06 Mar 04 - 11:42 PM (#1130693) Subject: Tuning an Irish whistle From: GUEST,Richard H I was raised on the Clarke tinwhistle and have no experience with plastic mp types. However I've been given two of these (Ds) which I would like to use at a St.Patrick's Day gig. The Walton's (Soodlum) is sweeter but way sharp on all notes. The Feadog is more in tune but not as clear. Geraldine Cotter's tutor says of the plastic mp type "the mouthpiece is moveable so you can tune it to other instruments..." The mouthpieces on the ones I have can't be moved by reasonable force. Should I get unreasonable or does Geraldine's statement apply to better quality instruments? |
07 Mar 04 - 12:45 AM (#1130715) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: GUEST,guest Put it on a grinder and it will get sharp. Hit it with a hammer and it will go flat. |
07 Mar 04 - 01:00 AM (#1130719) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Blackcatter F-off guest. Richard - you can "tune" some whistles. Go to the following website. They have advice on tuning. Chiff & Fipple Some mouthpieces can be loosened with a bit of warm water. Their attached with glue so the water can melt it, but be careful - too hot of water may melt the mouthpiece itself. Most whistles are only marginally tuneable, however. Oftentimes it's easier for the guitar to tune to the whistle. Good luck and definately check out the above link - it is the best web source for whistles. I don't buy an whistles without checking there first and I have 30 of them. |
07 Mar 04 - 04:42 AM (#1130745) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: GUEST,Guest Blackcatter, You tell me to F-off? You are obviously a humourless idiot. It was a joke, for christsake! I plays whistles meself so I knows 'ow to tune 'em. The problem is that most cheap whistles are not in tune with themselves. Like James Galway did with the flute (redesign the hole spacing and diameter), the whistle manufacturers need to recalculate the holes for each key to make each one properly "tempered". If you don't believe me, use a digital tuner to check every note on the whistles you own in all three registers - you'll throw about half of them away! |
07 Mar 04 - 06:03 AM (#1130763) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Leadfingers Holding the mouthpiece under a hot tap is usually enough to break the seal of the adhesive.The mouthpice can then be moved out to flatten the pitch. If its a D whistle tune to the centre notes - the G or the A as this will minimise any inbuilt errors in the finger holes.I dont normally respond at all to anonymous posts but our Guest is correct in that there is often an error in tuning on the lower priced whistles, AND sometimes on the pricier ones too.I wont buy a whistle without trying it out for tuning AND the ability to get into the third register. |
07 Mar 04 - 08:09 AM (#1130799) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Jeri Some whistles aren't tuned to equal temperment. Unfortunately, that's what your electronic thingie reads, so the whistle appears to be out of tune with itself. It means it could be a bit iffy playing with fixed pitch instruments, but most people won't really hear the difference. It's also possible to change the pitch a bit by blowing harder or softer, so it could be 'operator error'. Some are just rotten whistles, but Feadog and Walton's are supposed to be good ones. I've tried the hot water dipping thing, and not melted the mouthpiece on average of 1 time out of 4. It may be a personal problem. Go to the Chiff & Fipple site Blackcatter linked to - it has a ton of information, and it's just plain fun to read. |
07 Mar 04 - 09:09 AM (#1130817) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: GUEST Try the OVERTON WHISTLE site too. |
07 Mar 04 - 10:26 AM (#1130862) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: GUEST,Richard H Thanks all especially for the link to Chiff and Fipple. The guitarist has decided this year to play his 12-string (need I say more?) which usually goes out of tune after every capoing. With me mainly dabbling in mandolin, guitar and recorder and a bassman thrown in, plus the guitarist's sax friend may drop by to play Danny Boy, tuning to the whistle would be a problem. So the water's on the fire and it's do or die for the Soodlum. |
07 Mar 04 - 04:09 PM (#1131090) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: s&r run hot water on the metal part of the whistle - conduction will melt the glue - or, give a sharp tap using a ring spanner around the body of the whistle and sliding it down sharply to hit the mouthpiece stu |
07 Mar 04 - 05:14 PM (#1131138) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Blackcatter Sorry GUEST, Guest - but it's one thing to joke and add constructive help (like you did in your second post), that to jsut post a negative statement. Richard could have seen your first post and decided that we're not nice and helpful around here and have left. That's not fair for someone (especially someone who has not registered here) to do in my opinion. Just to show you there's no hard feelings - I'm going to go f*** myself leater on this evening. Sone if the "cheap" whistles are wonderfully in tune. You need to pick and choose, but some of my Clarkes and Generations are among my favorites. |
07 Mar 04 - 11:26 PM (#1131378) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: GUEST,Richard H Don't worry, Blackcatter. I was in no way offended. Besides, if this damn mouthpiece doesn't come off tommorow, I may have to resort to Guest's advice and use a hammer to flatten it. So far it's been totally unresponsive to hot water. But, hell, I've learned a lot today. Like Chiff and Fipple, how much an Overton costs, that a tinwhistle has a third register... I even used the translation facility on this site to check how a pertinent phrase in your last post sounds in French: "Je vais aller *** de f moi-meme plus tard ce soir" is what came out. Sounds good! |
07 Mar 04 - 11:36 PM (#1131381) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Blackcatter Auf Deutsch: "Ich werde später gehen f *** selbst heute abend." Glad another whistle player nows about Chiff & Fipple. It's one of my 4 favorite music websites: The Mudcat Chiff & Fipple The Jews Harp Guild Blackcatter's World of TV Theme Lyrics Of course, I host the last one . . . |
08 Mar 04 - 09:43 AM (#1131388) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Dave the Gnome I thought f off was a key for an out of tune whistle... :D |
08 Mar 04 - 10:15 AM (#1131427) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: GUEST,Guest Blackcatter, have fun, send us the video. All whistle players should have that joke in their collection. Richard H, I've had whistles that refuse to come apart. Sometimes, as a last resort, you have to revert to brute force and ignorance. I once made a small tool with two pieces of wood with a hole (slightly smaller than the dimeter of the pipe) drilled so that each piece had a semiciscular groove that would clamp the metal part of the whistle in a vise without squashing the pipe. I used a very small pipe wrench on the plastic bit. The secret is not to try to twist it off but to turn the pipe wrench tight till it is almost to the point of turning then give the handle end of the pipe wrench a sharp tap with a hammer to break the seal. This tends to crack the plastic about 50% of the time(I did say it was a last resort), so if you really need to have a tuneable whistle you should buy at least two in the same key in the first place. The method above gets the metal pipe off in one piece, you then have to try to cut, bend, bash and saw the pipe to get the plastic bit off in one piece from the second whistle. S&R's method with the ring spanner (wrench) will also work using the wooden vise jig to hold the pipe steady. I really wasn't joking about the grinder, either. The plastic part has a stop inside it, designed to set the whistle at that key. Getting the plastic bit off only allows you to "flatten" the instrument. By grinding a little bit off the end of the metal pipe (the end that goes into the plastic part), you can then push the pipe farther in than it originally went to also "sharpen" the whistle. Not every unplayable whistle is completely useless. I found an old C whistle was exactly the right diameter to release a "quick-fit" connector on the hose of my car's fuel pump! |
08 Mar 04 - 01:30 PM (#1131588) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: jimmyt Let me throw in a question to piggyback on this excellent thread. I have a set of Tony DIxon WHistles recommended by Leadfingers, and by and large I really love them. The last couple times I have played the g whistle though in a session I have noticed the upper register has flaws in it, ie with the same amount of airflow on any other whistle it would easily play well in the upper register, but this G won't hold the register playing quietly. It is not related to technique as it didn't happen a couple weeks ago asn it only happens on this whistle. Could this be related to crud in the fipple or something gross like that? How frequently to you clean your whistles? i am sort of a newcomer to the instrument so be gentle with me! Thanks jimmyt |
08 Mar 04 - 04:39 PM (#1131723) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: GUEST,leeneia |
08 Mar 04 - 06:36 PM (#1131785) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: s&r A whistle maker whose name escapes me swears that if you fill the small recess inside and just below the mouthpiece with blutack or similar the whistle overblows in key. Something to do with the turbulence Stu |
08 Mar 04 - 11:35 PM (#1131963) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: GUEST,leeneia The original post mentioned a whistle that plays in tune but is not clear. Perhaps it has the problem one of my whistles had - when the maker drilled the holes, the filings (swarf) were left clinging to the edge of the hole inside the whistle. Such craftsmanship! My sister-in-law took a whistle class from at Milwaukee's Irishfest. She said, "The teacher could play so beautifully. Of course, he had a $150 penny whistle." I play recorder and flute and have gone to a number of workshops with high-caliber teachers. One thing I've learned is that these instruments respond to your breathing and the shape of your mouth. Today I picked up a whistle and changed the three-finger note by a half step just by moving the tip of my tongue parallel to the roof of my mouth. So it isn't just a question of putting the right number of fingers down and getting the note - ta ta! In my experience, whistles are so cheaply made and unreliable that it is better to play a recorder when that St. Patrick's Day gig comes around. Unless, perhaps, you have one of those $150 "penny whistles." |
08 Mar 04 - 11:43 PM (#1131965) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: GUEST,guest Dave The Gnome: good explanation! 'Course, maybe Blackcatter is going to do it with his WHISTLE! Jimmyt: What did your mother tell you do with ANYTHING before you put it in your mouth? Stu: The blutack thing's a new one on me and undoubtedly needs to be explained by someone who understands Boyle's Law, Charles' Law, Avagadro's Principle and Bernoulli's Principle. I can't imagine whistle manufacturers going that deeply into the science. I've read these theories then still watch in amazement as Jumbo Jets impossibly take to the sky. And it's always a surprise to me when a gas pump shuts itself off when my tank is full! |
08 Mar 04 - 11:57 PM (#1131970) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Blackcatter changed the three-finger note by a half step just by moving the tip of my tongue parallel to the roof of my mouth Leenia - I tried that on several of my whistles and did not notice any difference. And I'm used to doing that since I play nose flute as well. It's all interesting. |
09 Mar 04 - 01:58 AM (#1132027) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: GUEST,guest I appologise if this is considered "thread slip" but many years ago, my Scots fiddle-player uncle showed us kids how to make a whistle (not a "Penny Whistle") out of a tin can lid. These days I make them from flat bits of aluminum siding. Now, Honest-to-God! the following is true - it is not even near April 1 yet! but here is how to make one of these whistles. What I want to know is: There are a lot of experienced whistle players here - has any other player ever seen or played one of these? The technique is to make a circular piece of thin metal 3" to 4" in diameter (snips work OK) then place some kind of spacer (thin plywood) about 1/8" thich across the diameter of the circle and bend the piece in two. The spacer bit stops the two sides becoming flat against one another at the bend. You now have a semi-circle (top plan) and an elongated "C" (side plan). insert a thin 1/8" piece of plywood between the two layers (to keep them apart) and (in the center of the straight part of the semi-circle about 1/4" from the bend edge) drill a 1/4" hole through both layers of metal and the plywood. Remove the burr from both layers (you have to open it up a bit to get the inside burr). Drill the hole the bottom (on that layer only) out to 3/16". Take a file and remove all the sharp edges and burrs and then wash the piece (Very Important (Jimmyt - listen to your mother) - you are going to put this in your mouth). Now you have a semicircle with a hole on top slightly smaller than the one on the bottom. The holes should line up. Playing this, like Leeniea says, is by varying the size of the chamber in your mouth (similar to playing the Lone Ranger by tapping a pencil on your cheek). Holding the ends of the whistle between thumb and middle finger with the edge with the hole closest to you and the smaller hole up, put the whistle in your mouth (clamp down with your lips to make a good seal) and put the tip of your tongue at the edge of the top (small) hole, leaving some room for air to pass through and blow using a kind of "THSSP" shape of your tongue. The next bit is problematic, I've had people get a note right away and people who never got a note. The important thing is to persevere until you can get a sustainable note. Move the tip of your tongue forward and back across the top hole. Sometimes adjusting the space between the two plates helps, either opening it up or closing it a bit until you get that first note. Once you get the first note, you can vary it by pressing the whistle further into your mouth and puffing up your cheeks. It doesn't have a big range but the sound has a kind of a flutey-sweet-potato pleasing timbre to it. |
09 Mar 04 - 10:40 AM (#1132059) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Peter T. I have a slightly pricy wood whistle (given to me as a present), which always "splits" the sound when it goes up into the higher register. Is this normal? Someone suggested that I could get it rebored from the manufacturer if I sent it back -- is this feasible? yours, Peter T. |
09 Mar 04 - 01:11 PM (#1132203) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: GUEST,Wyllow I've tuned all my pennywhistles (Generation) in the following manner: First, heat up some water in a ceramic mug in the microwave, like you were making tea. It should be really hot but NOT boiling. Then, submerge the entire plastic mouthpiece of the whistle in the mug. Let it sit for a minute. Then try pulling the mouthpiece off. If it doesn't come off, heat up the water for a few more seconds in the microwave. Just make sure it isn't starting to boil. Soak mouthpiece some more. When the mouthpiece comes off, wipe off as much of the glue residue as you can. Then coat the metal end with petroleum jelly. This makes the mouthpiece easier to slide around. Put the mouthpiece on and tune it up. The petroleum jelly seals it up pretty well when you've found the optimum spot for the mouthpiece. As other posters have noted, not all inexpensive whistles are in tune with themselves. Some always have a note or two that are slightly "out". I've never melted a plastic mouthpiece using this method. Good luck! Wyllow :) |
09 Mar 04 - 01:45 PM (#1132241) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Leadfingers Regarding the comment about someone doing a workshop playing a $150 whistle, I have done a few workshops at Festivals in UK, and though I have a set of Chieftens as well as a set of Shaws and a set of Tony Dixons I use a Generation for the workshops. I also carry a few Generation D whistles for sale for any one who turns up either with a Duff whistle or No Whistle at all. I have a mate who runs a mail order accessory business who lets me have em at cost so I can sell em cheaper than the Music Stalls at the Festival ( I dont see why people who WANT to learn need to be ripped off) Some Generations work well -its just a case of selscting ones that work and rejecting the rest. |
09 Mar 04 - 01:57 PM (#1132251) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: GUEST,Richard H Jeeneia, I've tried lipping down the Walton without any success. The notes are so sharp that the electronic tuner often can't decide if a note is say, a sharp A or a flat Bb. I suspect a big, burly guy at Walton's got ditched by his girl and came to work peeved next day, rammed on the mouthpiece and soaked it in superglue. Unfortunately it has a full, rich low D and E to die for. I have used the recorder before but am not sure it's appropriate in an Irish pub. According to Noirchatticus Grammaticus: "Ye 6-hole whistle imitates fervently the male body - two ear-holes, two nose, one mouth and one other. Ye recorder carries an extra hole in deference to the female of the species." I don't know. Is a St.Patrick's Day pub any place for a genteel recorder? |
09 Mar 04 - 02:59 PM (#1132327) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Folkiedave Can I also recommend Howard Whistles. Brian Howard is great bloke and makes low whistles, bodhrans and uillean pipes. His website is at http://www.howardmusic.co.uk/Frameset%20howardmusic.htm but is not working very well. Regards, Dave www.collectorsfolk.co.uk |
09 Mar 04 - 03:31 PM (#1132357) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: GUEST,Wyllow unfortunately, there are no stores in my area that carry the type of pennywhistle I like (Generation in nickel silver with the blue plastic mouthpiece). There is a store that has the brass ones but not the nickel ones. Therefore I have ordered all mine from Elderly Instruments in Michigan, which means that I just have to take a chance that I will get a good one; I can't try them out beforehand. Luckily, most of the ones they've sent me are pretty good; if they sent me a real clinker I would just have to return it and try another one. Slightly off topic question... I recently acquired a wooden Hohner recorder on Ebay...the intonation is not good. Do all wooden recorders need to be "blown" in tune, or did I just get a dud? I'm a beginner on recorder. thanks, Wyllow :) |
09 Mar 04 - 06:24 PM (#1132509) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Blackcatter Richard - not to be picky but how in the hell do you pee? |
09 Mar 04 - 06:56 PM (#1132533) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: GUEST,sorefingers Gee this is a hot topic ! |
09 Mar 04 - 08:54 PM (#1132640) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: GUEST,leeneia Wyllow: are you blowing into the Hohner recorder as if it were a pea shooter? That's what you want to do. You want a concentrated jet of air going through. I have a Hohner that someone picked up at a garage sale. It is husky, but plays in tune. I think of it as my harmonica-recorder. Has your recorder been oiled? Maybe it needs oil. You can get bore oil and a swab at a music store. Re: Is a St.Patrick's Day pub any place for a genteel recorder?" I'm sure that recorders were played in Ireland at the same time that they were being played in Europe to the east and America to the west. They are an affordable, accessible instrument. For three years now I have played soprano recorder at a St Patrick's Day fish fry. It and the bodhran are the only instruments that can be heard over the clatter of trays and loud conversations. |
10 Mar 04 - 12:36 AM (#1132766) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Bob Bolton G'day Wyllow / leeneia, Since the affordable ('pennywhistle'/tin whistle) only appeared in 1843 - although all sorts of home-made and traditional whistle lived all over the civilised world - whereas the recorder, after a few centuries dominance was fast disappearing about the same time (OK - it was revived by Dolmetsch in the early 20th century) I would have thought that the recorder would then have been the favoured, 'traditional' instrument - and the newfangled tin whistle would have been about as 'traditional' as an electric guitar in 1950. It's all a matter of perception ... and prejudice ... and what you can get away with! Regards, Bob Bolton |
10 Mar 04 - 12:49 AM (#1132770) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Blackcatter Was a recorder a "people's" instrument? Would it be something played around the hearth in the average Irish home? And of course speaking of "traditional" Irish instruments - what about the guitar? How long has that been part of Irish music - less than 100 years? I first picked up the whistle to play because all the idiots who know only 4 chords on their guitars thought little of me just because "all" I could contribute was being able to sing over 150 songs, play the spoons, bodhran, and jews harp. |
10 Mar 04 - 05:28 AM (#1132833) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Pied Piper Hi Richard. Good advice above. I now make my own Whistle bodies to go with Generation Heads. I use the Polystyrene tube readily available in UK Model shops. Evergreen 1/2 inch Tube No 236 This fits a Generation D or Eb top. I'm the guy that uses bluetac to fill in the space behind the fipple to sharpen the top octave relative to the bottom. TTFN PP |
10 Mar 04 - 07:41 AM (#1132903) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Bob Bolton G'day Blackcatter, The question is where you split "recorder" and "whistle". Some sort of wood / reed / cane / bone whistle has been made for thousands of years ... the Dolmetsch (1919)-revived recorder represents the most developed (contrived ... ?) form of that. Lots of simpler instruments were played by "ordinary" people ... but note that "recorder" meant (~) teaching / training (aid) ... and refered to the use of recorders to teach tunes to whistling birds! (Maybe not by the Irish hearthside - unless the family made a livong on the side selling whistling birds!) Pied Piper: The various schemes to fill the undercut of the platic moulded fiples are common ... lots mentioned in Chiff & Fipple site's "Tweaking Whistles" pages. Regards, Bob (turned of music for half a decade of early life but school year 5 recorder lessons!) |
10 Mar 04 - 09:59 AM (#1133003) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: GUEST,leeneia You're right about the "thousands of years", Bob. I once read a book called "Secrets of the Ice Age" that showed a simple whistle from a Neanderthal occupation layer in a cave. As for the name recorder meaning an instrument to teach birds, that's misleading. The recorder is called a blockflute in German and a flute a bec in French. It was widely played. As for Blackcatter's question, "Was a recorder a "people's" instrument? Would it be something played around the hearth in the average Irish home?" The answer is, probably not. But for music history purposes, we should be asking what musicians played, whether professional or amateur. We should also investigate whether the instruments were made better in the days of yore. Meanwhile, I have another question - do want to play the gig and bring joy to the listeners or not? And do you want to do it without having to worry that your instrument will let you down? Do you have limited practice time? If so, then you should probably not rely on the whistle. |
10 Mar 04 - 11:39 AM (#1133096) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Blackcatter "And do you want to do it without having to worry that your instrument will let you down? Do you have limited practice time? If so, then you should probably not rely on the whistle." I would disagree. The only thing that has let me down with a whistle on stage is my own mistakes. Neither I nor any of the people I play with have ever commented on my whistles being out of tune with the other instruments. |
10 Mar 04 - 04:07 PM (#1133288) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: GUEST,Wyllow Leeneia, thanks for the recorder advice. I'm probably blowing the recorder like, well, a pennywhistle! which of course doesn't take much breath at all to overblow into the next octave. I'll try the Hohner with more concentrated breath. yes, it probably needs oiling as well. couldn't hurt. I live in the desert where the average humidity hovers around 10 percent or so. it came with care instructions which I will check for more advice. I'm learning a few medieval tunes on it which are really fun (and appropriate!) But I still love my pennywhistles! Yea! Wyllow :) |
10 Mar 04 - 05:36 PM (#1133357) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Bob Bolton G'day aagin, leeneia: I wasn't making any absolute points about any of the forms of whistle - the mention of the background to the English name "recorder" was just an interesting sidelight on the past uses of the instrument. (I was once given a facsimile reproduction of an ancient manual for teaching tunes to songbirds ... by a much keener recorder-player!) One point I wanted to make was that there are endless variations of the whistle in folk history ... whatever the music textbooks say. Wyllow: I would reckon that any old wooden recorder should be given a good oiling before forming any idea of its performance. Good 'blockflute oil' ... or high quality almond oil ... liberally applies to inner surfaces, allowed to soak in, then mopped fairly dry. Standard care kits should be available at music shops (although a .45" calibre pistol cleaning mop works well!). Regards, Bob Bolton |
10 Mar 04 - 05:54 PM (#1133377) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: GUEST,sorefingers If you want the tubing in the US then any Hobbylobby would have it, they sell it in short sticks, some variety in diameter, about two foot long. But I would not bother since I can buy a plastic TW at Dollar General for a buck, very nice and soft sounding as well. Funny thing, the other night I heard a sessioneer here playing a highdollar US made TW which was not as nice. |
11 Mar 04 - 12:01 AM (#1133572) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Bob Bolton G'day sorefingers, Obviously you reap the benefit of a larger market pool ... I wandered unattended into a Canberra music store last week ... and came out with 2 tinwhistles and a cheap "Swannee-whistle" ... Aust$36 lighter in the money pocket. (OK - Half the money went to a fancy hammertone green paint-job "D" Clarke 'Meg' posing as their "Celtic" tin whistle - plus a Generation high "G" before they disappear from the shelves ... and a "Swannee-whistle" that Trophy may be proud of!) Regard(les)s, Bob Bolton |
11 Mar 04 - 08:42 PM (#1134332) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: GUEST,sorefingers The Gaelic for TW is Feadog. As I recall it was originally just an oat stalk whittled with a sharp knife and played until it broke. |
12 Mar 04 - 12:37 AM (#1134448) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Bob Bolton G'day again sorefingers, Strictly, if you want TW that's something like feadog stain (I'm no Irish/Gealic speaker) ... That "feadog" is cognate with most of the other Europeam words that give us "fife" in English - the "d" in feadog being more of a 'thorn' ... the old Germanic Runic / "th" consonant (mis)represented today by the "Y" in "Ye Olde ..." (Stain" (~ spelling?) is "tin" (cognate with Late Latin stannum). Whistles have been made from oat stalks, reeds, willow bark tubes, hollow bones ... or anything else that could be used as a cylinder that can be modified by a sinple knife blade. Regards, Bob Bolton |
12 Mar 04 - 07:24 AM (#1134646) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: GUEST,sorefingers The folks that used the word to 'me' wouldn't know one from the next, to them it is 'feadog'. Anyway the concerted effort in the post Cheiftains era to globalise Irish stuff to the extent that there is almost nothing left which the locals could claim without starting university deters most from commenting. I OTOH could not care less, what I know I say, and to hell with academia! |
12 Mar 04 - 10:34 AM (#1134715) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: breezy www. Kerrywhistles.com and ask Phil |
12 Mar 04 - 12:01 PM (#1134830) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Blackcatter Feadog is also a brand of whistles. |
12 Mar 04 - 10:22 PM (#1135296) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: GUEST,Richard H This thread continues to be a revelation. My old Rosetti wooden recorder which used to sing in the 60s had gone completely dumb and unplayable. But after an oiling as recommended (used lemon oil which happened to be handy - didn't really expect any change), she's found her voice again and is rivalling the plastic Yamahas and a one-piece German Hohner. Got a new Clarke C whistle today which should be okay after a little tweaking. Bit disappointed in the workmanship - one side of the wooden block fits flush with the metal while the other projects almost a sixteenth inch. Trouble is now I can't decide what to play. |
13 Mar 04 - 12:13 AM (#1135335) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Blackcatter Put the Clarke in the recorder |
13 Mar 04 - 12:17 AM (#1135336) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Blackcatter OK, here's a question I have a recorder - my mom's from the 50s. I play whistle and while I'm not exactly an expert, I'm never dissapointed with what I can make a whistle do. Why in the hell are their 2 extra holes on a recorder? Does it give you more range, or what? |
13 Mar 04 - 08:11 AM (#1135438) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: GUEST,Steve Blackcatter, the two extra holes in the recorder are there to make the instrument more readily fully chromatic rather than half-holeing all the time. I think the span of the recorder is the same as the whistle. |
13 Mar 04 - 06:03 PM (#1135774) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Bob Bolton G'day again, RichardH: I'm afraid Clarkes have shown bad fit since the family sold out. Fortunately, being tin-plate much of the fit can be adjusted with little more than sturdy thumb pressure (squeezing sides into better fit). A thin metal 'slip' (or just a thin penknife blade) can act as a former for flattening the excessive 'arch' of the top of the mouthpiece. A good friend was playing one of the new ones in Sydney ... said she liked it, but it had too much 'wind noise' ("chiff") ... and took so much air she was hyperventilating! I had a close look, applied thumb pressure on both sides and the top ... and she was astonished at the improvement. It's a pity the new makers can't get them right at the factory (although I have tended to 'nudge' a few surfaces to the optimum points for nearly 40 years!). Regards, Bob Bolton |
13 Mar 04 - 06:59 PM (#1135810) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Richard Bridge Recorder: Jacqui used to use raw, not boiled, linseed oil on her recorders or sometimes neatsfoot oil - rather to the horror of Brian Blood at Dolmetsch, but the slightly heavier oil did seem to give a slightly heavier sound. Whistle: in theory (I have not tried it) it should be possible to shrink the metal tube out of the plastic block by using plumber's freezing spray on the metal tube. I have a friend who blutacks and he says it improves tone but has not mentioned pitch to me. |
14 Mar 04 - 02:21 AM (#1135954) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Red and White Rabbit Just to go back a bit Brian Howard ( Howard whistles) also recomends you use blutak to tune your whistle and that you turn the mouthpiece upside down when playing outside and that if you are trying to get the head off insert the body of another whistle up the body of the whistle you want to play and gently push |
14 Mar 04 - 09:04 AM (#1136089) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Blackcatter The application of Plumber's freezing spray might not work on whistles that have not already been adjusted, since it's a glue that holds the mouthpiece on, not just compression. Once the glue has been removed, adjustments should be easily made. The biggest problem is that the "wiggle-room" is so slight that it may not make any difference. I simply do not bother. I typically do not notice a problem with my whistles being out of tune with the other instruments. I recently played several tunes with a tuba player and had no problem with being in tune. When it comes to guitars and other string instruments, in Florida the humidity and heat and A/C, etc. are always causing musicians to be rather flexible with their tuning issues. Some times, it's my whistle that someone will tune to, as they know that it never really varies. |
15 Mar 04 - 02:36 PM (#1137264) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: GUEST,guest Well, THAT's your most pompous post yet, Blackcatter. "I simply do not bother! ... don't notice ... being out of tune" You must have been unusually lucky in your whistle acquisition for each and every one to be perfectly in tune or (as I suspect to be the more likely) in common with your whistles you have a tin ear. |
16 Mar 04 - 08:56 AM (#1138001) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: The Fooles Troupe The point about hot water, cold sprays, etc, is to remember the basic physics. The metal tube will expand and contract more than the plastic mouthpiece, which is OUTSIDE it. So with the hot water, the trick is to get more of it on the plastic - which conducts heat slowly, and if using cold, to get more of it on the metal, which conducts heat rapidly. If you put too much heat on the metal, you may crack the plastic mouthpiece. If you warm the mouthpiece end up, then rub an ice cube on the metal near the plastic, you get the best of both. The idea is to crack the seal between the glue and the metal - the glue will let go of the metal if enough stress is put on it. If you look up very old 'recorders' in museums, you find that the older ones look almost identical to 'whistles' - the number of holes is idential - they are both 'flute-a-bec' - as distinct from 'flauto-traverso' which grew into the moderm flute when Mr Boehm had finished with it. Why do schoolkids playing those cheap plastic recorders always sound shrill? They are overblowing, which raises the pitch. Robin |
16 Mar 04 - 02:03 PM (#1138369) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: InOBU I will give a demo of tuning a tin whistle at....SORCHA DORCHA will be at the HALF KING restaurant and pub, this Wends. Saint Patrick's Day on 23rd street between 10th and 11th Ave. from 7 pm to 10 ... As expected Lorcan Otway on vocals uilleann pipes flute whistle bodhran and the great Jane Kelton on flute whistle and key board, Seanin An Fear on Mandolin, Joe Charupakorn on guitar... the joint is already rumbling, so stay from Give us a drink of water to An Phis Fluich, all yer ol' favs... Cheers, Is mise, le meas, Lorcan Otway |
16 Mar 04 - 03:30 PM (#1138458) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Blackcatter Hey Foolestroupe, You're basically right, but the process of using hot water is meant to melt the glue - the glue is basically that kind of "hot melt glue" that craftpeople use in the little glue guns. Reheating it melts it and makes it easy to remove. Usually the potential problem is that the water is too hot and may melt parts of the plastic mouthpiece (such as the thin edge that actually makes the sound). This may ruin the sound of the whistle. It's also possible to return wistles that are considered out of tune. I have done this with Generations, which have a reputation for being hit or miss in quality. But I play Generations for two reasons - the good ones are wonderful, and they are about the only inexpensive brand to make a whole bunch of different keys. You can get a set of 6 different keys for around $25. I had to return 2, but got back good ones the first time. |
17 Mar 04 - 07:31 AM (#1139024) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: The Fooles Troupe Blackcatter you may be right. The few times I have done it, I merely ran some warmish water (not boiling) from the hot water tap thru the mouthpiece fipple hole. Then I took some ice on the barrel, and using a tea towel, twisted. The parts disassociated. I found it useful to wrap a small amount of that white plumbers teflon thread sealing tape around the barrel - it stops things from sliding around too much. Robin |
17 Mar 04 - 08:49 AM (#1139060) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Vixen Whoa! What's that about turning the mouthpiece upside down when playing outdoors???? Please tell me more! It seems like a logical idea, placing the blade and window in a more sheltered location by your chin, but doesn't it change the embouchure, tonguing, and breath flow? And it must "feel" strange... Reynaud and I play outdoors (weddings, ren fairs, etc.) and I have all but given up on the pw and recorder when it's breezy, because sometimes I get note when I blow, and sometimes it's the the right one (though usually not) but mostly I get sudden silences and odd shrill and swooping notes. (I don't think it's my playing, because I don't have these problems indoors, or when the air is calm!) I'm at work now, without a whistle to try it out on, and now I can't wait to get home and see if this really works... V |
17 Mar 04 - 10:12 AM (#1139110) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Blackcatter I've never tried that as well Vixen. Sounds interesting though. |
17 Mar 04 - 11:10 AM (#1139154) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Pied Piper More completely turn the Fipple away from the wind direction. TTFN PP |
17 Mar 04 - 07:16 PM (#1139526) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: The Fooles Troupe Actually, I can play a whistle upside down - no - not from the bottom you fools - although THAT's a thought.... no, and not from MY bottom... You hold the whistle in one hand, then roll it around so that the holes face your chest with your fingers still covering the holes, then apply the other hand so it wraps around to where the fingers go... your wrist have to tuck under... and your elbows stick out in front like a crazy chicken... I didn't say it was easy.. Robin |
18 Mar 04 - 02:11 AM (#1139739) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Blackcatter Yea Gods Robin - the reason I play whistle is that it's a simple instrument! Next you're going to say that you've experimented with drilling a couple extra holes - one on the opposite side, just above the top hole, and one just below the bottom hole and a little to the left (if you're looking at the whistle). |
18 Mar 04 - 08:46 AM (#1139928) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: The Fooles Troupe Actually, Blackcatter, I have seen some Brisbane Irish Players drill a hole on the back, between the top two holes, for the thumb to get that flattened 7th... :-) Btw, I have a Generation (same length as a normal D) Tabor Pipe with the traditional two finger holes in the front and one behind for the thumb, but I find this intensely difficult to play, probably due to my minor MMD - I find that I if I just tape over the top 3 holes of a normal whistle I can easily get a Tabor Pipe that way - it's just overblows! Incidentally, I find that with some whistles, it's just as easy to play the whole second and third octaves "Tabor Pipe" fashion - keep the top 3 fingers in place and just do the overblows. I also have the Overton "Overtone" which is a Low G length whistle with no fingerholes - played by cupping the palm of one hand around the bottom end and waggling it about - reminds me of a Theremin!!! I think this is harder to play than the "backwards whistle" mentioned above... :-) Robin |
18 Mar 04 - 10:10 AM (#1139990) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: GUEST,Richard H Just to bring this full circle: I never got the mpc off the Walton. Someone gave me another Walton which is in good pitch. I now have "whistles coming out the wazoo" according to one daughter. I played recorder most of the night. The Hohner was in fine fettle. Made an ass of myself as usual on the hornpipes which always get too fast for my fingers. Fields of Athenry was the most requested song but the Walton's medley of Galway Piper/Tell me ma/Mairi's wedding received favourable yowling. It bad enough trying to find time to breathe in a hornpipe; when a young lady is puffing clouds of smoke right next to you, it's murder. 1st and 2nd place in the limerick contest went to Brits. A guy from Ottawa was third with: "There was an old hermit named Dave, who kept a dead whore in his cave. He said,'I admit, I'm a bit of a twit, but think of the money I save.'" |
18 Mar 04 - 03:27 PM (#1140254) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Pied Piper Absolutely Foolestroupe; I find 3 holes on the top MUCH easyer to play than the trad arrangement. TTFN PP |
18 Mar 04 - 07:42 PM (#1140462) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: The Fooles Troupe Pied Piper so there must be a market for these then? :-) Robin |
18 Mar 04 - 11:18 PM (#1140567) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Bob Bolton G'day Foolesptroupe, " ... I also have the Overton "Overtone" which is a Low G length whistle with no fingerholes - played by cupping the palm of one hand around the bottom end and waggling it about - reminds me of a Theremin!!! I think this is harder to play than the "backwards whistle" mentioned above... :-) " Hmmm ... That's something I noticed when I made my first low "G" whistle in 1965. Before I had drilled any finger holes, I was just tuning its length against a Hohner low "G" I had bought in Melbourne (not a good idea, as I later discovered: the Hohners were all tuned about "Old High Pitch" / "Kneller Hall Pitch" ... A = 454 Hz!) and I discovered the whistle would play a full harmonic series ... unfortunately, I never tried modifying the output with my cupped palm! (But I might try it, with masking tape over all the finger holes of one of my low "G"s ... sometime.) Regards, Bob Bolton |
09 Jan 05 - 04:46 PM (#1375313) Subject: Tuning an Irish whistle From: GUEST Is it possible to have a penny whistle in tune with itself? I have several, and there are some nasty wolf tones on them all. |
09 Jan 05 - 10:29 PM (#1375614) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: Leadfingers The problem with 'Cheap' whistles (and a few pricey ones) is the cost of decent Quality Control . This results in a lot of totally unplayable whistles on the market ! And IF you have a whisle with a movable mouthpiece and you HAVE to play outdoors in a wind , just move the mouthpiece through 180 degrees to minimise wind effect ! |
09 Jan 05 - 11:53 PM (#1375664) Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle From: The Fooles Troupe ... or just turn the whole whistle 180 degrees around and then wrap your hands around it... certainly makes people stop and look! Takes a little practice though... :-) |