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20 Apr 04 - 10:53 AM (#1166138) Subject: Tech: Next Gen DVDs & Blu-Ray From: Stilly River Sage Rather than let these things creep up on us, I'm interested in learning what some of you think about the next generation of recording and playback media. This is part of an article in today's Washington Post (it's an AP story, so you can probably find it elsewhere if you don't want to go through the free registration process to read the rest of the story). DVD War Looms As Advancements Get CloserNEW YORK -- The DVD stands out as one of the most rapidly adopted consumer technologies ever, but in the electronics industry it's akin to an aging king in Shakespearean drama - rivals are lurking, knives drawn. Just as consumers are beginning to get comfortable with their DVD players, electronics manufacturers are set to introduce next-generation discs that store more - and would be harder to copy. A dozen companies, headed by Sony Corp., are pushing a disc called the Blu-ray. The other main contender, the High Definition DVD, is promoted only by Toshiba Corp. and NEC Corp. But it has an important endorsement from an industry group and is also expected to get Microsoft Corp.'s support as the software giant seeks a toehold for its multimedia format in the consumer electronics arena. Movie studios generally aren't commenting on the new formats. And the rival industry groups aren't saying exactly when they expect to have players on the market. Both, however, consider the DVD ripe for replacement next year. For consumers, the benefit of a new format would be better image quality. Sales of high-definition TV sets have finally started to take off, but current DVDs don't have the resolution to get the most out of HDTV sets. For the industry, a new format could mean an escape from the low-margin market DVD players have become. From costing more than $500 when introduced in 1997, players are now available for less than $50. The new discs, which look much like DVDs, would be read by players with newly developed blue lasers, which can pick out finer detail than the red lasers used to play DVDs and CDs. This lets the new discs store three to five times as much data as a DVD, enough for high-definition movies with surround sound. Manufacturers from both groups plan to also build red lasers into their new players, allowing them to read current DVDs. The Blu-ray disc has the most storage capacity, up to 50 gigabytes. However, it achieves that capacity by using a structure quite different from DVDs. This means that the companies that make prerecorded DVDs would have to invest in new equipment, which is sure to give Hollywood pause as it ponders which format to back. Visit that link above for the rest of this story. This will certainly effect the value and availability of the stuff we use now. VHS may be a dinosaur, but it is a very convenient dinosaur when you want to save something. I haven't explored recording DVDs, but I have a DVR and when I record something to watch later, if I want to keep it, I pop in a VCR tape. Is the modern equivalent of tapt tape the DVD (or DVR?) disk? How much space do they have, is editing easy as you record them, etc? New equipment is going to push several other markets along further--HD tv in particular. Too expensive for me to consider or get worked up about now, but something to keep in mind, nonetheless. How will all of this effect the recordings Mudcatters make? We use CDs a lot, but will we soon be using (or are we now) recording onto audio DVDs, or is that overkill? Is there such a thing? SRS |
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20 Apr 04 - 11:03 AM (#1166154) Subject: RE: Tech: Next Gen DVDs & Blu-Ray From: The Fooles Troupe With Audio DVD, you could probably fit all of Dylan's good stuff onto a single disk. Yeah. Robin |
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20 Apr 04 - 11:25 AM (#1166178) Subject: RE: Tech: Next Gen DVDs & Blu-Ray From: Clinton Hammond I wanna get TOS on DVD long before I get TNG... :-) |
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20 Apr 04 - 08:33 PM (#1166669) Subject: RE: Tech: Next Gen DVDs & Blu-Ray From: JohnInKansas "The DVD stands out as one of the most rapidly adopted consumer technologies ever, but in the electronics industry it's akin to an aging king in Shakespearean drama - rivals are lurking, knives drawn." Two points: It's a consumer technology, so the only significant consideration is how those who are able to "drive" it can maximize their profit. It was the most rapidly adopted because the producers simply quit making/distributing the alternatives. (Can you pronounce "monopoly?") This will go wherever "they" decide they want it to go, and there's little that we small folk will be able to do about it. As a "data storage medium," and ignoring all the movies and audio and such, existing DVDs are, IMHO, "not useful." You can put a lot of stuff on one, but retrieval is slow and uncertain. You can't put a label on one, and the "hub" where you can mark them isn't even "marker friendly." They're so prone to physical damage (a water spot can make the entire disk unreadable) that putting data on one is like printing something and then running the print through a shredder to "make it more compact." Sure, you can keep it - but... Bottom line: I don't think the current DVD technology is stable enough to be too useful except as a marketing/distribution medium for "entertainment." I can't see the "new" DVD format(s) being any different - within the next several years. But they will extract $ M $ O $ N $ E $ Y $ from the "consumers." John |
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21 Apr 04 - 06:04 AM (#1166932) Subject: RE: Tech: Next Gen DVDs & Blu-Ray From: s6k i dont think the Blu-Ray disc will hold 50gb of information. that is a little jumping ahead of the gun a bit. I first read about Blu Ray discs 2 years ago and have been waiting to see them. That article that i read stated that the discs would hold 26gb of data. This in itself is a ridiculously large amount of data.. i could back up almost my entire computer system drive on one disc. As for the VHS / DVD thing. i dont think the vhs has become a dinosaur. They are still more common than the DVD player in fact, and most people that have a DVD player also have a VHS. Of course, like music cassettes, the VHS will be stopped in production, but i dont think this will be for a while. a blank VHS is cheap and you can just stick it in and record something you might want to keep, and have a copy of it forever. i have done this with many music shows on television in the past. You can record onto DVDs now, there is a DVD-Recorder that works exactly the same as a VHS recorder. You put the disc in and you can videoplus programmes etc. these discs hold 3 hours, the same as a VHS, however the quality will be significantly better, and you get a main menu when loading the disc which allows you to name each programme you have recorded and then select them, like a chapter selection. I dont know if they have got ReWritable recordable discs yet, but the Recorders themselves are about £300 at the present. They will soon come down without a doubt, and obviously will be more convenient and save space to store discs than a load of VHS. However i wont give up on VHS as it is very simple to use |
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21 Apr 04 - 09:09 AM (#1167050) Subject: RE: Tech: Next Gen DVDs & Blu-Ray From: JohnInKansas s6k - I don't know what the situation is in your end of the world, but in mine it is already nearly impossible to buy a new VHS machine. You have to look around a bit even to find the "combo" DVD/VHS players. In addition, most of the discount outlets have already stopped stocking movies on VHS, and many of the "video rental" places have begun switching to DVD only. The only things available as new VHS tapes are "kid shows" (lots of old Disney) and old stuff (want all of John Wayne's "B" movies?) that's been laying around in the warehouse and that they are now dumping. The clear intent here is to have NO video distribution on VHS in the "supply channels" as soon as they can clear existing stocks. I agree that for movies and similar stuff, VHS is a perfectly good medium, but "they" intend to make it go away as soon as possible. DVD is also great, but the pricing of new DVD movies (or DVD replacements for old VHS ones) is "predatory." (The most generous term I can think of to apply.) Although you can burn DVDs now, I'll have to restate my own opinion that in their present state of development they're virtually worthless - in most usages - for computer data storage. John |
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21 Apr 04 - 09:41 AM (#1167087) Subject: RE: Tech: Next Gen DVDs & Blu-Ray From: s6k thats interesting, im over in england and VHS is still common. a player can be picked up for about £40 which is roughly $55 - 60 in your money i think. however there are still the top of the range ones available and lots of videos to choose from as well as dvds. in my local Apollo video rental shop, there is one shelf of DVDs and the entire rest of the shop is VHS. mind you thats a bit rubbish our local one, the best is probably blockbuster but even they have more vhs than dvd. I dunno, maybe america are moving with the times faster than us. its a shame, because vhs are getting cheaper and cheaper to buy, and sometimes i like to buy a film but maybe not enough to buy it on dvd... we will have to see how vhs is doing as we approach christmas, etc |
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21 Apr 04 - 03:38 PM (#1167174) Subject: RE: Tech: Next Gen DVDs & Blu-Ray From: Clinton Hammond "I agree that for movies and similar stuff, VHS is a perfectly good medium" Unless you're concerned with picture and audio quality.... I find VHS almost painfull to watch since I've gone DVD.... I seem to recall my local Blockbuster connections talking aBbout VHS being totally phased out in 2 to 5 years... and that they seemed to think it'd be closer to 2 than 5... |
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21 Apr 04 - 03:43 PM (#1167179) Subject: RE: Tech: Next Gen DVDs & Blu-Ray From: dick greenhaus Robin, Some of us feel that you could store all of Dylan's good stuff on a 5-1/4" floppy disk. |
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21 Apr 04 - 03:59 PM (#1167202) Subject: RE: Tech: Next Gen DVDs & Blu-Ray From: s6k thhats just wrong! |
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21 Apr 04 - 04:53 PM (#1167246) Subject: RE: Tech: Next Gen DVDs & Blu-Ray From: Stilly River Sage I said VHS was a dinosaur, but I didn't say I'd stopped using it. Two years ago I picked up a couple of inexpensive VCRs when I was doing the A/V portions of a couple of rooms, and I wish I'd bought higher-end models, because when I look in the stores now I can only find the cheap ones. Or the $500 ones. The cheap ones are kind of noisy, not as good or with as many features. I had a great one but the kids did a number on it. I have it in the garage with the idea that one day I'll take it apart and see if there is a belt or gear I can replace. . . I need to go over to Target. They are pretty good about having a range of electronics, including some of the ones you thought had gone by the wayside. Tapes are cheap, and considering the way I watch tv, the quality is fine. I usually don't sit still and just study and listen to a program, I treat it more like radio as I work in the room or nearby, where I can hear it, and glance over occasionally to see what the speakers on the screen look like. Blockbuster has been wrong many times before. I wouldn't open the piggy bank ready to invest in what they say the next big thing is. They're struggling to stay in existence right now. SRS |
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21 Apr 04 - 04:58 PM (#1167250) Subject: RE: Tech: Next Gen DVDs & Blu-Ray From: Clinton Hammond " They're struggling to stay in existence right now. " Not around here they're not.... And I never said I base ANYHTING on what Blockbuster does... I'm just saying that likely in 2 or more years you won't be able to get VHS @ Blockbuster at all... |
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21 Apr 04 - 06:39 PM (#1167335) Subject: RE: Tech: Next Gen DVDs & Blu-Ray From: JohnInKansas Blockbuster has already announced, here, that they are going to "DVD ONLY." While you can still get VHS, when they wear out they're gone, and a popular one doesn't last very long. The "discount" retailers here are dumping so many B to D grade VHS tapes, that they've started pouring them into bins in the middle of the floor so that you have to "dig" to see if there's anything worthwhile there. (There usually isn't). Since the bins are outside the "electronics" department where they could watch them, they also put "theft detectors" in/on the package, which your friendly cashier will DEMAGNETIZE, sometimes very thoroughly, for you when you pay up. Odds on whether the tape is playable when you get it home????? There's no argument that DVDs do give you a cleaner picture, and better sound. The only question is whether it's really necessary all the time. The US "marketing mentality" believes that if any new product gets to more than 5 percent of the (sales) market, everybody must sell that product (and that product only.) DVDs have probably passed the 5% point for new sales. ALL (older) "competing technologies" will be "unavailable" to consumers in the US within no more than two years (my estimate), simply because no retailer here will stock them - then something newer will come along for them to jump onto. John |
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24 Feb 08 - 01:10 PM (#2271068) Subject: RE: Tech: Next Gen DVDs & Blu-Ray From: Q (Frank Staplin) Now that some operas, plays and music performances are available on Blu-ray DVD discs, the time is approaching when I should add a Blu-ray disc player to my system. The trigger is "A Midsummer Night's Dream," the production on Opus Art-BBC of the Balanchine ballet set to the music of Mendelssohn, performed by the Pacific Northwest Ballet. Other recent issues include baroque opera. Question- Will it work with my TV? (computer and elecronics ignoramus). I have just the ordinary DVD and VHS combined player hooked to it at present. Your advice and recommendations would be appreciated. Our local cable service offers HD but I don't particularly want their HD PVR box, which is rather expensive, and there are more good non-HD movies around than I will be able to watch in several lifetimes. My interest is almost solely in the productions of the kind named above. A Blu-ray disc player by Samsung is offered here for $399 after rebate. I haven't looked at prices and offerings yet. |
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24 Feb 08 - 01:43 PM (#2271098) Subject: RE: Tech: Next Gen DVDs & Blu-Ray From: JohnInKansas One recent opinion, with which you may disagree, is at Ready to buy Blu-ray? Better hit pause button. The article doesn't make a really "hard case" for delaying a purchase, if you have a real need for high def DVDs; but does outline some of the "unsettled issues" that you might want to consider, and touches some of the things that affect what kind of picture you'll get with different sorts of TV sets. John |
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24 Feb 08 - 08:55 PM (#2271470) Subject: RE: Tech: Next Gen DVDs & Blu-Ray From: Q (Frank Staplin) After further checking, I think the opinion in the article is good. The ballet DVD, I have found, is put out in DVD, HD-DVD, as well as Blu-ray. The advertizing blurb I had from Opus Arte only mentioned the Blu-ray edition, but their catalogue has the options. The local cable company has a passel of HD channels, as well as movies on demand, and are pushing their HD box and services. Not much that I really want is there. I will wait until my present standard (but OK to me) TV blows a piston or whatever, and new stuff is actually needed, then I will think about it again. John in Kansas, thanks for the link. |
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24 Feb 08 - 10:12 PM (#2271539) Subject: RE: Tech: Next Gen DVDs & Blu-Ray From: JohnInKansas The whole situation has me thoroughly confused, but then I'm not really that much into TV or DVD. It's not clear from the article what the "upgradeability" issue really means, as nobody has talked about "patches" for DVD; but it was made clear that most older/current BluRay lack an internet port - and for some reason that's important(?). For "upgrades" to be significant, there must be some expectation of changes(?). Price shakeout, although not immediately on the horizon, should be expected, so patience to wait for lower prices might be worth thinking about, especially when other issues may become a little more firm by the time prices come down. Digital TV is still one thing looming for us in the US, but that's not quite the same thing as High Definition TV. High definition TV is something else entirely, that you can "buy into" now, but that may change as soon as you get your equipment. Tube/screen-cleaner is reportedly available, but I've preferred not to venture into using it, as the cat-spit, bug tracks, and smoke from the occasional kitchen pyrotechnic outburst somewhat conceal the snow and fuzz from my current coathanger antenna on my vintage analog TV. My main TV question is whether I'll have to wash the screen to see any change when we all go digital, or whether I'll wish I had the fuzz back if I do get energetic enough to wipe it down. John |
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24 Feb 08 - 10:32 PM (#2271545) Subject: RE: Tech: Next Gen DVDs & Blu-Ray From: Rowan For what it's worth, I recall hearing on the radio (in Oz, last week) that Toshiba had announced they're dropping the HD-DVD format, leaving the field of 'high definition digital video disc' formats entirely to Sony's BluRay. Cheers, Rowan |