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19 Apr 04 - 04:13 PM (#1165535) Subject: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: GUEST,mollificent Hey all! I'm working with a young woman who is doing a project on Celtic mythology and its influence on the modern musical tradition. She's looking specifically for songs that reference stories of the great mythological cycles--i.e. the Red Branch, the Children of Lir, etc. Well, I helped her find some ("Silent, O Moyle", etc.) but we're having trouble finding some of the others. I have a hard time believing there aren't any songs out there about Cuchulain/Emer/Fand, the Cattle Raid of Cooley, etc. Anyone have any suggestions about sources? (We'd love to find songs that are being sung today, as opposed to ancient epic texts--she's looking for evidence of the continuing influence of these legends). Any help is appreciated! You can post here or email me at mollificent@hotmail.com, or email her at (I think) Leh-Ander@msn.com (her name's Emily). I directed her to Mudcat, but as a first time user she was having some trouble navigating. :) Thanks in advance! Cheers, Molly |
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19 Apr 04 - 04:27 PM (#1165555) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: michaelr ..."she's looking for evidence of the continuing influence of these legends" I doubt you'll find many songs that fit your criteria -- folk songs have always been more about topical events of the day rather than about ancient legends. But good luck with the search, and I for one would be interested in what you turn unp. Cheers, Michael |
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19 Apr 04 - 04:30 PM (#1165560) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: ard mhacha Another of Thomas Moore`s songs, !Let Erin remember" has a reference to The Red Branch Knights |
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19 Apr 04 - 04:34 PM (#1165565) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: GUEST,mollificent Good grief, you all are fast! :) Thanks...got the Thomas Moore song. We'll do a 'net search too...myths seem to be coming back, so maybe I'll find some stuff. Anuna has been a great source, actually. ;) But I think it might raise a red flag if half of the songs she references are composed by Michael McGlynn. *grin* THanks again... Molly |
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19 Apr 04 - 04:38 PM (#1165570) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Sabine Hi, not really belonging to Irish mythology but well... in a kind of... "An Maighdean Mhara" It's about the love between a seal-maiden and a mortal. Not typical Irish, I know, but maybe of some help... Regards Sabine |
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19 Apr 04 - 05:13 PM (#1165604) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Amergin Long time no see, Molly! Yeats of course did Song of a Wandering Aengus...and a quite a few other poems based on old stories...I think some one did do song about Deirdre...but I cannot remember who...what about writing your own? |
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19 Apr 04 - 05:40 PM (#1165639) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: erinmaidin I believe The Gartan Mother's Lullaby might apply in this instance as in it are references to Eobhail and also the Green Man |
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19 Apr 04 - 10:21 PM (#1165661) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Malcolm Douglas The Green Man and the Seal Folk are imports into Irish tradition, and don't belong in the earlier "classical" myth cycles. Most references in song to those "classical" Irish myth cycles are relatively modern, too. The poets of the Celtic Twilight went in for such things in quite a big way -Moore and A P Graves, for example- and they were followed in this by a good few more vernacular song-makers. Essentially this was a product of the Nationalist revival; most European countries seem to have rediscovered (and usually re-invented) their early mythic heritage during that period. You'll find a fair bit of 19th century material, mostly by known professional writers; and a lot of modern songs, too; though the latter will tend to have been made mostly in the last forty years or so, the majority in the USA; many by "New Age" and "Neo Pagan" performers of the "mix and match" persuasion. |
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19 Apr 04 - 10:32 PM (#1165667) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Big Mick Pat Kilbride's CD entitled "Rock and more Roses" has a wonderful song about the legend of Oisín and Tir na nog. The song is called Tir Na Nog. Great piece with a wonderful feel to it. Mick |
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20 Apr 04 - 03:46 AM (#1165811) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Fear Faire The premise that there is an influence from Celtic mythology on modern musical traditions is a dangerous one and will not support research of much weight. As Malcolm Douglas has pointed out above, most references are neologistic and it should also be noted that the jump from mere reference to real influence is a large one. At the level of reference, a true report of Irish song material over the last few centuries would declare that Helen and Venus are referenced much more often than Deirdre, who would be the most common native reference. Whether Deirdre counts as a reference to myth is another point of doubt. The jump from legendary material to mythological material is also a large one, even where some of the legends have "mythological undertones". I would be surprised if this research were to come up with any instances of direct and continued influence of mythology on Irish song. The few possibilities (and please note only possibilities) are a number of lullabies which contain repetitions of formulae seeking to protect the child from the Badhbh/Bodb or other mythological creature which might carry it away in the night. The composed and pseudo-learned reference to Aoibheall in the Gartan Mother's Lullaby is a calque on more genuine and authentic folk repetitions of this type of motif. One which survives and may possibly be genuine is in Habha ín mo leanbh which is easiest and most authentically sourced in recordings of Sorcha Ghuairim (Folkways one time, later re-issue by Cló Iar-Chonnachta; and, a separate issue from Gael Linn) . There are a few others of the same ilk. It is possible that a greater number have been "collected" in Scotland and Carmina Gadelica will provide many comparisons. Other than that area, I am afraid the influence is not of Celtic Mythology but of the mythology of Celtic mythology. The researcher should set her computer to quick-type neo-, pseudo- and quasi-. FF |
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20 Apr 04 - 05:10 AM (#1165851) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Wolfgang Tir na Nog is truly beautiful, but quite recent I'd say. Even more recent is 'Uncle Nobby's steamboat' (post in some old thread) using name droppings from Irish legends in a modern form. 'Coolin' (D. Behan?) might also be of interest. Wolfgang |
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20 Apr 04 - 05:10 AM (#1165852) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Kevin Sheils If you're happy to take contemporary workings, then Horslips based (at least) two CDs on this theme "The Tain" was the soundtrack for a stage version of the Cattle raid of Cooley and "The Book of Invasions" on various myths and legends of the Tuatha de Danaan. Modern compositions but with many traditional tunes and influences. |
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20 Apr 04 - 07:27 AM (#1165947) Subject: Lyr Add: WHITE SWANS From: GUEST White Swans (tune: In The Pines) chorus: White swans, white swans, children of Lir, Swimming upon the lough Play the tune, sing that song The true magic of the sidhe I walked by the Lake of the Oaks Strolling along the shore The music lilted in the morning air I looked and found four white swans chorus: The first swan cried and spoke to me: "We were cursed by my father's wife For nine hundred years we swim the seas Singing the songs of our father's land Singing the songs of the sidhe" Chorus: The second one wept and spoke to me: "Three hundred years spent on the lake of Oaks Three hundred on the stormy Straits Three hundred more in Inis Gluaire Before we can return home again" Chorus: The third swan grieved and sang to me: "Though the years may turn stones to dust We must wait wait for the newborn God Ringing his bell across the land Calling to carry us home" Chorus: The fourth swan mourned and called to me: The Children of Danu have left the land Forced by an invader's hand Their forts are gone, no more they'll sing Nevermore will their laughter ring Chorus: I walked away from the four white swans Weeping as I walked home Their lullaby lingered in the air The last song of the sidhe |
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20 Apr 04 - 08:16 AM (#1165983) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: GUEST,JTT The Scéalta Fíannaíocht and the Red Branch Cycle were spoken rather than sung; there are poems extant which are traditionally held to have been written by Fionn, Oisín and Oscar, like A hOisín, Ró-Fhad Do Shuain, but I've never heard them sung, and don't suppose there's music for them. |
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20 Apr 04 - 08:57 AM (#1166027) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Les from Hull Adding to what Kevin said, Horslips (Irish folk-rock abnd of the 70s) produced two whole albums, the Tain and Book of Invasions. All the songs on these are used to tell the story, and so are 'modern mysical tradition'. Not only that they are superb albums by a brilliant band, among my favourites of years. If your friend is interested, she can get hold of them here. horslips Les |
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20 Apr 04 - 09:28 AM (#1166058) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Big Mick Yeah, Wolfgang old friend, I did not mean to imply that it was an old song. Just that it covered the type of subject she was looking for. I am aware it is of quite recent vintage. Quite frankly, I wish there were more of these modern treatments of the old fables. It is such a rich source of great stories. If they could all be done as well as this, it would be great listening. Mick |
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20 Apr 04 - 09:32 AM (#1166066) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Big Mick By the way, have any of you worked out an arrangement of this? Mick |
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20 Apr 04 - 10:23 AM (#1166111) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Fear Faire As regards the "Fenian" poems mentioned by JTT, music does exist for a small number of the Laoithe Fiannaíochta/Fenian Lays. Again, more examples were collected in Scotland than in Ireland (it is the same material) but the few examples that were recorded are important in offering a glimpse of the type of music which probably accompanied the bardic metres before they were totally usurped by song metres by the 18th century. The work of Professor Breandán Ó Madagáin (now retired) is probably the most current in this area while perusal of periodicals such as Scottish Studies and Scottish Gaelic Studies will turn up many discussions and some staff notation of the Hebridean material. FF |
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20 Apr 04 - 01:57 PM (#1166331) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Amergin Oops it was me that posted that song up above... |
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20 Apr 04 - 04:15 PM (#1166427) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: GUEST Heather Alexander's Deirdre's Lament is a good song about Deidre. |
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20 Apr 04 - 04:21 PM (#1166431) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Macha Bonny swans by Lorena McKennitt. |
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20 Apr 04 - 05:05 PM (#1166469) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Malcolm Douglas Again, that relates to Scandinavian, not Irish, myth; though there is a chance that the swan in the refrain of that particular version is an Irish touch, swans being a popular motif there. The song was quite widespread in Scotland and England (and later in America) from at least the second half of the 17th century, but has only rarely been found in Ireland; though part of McKennitt's text is from a set noted by Frank Kidson from an Irishman in Liverpool around a century ago. McKennitt appears to have got the song from Roy Palmer's Everyman's Book of British Ballads, where the fragmentary 'Kidson' text is augmented from other sources, chiefly Scottish. Her arrangement follows exactly the same pattern, with the usual trivial changes in words and word-order. It's hard to be 100% sure, though, as she seems rarely to bother to acknowledge her sources. I think she made up her own tune. |
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20 Apr 04 - 06:39 PM (#1166568) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Macha Actully the project is Celtic legends on Celtic songs. |
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21 Apr 04 - 05:52 AM (#1166924) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Geoff the Duck I echo Les from Hull's comments about Horslips. One of the finest Rock/Folk bands ever, and Charles O'Connor, their fiddler/singer is such a nice bloke as well. I would recommend Horslips records as fine music whether you wnt the mythology connection or not. Quack! Geoff the Duck. |
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21 Apr 04 - 02:34 PM (#1167101) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Amergin just bumping this up.. |
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21 Apr 04 - 03:52 PM (#1167190) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Macha I would like to know where I can find the story behind The Bonny Swans and The Cruel Sister. |
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21 Apr 04 - 07:25 PM (#1167381) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: michaelr Macha -- both songs have been discussed here. Search the forum! |
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22 Apr 04 - 09:52 AM (#1167914) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Fiona I don't know if it's quite what you're looking for but on Malinkys 'Three Ravens' album there's a song called 'Thaney'. It's written by Karine Polwart and tells the dark tale of St Mungos mother Thanew, who's more commonly known as St Enoch. I had always thought St Enoch was St Mungos father, St Mungo is Glasgows patron saint and there are many tales about him but till I heard this song I'd never heard of the rape and banishment of his mother, well worth a listen. Karine Polwart is a fine storyteller as well as a wonderful singer. |
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22 Apr 04 - 01:56 PM (#1168201) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Geoff the Duck Back to Horslips - a couple of years back there was a thread requesting lyrics from The Tain. This was before Charles O'Connor had his own website. I recall that there were some Blickies to Fan-Sites containing lyrics. A quick forum search should unearth the information. Quack! GtD. |
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22 Apr 04 - 02:01 PM (#1168204) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: GUEST,MMario would an english lnaguage setting of Si Beg Si Mhor count? and Brian Leo's lyrics set to 'Brian Boru' as 'Brian the King'? |
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22 Apr 04 - 03:54 PM (#1168301) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Macha It would really help if there was an englaish setting of Si Beg Si Mhor. Thank you so much this really helps with my project. |
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22 Apr 04 - 04:00 PM (#1168305) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: GUEST Si Bheag Si Mhor/Fairy Hills |
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22 Apr 04 - 04:05 PM (#1168312) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Macha Thank you! |
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22 Apr 04 - 05:56 PM (#1168388) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Kathleen in Va. I think Mary McLaughlin's version of the Children of Lir is one of the nicest I've ever heard..sad and very much a lament. It has a chorus that goes: I am Finnoula, the Daughter of Lir Condemned to die for 900 years These are my brothers; all three are here A plaintive song falls on helpless ears Can't remember the name of the album she recorded it on as a solo. I heard it when she was travelling with Anne Lister as Anonyma. I still get a chill thinking about that legend, one of my very favorite Irish stories. |
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23 Apr 04 - 01:01 PM (#1169122) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Macha The songs I need can be influenced by themes (the plot), Values (what makes a good person and such) and symbols (example: harp, spear, sword and such). |
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23 Apr 04 - 03:53 PM (#1169287) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Ossian Solas. They did a song about a mythological person. Sorry I can't remember the title. |
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23 Apr 04 - 04:22 PM (#1169316) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: GUEST,Maryrrf Are you interested in recently composed songs dealing with Irish Mythology? I have a friend who has written several. |
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23 Apr 04 - 04:58 PM (#1169370) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Macha Yeah, that would be really nice. |
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24 Apr 04 - 09:13 PM (#1170099) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Maryrrf Is it lyrics you're looking for, or the songs on CD? |
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26 Apr 04 - 03:08 PM (#1171534) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: GUEST,amergin if you wish to use that song I poste above...you may...if not that's ok... |
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26 Apr 04 - 03:58 PM (#1171573) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Macha Which song? |
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26 Apr 04 - 04:12 PM (#1171581) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: GUEST Have you tried going to the offical web site of any celtic singers? Sometimes they have their lyrics listed. |
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26 Apr 04 - 04:48 PM (#1171623) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: GUEST,amergin White Swans that one ;) |
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26 Apr 04 - 07:02 PM (#1171736) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Macha Thank you so much I will use it. |
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27 Apr 04 - 09:58 AM (#1172242) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: GUEST,Brian There is a nice song composed by Padraigin Ni Uallachain calledTHE WILLOW TREE. I have the words but not with me right now. Brian |
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27 Apr 04 - 04:12 PM (#1172603) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Macha Any songs on the Selkie Legends would be most helpful. |
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28 Apr 04 - 02:11 AM (#1172941) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Amergin There is a song called the Selkie Queen |
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28 Apr 04 - 11:52 AM (#1173216) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Macha Thank you so much. |
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04 May 04 - 12:08 PM (#1177471) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: GUEST,amergin Coo...I was just wondering how the project is coming? |
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06 May 04 - 04:06 PM (#1179643) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Macha I am done with the rough draft and waiting to get it back. |
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06 May 04 - 05:01 PM (#1179707) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: nickr90 May be a little off subject but Tom williams wrote a song about a famous Wexford Hurler - Nicky Rackard entitled Cu Chulain's Son comparing him to the legendary figure myth coming into modern time |
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11 May 04 - 03:50 PM (#1183142) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Macha cool. I need some songs that are somewhat influenced by the legend of Osian. |
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11 May 04 - 04:15 PM (#1183163) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Nerd There was a band called Oisin, and I think they did do a song based on Irish mythology on one of their albums. I don't remember if it's the same piece referred to above by Pat Kilbride but it may be. |
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21 May 04 - 03:36 PM (#1190989) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Macha Thank you all so much. I was able to write my report and hopefully will get a good grade. |
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24 May 04 - 01:15 AM (#1192416) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Amergin Oh cool beans...good luck! and let us know how it turns out! |
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25 May 04 - 03:58 PM (#1193880) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Macha ok I will be sure to tell you how it all turned out. |
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22 Sep 04 - 06:51 PM (#1278678) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Macha I got and A on my paper and a B on my presention. Yeah! |
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23 Sep 04 - 09:17 AM (#1279065) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Wolfgang Thanks for telling, good to read that. You can keep the A and hand us over the B for providing Backup information. Wolfgang |
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21 Oct 04 - 12:09 PM (#1302996) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Amergin I just saw this. That is great news! Good Job! |
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21 Oct 04 - 02:06 PM (#1303086) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: ard mhacha Further up the Thread I referred to The Red Branch Knights, mentioned in Thomas Moore`s "Let Erin remember", he also refers to in the second verse, "On Lough Neagh`s banks as the fisherman strays in the clear cool eve declining, He see the Round Towers of other days in the waves beneath them shining". As a child, I had many a swim in Lough Neagh and was always disappointed on not seeing those fabled Towers. |
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21 Oct 04 - 02:11 PM (#1303089) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Sorcha Isn't thre one about Deidre and Nesi? Deidre's Lament or something? |
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21 Oct 04 - 02:13 PM (#1303093) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Sorcha Never mind, I didn't read all the way thru. |
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07 Feb 05 - 11:31 PM (#1402174) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Macha I got an A on my paper! And a B on my presentation! |
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08 Feb 05 - 12:32 AM (#1402200) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: GUEST,harperlass Yay! :) It was a very cool presentation. Thanks for inviting me. :) Molly |
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14 Feb 05 - 09:28 AM (#1409216) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish myth in folksongs From: Macha I did cite this site and everyone who helped. |