|
10 Mar 04 - 10:59 AM (#1133066) Subject: BS: Kerry's Stand on Patriot Act? From: GUEST Perhaps all you progressive Kerry supporters could explain something to me. I keep going here: John Kerry for President "On the Issues" page And looking for the words "Civil Rights" or "Civil Liberties" or "Patriot Act" but lo and behold, there is nothing to be found there! Now then, considering that ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE on the progressive left keeps saying we have to vote for Kerry to get rid of the Patriot Act, restore our civil rights and liberties, etc etc I find this just so surprising! If John Kerry is going to repeal the Patriot Act and restore our civil liberties as president, why won't he say so, hmmmm? |
|
10 Mar 04 - 11:13 AM (#1133080) Subject: RE: BS: Kerry's Stand on Patriot Act? From: McGrath of Harlow Sure he'll let you down, they always do. But you have to live with that. Billy Bragg once said, talking about the general election, words to the effect "There may be only an inch ir so of difference between Labour and the Tories, but that's the inch we live on." And Bush and his handlers make our Tories look like your "liberals". Elections aren't generally so much about making things better, they are about stopping them getting worse. It's in between the elections that the work has to go on trying to make things better. |
|
10 Mar 04 - 11:52 AM (#1133110) Subject: RE: BS: Kerry's Stand on Patriot Act? From: Amos From Kerry's Action Plan, not explicitly but sort of implied in the following: "(3) End the 'Era of Ashcroft' John Ashcroft has launched an all-out assault on individual rights, allowing for a wholesale invasion of attorney-client conversations, e-mails and telephone calls. Immediately after the election, John Kerry will name a new Attorney General whose name is not John Ashcroft. We will also fight to protect women's rights, civil rights and workers rights and enforce anti-trust laws. " A |
|
10 Mar 04 - 12:52 PM (#1133147) Subject: RE: BS: Kerry's Stand on Patriot Act? From: Don Firth You're really reaching, GUEST. I think we should consolidate all the threads started by GUEST under a heading of "BS: I'd rather have Attila the Hun than John Kerry." Don Firth |
|
10 Mar 04 - 02:54 PM (#1133246) Subject: RE: BS: Kerry's Stand on Patriot Act? From: Rapparee Attila the Hun instead of John Kerry? Hmmm.... |
|
10 Mar 04 - 03:05 PM (#1133255) Subject: RE: BS: Kerry's Stand on Patriot Act? From: GUEST Well that is interesting, Amos, that John Kerry will appoint a different attorney general. Except every president appoints a different attorney general, so I don't exactly see how voting for Kerry is going to reverse the damage done to our civil liberties, if he won't talk about how he is going to do that. Considering how he voted for the Patriot Act, and all. As to "really reaching" Don, I don't think so. The mainstream Democrats and the "Anybody But Bush" movement keep saying we have to vote for Kerry because he will set everything right that Bush has fouled up. I don't see any proof of that at the John Kerry for President website. So why do mainstream Democrats and the "Anybody But Bush" movement think that a vote for Kerry will matter one iota? If Kerry isn't going to undo the damage, what difference does it make which Republicrat gets in next January? Is Kerry going to raise taxes to undo the damage of massive tax cuts by Bush and massive tax rebates from Clinton, that resulted in the Treasury running so low we can't pay for a damn thing anymore? No? Is Kerry going to pull US troops out of Afghanistan, Iraq, Haiti, and work to replace them with international forces? Is Kerry going to support the formation of a true Palestinian state? And just how the hell is Kerry going to stop the job losses here and the exploitation of workers overseas by US multinationals, when he keeps voting for things like NAFTA? What exactly is the Kerry economic program for getting the nation back to work? Are we talking New Deal sorts of government programs? I don't see answers to those questions at John Kerry for President website, but I do see a lot of pontificating about Kerry "fighting his heart out to bring the 3 million lost jobs back to America." Yeah, how Mr Kerry? |
|
10 Mar 04 - 07:37 PM (#1133434) Subject: RE: BS: Kerry's Stand on Patriot Act? From: michaelr See this. |
|
10 Mar 04 - 09:53 PM (#1133510) Subject: RE: BS: Kerry's Stand on Patriot Act? From: artbrooks I believe that the site that GUEST 10:59 AM pointed to includes Mr. Kerry's position on the Patriot act, here. |
|
10 Mar 04 - 10:11 PM (#1133527) Subject: RE: BS: Kerry's Stand on Patriot Act? From: Bobert Hey, I can't get a bead on this Kerry feller. He has a lot of Bush in him. He'll say whatever he needs to given the situation. I hope he settles down 'cause if he don't come clean on some stuff like real soon then those progressives that were gonna give him the benefit of the doubt are gonna just write him off... Next. Bobert |
|
10 Mar 04 - 10:22 PM (#1133533) Subject: RE: BS: Kerry's Stand on Patriot Act? From: Donuel He will not open himself up to attack by the military industrial complex and multinational attack if he is smart. Will he ever display the passion of Bobby Kennedy? no Will he make the proud ideals of the new deal central to liberalism? no Will he win? not with Diebold counting the votes. |
|
10 Mar 04 - 10:52 PM (#1133547) Subject: RE: BS: Kerry's Stand on Patriot Act? From: GUEST Artbrooks, I read the section specifically relating to the Patriot Act too. Nowhere does Kerry say he will overturn it. He just talks about all the great things he thinks are in it, and then goes on to say that John Ashcroft is guilty of going overboard. Doesn't give me much confidence that he will do what those supposedly progressive Democrats who will vote for Kerry, claim we are going to get from him being elected. |
|
10 Mar 04 - 11:16 PM (#1133559) Subject: RE: BS: Kerry's Stand on Patriot Act? From: LadyJean Has your state had their primary yet? If they haven't and Dean's on the ballot, vote for him. Remind John Kerry that Americans don't like the Patriot Act. He's a politician. If he thought dying his hair green would appeal to the voters he'd dye his hair green. I'd prefer a man of principal, of course, presuming his principals were mine. But Kerry will do. |
|
11 Mar 04 - 01:26 AM (#1133606) Subject: RE: BS: Kerry's Stand on Patriot Act? From: michaelr Bobert and everyone -- check out my link above. Kerry may be somewhat better than Bush, and we must vote for him for lack of a better choice, but... don't expect radical change. He's one of them and always has been. Cheers, Michael |
|
11 Mar 04 - 04:19 AM (#1133662) Subject: RE: BS: Kerry's Stand on Patriot Act? From: GUEST,Cookieless W.E. Here's an Idea Guest! PISS OFF and don't come back until you have a magor Increase in you IG ans EQ levels! |
|
11 Mar 04 - 10:01 AM (#1133854) Subject: RE: BS: Kerry's Stand on Patriot Act? From: Frankham Kerry has stated that he doesn't like all of the Patriot Act but he signed on to it because he felt that some provisions were good for the country. I don't agree with him on that but I see where he was coming from. He actually believed the "intelligence" that he was getting. I don't think he'll vote for Patriot II. As to him being like Bush, you gotta' be kidding! Kerry is not part of a radical right-wing agenda and if you don't believe that there is one, then you may as well not vote, which would be a vote for Bush or go ahead and just vote for Bush. I am not going to respond to anyone who signs his name as just Guest anymore. They are not willing to reveal who they are and as far as I'm concerned, they are not as a result to be trusted. You might as well be talking to Ghost. (Not a real person there). Also, there is a concerted effort in this mudslinging election time of spreading disinformation on Mudcat by operatives using the anonymous Guest as a smoke screen. I challenge each anonymous Guest to reveal who they really are and caution those who respond to them to take what they have to say with a grain of salt. They are possibly not who they say they are. With other Mudcatters, who I have shared ideas with, they are consistent and come across as real people with whom I can have a dialogue and am grateful for being able to do so. Frank |
|
11 Mar 04 - 02:00 PM (#1134039) Subject: RE: BS: Kerry's Stand on Patriot Act? From: GUEST "...then you may as well not vote, which would be a vote for Bush or go ahead and just vote for Bush." This claim, that is you don't vote for Kerry you are voting for Bush, keeps getting more and more ridicuous every time I see it suggested here. Now, it isn't just Nader supporters being accused of voting for Bush. Now, if you are one of the approximately 50% of eligible voters who don't vote, you are going to be demonized by Kerry's supporters for voting for Bush. If you want Kerry to win so badly, maybe y'all should back off, and stop alienating people by being so arrogant and condescending. My guess is you aren't going to win many converts to your cause this way. |
|
11 Mar 04 - 02:21 PM (#1134050) Subject: RE: BS: Kerry's Stand on Patriot Act? From: Don Firth GUEST, your a fine one to talk about others "alienating people by being so arrogant and condescending." Considering the number of threads you've started with the sole purpose of trashing Kerry, and how arrogant and condescending you are toward anyone who doesn't agree with you, doesnt't it ever occur to you how many people you're alienating from your own cause? Don Firth |
|
11 Mar 04 - 02:25 PM (#1134055) Subject: RE: BS: Kerry's Stand on Patriot Act? From: GUEST Why Don, you do sound like a good Kerry man, there. |
|
11 Mar 04 - 03:06 PM (#1134082) Subject: RE: BS: Kerry's Stand on Patriot Act? From: GUEST,Clint Keller Why GUEST, you do sound like a good Cheney man, there. Follow artbrooks blicky above. It doesn't say 'Patriot Act' literally, but it addresses the abuses in the act. clint |
|
12 Mar 04 - 01:38 AM (#1134476) Subject: RE: BS: Kerry's Stand on Patriot Act? From: Nerd The real issue is that overturning the patriot act is a red herring, for two reasons. One, a president cannot overturn a law that has already been enacted. He can veto a law that Congress passes while he is president, but not one that existed when he was elected. So he simply cannot "repeal" the Patriot Act. To promise to do so would be absurd. Second, most of the Patriot Act will expire at the end of 2005. That was built into the law. So to promise "I will repeal the Patriot Act" would really be a promise to convince a Republican-dominated Congress to repeal it within one year of being elected. He would be setting himself to fail to make such a promise. |
|
12 Mar 04 - 03:08 PM (#1135027) Subject: RE: BS: Kerry's Stand on Patriot Act? From: Irish sergeant Nerd:Don't bet on the Patriot act disappearing in 2005 unless there is a strong push behind it. If Mr. Bush gets re-elected I expect to see the provisions that are supposed to expire in 2005 stay and Patriot 2 to be pushed through. We'll have to wait and see with that one. Meanwhile I urge you if you are for the repeal of the patriot act to let your congressmen and senators know that. I believe we can all disagree without getting personal about it. We're adults here or we're supposed to be anyway. Kindesr regards to all, Neil |