this tragedy!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

06 Mar 04 - 07:04 PM (#1130582)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Amos

"Farewell Martha Stewart, your rock-bound hide
May your jail cell blue and ochre be....
With fine finials on the corners of the cot
And a faux-stress finish on the WC..."

06 Mar 04 - 07:22 PM (#1130593)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Thomas the Rhymer

Boo hoo for you two...

That's my girl you're messin' with! ;^)
Sorry guys... I'm not going to put her down... She worked hard to get where she was. I'm strong of feeling on this one. I've got a sense that there's much more than 'meets the eye'. Snickering up yer coat sleeve doesn't make you look particularly keen...

I am sad that she has gone so head on into business... I'm hoping this little courtly occasion will help her to reset her priorities... Imagine what she could do for kids!
ttr

06 Mar 04 - 07:51 PM (#1130606)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Chief Chaos

I agree that anybody in her shoes would probably do the same.
I had thought that insider trading was limited to the purchase or sale of stock by someone inside the company (thus the term "insider"). Live and learn.

THe thing about lying to the investigator has been around for years. If you are being asked a question by a federal agent and you are acting in an official capacity, you can be sharged with "Making a flase official statement" which in plain english would be lying.

After hearing about both Bush's sale of his stock before one of his company's went belly up and some of the trades made by Chaney that amount to the same thing (not to mention how he claims not to be working for Haliburton when everyone knows he's pulling in pension from them) I hope that somebody somewhere uses it against them.

And to think a $47K loss by Clinton was enough to launch an investigation that after $70M netted him for lying before Congress about consensual sex! Oy!

06 Mar 04 - 08:04 PM (#1130611)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Charley Noble

Amos-

I knew you could come up with something if you applied yourself.

Yes, I am indulging in mean-spirited behavior and with respect to an icon like Martha it's fun!

Sorry for your loss, Thomas.

Cheerily,
Charley Ignoble

06 Mar 04 - 08:29 PM (#1130622)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Thomas the Rhymer

Help yourself to the icon, Charley... It's all yours; knock yerself out!! ;^)

I'ts Martha I want...

Can't you see it now? The run down farm house... the newlyweds (us)... hard at work, breathing new life into the old tried and true scenario... coordinating colors, shapes and living spaces into a beatifully articulate feng-shui of luscious living...?

Well... one can dream now can't one?
ttr

06 Mar 04 - 08:42 PM (#1130627)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: GUEST

When Martha Stewart went IPO, I thought investing in a TV image was sheer stupidity. It'd be like investing in Michael Jackson, or Jimmy Swaggart, or anyone whose reputation could wind up in the dumpster on any given day. It's risky to invest in stock whose value depends on a person's integrity.

06 Mar 04 - 09:23 PM (#1130636)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Amos

Aw, Thomas, I yam sorry. It isn't the lydie I am mocking but the foppery of the position into which she has manuvered herself.

If she asks me, I will recommend that she run away with you to Bucks County. Can't be fairer than that!

A

06 Mar 04 - 09:48 PM (#1130651)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: catspaw49

And try not to mention BMW and Martha Stewart in the same breath. They exist at opposite ends of the Integrity Spectrum! Heidi, my 528e, is extremely insulted and expects an immediate, sincere, apology.

Spaw

06 Mar 04 - 10:10 PM (#1130665)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Thomas the Rhymer

Not a chance Heidi... Just cause you're reliable, great looking, and handle fantasticly... and you're comfortable, really well designed, totally rebuildable and fast as hell... You'll never be a Stuart... you're a car. Martha's got ya beat on that one, sweety...

Sorry spaw... 'ats how it is.
ttr

06 Mar 04 - 10:36 PM (#1130673)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: catspaw49

I read your post to her out in the garage and she is very pleased with your understanding of her lineage and as she is aging nicely she can tell you are a fine fellow with an appreciation of her finer points as well. She also says she is happy to be an automobile as she and her Bavarian sisters believe that to be a far higher calling than being a mere human of any name.

Spaw (& Heidi)

06 Mar 04 - 11:38 PM (#1130690)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Thomas the Rhymer

No doubt... I have to ask Hilda very nicely in the morning if she would be inclined to take me to work... and after many appologies for the mud I park her in, and bugs I haven't gotten around to washing off... and promising to test her cornering abilities shamelessly... and park her 'nose out'... and smile knowingly with all her sisters' caretakers... she breathes her fire proudly, and we go together.

We do have a 'don't ask, don't tell' policy about the replacement parts... I just don't have the nerve to tell her that it's really a 'wrecking yard' we go to... I'm pretty sure she thinks its the car hospital, and I'm an intern or something...
ttr

07 Mar 04 - 12:11 AM (#1130705)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: catspaw49

It's a good policy Thomas. I don't think they really notice the source so long as they know you care.

Spaw

07 Mar 04 - 05:06 PM (#1131132)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Blackcatter

Interesting isn't it that you can be punished for covering something up for which they can't find a way to punish you.

I recently had contact with a fellow church member who shoplifted $5.00 worth of food from the local grocery. He was told by the security guad who caught him that there are now 3 levels of charges possible during a shoplifting escapade. From minimal to worst: If you are stopped inside the store but past the check out "with the intention to leave the store with the items) that is one crime. Walking out the door is an additional level of crime. Add to that resisting arrest by the security people (not the police) is another lever. That includes anything other than immediately surrendering when the peorson comes up to you and stops you (in or out of the store).

The police love to heap loads of chages on you in order to almost force you to enter a plea so that the courts won't be bothered by your life.

Sheesh.

08 Mar 04 - 12:14 PM (#1131520)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: JenEllen

Oh, don't fret, TTR. Look what prison time did for folks like Leadbelly, or Merle Haggard, or the Blues Brothers... She may come out of this even better than she went in.

08 Mar 04 - 12:51 PM (#1131553)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: catspaw49

Geeziz JE....What a hideous thought! I tell ya', if she releases an album titled, "Martha Does The Best of Leadbelly," I'm getting a rifle......

Spaw

08 Mar 04 - 01:06 PM (#1131565)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Amos

Just imagine what she could do to a 12-string with some of that spray-on faux distress paint and a little piece of cotton batting. The mind boggles!

A

08 Mar 04 - 11:52 PM (#1131968)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: harpgirl

I was disappointed in this verdict. I asked my 80 year old
Republican ex-stockbroker father ("The Navigator" on Mudcat)what he thought and he agreed with me that it was a minor, minor issue and that it was a shame they hadn't gone after Kenneth Lay properly yet for what he did. When it comes to white collar crime, he agreed that Martha was just not in the same league as Kenneth Lay. It surprised me but then my father is pretty darn smart. harp

09 Mar 04 - 12:52 PM (#1132189)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Charley Noble

Harp-

Saving $52,000 on insider information from one's broker may not be millions but it's still a major crime and I'm pleased she and her broker were convicted. I'm still not sure if her only recognized crimes were her attempts to cover up her tracks and lying to investigators.

Still, I find it very difficult to empathize with her current situation. She was ripping off a system that she was extremely familar with, being a former stockbroker and a member of the Stock Exchange board. She should be held to a high standard.

And let's go after the rest of the rip-off artists.

Charley Noble

09 Mar 04 - 01:39 PM (#1132235)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Stilly River Sage

The charges of insider trading were dropped before the trial, Charley. She wasn't found guilty of that. And the charge that she was somehow tampering with the value of her own stock by protesting her innocence was dropped by the judge.

What's left? Apparently she didn't (or couldn't) take the fifth when answering questions of the investigators. They found her guilty of not cooperating with the investigation.

That's a big difference.

SRS

09 Mar 04 - 04:23 PM (#1132404)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: GUEST,petr

even though insider trading charges may be hard to prove (which is probably why those charges were dropped)
(unless you tapped the phone call) you can be fined by (securities commission? - the stock market regulators) and prevented from further trading, they dont need the same proof as the criminal courts

09 Mar 04 - 05:07 PM (#1132438)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Charley Noble

SRS and other Concerned Defenders of Martha Stewart-

Thanks for the clarification. So she was convicted on attempting a cover-up and lying to the investigators. I frankly think she's guilty of the insider trader charge but I'll take what I can get.

So, do you really think Martha is being too harshly dealt with or are you simply playing lawyer? The jury seems unanimous on her conviction. And most commentators think she has no grounds for appeal.

Enlighten us some more.

Charley Noble

09 Mar 04 - 05:51 PM (#1132472)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Stilly River Sage

Charley, I think there is politics as usual going on here, and as others have remarked, the Justice Department went looking for a soft target to use as an "example" for the Big Boys they're trying to do something about. It's apples and oranges as far as I'm concerned. (But I won't be surprised if it comes out later that John Ashcroft sicced his guys on Mawtha because she's some kind of castrating female. . .)

My irritation with the justice system is of long standing, however, not just with this case.

I detest these "Three Strikes" laws that take away the ability of the judge to actually do his or her job and JUDGE and sentence people based on what unique evidence and testimony is presented and NOT based on a special interest penalty set by the legislature and mandated sentencing guidelines. These are usually pushed into law one by one by bereaved families. John Doe commits a nasty crime, and had "X" "Y" and "Z" on his record. If he acted this way in this case, then there must be only one way in which someone else with the same set of circumstances will act, so those others are also axe murderers, etc. If they come before the court, then there is no hope of any extenuating circumstances being listened to, and as far as victims of one crime are concerned, you can throw away the key on anyone else who even smells like the first guy. There have been a colossal number of really stupid sentencings with these legislated sentences.

In this country where we are more and more often imprisoning mentally ill people and trying children as adults, and sending non-violent offenders to prison, I have to echo the 90's exercise guru Susan Powter and say "Stop the Insanity!" Different context, same passion.

Despite your conclusion that she was doing insider trading, Martha Stewart wasn't charged or convicted of it. She is caught up in a stupid justice system that has been haywire for years. Hers was a "victimless" crime in that if she had done this one trade as they suggest, someone else who was gambling money on the stock exchange lost money in that transaction, not knowing the stock would temporarily tank. (It is now back up to that previous high, by the way, because they have another drug that is proving to be a winner). Restitution and censure would have taken care of it. For those folks who tumbled entire institutions, who bankrupted states with their price fixing and stock dealings and collusion, those are the folks the Justice Department needs to concentrate on. But since it's going so slowly, it looks like someone decided it was time for a little hot dogging. Hence, the Martha Stewart trial.

SRS

09 Mar 04 - 09:49 PM (#1132677)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Charley Noble

SRS-

I do agree with 90% of what you're saying about the current state of our Federal injustice system. In fact your arguments probably apply to how it has functioned for the past 20 years or longer.

And it's probably true that the prosecutors targeted Martha once they realized they had a celebrity to exploit but then she made the mistake of thinking she could bluff her way out of it. I'm still pleased to see her convicted. There probably will be a book about her trial and incarceration but I believe if she authors it she'd not be permiited to profit from the sales.

Let's keep our eyes on the bigger fish.

Charley Noble

09 Mar 04 - 11:52 PM (#1132751)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Stilly River Sage

Shana Alexander will probably write it. If you're not familiar with her, look up Jean Harris, Patty Hearst, and probably any number of other difficult stories and you'll find she has written about them. Do you remember years ago on 60 Minutes when she debated from the left with James Kirkpatrick on the right? She became more of a household word with the Saturday Night Live skits that ended with "Shana you slut!" but regardless of that, her style of research and writing are second to none.

SRS

10 Mar 04 - 09:25 AM (#1132967)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: harpgirl

Charley, I don't consider myself as eloquent on the subject as SRS is;however I come from a business oriented family (my father was a Merrill Lynch VP for many years), I invest and watch the market closely, and I run my own small business successfully.

Insider trading is done by the executives and members of the Boards of Directors of companies. Martha was neither in ImClone and could not then be accused of insider trading. Her broker alerted her to the family dumping their stock. Any good broker would do this for a good customer. Savy investors go in and out of the market in large chunks almost daily. That's what we want our mutual fund managers to do to make us a profit. Watching the activity on Omnimedia yesterday, I noticed two institutions trading in and out all day long in large chunks. Where did they get their information? This happens continually in the stock market each and every day.

We don't know if she truly attempted to lie and then changed her mind. She didn't even take the stand. Her lawyers did a poor job defending her; of that I'm sure. Nevertheless, changing ones mind about lying is not a crime, I don't think. I just don't see how she can be convicted of anything if she didn't insider trade to begin with.

I just think she became a convenient scapegoat for the Ashcroft crowd to take the heat off all the Bush buddies who are getting off scott-free while they loot the public, like Kenneth Lay, Dick Cheney, and all the other unindicted co-conspirators in the Bush administration.

Martha is only guilty of greed, hubris, and a bad personality, imo.

10 Mar 04 - 10:02 AM (#1133006)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Raptor

Chicken Soup for the Tarts Soul!:

Take one full chicken

Boil in water

Dump the stock

Stew in jail

Raptor

10 Mar 04 - 03:03 PM (#1133254)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: GUEST,jaze

I can't get past the fact that the Gov't spent 40 million dollars on this and she only gained about $50,000. That's alot of money to make an example of someone.

10 Mar 04 - 07:09 PM (#1133421)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: GUEST,sorefingers

Yeah and jaze - look at the smoke screen that they made for the likes of
World Com and the real villians of the Stock Racket!

Martha Stewart is not a criminal - but the same as any other tip tradin stock slinger. DOW down ... oh well just it says in the manual - bad news = stuff falling in the poopbin!

21 May 04 - 03:31 PM (#1190981)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Stilly River Sage

Well lookee here! I see this open and shut case unravelling a tad!

RPT-Federal agent charged with perjury in Stewart case

SRS

21 May 04 - 03:37 PM (#1190990)
Subject: RE: Martha Stewart found Guilty
From: Stilly River Sage

That other piece came out of Forbes online, here's a bit longer one: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040521.wmartha0521/BNStory/Business/

And this is an AP story from the Dallas Morning News:

Associated Press

NEW YORK – Federal authorities Friday charged a government witness from the Martha Stewart trial with perjury, accusing him of giving false testimony. Prosecutors said they had discovered two false statements made on the stand by Larry F. Stewart, a national ink expert who works at the Secret Service. The government said it had uncovered eight separate false statements made by Larry Stewart on the stand. Larry Stewart is no relation to Martha Stewart.

Martha Stewart was convicted March 5 of lying about why she sold 3,928 shares of ImClone Systems stock in 2001, just before the stock price plunged. During the trial, Larry Stewart testified that a notation of "(at)60" on a worksheet that codefendant Peter Bacanovic used to track Stewart's portfolio had been made in a different ink than other marks on the sheet. Larry Stewart of the Secret Service said infrared and ultraviolet light tests had confirmed differences between the "(at)60" entry and other marks.

"The '(at)60' entry is a different ink than the remaining entries on the document," the scientist said. The worksheet, among the most critical pieces of government evidence in the trial, is a summary of gains and losses in 36 stocks Martha Stewart owned in late 2001 at Merrill Lynch & Co. Among the alleged false statements by Larry Stewart was that he took part in an August 2002 examination of the worksheet. Under cross-examination, the ink expert had testified it was impossible to tell how many pens had been used to mark on the document. Bacanovic's team contends he simply used different pens in his work.

SRS