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14 Mar 04 - 07:27 AM (#1136059) Subject: Chris Couveau - Reading Gaol From: rich-joy 1. WHO is Chris Couveau??? 2. "I Saw Her As She Came and Went" (Bayard Rustin) query. This thread has been cobbled together with posts from the 1960s Australian Folk Albums thread because of my query to do with Oscar Wilde's "Ballad of Reading Gaol" and my quest to establish just WHO set it to music : No. 1 post is after hearing this song sung on the new CD of EXTRADITION's old recording "Hush" : " ... The surprise for us was hearing Colin (Dryden)'s recording of "The Ballad of Reading Gaol", that he set to Oscar Wilde's famous poem. I've only ever heard Paul Lawler (ex Sydney/Darwin) sing that song - beautifully and heart-rendingly - and I think he learnt it from Gerry Hallom years and years ago, who also taught him a lovely guitar riff, that Colin Dryden doesn't do on THAT recording ... But I'd never heard anyone but Paul sing that song - s'pose it'll take on a new lease of life now!!! ..." No. 2 post : "... I've just come across a copy of "The Coffee House Songbook" OAK Pubs, NY, 1966 - in an opshop - which covers "... the tradition of folksong which we have found to be most favoured by semi-professional and often wandering Folk Singers of North America between 1959 and 1965 ..." and Surprise! Surprise! it includes "The Ballad of Reading Gaol"!!! Set to the music of "I Saw Her As She Came and Went" by Chris Couveau from Williamsport, PA - DOES ANYBODY KNOW THIS SONG, or this artist????? Now many of the chords written on this copy are the same as those which Paul learnt for this song - but not being a musician, I cannot say if it's the same tune!! However, The EXTRADITION CD only credits "Oscar Wilde, arr Colin Dryden/Colin Campbell" ... Anybody know any more details? (or should I start another thread perhaps?!)..." No. 3 post : "... Well, I just went Googling and came up with a TINY fragment of the song that sounded VERY familiar!! It is on a Bok/Muir/Trickett recording "So Will We Yet"(?), but was written by gay civil rights activist (a singer and quaker,too) BAYARD RUSTIN (1912-1987) So WHO set Oscar to this piece??? Was it the mysterious Chris Couveau in PA? Or, was it the deceased Colin Dryden, Down Under (no, NOT from the grave!! In OZ, I mean!!) No, maybe not, he would've been too young perhaps ... Anyone any clues please? ..." SORRY for the confusing nature of this thread (I'm a tad tired)!! (It would help if I could do fancy formatting in HTML, I s'pose ...) Cheers! R-J |
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15 Mar 04 - 10:18 PM (#1137618) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: Jim Dixon Jeff Wilkinson (born in Detroit, lives in New York) sings BALLAD OF READING GAOL on his album "Just Luck" Gadfly CD 215, 1996. It's credited to "Wilde/Wilkinson" so I suppose Wilkinson made up the tune he sings. You can hear 30 seconds of it at Barnes & Noble. I don't know if anyone else uses the same tune. |
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16 Mar 04 - 05:03 AM (#1137807) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: rich-joy Thanks for that link, Jim - and yes, it IS quite a different tune he uses. Cheers! R-J |
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17 Mar 04 - 04:55 AM (#1138963) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: rich-joy I have just had a friend play the tune "I Saw Her As She Came and Went" from the "Coffee House Songbook" (see post No. 1 above, part 2) and while it is not EXACTLY the same (as Colin Dryden's/Paul Lawler's tune), there are enough similarities for me to conclude that Colin Dryden had DEFINITELY heard this version, somewhere, all those years ago ... Any more clues? Who (and where) is Chris Couveau? Cheers! R-J |
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22 Mar 04 - 05:14 AM (#1142727) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: rich-joy refresh |
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30 Mar 04 - 04:33 AM (#1149735) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: rich-joy have just started a thread requesting lyrics of : "I Saw Her As She Came and Went" by Bayard Rustin ... Cheers! R-J |
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18 Apr 04 - 04:39 AM (#1164216) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: rich-joy refresh |
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11 Aug 04 - 05:32 AM (#1244581) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: rich-joy ... still chasing info on Chris Couveau, and, WHO set "The Ballad of Reading Gaol" to the Rustin tune ... Cheers! R-J PS I THINK it was Stewie, who supplied the lyrics of "I Saw Her As She Came and Went" in the other thread I started ... Lyr Req: I Saw Her As She Came And Went (B Rustin) MAYBE some Link Pixie could do a blickey for me in both threads???!!! Done. --JoeClone, 12-Aug-04. |
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13 Aug 04 - 05:49 AM (#1246623) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: rich-joy THANKS! Ma-aa-ate!! Cheers! R-J |
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17 Mar 05 - 05:15 AM (#1436730) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: rich-joy Thanks to Stewie, I have just heard a recording of Bok, Muir & Trickett singing "I Saw Her As She Came and Went" - it is DEFINITELY the same tune that Colin Dryden used (and Paul Lawler uses) for "The Ballad of Reading Gaol" . So it looks like the marrying of the two songs was an American thing, not Australian : back to mystery of Chris Couveau. Margret Roadknight - are you there?! I wonder if Shayna Karlin can shed any light - are you still in touch with her??? Cheers! R-J |
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18 Mar 05 - 04:53 AM (#1437503) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: rich-joy just received an email from Gerry Hallom (on his way to Portugal), regarding this song that he taught to Paul Lawler all those years ago. It reads in part : I've tried posting messages on this mudcat cafe site, perhaps Richenda you could post-on my message to you. I don't know a great deal about the music of this piece other than Colin's version, which I have on tape, (it) is one of the most eerie, dark disturbing things you're likely to hear. If Beethoven sang he might sound a bit like Colin (Dryden)on this but perhaps not as deep. I got my version from the University out at Ryde in Sydney, illegally! I've heard rumours that it is now possible to get a cd of Extradition and that this is on the disc. True? I hope so, I could do with a more durable product. Let me know if there is some foolproof way I can log onto this web site, Best regards, Gerry. Gerr ~ EXTRADITION's rare "Hush" recording has been re-issued in 2003 on CD by "Vicious Sloth Collectables" in Victoria, Oz - VSC016 - they have a website too, at www.vicioussloth.com.au Cheers! R-J PS I will email you this whole thread, maybe that'll work ... |
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03 Aug 18 - 09:24 AM (#3941245) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: rich-joy Apologies for another old thread revival, but I have just uploaded to YouTube, the only recorded version of the song, as sung by my late Beloved, that I can find. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GH8-spu7Tw&t=1s Even after all these years, I still haven't found many answers to all my questions of provenance, but here is the update as written up at the YT clip : " LYRICS : Irish poet-playwright, Oscar Wilde (1854–1900) / MUSIC : thereby hangs a tale - read on... What a sad and a beautiful song - and from such a sad poem, written following Oscar’s 2 years in prison with hard labour from being convicted of “gross indecency”, and drawing attention to the brutalisation of prisoners and conditions endured. He served time in 3 other prisons prior to Reading Gaol : Newgate - Pentonville - Wandsworth, but there is no reason to suppose conditions were humane in any of them. There are many readings of the poem available (even at 109 stanzas), but precious few songs and the origins of this particular version are something of a mystery. The tune is based upon the composition by activist, Bayard Rustin (1912 – 1987): “I Saw Her As She Came and Went” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ypv9...), said to have been written in the 1940s when Bayard was incarcerated under “Jim Crow” laws in America, and before he became an unsung hero of the civil rights movement. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzeAf...). His melody was apparently inspired by an old practice exercise for the Lute, used here in this 1956 clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGg-w.... One “Chris Couveau” was known to have sung this combination of Wilde’s poem and Rustin’s tune, in the Williamsport, PA area of the USA, c.1965, which was published in an OAK songbook – but whether he (or she?) was responsible for the initial joining and arrangement, is at present unknown.** Folk music legend, Colin Dryden (1943 – 1987) from Yorkshire – a glorious singer and musician - who emigrated to Australia as a young man in 1965, joined forces with East End musician Colin Campbell who had emigrated in 1966, and this song was recorded in a 1970 concert within the super group EXTRADITION, in the altered form that is very similar to the way PAUL LAWLER sings it here. Paul, from Liverpool, also emigrated to Australia - still a youth - in 1964 and it is believed that he learnt this song from his English folkie mate, Gerry Hallom, who was also a mate of Colin Dryden’s. :) The two Colins were very innovative musicians and it is presumed** that they evolved this song to its new form. Colin Campbell, in particular, was an esteemed member of the renowned Australian experimental groups, TULLY and TAMAN SHUD (worth investigating if you’ve not heard of them!) Thankfully, Extradition’s version of “The Ballad of Reading Gaol” - sung by Colin Dryden, can still be heard on the hard-to-get Vicious Sloth CD reissue of “HUSH” (the vinyl is worth big bucks if you can find it!) ….. and also on Soundcloud. It is missing from the YT upload of “Hush”. Sadly, this version of PAUL LAWLER’s “Reading Gaol” is the ONLY recording of his version, found to date – no ubiquitous iPhones et al in the 70s-80s – but despite the loss here of his usual guitar introduction, it is still a poignant and beautiful rendition and is an all-time “Lawls favourite”!! VALE, PAUL LAWLER (1946 – 2014) **If anyone has further information about the provenance of this song, such advice would be much appreciated (e.g. is Shayna Karlin still around, does anyone know?) " Cheers, R-J Down Under |
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26 Jun 20 - 04:36 AM (#4061442) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: GUEST,Colan Campbell Hello there- I can't add anything to this discussion other than to relate that ' The Ballad of Reading Gaol ' as sung by Col Dryden at the final town hall concert of the Port Jackson Folk Festival- the recording of which appears tacked on to the Vicious Sloth ' Hush ' compilation- was already in Col's repertoire when we teamed up . I added the second guitar and Shayna Karlin ( Stewart ) added the harmonium keyboard ( a story in itself ). Col never claimed to have written the melody and we didn't discuss it. I was interested in how the very lengthy poem had been reduced to those few, powerful, verses and I assumed that Col had selected them himself and added his own melody. I see now , via search engines, that there's mention of the poem being reduced to a song version by Dominic Behan- but I can't discover if that reduction matches Col's. Extradition concentrated solely upon in-band original material after the Port Jackson concert, although Col Dryden returned to a mixed repertoire after we parted ways. For the record- I didn't play with Taman Shud. That was the late, great, Richard Lockwood, post-Tully. |
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26 Jun 20 - 09:29 AM (#4061490) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: Mrrzy The problem with Reading Gaol is that, being American, I read it as gah-ole... Sorry. Leaving now. |
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26 Jun 20 - 12:07 PM (#4061533) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: Sandra in Sydney thanks, Colan, I have loved Hush Exradition since I bought a used copy of the LP for $2 from Lawsons way back in the 70s & I kept it even after I no longer had a record player! I bought the CD when it came out in 2005 & especially love Ice & Reading Gaol. Extradition-Hush on youtube - copied from the LP not the CD in 2014, so we can't hear Reading Gaol, but the person posting reviewed the CD as well. (extract) Hush, the original vinyl album recorded by Sydney group Extradition, remains one of the most rarest albums released by an Australian artist. Prices several years ago were above $100, (in 2020 they are still valuable & a pristine LP sold for $4908 in 2014. sandra |
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28 Jun 20 - 09:15 AM (#4061864) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: rich-joy Thanks so much for your post, Colan! Shayna has emailed me too. I will reply to you both within a couple of days. (but it rather looks like I am back to looking for "Chris Couveau" to hopefully solve the mystery of just who put Oscar's words to Bayard's music!!!) Cheers, R-J Qld |
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30 Jun 20 - 05:43 PM (#4062224) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: GUEST Having listened to Bayard again I think that Col Dryden's melody is original- and not derivative. Col Dryden's bass notes- so essential to the song- are absent from ' I saw her as she came and went 'which also doesn't flow as lyrically as Colin's song. I think that a large part of the enquiry will be answered by discovering if Dominic Behan's shortening of the poem differs from Col's. If it does then that's proof enough for me that Col Dryden's ' Reading Gaol ' is his own work. Nice to read you all :) xx |
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30 Jun 20 - 10:52 PM (#4062263) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: rich-joy Well GUEST 30June20 (is that you, Colan?), it is indeed tempting to agree that Colin wrote the tune, IF I hadn’t been in possession of this aforementioned 1966 Oak Publication (“The Coffeehouse Songbook”) which includes both songs : “I Saw Her As She Came and Went” AND “The Ballad of Reading Gaol”, complete with scores and lyrics. Now Colin Dryden came to Australia from Bradford, Yorkshire, in 1965, as a 22 year old. As noted previously, “Reading Gaol” is noted in that Songbook as being sung to the same tune as “I Saw Her….”, in 1962, by a Chris Couveau. He/She used 3 verses and Colin used the SAME 3 verses, with an additional one that set the song. Did Colin have a copy of that Oak Publication?? Had another singer taught him that song?? One of the rare sung versions of “Reading Gaol” on YouTube is 5min46secs by Colin Rudd and he mentions that Dominic Behan reduced the poem of 109 stanzas to a selection which Colin Rudd then put his own music. Only 2 of those many verses correspond with the 4 verses that Colin Dryden used. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhC8wVGq1uk Interestingly, though Bayard Rustin has been credited with the writing of “I Saw As She Came and Went” and folks have said it was his “signature tune”, there is NOW a recording on YT of Bayard in 1952 playing lute and singing this song in classical style – and its provenance is listed as “unknown”!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfKHTN4Ua-M ….. sigh ….. I am almost resigned to the thought that I shall probably never know the true provenance of Colin’s rendering of “Reading Gaol” – too many of the folks who would know, have passed on - and yes, I know many would say “What on earth does it matter??!” But, sometimes the terrier in me just doesn’t want to let go - guess I am a Folkie, after all :) I do believe though, that he evolved the existing tune (as one does!) and the resulting combination of the verse selection, beautiful tune, and very moving singing/playing, makes for an unforgetable contribution to both Wilde’s legacy and Folk Music generally (despite it not being widely known!) I know that of all the many songs sung by my late beloved, Paul Lawler, THIS song was always my favourite!! Colin’s niece Naomi Dryden-Smith (Hood?), has some of his music on Soundcloud, including this “Reading Gaol” by EXTRADITION (which of course includes Colan & Shayna!) : https://soundcloud.com/nomeshome/ballad-of-reading-gaol For those wishing to know more of the late Colin Dryden, read Naomi’s 2 posts here : https://naomidryden-smith.tumblr.com/ "Not Your Average Uncle" - the story of her researching the history of her mysterious, legendary uncle is in her 30July2013 post - and the late Dermott Ryder's earlier write up on Colin and his songs is included in her 17March2020 post. Naomi’s YT channel is : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhAst8SnAb4 , with one of Colin’s original songs, “SITHER”, and many photos. Thanks to you all. Cheers, R-J (in Qld) |
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30 Jun 20 - 10:58 PM (#4062264) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: rich-joy Forgot to mention that in my search for "Chris Couveau", the only real clue I found was a Library of Congress catalogue where someone of that name copyrighted a song in 1949, called "If I Had My Choice". Ring any bells??!! R-J :) |
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01 Jul 20 - 03:28 AM (#4062271) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: Sandra in Sydney Mudcatter Daniel Kelly has also recorded all of Colin Dryden's songs Rich-Joy - Did Colin have a copy of that Oak Publication?? The Bush Music Club was offering copies of Oak publications to members in the 60s, so I'm sure that UK folkies could also get them, & if he didn't own it someone else might have. Not in any way proof, but ... |
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01 Jul 20 - 04:58 AM (#4062273) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: rich-joy No way of knowing, Sandra! Oak Publications were certainly like the Gold Standard .... I still have quite a few myself. (well, if the silverfish haven't completely destroyed them, that is : bane of my Queensland Life - was never plagued with the little buggers in my WA or NT years - Grrrr!) R-J |
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01 Jul 20 - 10:13 AM (#4062297) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: Sandra in Sydney if it's not silverfish, it'd be something else ... |
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01 Jul 20 - 07:00 PM (#4062361) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: rich-joy and speaking of (the actual) Reading Gaol (built 1844, closed 2013), this was recent news : British Ministry of Justice rejects bid to save historic Reading Gaol for local Arts Centre; many fear "luxury flats" by developers will be the site's fate..... 07April2020 : https://www.wokinghampaper.co.uk/matt-rodda-disappointed-at-decision-not-to-sell-reading-gaol-to-council/ and https://www.getreading.co.uk/all-about/reading-prison R-J |
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01 Jul 20 - 07:37 PM (#4062369) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: rich-joy Also, it has perhaps been remiss of me not to mention here, the work that Aussie singer-songwriter - and Mudcatter! - Daniel Kelly, has put in, researching Colin and his music, and refreshing his songs for a whole new audience. Catter Sandra in Sydney also linked to him and his resulting recordings, in an above post. Read of Daniel's Dryden journey here (in 6 parts) : http://www.folklounge.org/tag/colin-dryden/ Cheers, Daniel !! R-J PS English folksinger-songwriter, Gerry Hallom, an occasional Mudcat poster and friend of Colin's when he lived Down Under for a few years, is known to have collated his recordings of Colin for friends. And it has been rumoured now for many years, that Dave Brannigan (& Derryk Chetwyn?) in Oz, have been about to release a CD (or two?) for sale of Colin's known recordings - does anyone have the latest reliable news of this long-awaited project??!! COLIN DRYDEN (23July1943 - 28July1988) |
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01 Jul 20 - 07:42 PM (#4062371) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: Sandra in Sydney Guest, Branno has occasionally posted here, but I don't know how to contact him, tho if he does live in Melbourne, somebody I know must know him. |
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16 Aug 20 - 07:19 AM (#4068528) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: GUEST,Colan Campbell Thanks for your info., R-J. I think you've covered it . Yes, it now seems that Col ' evolved ' the melody- and very well too, judging by the interest it. Thanks again. Colan. |
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16 Aug 20 - 11:15 AM (#4068549) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: Sandra in Sydney Colan, I was just playing that marvellous CD. Reading Gaol & Ice are my favourite tracks. Recently I thought the CD was dying as ICE was scratched, but buying a new CD player showed the problem was the old machine (YAH!), replacing the CD is almost impossible - Amazon has a copy for $460. |
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02 Sep 20 - 11:20 PM (#4070552) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: rich-joy I had been awaiting a reply about the source of Colin Dryden's version of "The Ballad of Reading Gaol" from his old Sydney mate, Derrick Chetwyn, but after two emails for him, via Mary, I think maybe it's not gonna happen..... The terrier Virgo in me hates to give up, but yes, Colan, in the absence of anyone coming forward about America's Chris Couveau, we'll just have to presume that Colin helped to "evolve" Bayard's melody somewhere along the line!! Thanks to everyone for their help. Cheers, R-J |
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25 Sep 20 - 08:16 AM (#4073072) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: GUEST,colan campbell Hello Sandra- Margret Roadknight made a lovely version of ' Ice ' which is on her Facebook page. Yes, everybody loves Col's ' Reading Gaol '- it's a cracker ! The Extradition CD , including the Sydney Town Hall tracks, was released by ' Vicious Sloth ' records, in Oz. They'll likely have copies available if you need a spare. :) It's also been released by a Japanese company- ' P-Vine ' Hello rich-joy Yes, I'll go with that too. Good luck to all- stay safe. |
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28 Sep 20 - 07:50 AM (#4073451) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: Sandra in Sydney thanks, Colan "extradition" doesn't come up on Vicious Sloth's website, so I have to look after my copy. Some time back Amazon had P-vine's Extradition for only $96, & no-one has Vicious Sloth's version at the moment, so I definitely have to look after my copy. I'm not on facebook, but found Ice on youtube sandra |
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25 Nov 20 - 07:31 AM (#4080910) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: GUEST,Colan Campbell Hello Sandra Ninety-six bucks a copy, eh. I doubt that each member of Extradition made that much throughout the entire history of ' Hush ' releases ! :) |
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25 Nov 20 - 06:49 PM (#4080953) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: Sandra in Sydney A pristine copy of the record goes for a lot more! did you see my post on June about the record? (extract) Hush, the original vinyl album recorded by Sydney group Extradition, remains one of the most rarest albums released by an Australian artist. Prices several years ago were above $100, (in 2020 they are still valuable & a pristine LP sold for $4908 in 2014. My record was used when I bought it way back in the 70s, so you wouldn't have got any of the $2 I paid! sandra |
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07 Jan 21 - 12:50 PM (#4086919) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: GUEST,Colan Campbell I did have a pristine copy, Sandra. I lost it in 1971, along with my football boots, when my girlfriend threw me out :) |
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07 Jan 21 - 07:21 PM (#4086976) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: Sandra in Sydney oh, no! if you would like a second-hand, unused-for-decades copy, you could email joe@mudcat.org (Joe Offer, mudcat admin) who can fwd. an email to me I've been planning for along time to take my small record collection to an op-shop at some stage. I only have 10-15 records, unlike some friend who have metres of records. sandra (slooooowly downsizing) |
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08 Jan 21 - 01:46 PM (#4087085) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: GUEST,Colan Campbell The ' Hush ' album has been rereleased on CD at least three times, Sandra- and each legitimate reseller sent me a copy or two- so I'm well flush with Extradition recordings :) Thanks for the offer though. x |
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09 Jan 21 - 02:37 AM (#4087167) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: Sandra in Sydney I like to listen to my CD most days, I couldn't imagine not having it. Listeb=ning to it on youtube is not the same sandra |
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27 Mar 21 - 11:38 PM (#4099611) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: rich-joy Well, the question of just where Colin Dryden (1943- got his tune and setting for "The Ballad of Reading Gaol" is apparently still under discussion :) There are now 2 channels where you can enjoy Colin Dryden's amazing, definitive rendition of this Oscar Wilde classic : Eileen Hack's : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uknvqe88CaA and recently, Colin's niece, Naomi Dryden-Smith : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwdqcVf9U_0 Added to Paul Lawler's version : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GH8-spu7Tw Then, with a different tune each, are : Daniel Kelly : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_CcbWof1tA Colin Rudd : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhC8wVGq1uk Gerald Spooner : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIItxRikojI Comrade Matt : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd72uFeswxs and there are probably more sung versions (but I need sustenance)!!! Cheers, R-J |
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28 Mar 21 - 12:07 AM (#4099616) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: rich-joy I thought in light of recent comments on the YT version posted of Colin's classic singing, I should summarize my thoughts after my investigations in this thread over the years, as to the tune's provenance. I have always loved this song, but I don’t believe that it can be said that Colin Dryden wrote this gorgeous tune. My late beloved, Paul Lawler (see YT version), also loved it when he heard Colin sing it at his legendary 1970 performance in Sydney with Extradition (thankfully recorded and available now for ALL to be suitably blown away by!!) He then learnt it from Colin's No. 1 "fan", Gerry Hallom, who was a mate of both singers!! However, I have been exploring the provenance of this beautiful melody for quite a few years, and my investigations have shown that its origins are actually earlier than Colin's time as a performer (who arrived in Australia in 1965 at age 22.) The setting of ‘Reading Gaol’ to this pre-1952 tune** also predates this and THAT was known around the US Coffee House folk scene pre-1962. I tried to explain some of the song’s journey in the notes I wrote for Paul's YT recording, referenced above, and also discussed it, more fully, in THIS Mudcat thread too. I have also been in contact with both Shayna Stewart and Colan Campbell from Extradition and with Gerry Hallom. All had just 'presumed' that Colin Dryden had written the tune - and who knows? - maybe Colin was content to let people think that!!! :) though Colan C did say that Colin D never claimed to have written it, just that it was in his repertoire when Extradition were formed. So in the end, Colan C. and I have agreed that the closest we could say was that Colin D, “helped evolve” Bayard Rustin’s (already evolved) melody, into the song we now know and LOVE!! But I fear that unless more of the older folk who were there in those days, can confirm the details - if indeed they are still alive now – we are sadly, never likely to know the truth!! I feel we are so lucky to have both recordings by these two lovely English singers (both deceased, and one a Yorkie and one a Lancy, LoL!) – though of course, I just wish someone had recorded Paul on one of his ‘better’ renditions, like I have heard years ago, but, “them’s the breaks” :) I feel Naomi (Colin's niece) and I are both on a similar quest, with her to help save and present the excellent music of Colin - and me with Paul's - for posterity!!) Cheers, R-J :) ** Bayard Rustin (deceased), has been credited with composing "I Saw Her As She Came & Went" to an old lute tune ...... But Now, I really do need my coffee!!! :) |
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28 Mar 21 - 07:21 AM (#4099648) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: Daniel Kelly Hi Richenda, Just writing to apologize for deleting all your comments on my You Tube recording of this song. I was requested by Naomi to remove all references to Colin from my rendition. Hope you are keeping well, and also hope the definitive answer regarding authorship might emerge one day. Cheers, Daniel |
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28 Mar 21 - 08:35 AM (#4099653) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: rich-joy Oh, okay ..... Thanks Daniel, for letting me know. Yes, I hope to get the answer one day - but it's a very long shot now! Cheers Mate, R-J |
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28 Mar 21 - 11:53 AM (#4099668) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: GUEST,# https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfKHTN4Ua-M Bayard Rustin singing "I Saw Her As She Came & Went" from a 1952 recording. |
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28 Mar 21 - 02:27 PM (#4099687) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: Mrrzy Just wanted to say, great thread. |
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28 Mar 21 - 03:02 PM (#4099697) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: GUEST,# Notice that Rustin sings, "I saw her as **I** came and went." |
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28 Mar 21 - 07:58 PM (#4099719) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: rich-joy Thanks GUEST,# for re-linking Bayard's piece, which I came across on YT in June last year; good to have it "closer to the action" in this long-time thread :) In the other Mudcat thread concerning that particular piece, I recall someone saying they had read it was based on a poem written for a Nun (I think?) - be good if that ever came to light, coz even though it was known as Bayard's "signature tune", it is uncertain that he actually 100% wrote the song!!! (the music of which was apparently Based On an old Lute exercise piece - a poster named Serafyn? had info on that and there was a YT clip of it) ..........) Cheers, R-J |
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28 Mar 21 - 08:05 PM (#4099724) Subject: RE: Chris Couveau ? Ballad of Reading Gaol From: rich-joy I have refreshed the other thread (in hopes!!) VASHBUL was the name of the 'Catter. Seraffyn was the name of the Lute Player in the clip! R-J |