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23 Mar 04 - 03:50 AM (#1143584) Subject: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,An English Patriot With St George's Day looming on the horizon and English identity being on the agenda, isn't it about time that we started thinking about a national anthem? My own choice would be Blake's Jerusalem. It gives both a positive view of our past (a tad romantic and not quite accurate-Did Jesus really walk on England's soil?)and a hopeful view of the future. It also has a nice tune. I like it better than Flower of Scotland, and that's a damn fine song. |
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23 Mar 04 - 04:09 AM (#1143593) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Dave Hanson A Place Called England, by Maggie Holland. eric |
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23 Mar 04 - 04:12 AM (#1143595) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST Land of Dope and Tory, Smotherer of the free... |
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23 Mar 04 - 04:13 AM (#1143597) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Liz the Squeak I'd vote for 'Melting Pot' - that's what we should be aiming for, and give jingoism the boot. (What we need is a great big melting pot, Big enough to take the world and all it's got..) LTS |
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23 Mar 04 - 04:22 AM (#1143602) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: The Borchester Echo 'Jerusalem' ? Perhaps if done by Billy Bragg. Otherwise I second 'A Place called England'. Oh, and a new patron saint. St Ashley of Hutchings? |
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23 Mar 04 - 04:30 AM (#1143604) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Steve Parkes Poor William must have been turning without cease in his grave since Parry put Jerusalem to music! He would most emphatically not have agreed with its use as that sort of patriotic song. (And Elgar was never happy about Land of Hope & Glory, to save anyone else bringing it up.) A good NA should be properly bloodthirsty; "An impure blood shall irrigate our furrows" looses a little in the translation, but indicates the propper spirit. "Confound their politics, frustrate their knavish tricks" is on the right lines, but it ought to be more to do with defending the Motherland against the evil foreign foe and less to do with better trading agreements and wider territories -- that's for the politicians, not the red-blooded citizens proudly shouting out their love for their place of birth (or chosen land, as the case may be). Remember what that Great Briton Dr Johnson said: "patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel". What we want is patriotism without the scoundrels it attracts, and a song to match. (Maybe you Catters can write one?) We can't arrogate Jesus to ourselves simply because he came to our shores; He belongs to the whole world, and Nationalism isn't what He came here to promote. Look at those countries (no names, no pack drill!) where both sides claim Him as their own and scoundrels of all persuasions make mockery of His teachings. When you hear a robin singing so prettily in your garden, just remember that he's really saying "keep off my patch, you birds, or I'll shove your beak so far down your throat you'll have to sit down to catch worms!" That's the kind of National Anthem we want! (We don't have to mean it; we just have to sound as though we do!) Steve (Black Country/English/British and proud of it!) |
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23 Mar 04 - 05:28 AM (#1143620) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: The Borchester Echo You can't have heard the Bard of Barking do it then! And as an anti-anthem, Billy's 'Take Down the Union Jack' would do just fine. |
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23 Mar 04 - 05:52 AM (#1143635) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,An English Patriot If you think about it, Melting Pot is not so far removed from Blake's Jerusalem, which incidentally, is not jingoistic. It is uplifting, tolerant, outward-looking, and non-exclusive. okay, okay, I know Parry set the poem to music in World War I to inspire England during their fight with Germany; but I think the song transends that. Also, Billy Bragg is quite interested in English Identity, as all Englishmen should be. When Scotland and Wales go, we will be on our own and then we will be forced to think about our place in the world and how we think of ourselves. |
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23 Mar 04 - 06:02 AM (#1143641) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,An English Patriot I quite like these lines from There Will Always Be An England. There will always be an England And England will be free And if England means as much to you as England means to me Then England must mean a very great deal to you indeed. It describes my own patriotic sentiments. Sadly, the rest of the song gets England mixed up with Britain and is a little jingoistic. Its a shame that the song cant be re-written and updated, but with the above lines left in. By the way, does anyone know who wrote this song? |
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23 Mar 04 - 06:17 AM (#1143645) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Truthtroller What's wrong with God save the Queen you bastards!! and we don't want a melting pot thankyou. That's why English, I repeat, ENGLISH folk music is disapearing and all we have to listen to is fucking "world music" It's not right!!!!!!!!! T.T. |
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23 Mar 04 - 06:24 AM (#1143648) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,An English Patriot What is wrong with God Save the Queen? Well, it is a boring song and it has groveling lyrics. However, like you, I hate world music, but this should be for another thread. |
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23 Mar 04 - 06:34 AM (#1143655) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Nigel Parsons There'll always be an England By Parker & Charles Nigel |
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23 Mar 04 - 07:02 AM (#1143667) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: McGrath of Harlow English National Anthem Why start a duplicate tread? |
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23 Mar 04 - 07:02 AM (#1143668) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: harvey andrews I rather like "The Umbrella Man" "Any umber-ellas, any umber-ellas to mend today...." would make you think of England wherever you were. Or maybe we should be the first country to not have a National Anthem, just a National tune, no dreadful lyrics. I vote for the Archers theme tune, or the theme from Dr Who. |
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23 Mar 04 - 07:08 AM (#1143671) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Kevin Sheils Good idea Harvey. How about an amalgam - the Archers theme tune played by the BBC Radiophonic Workshop. |
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23 Mar 04 - 07:13 AM (#1143674) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Dave Hanson God Save the Queen ? for what ? eric |
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23 Mar 04 - 07:41 AM (#1143688) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Dave of Mawkin 'Rule Brittania!' Thats a good un.As an anti one, any of the sex pistols tunes from 'Nevermind the bollocks...' |
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23 Mar 04 - 07:54 AM (#1143693) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST How about Kate Bush's Oh England My Lion Heart..great song |
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23 Mar 04 - 07:55 AM (#1143695) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: songs2play Ralph McTell's England would be a cracking choice. ENGLAND Ralph McTell What is it about you, makes me feel this way? When I'm leaving you, when I'm coming home I'm lost for words to say. And I know your faults and failures, And the troubles that you've been through. But it's more about what happens now And what were coming to. And the echo from the green hills Runs through the city streets, And the sun when it shines on England Well it lifts the heart in me. What is it about you that took men into war? Rows and rows of crosses, who remembers why what for? The corners of these foreign fields, The dust in them concealed. Out of sight but not out of mind, Don't you know that England feels? And the echo from the green hills Runs through the city streets. The rain that falls on England Well it washes care from me. England, oh England England, oh England England, oh England Don't make this out a battle hymn or a song for victory. It's just a way to try to say what England means to me. And our accents and our colours change From the city to the farmland From the moorland to the mountain, From the river to the sea. And the echo from the green hills Runs through the city streets The wind that blows through England Breathes its life in you and me. England, oh England England, oh England England, oh England From the rolling road to the winding lane, From the field to factory, From summer's haze to winter's glaze, And all the colours in between. It's a stillness in the evening. It's the heartbeat that I'm feeling. From Cornwall to Northumberland, From the Pennines to the sea. And the echo from the green hills Runs through the city streets. And the wind that blows through England Well it breathes its life in you and me. England, oh England England, oh England |
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23 Mar 04 - 08:05 AM (#1143701) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: VIN Anything's better than the current one. The tune is dire and the words are grovelling medieval crap that pays homage to an institution that should have been confined to the dustbin of history ages ago. Without wishing any harm to the family that have inherited this nonsence, I long for the day when we become true citizens and not 'subjects'. As for an anthem - how about something from Vaughan Williams? That'd be nice. |
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23 Mar 04 - 08:09 AM (#1143706) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,padgett I vote for t'Holmfirth Anthem |
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23 Mar 04 - 08:09 AM (#1143707) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Elfcall Thank you Harvey - I laughed 'til I cried. The thought of our olympic champions (oxymoron?)collecting their medals and standing through the Dr Who theme was priceless in an otherwise dour day filling out a Community Fund grant form. A crowd of 85,000 at the new wembley do do do do do do doing to the Archer's theme ! Her majesty ready to sit down to a state (paid for) banquet and having to listen to the Eastender's theme. Once again thanks Elfcall |
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23 Mar 04 - 08:13 AM (#1143711) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Fergie In another thread on the same subject I suggested GOD BLESS MOTHER ENGLAND. I paste the lyrics here for your perusal and comments. GOD BLESS MOTHER ENGLAND (Peadar Carney) I'll sing you a song of peace and love, Whack fol the diddle all the di do day. To the land that reigns all lands above. Whack fol the diddle all the di do day. May peace and plenty be her share Who kept our homes from want and care, God bless Mother England is our prayer. Whack fol the diddle all the di do day. cho: Whack fol the diddle all the di do day. So we say, Hip Hooray! Come and listen while we pray. Whack fol the diddle all the di do day. When we were savage, fierce and wild She came like a mother to her child. She gently raised us from the slime Kept our hands from hellish crime, And sent us to Heaven in her own good time. Now our fathers oft were very bad boys. Guns and pikes are dangerous toys. From Bearna Baol to Bunker Hill They made poor England weep her fill, But ould Brittania loves us still! Now Irishmen, forget the past! And think of the time that's coming fast. When we shall all be civilized, Neat and clean and well-advised. And won't Mother England be surprised? Your neighbour Fergus |
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23 Mar 04 - 08:26 AM (#1143723) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST Harvey that's priceless. |
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23 Mar 04 - 09:07 AM (#1143764) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST Yes I'd vote for Dr Who, or maybe The Archers. If not then somthing suitably bloody about how good it is to annexe other peoples countries and treat their people as second class citizans would be suitably historic. After all that is what patriotism is all about when you get to the bones of it! |
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23 Mar 04 - 09:36 AM (#1143789) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: treewind Flanders and Swann: "The English, the English, The English are best!" Anahata PS was this supposed to be an English or British National Anthem? I think some peepul are getting confuzed. |
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23 Mar 04 - 10:05 AM (#1143809) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: McGrath of Harlow medieval - first time I've heard the 18th century described as "medieval". |
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23 Mar 04 - 10:34 AM (#1143827) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: breezy we should hear some of the other countries anthems and count ourselves lucky. Only jealous of Wales are the English. England is spoilt for choice, the English dont really sing as a nation anyway.Just listen to the rugby crowds, sweet bloody chariots, its embarrassing to be English . I blame the demise of songs being part of our musical education in schools. In my days I remember the music teacher belting out songs on the piano and singing away that you had to sing up to be heard, but why was it always me, the outsider, and all the other little buggers sittin there mumblin' The English do not sing, they could if they tried but its not in their culture. Cheerio I'm off, like the preverbial clappers. eastenders, archers haha haha ha listen to that loads o codsballs |
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23 Mar 04 - 10:57 AM (#1143865) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: VIN The words may not be medieval but the sentiment certainly is i reckon. |
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23 Mar 04 - 02:11 PM (#1144055) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Marje The original questioner was quite clear - how about having an anthem for England, as opposed to the British one that is shared with the rest of the UK? But the answers show the usual confusion. When the English can sort out who they are, and remember where England ends and the rest of the UK begins, they'll be ready to start thinking about an anthem of their own. Marje |
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23 Mar 04 - 02:24 PM (#1144067) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: robomatic I'd like to second treewind, Flanders and Swann kind of hit the nail on the head when it comes to the purpose and use of anthi. I kind of like 'London Calling' by The Clash. Either keep the words as they are or change 'em a bit, but wouldn't that be a great beat coming out of the Beeb? |
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23 Mar 04 - 02:30 PM (#1144074) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: McGrath of Harlow National Anthems - all 192 countries There's some good ones in there. Not too mmay. One of my favourites is Romania - give it a listen, stirring stuff. |
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23 Mar 04 - 05:23 PM (#1144230) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Joe_F Has Chesterton's "Rolling English Road" ever been set to music? To this Yank, it really shines amid English patriotic poetry. |
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23 Mar 04 - 05:37 PM (#1144240) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: lady penelope Fergie, that's pure gold. I'd sing it - with relish and enthusiasm - were it our anthum. TTFN Lady P. |
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23 Mar 04 - 05:43 PM (#1144246) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: lady penelope I've always had a soft spot for this one by Sir Cecil Spring-Rice, set to that nice tune wot Holst wrote............... I vow to thee, my country, all earthly things above, Entire and whole and perfect, the service of my love: The love that asks no question, the love that stands the test, That lays upon the altar the dearest and the best; The love that never falters, the love that pays the price, The love that makes undaunted the final sacrifice. And there's another country, I've heard of long ago, Most dear to them that love her, most great to them that know; We may not count her armies, we may not see her King; Her fortress is a faithful heart, her pride is suffering; And soul by soul and silently her shining bounds increase, And her ways are ways of gentleness and all her paths are peace. Though occasionally one does yearn for something with more smiting in.........................Parker! The smith and wessons, I think............. TTFN Lady P. |
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23 Mar 04 - 07:34 PM (#1144336) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Murray MacLeod Thank you Kevin for providing the link to the previous thread. Since this thread here has taken on a life of its own I feel justified in copying and pasting the initial post from that previous thread. Subject: English National Anthem From: Murray MacLeod - PM Date: 08 Mar 01 - 08:18 AM Since the thread on alternative American anthems created such a response, let's see if we can do something similar for the British Isles. I have long been of the opinion that Andy M Stewart's "Rambling Rover" should be the National Anthem of Scotland, but in the (unlikely) event of total independence for the Celtic countries, England is going to need a new National Anthem as well. I propose Derek Brimstone's stirring song should be adopted I'm a fine young Englishman, And I do the best I can I try to be a credit to the nation I don't ask for much at all Just to piss my wages up a wall And win the Duke of Edinburgh Award for fornication Now the English are the best An example to the rest They all should get down on their knees and thank us The Irish are a pest Al except for Georgie Best And the Scots and the Welsh are a bunch of wankers. These are Derek's omly two verses. Some years ago I took the liberty, with his permission, of composing a middle verse which goes like this: You can see me on the street In Benidorm or in Lloret As out of the pub at 5 a.m. I stagger I may act the randy pup But I can never get it up After drinking sixteen pints of Carlsberg lager I feel this song encapsulates the spirit of the modern Englishman in a way which "God Save the Queen" somehow fails to do ................... Murray |
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23 Mar 04 - 08:00 PM (#1144369) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: McGrath of Harlow Of course "I vow to thee, my country, all earthly things above" would be a fair old national anthem for any country. But then, why shouldn't different countries have the same national anthem? When it comes to tunes of course they do, more especially the one for God Save the Queen. (For example, when England played Liechtenstein they had to play it twice. You'd think they'd use a different key, but no - according to my book of National Anthems it's always in G.) Actually it's not a bad tune, it's just that it's always played so ponderously. I remember hearing it on Steel Drums one Notting Hill Carnival, and it sounded pretty good. |
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24 Mar 04 - 02:08 AM (#1144540) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Truthtroller SEND HER VICTORIOUS HAPPY AND GLORIOUS LONG TO REIGN OVER US. GOD SAVE THE QUEEN.......!!!!!!.......Just the job...unless you can identify with pissing your wages up against the wall. T.T. |
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24 Mar 04 - 03:59 AM (#1144577) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Elfcall Joe F - The Rolling English Road has been set to music. I am sure that Maddy Prior (of Steeleye Span) does a version on one of her solo albums (Flesh & Blood as a wild guess away from my CD collection. This version never struck me as anthemic. Elfcall |
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24 Mar 04 - 04:19 AM (#1144587) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Steve Parkes I set it to music mself a couple of years ago, but I never learned the words, so nobody else knows the tune. Steve |
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24 Mar 04 - 05:15 AM (#1144616) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST Elfacall's first posting suggest the English National Anthem would be played at the Olympics!!!! |
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24 Mar 04 - 02:53 PM (#1145073) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Tam the Bam (Nutter) I think as a Scot, that God save the queenn no! because it is about crushing the Scots, however I think that the English National anthem should be 'the soldier's song' Come on the Irish. only kidding the national anthem for England is 'here's to you sweet lovely England' sung by the Spinners. PS I'm not kidding about the BRITISH national anthem (God save the Queen) |
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24 Mar 04 - 03:02 PM (#1145082) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Martin Gibson How about "England Swings" by Roger Miller |
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24 Mar 04 - 03:19 PM (#1145097) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: McGrath of Harlow Of course they could always keep the tune and pinch the words of the American version, which could just as well apply to England (or most countries, for that matter) - no mention of America whatsoever. ("Pilgrims"? That could just as well be A nod in the direction of Chaucer and St Thomas Beckett): My country,' tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing; land where my fathers died, land of the pilgrims' pride, from every mountainside let freedom ring! My native country, thee, land of the noble free, thy name I love; I love thy rocks and rills, thy woods and templed hills; my heart with rapture thrills, like that above. |
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24 Mar 04 - 03:37 PM (#1145110) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: robomatic I always liked 'My Country 'Tis' and when I was quite young got a sort of cross-cultural thrill when I was in a London Theatre and all the English stood to the same tune. 'Course I soon realized that we'd simply changed the words to what was their tune in the first place, but I have no trouble with that. |
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24 Mar 04 - 05:47 PM (#1145229) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Joe_F Elfcall & Steve: Thanks for letting me know. I would like to hear "The Rolling English Road" sung someday. But it couldn't really be an anthem, even with an appropriate tune. After all, all those teetotal[l]ing Nonconformists are English too, aren't they? Being found in a ditch, and then growing up & going to heaven? Ah, no. |
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24 Mar 04 - 06:11 PM (#1145249) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: The Borchester Echo "A nod in the direction of Chaucer and St Thomas Beckett" So why not have the song about Thomas Beckett's dad, 'Lord Bateman'? |
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24 Mar 04 - 07:02 PM (#1145278) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: paddymac I sorta like Fergie's idea. Kearney also wrote the "Soldiers'Song," and he was an uncle of Brendan Behan. One of those four knighted blighters from Liverpool penned a great "nominee" song suited to the purpose - "Give Ireland Back To The Irish." |
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04 Oct 04 - 04:10 PM (#1288519) Subject: A national anthem for England and much much less! From: GUEST,Leslie from the US of A Comments on several posts above. Bush would have the UK anthem - or for that matter, the World Anthem - be The Star Spangled Banner. Help, help, the American people are in big trouble. As for me, my Liverpudlian mum always told me not to cadge sweets and things. Can someone tell me the derivation? I don't think it has anything to do with the townsfolk of Cadgewith? Still, Cadgewith Anthem has always been a favorite of mine. I found the album of the gentleman whose symphony orchestra included garden hoses and hoovers. You've piqued my interest, I think I'll order it. He's a predecessor to PDQ Bach. In Philadelphia Pennsylvania they have a New Years Day parade called the Mummer's Day Parade. Picture if you will drunken Morris dancers on steroids wearing silk pajamas and sequined, feathered matresses on their shoulders. It would be amusing if we had decent beer over here. Have a good day. |
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05 Oct 04 - 02:31 PM (#1289446) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Big Al Whittle whilst I agree the theme from Bonanza would be an improvement. I'm trying to think of when they use a national anthem. Olympics, the WI, trooping of the colour.... I don't think we need concern ourselves what people sing in these circumstances. i never go any of these places. If we had She'll be coming round the mountain - everybody would join in the I-yi yippies, and perhaps this would give us an edge. Being the only song that everybody knows. |
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05 Oct 04 - 02:52 PM (#1289461) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Blowzabella I'm sorry I'm feeling nautically patriotic at the moment and I like 'Hearts of Oak' or 'Rule Britannia'. I hate the term jingoistic. If you can't be patriotic when singing your national anthem, when can you be? Do any other countries have problems singing of national pride? Surely, one can be proud of one's own heritage, country and culture without being disrespectful of other peoples. If not, we might as well knock trad English/Scottish/Irish/Welsh (insert any other country here including Africa, Jamaica, Breton) music, songs and stories on the head now. A term which is used a lot these days is 'distinctiveness and a sense of place' - please not a melting pot - lets celebrate and recognise everyone's distinctiveness. Not try to pretend that none of our nations have histories Heck - where did all that come from. I'm sorry - I'll go and lie down for a while.... |
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05 Oct 04 - 04:46 PM (#1289539) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Jim McLean Blowzabella, the question posed was 'A national anthem for England' .... 'Rule Britania'? Look at yourself and read your posting!! |
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05 Oct 04 - 04:54 PM (#1289549) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Blowzabella oh sod off Jim - I fancied a rant - if it was thread drift - sorry - so shoot me! (*BG*) |
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05 Oct 04 - 06:52 PM (#1289632) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Jim McLean It wasn't a thread drift. I was merely pointing out that Britania isn't England. |
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05 Oct 04 - 09:20 PM (#1289753) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Barrie Roberts Somebody back there mentioned 'the unlikely event' of the Celtic countries getting their independence. WEll, if that 'unlikely event' occurs, the English may be reminded that England was a Celtic country before the Germans and Scandinavians swiped it. The British might like it back. Some years ago we had a politician called Enoch Powell, who argued that immigrants should not be mistreated, they should merely be offered £1,000 and a ticket home. I wouldn't be so generous where the English immigrants are concerned. £20 and a ticket to Hamburg or Esbjerg would do! |
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05 Oct 04 - 10:12 PM (#1289789) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Malcolm Douglas The subject has been done to death here in the past, and I do wish that people would make the tiny effort required to check the forum before embarking on yet another pointless piece of tedious repetition. Nothing new has been said here, nor is it likely to be. It will only bring the troublemakers and racists crawling out of the woodwork. I would have expected Barrie, who I gather is a lawyer, to know that historical studies have moved on a little since the 18th century; but long-established romantic fantasies are hard to shrug off, I suppose; and the far more interesting and complex truth is less convenient in that it does not conform to the narrow mind-set of inherited prejudice. |
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06 Oct 04 - 04:21 AM (#1289975) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Steve Parkes It's all right for Barrie: he'll only have to move to Wales! (And even if they won't have him, I happen to know he's got friends in Esjberg!) Steve PS If they make me move back to Walsall, can I have your house, Barrie? |
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11 Oct 04 - 05:09 PM (#1294567) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Barrie Roberts Malcolm, I'd love to know where the Anglo-Saxons did come from, if only because it'd make it easier to repatriate them. Steve, the whole point is not having to move to Wales. We ran this show once (and I say that as an half-Welsh, part Anglko-Irish, part Breton, so there!) Barrie |
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11 Oct 04 - 05:16 PM (#1294580) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Blissfully Ignorant How about 'Old England' by The Waterboys? *walks off into the sunset giggling evilly* |
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19 Feb 07 - 04:16 PM (#1972842) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Real English Person "Billy Bragg" is an oikophobe who should have nothing to do with an anthem for the English people to identify with. For God sake, the cretin would rather support Trinidad & Tabago than England in the football. He is yet another snoringly typical perpetually-adolescent cocky traitor who's targeted an English institution to subvert in the name of his utopian ideology. I'm sorry Bragg but, as superior as you so obviously are, YOU do not define what it is to be English. Thank God you are such a boring 'artist'. Keep peddling the multicult propaganda from you lilly white village in South West England! |
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19 Feb 07 - 08:17 PM (#1973124) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Joe_F When I was in Britain (1958 or so), _Punch_ (I think it was) came out with an updated "Rule, Britannia" that ended Fool, Britannia! It never got you much. Learn to dwi-i-i-i-indle like the Dutch. |
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20 Feb 07 - 04:55 AM (#1973399) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Captain Ginger oikophobe? the Greek would seem to suggest someone who dislikes his own home. Is that how you see Bragg? That's not my reading of his work. Have a look here and see what you think. |
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20 Feb 07 - 07:25 AM (#1973490) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Mr Fox I think guest means somebody who dislikes oiks, Cap'n. (Oik = an uncultured person, a yob). Figures. |
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20 Feb 07 - 07:38 AM (#1973502) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Ruth Archer Billy Bragg hung the Trinidaian flag from his balcony during the world cup because it's where his wife comes from. It is part of his son's heritage. Can people now no longer celebrate their diverse heritages without being accused of not being English enough? |
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20 Feb 07 - 07:40 AM (#1973505) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST Who's Billy Bragg? |
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20 Feb 07 - 10:46 AM (#1973701) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST Rule Brittania gets my vote every time. You can all really belt it out. |
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20 Feb 07 - 10:54 AM (#1973710) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Scrump "Roots" by Show of Hands would be good :-) Failing that, the White HareI'llgetmecoat. |
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20 Feb 07 - 01:57 PM (#1973915) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Cragrat Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now by The Smiths (a popular beat combo from the 1980s). |
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20 Feb 07 - 03:52 PM (#1974075) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Nigel Parsons Sydney Carter's EROS Nigel |
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20 Feb 07 - 04:04 PM (#1974090) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Blindlemonsteve The last farewell, a great inspiring song. stooped in our naval traditions and hopelessly optimistic of a great caring fair for all country..... |
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20 Feb 07 - 05:04 PM (#1974133) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Frug Bonzo's Cool Britannia |
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20 Feb 07 - 06:15 PM (#1974236) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Crane Driver Once again - England is NOT the same as Britain!!!! Britain is the island shared by the English, Welsh and Scots. The United Kingdom is Britain plus Northern Ireland. "God save the Queen", for all its faults, is currently the national Anthem of the UK, not of England - that's why the English footie team gets booed for using it when playing against Wales or Scotland. GStheQ should only be used by teams that represent the whole of the UK, not just one region of it - the UK Olympic team is entitled to use it, the England footie boys are not. Of course the English should have their own anthem. The cricket team uses "Jerusalem" - why not? The rugby team uses "Sweet Chariot", mainly because it has rude gestures - appropriate? English athletics (at the Commonwealth Games) used "Land of Hope & Glory", which hardly seems accurate these days. Hopefully the English will be able to choose something that fits - not for me to suggest anything. What's wrong with GStheQ as a national anthem, someone asked. Mainly what's wrong is that its not about pride in your country but about subservience to an individual and her dysfunctional family. There's nothing wrong with being proud of your own country, as long as you allow other people to be proud of theirs, and don't use patriotism as an excuse to attack them. Rant over. Andrew |
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20 Feb 07 - 06:54 PM (#1974294) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: The Sandman I suggest John Cages 4 42 of silence,every religous denomination including the quakers and the yogists would be happy with that.wouldnt it be great to have everyone singing silence,how kind it would be to the tone deafers. |
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21 Feb 07 - 07:00 AM (#1974706) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: eddie1 Great idea Cap'n B - what wonderful opportunities for silent harmonies! Eddie |
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21 Feb 07 - 07:06 AM (#1974709) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Scrump Old England (written by Colin Radcliffe and John Meeks) would be appropriate. It ends: Will the last to leave Old England Please turn out the light. |
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21 Feb 07 - 07:27 AM (#1974728) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Charmain My problem with GSTQ as our national anthem is that its not about our nation its about a person. We should have two new ones - one for England so we can sing it when we play sport against other UK teams and one for Britain that is about Britain - or at the very least mentions the name of the place! I'd personally vote Jerusalem for the former and Land of Hope and Glory or Rule Britannia for the latter. |
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21 Feb 07 - 07:28 AM (#1974730) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Terry McDonald Billy Bragg's wife is from Trinidad........yes but she's white which I assume makes her a member of the 'colonial ruling class.' Oh, and Cliff Richard's an Indian? |
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21 Feb 07 - 07:34 AM (#1974737) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Scrump I and many others think God Save The Queen has a fairly boring and uninspiring tune (the lyrics are not exactly inspiring either, IMO). For a British (as opposed to English) anthem, it would be better to have a rousing tune such as Rule Britannia or Land of Hope & Glory, but as others have said, the lyrics may not be as appropriate today as they once were. For England, I don't know any existing song that would really fit the bill, having a good tune and lyrics appropriate to today. It would be better to write a new anthem. Maybe we could do it here as a joint effort, as per Jim Lad's songwriting by committee attempt. |
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21 Feb 07 - 07:36 AM (#1974741) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: George Papavgeris I cannot think of a more appropriate song than Maggie Holland's "A place called England". |
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21 Feb 07 - 07:56 AM (#1974761) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Ruth Archer "she's white which I assume makes her a member of the 'colonial ruling class." Who are you to make such assumptions? She comes from Trinidad, she has pride in her background, she's passed that pride onto her son...that's all that matters in this context. |
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21 Feb 07 - 08:02 AM (#1974773) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Captain Ginger Good call, George - it's an excellent song. Not the best tune in the world (the Welsh or the French can probably fight it out for honours on that one) but excellent sentiments. |
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21 Feb 07 - 08:41 AM (#1974820) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Terry McDonald And who are you to ask me that? |
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21 Feb 07 - 09:41 AM (#1974882) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: George Papavgeris Come on, Terry, Ruth makes a fair point; i.e. there is no need to second-guess other people's motives. Ruth's aggressively-phrased question was commesurate with your attack on the motives of BB's wife. Let's not escalate further. |
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21 Feb 07 - 09:47 AM (#1974894) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Charmain I agree - Cripes - can we lay off the cross-patch stuff and get back to the point - apparantly somewhere on t'internet there is a petition nominating Gold by Spandeau Ballet as the new national anthem - how do we feel about that? |
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21 Feb 07 - 09:55 AM (#1974905) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Ruth Archer I'm sorry if my question was phrased aggressively - it was not meant to be. I don't know what Juliet D-W's background is, apart from the fact that she grew up in Trinidad. I simply thought it was a bit harsh to make assumptions one way or another, just because she hung a flag outside her house during the world cup that happened to not be English. Sheesh. |
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21 Feb 07 - 10:01 AM (#1974911) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: George Papavgeris Fair response to the statement, Ruth. |
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21 Feb 07 - 10:11 AM (#1974927) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Alec Going back to Charmain's point,I am pleased most Internet petitions come to nought. "Gold" by Spandau Ballet as National Anthem is one of the most preposterous suggestions to come out of the Net, yet. |
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21 Feb 07 - 10:22 AM (#1974941) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Tery McDonald OK, George, fair point! And Ruth. |
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21 Feb 07 - 10:26 AM (#1974944) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Scrump IMO, a better choice than 'Gold' would be There'll Always Be An England (written in 1940 by Ross Parker & Harry Par-Davies). A stirring tune, and the lyrics are: There'll always be an England While there's a country lane, Wherever there's a cottage small Beside a field of grain. There'll always be an England While there's a busy street, Wherever there's a turning wheel, A million marching feet. Which would fit in rather well with the government's attempts to send us all to work on foot, don't you think? ;-) |
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21 Feb 07 - 10:35 AM (#1974951) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Darowyn I read recently -in a book of silly lists that I got for Christmas- that the tune for "God Save The Queen/King" was not an English tune in the first place. Apparently it was originally a song written by French nuns praying for a successful outcome of their King's operation for piles. I forget the exact wording of the original French version- but "God save our King" would be a fair translation. So amongst the reasons for wanting a new national anthem, i.e It's a dirge. It presumes on an ongoing war with the Scots. It's a prayer to a Militiary Specification God. we can add:- It's a rip-off of a French song anyway. Cheers Dave |
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21 Feb 07 - 10:40 AM (#1974954) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST Jerusalem, hands down. Because it is so english. |
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21 Feb 07 - 10:50 AM (#1974968) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Charmain I like Scrump's choice - are there any more lyrics to that one and where can it be heard? |
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21 Feb 07 - 11:11 AM (#1974978) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Scrump Hi Charmain. The words can be found on the web (see below - these are from one site I found). Bear in mind that it was a patriotic song written in wartime, so it may be that all the lyrics wouldn't be as appropriate today. But I don't see why they couldn't be tweaked. I would think the original authors wouldn't mind too much if they knew their song would be the new national anthem. Also, some of the lyrics refer to Britain. Until relatively recently, people would often say 'England' when they meant 'Britain'. Thanks to the Scots and Welsh nationalists, this is no longer the case (I'm saying this is a positive thing, btw, Scots and Welsh readers!). I guess we would want to replace 'Britain' by 'England' in the song if it were to be the English national anthem. It also refers to 'red white and blue' which of course are the British colours rather than England's. Having said the above, I don't think the lyrics are particularly controversial or politically incorrect (but I fully expect somebody will find them so). Here are the lyrics: I give you a toast, ladies and gentlemen. I give you a toast, ladies and gentlemen. May this fair dear land we love so well In dignity and freedom dwell. Though worlds may change and go awry While there is still one voice to cry - - - There'll always be an England While there's a country lane, Wherever there's a cottage small Beside a field of grain. There'll always be an England While there's a busy street, Wherever there's a turning wheel, A million marching feet. Red, white and blue; what does it mean to you? Surely you're proud, shout it aloud, "Britons, awake!" The Empire too, we can depend on you. Freedom remains. These are the chains Nothing can break. There'll always be an England, And England shall be free If England means as much to you As England means to me. I found an mp3 by Jill Daniels here which should give you an idea of the tune. There's also a MIDI version there. If anyone comes up with some alternative lyrics to replace the slightly inappropriate ones above, I'd be interested to see them. |
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21 Feb 07 - 11:39 AM (#1974996) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Charmain How about this... I give you a toast, ladies and gentlemen. I give you a toast, ladies and gentlemen. May this fair dear land we love so well In dignity and freedom dwell. Though worlds may change and go awry While there is still one voice to cry - - - There'll always be an England While there's a country lane, Wherever there's a cottage small Beside a field of grain. There'll always be an England While there's a busy street, Wherever there's a turning wheel, A million marching feet. England through and through? What does it mean to you? Surely you're proud, shout it aloud, "People, awake! To your country be true" She depends upon you. Freedom remains. These are the chains Nothing can break. There'll always be an England, And England shall be free If England means as much to you As England means to me. |
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21 Feb 07 - 12:15 PM (#1975039) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Songster Bob How about sending 'em "This Land Is Your Land," with the place-names changed, of course? After all, we're not using it much. For that matter, they can have a Constitution we're not using, as well. Bob |
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21 Feb 07 - 03:36 PM (#1975205) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: The Vulgar Boatman Alex Glasgow When God created Englishman he must have felt quite proud, That noble creature brave and strong who stands out in a crowd, He loves his country right or wrong, He tolerates some wogs, But nothing does he hate as much as cruelty to dogs. In years gone by he beat his slaves from here to Samarkand, And never stopped until he'd built an empire strong and grand, He beat the French, the Dutch the Hun, Drove the Irish from their bogs, But all the time he ne'er forgot to love his puppy dogs. In England's green and pleasant land there's room for Kings and Queens, And noble folk who understand what sensibility means, They hunt the fox, the hare, the grouse, They set the stag at bay, And afterwards they pay their dues to the R S P C A. Has it all, really... |
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21 Feb 07 - 05:15 PM (#1975296) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Charmain Songster Bob wrote: How about sending 'em "This Land Is Your Land," with the place-names changed, of course? After all, we're not using it much. For that matter, they can have a Constitution we're not using, as well. Cheers Bob - we could do with a written constitution we've not had one since King John promised each of his barons seven pigs apiece in 1215 - I mean they're nice things just to kind of have around even if all you do is take them out and dust them once in a while! And cheers for the song aswell its a good one - tho' I think our Billy (The afore-mentioned Billy Bragg of previous postings) already half-inched it a while back - or tried too at least!! |
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22 Feb 07 - 04:29 AM (#1975757) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Liz the Squeak Today's useless but pertinent information. The Royal Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (RSPCA) was formed long before the National Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC). Seems we were kinder to our dogs than to our children. LTS |
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22 Feb 07 - 05:07 AM (#1975788) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Scrump Charmain, your words to There'll Always Be An England are just the job - well done :-) I'll vote for that for the English National Anthem. It's a good tune too, isn't it? Imagine it being sung by a crowd (instead of just one woman on that link I found). |
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22 Feb 07 - 05:09 AM (#1975791) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Scrump Today's useless but pertinent information. The Royal Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (RSPCA) was formed long before the National Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC). Seems we were kinder to our dogs than to our children. How is that pertinent to an English National Anthem, LTS? (I don't dispute your point, I just wondered why you posted it in this thread) |
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22 Feb 07 - 05:13 AM (#1975793) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Scrump Wahey! 100, and I didn't know it! |
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22 Feb 07 - 05:37 AM (#1975810) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Liz the Squeak It was pertinent to the penultimate posting to mine by the Vulgar Boatman, which stated that we weren't cruel to dogs anymore. Rotten sod.. I was going for my 4th '00' of the day! LTS |
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22 Feb 07 - 05:45 AM (#1975815) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST How about "Sorry seems to be the hardest word" :0) |
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22 Feb 07 - 05:49 AM (#1975819) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Scrump Some people are just plain greedy when it comes to '00's! :-) (Oops! another apology due. Sorry, I didn't connect your comment with the Alex Glasgow song) |
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22 Feb 07 - 07:27 AM (#1975852) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Charmain Cheers Scrump! |
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22 Feb 07 - 07:39 AM (#1975858) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,heed Well, if you want jerusalem to be the English national anthem then you can vote for it here: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Anthems/ And there is actually an organisation/ website campaigning for an english anthem. You can find it here: http://anthem4england.co.uk/ http://anthem4england.co.uk/modules/wordpress/ And for debates about the english national anthem and englisness in general see here: http://www.thecep.org.uk/news/ hope it helps.... |
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22 Feb 07 - 10:30 AM (#1976003) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Chris Murray Forgive me if this has been mentioned before - but does anyone else remember Billy Connolly suggesting that we should adopt the theme from 'The Archers' as our National Anthem because it's more cheerful than the one we've got? I've always thought that was a good idea. |
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23 Feb 07 - 07:02 AM (#1976864) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Scrump we should adopt the theme from 'The Archers' as our National Anthem But it would need words writing for it - any takers? Or should we all go: Dum, de dum, de dum, de dum Dum, de dum, de dum, click (I believe that's the whole tune, isn't it?) |
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23 Feb 07 - 07:22 AM (#1976877) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: guitar as a Scot I think it either be Jeruslem (blake) or one by the Spinners called 'here's to sweet lovely England, both great songs and both which I love. Tom |
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23 Feb 07 - 08:24 AM (#1976924) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,English Jon How about the agincourt carol? or given that the royals are all german, how about the slow movement from Haydn quartet op.75? Cheers, Jon I recorded the famous bit out of Jupiter from holst's planet suite a while back - don't really hold with jingo-ism, but it's a great bit of English music. |
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23 Feb 07 - 12:47 PM (#1977121) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST Ohhhhhhhh. I do like the idea of the Agincourt carol. |
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24 Feb 07 - 04:14 AM (#1977716) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: George Papavgeris The theme from the Archers, eh? Hmm, let's see... Village greens and corner shops, that to me is England fragrant fields with summer hops, that is England too. Signs that say "tonight we fry", fish and chips for tea, bobbies that you ask for time, ice cream by the sea, "Kiss me quick" and candyfloss jellied eels and winkles, all of that and so much more England is to me. Blowing chunks on Friday night, that to me is England schoolkids that can't read or rite, that is England too. Pubs with giant TV screens, shops all boarded up, broken noses, broken dreams, "Watford for the Cup", Fun that's measured by the pint, politics with spin, nowhere better will you find - England, where 've you been? |
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24 Feb 07 - 04:17 AM (#1977718) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Scrump Steve Knightley, eat your heart out! :-) |
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24 Feb 07 - 06:08 AM (#1977767) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Dave the Gnome Arthur Conan-Doyle - Song of the Bow What of the bow? The bow was made in England: Of true wood, of yew-wood, The wood of English bows; So men who are free Love the old yew-tree And the land where the yew-tree grows. What of the cord? The cord was made in England: A rough cord, a tough cord, A cord that bowmen love; And so we will sing Of the hempen string And the land where the cord was wove. What of the shaft? The shaft was cut in England: A long shaft, a strong shaft, Barbed and trim and true; So we'll drink all together To the grey goose-feather And the land where the grey goose flew. What of the mark? Ah, seek it not in England, A bold mark, our old mark Is waiting over-sea. When the strings harp in chorus, And the lion flag is o'er us, It is there that our mark will be. What of the men? The men were bred in England: The bowmen--the yeomen, The lads of dale and fell. Here's to you--and to you! To the hearts that are true And the land where the true hearts dwell. One of our club residents, Ged Todd, has set it to music and included a chorus - The flax, the feather and the yew Together in England grew And with hearts so true Brought glory to this land Gets my vote :-) Cheers Dave |
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24 Feb 07 - 11:46 AM (#1978002) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Taffy And what of the song? The song was made in Scotland! |
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24 Feb 07 - 12:58 PM (#1978089) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Terry McDonald But Conan Doyle spent most of his life in southern England, and is buried there. He couldn't choose where to be born, or to choose his (Irish) parents, but could choose where to live. |
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24 Feb 07 - 05:33 PM (#1978359) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Dave the Gnome Whan the Scots or Irish start writing songs praising the English it must tell you something... :D |
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25 Feb 07 - 01:02 PM (#1978960) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: autolycus How about a world anthem? Ivor |
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26 Feb 07 - 10:34 AM (#1979854) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Scrump World anthem? How about We Are The World? Maybe we need an anthem for our Solar System. Rise Up Like The Sun? The Sun Has Got His Hat On, Hip Hip Hip Hooray! :) |
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01 Mar 07 - 10:05 AM (#1982730) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST How about Kate Bush's "Lionheart" ? |
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01 Mar 07 - 10:23 AM (#1982741) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST Has no-one suggested He Is An Englishman from HMS PInafore by G+S? |
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01 Mar 07 - 10:46 AM (#1982772) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Scrump I still vote for the modified version of "There'll Always Be An England" above. It's got what an anthem should have - a stirring tune and uplifting words. |
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01 Mar 07 - 12:27 PM (#1982866) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Stu "but about subservience to an individual and her dysfunctional family" Not all of us - don't believe everyone in England subscribes to the dubious values of the Royal Family. I find it interesting how little the English identify with their Celtic heritage. Although many of the main artefacts (both physcical and cultural) are relatively well known, they are never identified as being Celtic. Indeed, the English are far more aware of their pre-Celtic heritage which is obviously so visible in many areas. Shame, really. |
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02 Mar 07 - 05:51 AM (#1983668) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Scrump "but about subservience to an individual and her dysfunctional family" Not all of us - don't believe everyone in England subscribes to the dubious values of the Royal Family. True. You can be proud of your country and be a republican. That's why I favour an anthem that doesn't mention the royal family or other dubious aspects such as the building of empires at the expense of other countries, or celebrating victories over other countries in war. The most important aspect to me, that I would like to see in an anthem, is the freedom we enjoy, fought for and won by our forefathers, and which I regret is continually being eroded by the present government. |
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02 Mar 07 - 07:27 AM (#1983730) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Gavin Atkin What Celtic heritage are you thinking of Stigweard? Apart from the Cornish, I didn't think we had one, so I tried Google, and the first page didn't turn up much evidence. Gav |
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02 Mar 07 - 10:07 AM (#1983886) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,ib48 nelly the elephant or lip up fatty |
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02 Mar 07 - 11:03 AM (#1983965) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Stu "What Celtic heritage are you thinking of Stigweard?" Good question. Try these for starters: Well, Wikipedia has an several interesting articles on this subject here, or here to get up and running. Extant Celtic traditions in England (as well as Scotland) are discussed in the excellent book Twilight of the Celtic Gods, which will can get for considerably less on ebay or by borrowing at your local library. And that's before I mention King Arthur (a tradition still shared with our Celtic neighbours), The Battersea Shield, Lindow Man, Boudicaa etc etc etc. My opinion is most of the indiginous population of our Islands are probably decended from the people who arrived after the last ice age. The following periods (Beaker people, Celts, Romans, Saxons, Normans etc) have seen successive cultural shifts rather than actual mass movement of populations we know many British (Celts or whatever) adapted readily to the Roman lifestyle for instance. This is borne out by DNA studies on very ancient Britons, such as Cheddar Man. His decendant opened the local exhibition about the subject. I think I prefer the idea of our Islands without borders which is the land our Celtic ancestors would have known before the Roman invasion. A national anthem for England? I like Spancil Hill. |
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02 Mar 07 - 12:20 PM (#1984053) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: guitar as a scot I tihnk that England Anthem should be Blake's Jersluem (pardon the spelling) |
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02 Mar 07 - 12:22 PM (#1984057) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: guitar C Doyale was born in Scotland, but hey he did live in England |
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11 Dec 07 - 02:06 PM (#2213237) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Scott The Gent Does anyone know if I can find the Arthur Conan-Doyle - Song of the Bow music anywhere or do people just have the lyrics? to_scott@hotmail.co.uk Thanks! |
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11 Dec 07 - 05:15 PM (#2213379) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: McGrath of Harlow Here you are, Scott (I just typed Song of the Bow into Google, and it came up in the first entry) : What of the bow? The bow was made in England: Of true wood, of yew wood, The wood of English bows; So men who are free Love the old yew tree And the land where the yew tree grows. What of the cord? The cord was made in England: A rough cord, a tough cord, A cord that bowmen love; So we'll drain our jacks To the English flax And the land where the hemp was wove. What of the shaft? The shaft was cut in England: A long shaft, a strong shaft, Barbed and trim and true; So we'll drink all together To the gray goose feather And the land where the gray goose flew. What of the men? The men were bred in England: The bowman--the yeoman-- The lads of dale and fell Here's to you--and to you; To the hearts that are true And the land where the true hearts dwell. |
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11 Dec 07 - 05:32 PM (#2213393) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: The Sandman fings aint wot they used to be,might be apt. |
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11 Dec 07 - 05:52 PM (#2213404) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: McGrath of Harlow Couldn't thing the tune for Song of the Bow online - but here's a CD which contains the tune Florence Aylward put to it. |
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11 Dec 07 - 10:03 PM (#2213556) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: TRUBRIT My choice would have to be Jerusalem -- which started thisthread. Thisyear at the Getaway we did a mummers play and ended up singing a rousing version of Jerusalem...such fun! |
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11 Dec 07 - 10:46 PM (#2213576) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST Just a thought- Do the English really want to use an anthem that's under copyright? T'would make a pretty penny for the composer/author. |
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12 Dec 07 - 05:47 AM (#2213678) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Lindsay In Wales I would vote for "The Yeomen Of England" from the operetta "Merrie England" by Edward German and Basil Hood. First performed in the Savoy Theatre in 1904. Where are the yeomen, the yeomen of England? In homestead and in cottage They still dwell in England Stained with the ruddy tan God's air doth give a man Free as the winds that fan The broad breast of England And nations to eastward And nations to westward As foemen may curse them The Yeomen Of England No other land could nurse them But their mother-land Old England And on her broad bosom shall they ever thrive |
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12 Dec 07 - 08:36 AM (#2213758) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Rog Peek Ralph McTell's 'England' would get my vote. Certainly couldn't sing 'God Save The Queen', I'd choke on it! Rog |
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12 Dec 07 - 08:38 AM (#2213759) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST My vote would be for: Coronach (Words and music by David Palmer - with a little help from Shakespeare) Grey the mist, cold the dawn; Cruel the sea and stern the shore. Brave the man who sets his course For Albion. Sweet the rose, sharp the thorn; Meek the soil, proud the corn. Blessed the lamb that would be born Within this green and pleasant land. Brown furrows shine beneath the rain-washed blue. Bright crystal streams from eagle mountains pour. Fortune has smiled on those who wake anew, Within this fortress nature built to stay the hand of war. With the wind from the east Came the first of those to tread Upon this stone, this throne of kings; This realm, this new Jerusalem. |
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12 Dec 07 - 11:28 AM (#2213868) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: theleveller Why on earth do we need a national anthem? They're mostly just jingoistic crap. Patriotism doesn't need the type of manufactured emotional outpouring we see Americans indulge in (land of the free, my arse). What could be more dignified when (if) we ever win anything ever again, than just standing in silence for a minute or so and contemplating the moment? |
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12 Dec 07 - 11:58 AM (#2213884) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: McGrath of Harlow I still think Yellow Submarine would be a great choice - especially with its lines "Our friends are all aboard, Many more of them live next door" |
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12 Dec 07 - 12:45 PM (#2213908) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: The Sandman leveller, good point ,I did suggest earlier, John Cages4 minutes whatever |
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13 Dec 07 - 03:16 AM (#2214296) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: theleveller Apologies for missing that, cap'n. Silence is even more effective when it has a title. |
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13 Dec 07 - 01:57 PM (#2214663) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: McGrath of Harlow I enjoy many national anthems. Often they can be the most entertaining parts of international sporting occasions.Here is a website with words and tunes, including the details for the ones that have been scrapped and replaced over the years. (One of my favourites is the Romanian one - written 1848, but only adopted as the national anthem in 1990.) |
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14 Dec 07 - 07:32 AM (#2215139) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Big Al Whittle Hooray! Hooray! I'm glad to be Brit I went abroad on holiday And found that it was shit |
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14 Dec 07 - 08:01 PM (#2215611) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: McGrath of Harlow That wouldn't count as an English national anthem. Though I suppose the only people who might ever call themselves "Brits" would in practice be English. And not too many of them. |
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15 Dec 07 - 06:14 AM (#2215814) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Rog Peek Yes McGrath, and most of them would probably be living abroad. Rog |
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15 Dec 07 - 09:11 AM (#2215880) Subject: Lyr Add: SAINT GEORGE (John Kirkpatrick) From: Mikefule A difficult one. I am generally against "nationalism" because it strays so easily into jingoism, but I think England is a great place to live and we have a lot to be proud of. I don't like "God Save the Queen" because the main thrust of it's argument relies on a request to a God I do not believe in supporting an institution I do not believe in. Below are the lyrics to a John Kirkpatrick song, which has a chorus that is easy to sing. Being an atheist, I'm not entirely in favour of saints, but I can grit my teeth and regard St. George as a metaphor. Certainly the English dragon-killing chivalrous knight never existed, so we can make of him whatever we wish. The "real" St. George was born in Israel, a soldier in the Italian army, and is patron saint of Portugal, Canada and Macedonia, if I remember correctly. How melting pot is that? Saint George From John Kirkpatrick I am St. George. I'm a champion bold, And over old England my flag I'll unfold. My sword fights for justice, with truth for my shield, And when I come riding I never shall yield. CHORUS: And on my breast, a red red rose, The flower of old England wherever she grows. I fought with a dragon and brought it to shame. I was killed seven times but I still fought again. I was killed seven times but it did me no ill. If the battle be true, then I'll fight again still. In the cause of all freedom, my banner shall wave. The oppressed and down trodden my sword it shall save. In the righting of wrongs, I never shall tire. That the weak become strong is all my desire. I'll watch o'er your horses, your house and your land, And if you have none, still your friend I will stand. I'll strengthen your courage for all you hold dear, To vanquish all doubt, and banish all fear. Now be sure in your heart if you call on my name, For I fight with a fury of fire and flame. Any lies or deceit, to a cinder I'll burn, And once you invoke me, I never shall turn. For I have the power to pierce to the heart. I strike like the lightning. I can tear you apart. On hoof-beats of thunder, o'er England I'll ride. What foe can defy you with me by your side? |
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15 Dec 07 - 12:47 PM (#2215984) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice Anything written by Ray Davies *LOL* |
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15 Dec 07 - 06:14 PM (#2216150) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Jock 'Land of dope and tory, Smotherer of the free ...' |
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15 Dec 07 - 07:37 PM (#2216177) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: McGrath of Harlow Then of course there is always Mad Dogs and Englishmen... |
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15 Dec 07 - 08:16 PM (#2216191) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Backwoodsman "or given that the royals are all german" We-e-e-e-ll, the Queen, her children and grandchildren were all born in the UK. I'm fairly certain that endows them with British nationality. And the Queen's husband was born on Corfu, which surely makes him a Corfiot? Not many Germans there. |
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15 Dec 07 - 11:22 PM (#2216280) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: TRUBRIT Anything by Ray Davies-- what about Waterloo Sunset????? Certainly an anthem to a city if not a country...... |
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16 Dec 07 - 02:28 PM (#2216599) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice "what about Waterloo Sunset?????" Actually I had that song in mind when I thought about Ray Davies songs as anthem. The Village Green Preservation Society also has a number of pieces that might be considered. |
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16 Dec 07 - 09:05 PM (#2216862) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Fred Maslan From a country that didn't have an official anthem till the 1930's, I'd say you're better off without one. The "star spangled banner" is basicaly unsingable to begin with and when someonne sings it a little bit jazzy or "interpreted". people get uptight. Anthems become sanctified and sacrosanct, immutable and untouchable and ultimately meaningless. It's not worth it, don't do it. |
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17 Dec 07 - 06:53 PM (#2217625) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: McGrath of Harlow Nothing unsingable about the Star Spangled Banner, if pitched right. The tune is a pleasant drinking song with room for enjoyable harmonies. Sounds pretty terrible when sung with excessive emotion. Or "interpreted", which sounds to me a pretty disastrous notion with any anthem. The fashion for treating anthems as opportunities for hyped-up solo singers to show off is much to be lamented. The thing to do is just play the tune, and leave it up to the crowd or the players or whatever to sing along if they feel up to it. |
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20 Aug 11 - 06:55 AM (#3209865) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Steve W Speaking of this subject, I've just launched a government e-petition calling for "Oh England, My Lionheart" to be adopted as the English National Anthem (England doesn't currently have one of its own. We have to use the overall UK anthem instead). If it receives 100,000 signatures, the matter has to be considered by parliament. Therefore I'd be grateful to any British visitors who take the time to sign it. The petition can be signed here: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/12159 Thanks for your time. :) |
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20 Aug 11 - 07:37 AM (#3209876) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Dave Hanson You must be joking Steve W, it's bloody appaling, not even the slimmest chance of even getting 100,000 sigs let alone being accepted. By the way, are you the author of it ? Dave H |
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20 Aug 11 - 12:40 PM (#3209969) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Allan Conn "Queen, her children and grandchildren were all born in the UK. I'm fairly certain that endows them with British nationality" And of course she can trace her British ancestry back more than a millenium on both the English and Scottish sides |
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20 Aug 11 - 02:05 PM (#3209999) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Azoic June Tabor singing Maggie Holland's "A Place Called England". |
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26 Aug 13 - 02:22 AM (#3552879) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Joe Offer I thought this was an interesting collection of English anthems. Source: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/rulebritannia.asp#Rule Britannia
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26 Aug 13 - 02:53 AM (#3552882) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Jim Carroll A friend of ours, while working as a visiting speaker on theatre at London schools, took the opportunity to record some of the childrens' songs, rhymes and games. He was given this gem from a pupil at an East London school: "Rule Britannia, Marmalade and jam. Five Chinese crackers up your arsehole, Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang." Jim Carroll |
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26 Aug 13 - 04:03 AM (#3552893) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Blandiver I think the National Anthem should be instrumental, emotive, instantly recognised & so beloved of the people that it stirs joy into the hearts on account of its quintessential Englishness. To this end I suggest Ron Grainer's venerable Old Ned, better known, of course, as the theme from Steptoe & Son. Otherwise, as the good old anarchist slogan had it: I will not stand for the National Anthem. For the benefit of our American viewers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7ly_tp-9SY |
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26 Aug 13 - 04:14 AM (#3552897) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: MGM·Lion I have always thought that the opening lines of I Vow To Thee... are grounds for divorce: "Entire & whole & perfect the service of my love"? "Entire"? What about one's wife or husband, then: don't they get any??? Nobody seems to have mentioned what has always seemed to me the main thing to be said in favour of the present one ~~ its delightful brevity. When one has sat, waiting for the match to begin, thru some interminable boring tune in three distinct parts lasting about three whole minutes from some visiting nation, it's so lovely to know when they strike up our anthem that in a very few seconds [fewer than 30, I make it, including the opening drum roll] it will be over and the teams can get on with it. As to the words: well, not that inspiring, but they are what we have; not particularly broke, so why bother to fix? A traditionally revered figurehead of state seems to me as worthy of standing as symbol of the nation as a starry or tricolor flag fluttering in the breeze. As for the truculent "watch it you foreigners" element that some above have expressed desire for, as in watering plough-furrows with enemy blood like that lot just over there, or banners waving under gunfire like that other lot a bit further off in the other direction ~~ surely all that is subsumed under the one key word "Victorious"? So, again ~~ If it ain't bust, don't fix it ~~ one of the wisest of all proverbs IMO. ~Michael~ |
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26 Aug 13 - 04:33 AM (#3552902) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Will Fly Oh well, IF we have to have a national English anthem - all part of the National Cliché such as we see in tat shops down Oxford Street: namely, models of London buses, the union flag (always wrongly called the jack), bowler hats, model pillar boxes, etc., etc. - then let's have one which nails the Little Englanders' colours to the mast. Flanders and Swann's "Song of Patriotic Prejudice". The English, the English, the English are best: I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest! The rottenest bits of these islands of ours, We've left in the hands of three unfriendly powers, Examine the Irishman, Welshman or Scot, you'll find he's a stinker or not. The Scotsman is mean, as we 're all well aware, And bony and blotchy and covered with hair, He eats salted porridge, he works all the day, And he hasn't got bishops to show him the way. The English; the English, the English are best: I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest! The Irishman, now, our contempt is beneath, He sleeps in his boots and he lies in his teeth, He blows up policemen (or so I have heard), And blames it on Cromwell and William the Third. The English are noble, the English are nice, And worth any other at double the price! The Welshman's dishonest, he cheats when he can, And little and dark, more like monkey than man, He works underground with a lamp in his hat, And he sings far too loud, far too often, and FLA-A-A-T. And crossing the Channel, one cannot say much, For the French or the Spanish, the Danish or Dutch; The Germans are German, the Russians are Red, And the Greeks and Italians eat garlic in bed. The English are moral, the English are good, And clever and modest and misunderstood! And all the world over, each nation's the same, They've simply no notion of Playing the Game: They argue with umpires; they cheer when they've won; And they practise beforehand, which ruins the fun! The English, the English, the English are best: So up with the English, and down with the rest! It's not that they're wicked or naturally bad ... It's knowing they're FOREIGN that makes them so mad! For the English are all that a nation should be, And the flower of the English are Donald (Michael!) and me!! |
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26 Aug 13 - 05:40 AM (#3552909) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Grishka Thanks, Will, for reminding us of Flanders and Swann, certainly among the flower of English humour. The adequate flag is of course the St George's cross. Sometimes it takes a divorce to become good friends, as purported in the case of Czechs and Slovaks. The Jack was originally the flag hoisted on the foremast, and could now well be replaced by the flag of the United Nations, bypassing the European Union (serves them right in Brussels!). |
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26 Aug 13 - 10:34 AM (#3553000) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Allan Conn I can't quite see why the likes of Rule Britannia or the British Grenadiers would be regarded as suitable for being specifically an English anthem! Incidentally, as an aside, the words of Rule Britannia were written by Scottish poet James Thomson who was born in the tiny village of Ednam just outside of my home town of Kelso. Henry Francis Lyte who wrote the words for Abide With Me comes from the same tiny village. As did Captain Cook's father but that isn't quite so impressive :-) |
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26 Aug 13 - 12:46 PM (#3553048) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Joe Offer Remember, Allan, that the piece I posted was titled "British Imperialistic Anthems." I don't think the author was proposing them for current use. -Joe- |
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26 Aug 13 - 02:57 PM (#3553102) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Allan Conn I wasn't commenting on the piece as much as your own introduction to it. "I thought this was an interesting collection of English anthems" Was just pointing out that for instance the words to Rule Britannia are about Britain as a whole and not just England = and they were written by a Scot. It isn't an English anthem. I know us non-English Brits can be a but pernickity about that but you should be used to it by now :-) |
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26 Aug 13 - 03:36 PM (#3553118) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: McGrath of Harlow Actually when you look at the words, Rule Britannia isn't particularly imperialst - the words aren't about ruling other countries, they're about controlling the sea so as to ensure that "Britons never shall be slaves", in line with the principle laid down in court in the Sixteenth Century (though frequently ignored subsequently) that English law did not recognise slavery on its soil. People often read subsequent history into National Anthems. People listen to the US Anthem, and hear it as about an overwhelming world power, rather than the relatively weak country struggling desperately to hold on to its independence. In the same way Britain in 1740, when Rule Britannia was written (by a Scot as has been pointed out) wouldn't have felt by any means a dominant country in Europe. Not that that's got anything to do with a possible English anthem - Rule Brittania would never do. |
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21 Apr 21 - 09:35 AM (#4102935) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: GUEST,Ged Wilson Our online folk club (Robin Hood's Bay) is having a St George/Harry/ England etc. theme night this Friday. I'm trying to learn John K's Brilliant Saint George from his "Make No Bones" CD, but I'm struggling with the tune (& running out of time!). Does anyone have 'the dots' or any form of notation, please? |
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21 Apr 21 - 02:42 PM (#4103007) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Jack Campin Re some things upthread that need fixed: Britain doesn't legally have a national anthem. God Save the Quing has never been adopted as such by any act of Parliament (it was written ti be George II's personal anthem, at a time when national anthems didn't exist). And there have been many variant sets of words for it, none ever standardized. A lot of Scots like to get outraged about the second verse quoted here, but there's never been a law to say anyone had to sing it, and it probably hasn't been except on very rare occasions. (Percy Scholes's book "God Save the King!" has everything any sane person would want to know about its history). Parry's "Jerusalem" had strange origins - morphing from oddball militarist propaganda to suffragette anthem within months. The WI only took it up after the suffragettes had achieved their objective. http://www.culturematters.org.uk/index.php/about-us/item/2254-jerusalem-a-hymn-to-women-s-suffrage |
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21 Apr 21 - 05:21 PM (#4103033) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: The Sandman Keep that wheel a turning |
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21 Apr 21 - 07:06 PM (#4103049) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Steve Shaw Blake's Jerusalem is inspiring, but I feel that the spirit of the words has been much misinterpreted. We don't want any Second Amendment shite... The big tune from Holst's Jupiter is wonderful, but not, please, I vow to thee my country. Apart from that, I can't be arsed to think any more. |
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22 Apr 21 - 02:17 AM (#4103076) Subject: RE: A national anthem for England From: Peter the Squeezer How about this one?? Words by Les Barker Tune - Dam Busters by Eric Coates Tracy likes Pina Colada My Uncle Ron drives a Lada We all sing the Birdie Song Then somehow they all know WE'RE ENGLISH Then we change all our Pesatas Then we get laid by the waiters Then we sing the Birdie Song Then we go home |