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18 Oct 98 - 05:41 AM (#42181) Subject: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Ewan McV On searching the database with happy confidence for chapter and verse for
She'll be coming round the mountain
I was startled only to find Talk about Celtic bias!
Can anyone help with |
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18 Oct 98 - 08:07 AM (#42190) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Barbara I don't know if there's much information there, Ewan, but the song itself is called "Coming 'Round the Mountain", and it's in the database. See that dinky little apostrophe in front of 'round'? I bet that's why your search didn't find it. Computers are finicky that way. I used [red rooster] and it came right up. Along with Dick's rule about avoiding proper names (because if you don't misspell them, the person who submitted the tune probably will have), I also avoid words that could be abbreviated. Words like old (ol'; ole) and anything ending in 'ing'. Hope that helps. Blessings, Barbara |
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18 Oct 98 - 09:40 AM (#42195) Subject: Lyr Add: SHE'LL BE COMING 'ROUND THE MOUNTAIN From: snookums The version I am used to hearing is slightly different and likely is more about a female visitor: 1. She'll be coming 'round the mountain when she comes. 2. She'll be driving 6 white horses when she comes. 3. Oh we'll all go to meet her when she comes.
4. Oh we'll kill the old red rooster when she comes 5. We'll have chicken and dumplings when she comes. |
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19 Oct 98 - 05:50 AM (#42334) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Ewan McV Barbara & Snookums Many thanks for lyrics and tips. Best regards Ewan |
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19 Oct 98 - 07:58 PM (#42437) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Art Thieme How would I know which mountain? Coul be Pike's Peak! Could be the Matterhorn! Could be Everest! Could be,,, |
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19 Oct 98 - 09:00 PM (#42448) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca It must be a mountain by the sea, or next to a plain. Otherwise, it would not be necessary to refer to the route of travel of the Mysterious "She" whose arrival is so anxiously anticipated. Therefore, it must be a mountain in Alberta or Cape Breton Island, and She is arriving via a mountain pass rather than taking the route across the plain or by landing by ship. One suspects that the She is a Sinister She, or even a Deceased She, since outside of aristocratic lands hearses were normally the only conveyance drawn by six white horses. Perhaps they are planning for the funeral or the wake of She, somewhere in Alberta or Cape Breton Island.:) |
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20 Oct 98 - 03:37 AM (#42479) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Ewan McV On the basis that all songs start off somewhere, somebody might well know what route she first traversed. Lots of songs began localised, and lots more began without a locality involved, then one was added. I had not thought about the possibility of this being a supernatural arrival, perhaps a revenant. However, that would explain why instead of killing a plump hen to feed her, the king of the bunch, beloved of voodoo ritual, is being sacrificed to her! Interesting. |
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20 Oct 98 - 05:32 AM (#42489) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Ewan McV Art I thought I should explain myself a little more. Often a song is made with an initial localising or personality naming verse. The song gets popular, and the first thing to get dropped is the initial overspecific verse. It is not impossible that this happened with Coming Round The Mountain. If so, someone might have noted the original in an old [or new] publication. For example, a 1963 book explained for me the other day the context of a Scots kids' song I've known and used for 40 years, and at the same time linked the song to one that the New Lost City Ramblers recorded, so the song has a far wider context than I'd ever realised. One the other hand, you may know this sort of thing well, and be complaining about the nature of my thread heading? Just a way of asking a question in, I thought, an interesting way. |
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20 Oct 98 - 05:34 AM (#42490) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Ewan McV I should have said above that it was the appearance in the 1963 book of a new 'first' verse preceding those widely known and recorded for the song that gave the explanation and link. |
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20 Oct 98 - 09:39 AM (#42518) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Bert I don't know which mountain but I'll agree that Pike's Peak is a good candidate. 'She' would have had to 'come around' Pikes Peak to get to Cripple Creek during the gold rush. From the plains at Colorado Springs up through Ute Pass or along Gold Camp road. Doug of Colorado! come in here and confirm this. Bert |
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20 Oct 98 - 08:11 PM (#42588) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Alix I would strongly suspect Mountain Dew. Look, she's driving 6 white horses- obviously her license has been revoked for too many OWI's. She's wearing pink pajamas and huffing and puffing. I'd suggest she bypass the mountain all together and head straight for the Betty Ford Clinic. Snookums (no- not alix, no matter what my cookie has to say about it) |
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20 Oct 98 - 09:31 PM (#42595) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Art Thieme Oh,.......Now I understand! Fun speculation. Close, but no cigar.('Tweren't Monica drivin' them horses.) |
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20 Oct 98 - 10:16 PM (#42600) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: dulcimer I heard the song is about MA Jones going to promote union organization in the coal mining camps in the Appalachians. I think she also organized in cities. At first the railroads, who also owned the mines or vise versa, let her ride, often for free she because she was an old lady. But when she became so popular, they refused her passage. So she had to sometimes find other means--horses--to get into the camps--must have been some travel on those mountain roads. Taking a more interpretative view of the song. White horses for much of our mythology have been the mode of travels for heros or heroines. And in rural poor American, a chicken dinner was often a luxury, reserved for Sunday, especially if the preacher or some other important person were coming. A chicken may have been the best meat available and such a dinner would have been a sign of respect. I hope someone else can either add to or correct this brief reply. |
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21 Oct 98 - 07:46 PM (#42723) Subject: Lyr Add: WHEN THE CHARIOT COMES From: Joe Offer In American Songbag (1927), Carl Sandburg says: an old-time Negro spiritual, "When the Chariot Comes," was made by mountaineers into "She'll Be Comin' Round the Mountain," and the song spread to railroad work gangs in the Midwest U.S. in the 1890's.Gee, and I thought it was just a silly children's song... -Joe Offer-
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22 Oct 98 - 05:58 PM (#42838) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Ewan McV Two brilliant pieces of material! Thanks indeed, Dulcimer and Joe. I think I need to add both accounts to the tale of Canny Shove Yer Granny in a book Im at work, with the tentative title of: Why Is It All Right To Shove Your Other Granny? Dulcimer - what copyright credit / acknowledgement do you want, if I do? (I don't think I can stretch to an actual cash payment, however.)Or, can you quote me a source re your account of MA Jones? Mail me direct at 101771.427@compuserve.com if you like. |
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23 Oct 98 - 03:17 PM (#42979) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: dick greenhaus Folklore is something like what Mark Twain said about science: (to paraphrase) I love it. You can reap such a huge harvest of speculation from such a tiny bit of fact. |
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23 Oct 98 - 04:12 PM (#42985) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Bert Dick, That's what makes it so much fun. Now, whenever I sing it, I can swear that the "Mountain" is really Pike's Peak. Bert. |
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23 Oct 98 - 10:20 PM (#43022) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Barry Finn Joe, would this the relation of "Roll The Old Chariot Along", looks like it might be. Barry |
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24 Oct 98 - 02:32 AM (#43036) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Joe Offer Barry, the first I hear of the relation between "Chariot" and "Comin' Round the Mountain" was when I read that passage I posted from Sandburg's American Songbag. I guess it boils down to whether you believe Carl Sandburg or Dick Greenhaus.... So, Dick, did I twist your words bad enough??? -Joe Offer- |
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24 Oct 98 - 03:29 AM (#43042) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Snookums I still buy the theory that it was Grandma coming to visit and she was sauced. Snookums |
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26 Oct 98 - 10:07 PM (#43318) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Philip Hudson My grandmothers both told me that "she" was the new "school marm" and the mountain was in Appalachia and the "six white horses" were symbolic of the high esteem in which teachers were held. The red rooster and the chicken and dumplins were literal. I'm sold on this one. But the other ones can be true to. After all, it is a folk song. - Philip Hudson |
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08 Feb 02 - 11:39 PM (#645785) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: katlaughing I watched a small portion of the opening cermonies of the Olympics, tonight. At one point they sang this song and the commentator said it was an old railroad song. I had never heard that, so I went looking on the Mudcat. Sure enough I found my answer and found I was right in thinking it had been around before the railroads. Thanks, Mudcatters! kat |
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08 Feb 02 - 11:43 PM (#645788) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: catspaw49 Well kat, on the plus side they did at least sing Stephen Foster's "Hard Times." They could have dispensed with that pissant Robbie Robertson though during the Native American segment. Now though, since it was pronounced by Bob Costas on NBC this now MUST be an old railroad song.........cracked me up. The best part was the Olympic flag being carried by one helluva' group of admirable people. Spaw |
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09 Feb 02 - 12:21 AM (#645807) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) "When the Chariot Comes" came into print in 1899 according to the Traditional Song Index (cufresno); one authority quoted there (Fuld)says he knows of no printing of "She'll be Coming Round the Mountain" before Sandburg in 1927. The song was sung by children in my primary school in the 1930s and certainly was known to my grandparents, who probably never heard of Sandburg. Joe Offer's speculation is one I can agree with, until more evidence is found. |
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09 Feb 02 - 12:26 AM (#645814) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: DougR I see no controversy here at all. The mountain is obviously Camelback Mountain in Scottsdale, Arizona. But it's on the border of Phoenix and Scottsdale, so ... DougR |
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09 Feb 02 - 12:58 AM (#645825) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) I always thought it was the Sierry Petes |
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09 Feb 02 - 01:01 AM (#645826) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) A good old 78 by H. M. Barnes and his Blue Ridge Ramblers is on honkingduck.com. Brunswick 310. Hawaiian steel guitar in the background. Date? |
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09 Feb 02 - 01:03 AM (#645827) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Lyrical Lady Why is Robbie Robertson a pissant?....just curious. I have never heard of him before ...although I thoughly enjoyed that segment. LL |
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09 Feb 02 - 01:18 AM (#645831) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: katlaughing I didn't see most of it, Spaw, but I would have preferred if we'd heard a LOT more of the Native American drums and chants than the performers on stage, even though I really like Walela. The whole thing struck me as just one big, over-commercialised American history extravaganza which had nothing to do with sports. I was also appalled that they used Hard Times! I LOVE the song, but it didn't seem appropriate for what should be a time of upbeat fun. Bah, humbug...I hate what they've made of the Olympics.:-) katkurmudgeon |
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09 Feb 02 - 01:20 AM (#645832) Subject: Lyr Add: WHEN THE CHARIOT COMES From: masato sakurai The first known printing of "When the Chariot Comes" had appeared in Barton's New England Magazine article (Feb. 1899), before it was incorporated into his Old Plantation Hymns (1899). The article is reprinted in Bernard Katz, ed., The Social Implications of Early Negro Music (Arno/The New York Times, 1969; the song is on p. 117, with music). Substantially a related tune.
WHEN THE CHARIOT COMES
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6. ~Masato
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09 Feb 02 - 01:42 AM (#645837) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Kat, I thought "Hard Times" went well with the western theme. The song was carried west with the pioneers, and was a special favorite with the Mormons. Did you notice the hand cart? Thousands went west pushing a handcart, mostly Mormons, many fresh from Europe, althouth we always think of the covered wagon. "She'll be Coming...", on the other hand does not go back to pioneer days, so that would be anachronistic. Times are a-changing. The music played onstage is now heard regularly at the Indian get-to-gathers. Buffy St. Marie was one of those who started this. I, too, prefer the old plains drumming and singing, but that has become homogenized- tribal distinctions have been lost. The same is true of the costumes which no longer can be called tribal regalia. |
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09 Feb 02 - 01:44 AM (#645839) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Lyrical Lady Kat...did you not catch the very end when they portrayed the different stages of a figure skater that eventually ended up at the Olympics and won her metal? Several skaters portrayed the different ages and levels of skill. I thought the story line from the beginning depicting the different animals of the land, then the First Nations People, the Pioneers and finally the society of today, was brilliant. I tend to look at these things from a behind the scenes point of view...the costumes, production and timing of the whole event was wonderful. IMO. LL |
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09 Feb 02 - 01:57 AM (#645840) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Lyrical Lady Was not the tribal distinction shown when each of the five Utah Nations delivered their blessings to the altheletes in their own tongue, and dressed in their own ceremonial clothing? Am I confused here ... ? Where I come from the native dress of the many tribes are quite different from each other and are very authentic. LL |
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09 Feb 02 - 05:11 AM (#645879) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Hrothgar When she started out, she was coming 'round the molehill... |
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09 Feb 02 - 01:37 PM (#646072) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Compare the "native" clothing worn in the ceremony with the native clothing of the same groups in museum collections, old photographs and drawings from pre-1900; then with similar materials from the 1900-1930 period, then with the way the Indians were dressed for the ceremony. The homogenation is evident. This is not to say that some Indians do not strive to maintain tribal characteristics. Nor can it be said that there was no commerce among the tribes; there was a lot that has been documented for the pre-Columbian as well as later periods. Some groups had "rendezvous" like the one portrayed for the pioneers; I am only familiar with the San Fernando Festival held at Taos Pueblo on Sept. 30 (opened to others about 1880?). I have a collection of old photographs taken by photographers (my grandmother was one) between 1900-1905 of people at the Festival, at which members of various Plains tribes, from as far away as Montana, among others, attended. Beadwork and dress seen in these photos and others still has distinctive patterns (but, of course, the Pendleton blanket was already very popular among all the groups). |
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09 Feb 02 - 05:19 PM (#646165) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: GUEST,SAEBAA THERE ARE LYRICS TO 3-4 SONGS I NEED. CLEMENTINE, SHE WILL BE COMING AROUND THE MOUNTAIN-IF SHE COMES, SUGAR IN THE MORINING-SUGAR IN THE EVENING-SUGAR AT SUPPERTIME THANKS FOR ANY HELP |
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09 Feb 02 - 06:22 PM (#646189) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Stewie Dicho, you asked for the date of the H.M. Barnes' Blue Ridge Ramblers recording. It was recorded in New York City on 28 January 1929 when the band cut 9 sides. Its only other recording session was the following day when it cut a further 5 sides. H.M. 'Hank' Barnes led the string band that toured the vaudeville circuit. Barnes was not himself a musician, but gave his name to the group and booked them. --Stewie. |
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09 Feb 02 - 08:27 PM (#646262) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Thanks, Stewie. I was guessing about 1930, but I wasn't sure. Saebaa, there are several versions of Clementine in the DT. Just type Clementine in the blank under Digitrad and Forum Search. When you get that one, type She'll be comin', or Comin' 'round the mountain, in the same space. I couldn't find Sugar... , but it ought to be there? |
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09 Feb 02 - 08:56 PM (#646272) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: catspaw49 Not on the forum or in the DT... SUGARTIME Sugar in the morning Sugar in the evening Sugar at suppertime Be my little sugar And love me all the time Honey in the morning Honey in the evening Honey at suppertime So by my little honey And love me all the time Put your arms around me And swear by stars above You'll be mine forever In a heaven of love Sugar in the morning Sugar in the evening Sugar at suppertime Be my little sugar And love me all the time Now Sugartime Is anytime That you're near 'Cause you're so dear So don't you roam Just be my honeycomb And live In a heaven of love. Sugar in the morning Sugar in the evening Sugar at suppertime Be my little sugar And love me all the time |
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09 Feb 02 - 09:21 PM (#646281) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: masato sakurai SAEBAA,
"Sugar in the morning" you're asking for, I believe, is "Sugartime," sung by the the McGuire Sisters in 1950s. Their singing and lyrics are HERE. ~Masato
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10 Feb 02 - 10:50 AM (#646509) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Susan of DT A searching tip about missin' final "g"s---comin* will get you both spellings. |
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06 Oct 02 - 11:01 PM (#798070) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: masato sakurai Ernest Phipps' OLD SHIP OF ZION (from The Roots Music Listening Room) is a variant of "When the Chariot Comes." Country Music Resources says that "She'll Be Coming Around the Mountain" was "Adapted from 'Old Ship Of Zion', comp. 1876, or 'When the Chariot Comes', comp. 1899." (p. 535) ~Masato |
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07 Oct 02 - 12:52 AM (#798102) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: GUEST,.gargoyle The Long Steel Rail, The Railroad in American Folksong Norm Cohen, University of Illinois Press, Chicago, 1981, p.40-41.
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07 Oct 02 - 07:18 AM (#798195) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Mr Red Not wishing to muddy the 'cats water but with with words like coming and mountain I favour the view that there is not a little hint of irony here. IMOHO |
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25 Jan 03 - 02:39 AM (#874444) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: GUEST,jimmy mac I can clear up the controversy. The song was written about cooke city montana at the ne entrance of yellowstone park and the six white horses were the old coach horses of yellowstone ! |
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27 Oct 03 - 04:20 PM (#1042794) Subject: Add: Going Back With Jesus (origin Coming Rnd/Mtn? From: wysiwyg On Rounder CD1137, available from CAMSCO: A Warrior on the Battlefield a capella Trail Blazers: 1920'2 - 1940's [Black "Barbershop" Quartets] Tune is a bluesy variant of the tune used for Coming Round the Mountain. Origin? Chicken or egg? ~S~ ======================================================== GOING BACK WITH JESUS As recorded by Heavenly Gospel Singers Charlotte, Feb 16, 1937 Yes, I'm going back with Jesus when He comes (Lord when He comes) Yes, I'm going back with Jesus when He comes (my Lord) I'll be standing at the station with my ticket in my hand Oh, I'm going back with Jesus when He comes (Lord when He comes). Oh yes, I'm going back with Jesus when He comes (Lord when He comes) Oh yes, I'm going back with Jesus when He comes (my Lord) I'll be standing at the station with my ticket in my hand Oh, I'm going back with Jesus when He comes (Lord when He comes). I'll be on my knees a-praying when He comes (Lord when He comes) I'll be on my knees a-praying when He comes (my Lord) I'll be standing at the station with my ticket in my hand Oh, I'm going back with Jesus when He comes (Lord when He comes). I'll be singing Hallelujah when He comes (Lord when He comes) I'll be singing Hallelujah when He comes (my Lord) I'll be standing at the station with my ticket in my hand Oh, I'm going back with Jesus when He comes (Lord when He comes). Oh yes, I'm going back with Jesus when He comes (Lord when He comes) Oh yes, I'm going back with Jesus when He comes (my Lord) I'll be standing at the station with my ticket in my hand Oh, I'm going back with Jesus when He comes (Lord when He comes I'll be waiting for King Jesus when He comes (Lord when He comes) I'll be waiting for King Jesus when He comes (my Lord) I'll be standing at the station with my ticket in my hand Oh, I'm going back with Jesus when He comes (Lord when He comes). Oh yes, I'm going back with Jesus when He comes (Lord when He comes) Oh yes, I'm going back with Jesus when He comes (my Lord) I'll be standing at the station with my ticket in my hand Oh, I'm going back with Jesus when He comes (Lord when He comes Comes, comes, comes, coooooooooomesssss.......... SH |
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27 Oct 03 - 06:09 PM (#1042842) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Q (Frank Staplin) The tune of both comes from the old gospel (spiritual?) "When the Chariot Comes," printed 1899, if not some earlier song that is not identified. Posted in this thread by Masato (09 Feb 02) and by Richie in thread 4947, 13 Nov 02. Possibly the tune is descended from one of the variants of "Ship of Zion," Sacred Harp (?) and old spirituals, but this is strictly speculative. |
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23 Jan 04 - 03:27 AM (#1099402) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: GUEST,wesriggins1@aol.com I NEED THE CHORDS TO THIS SONG. I DON'T KNOW HOW TO READ MUSIC, SO IF YOU ANYONE COULD TELL ME HOW IT GOES I WOULD APPRECIATE... |
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23 Jan 04 - 03:40 AM (#1099408) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: GUEST,stevecampbeltown@hotmail.com Surely SHE was a train and the 6 WHITE HORSES was the steam the PINK PYJAMAS the fire etc., |
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21 Apr 04 - 08:14 PM (#1167415) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: GUEST,DavidInLondon (guest) Don't suppose anyone is allowed to write out the chords, wesriggins, for copyright reasons - although of course this song is in the Public Domain (I think, but you Americans have very weird copyright laws...). If you find a copy of Roll In My Sweet Baby's Arms - it uses the same chords. Aw heck, so sue me: G|G|G|G| G|G|D7|D7| G|G7|C|C| G|D7|G|G| If you want a slightly jazzier version, insert a Csharp diminished chord in the 12th bar. Yee hah! David |
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27 Apr 22 - 10:48 PM (#4140376) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Daniel Kelly Has anyone heard of a version of this song which includes the lines: "Down from the mountain the old woman comes driving in the rain. The six stallions that she drives are white as snow from the hooves up to the mane." Leslie Fish asked the question on Facebook. |
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28 Apr 22 - 09:49 AM (#4140430) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Steve Gardham I don't see the text of 'Ship of Zion' here which would be useful. SHE of course is simply the ship/chariot, so let's not get too carried away:) |
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28 Apr 22 - 11:47 AM (#4140443) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: leeneia Listen to people talk. The biggest feature in an area is THE feature. In Milwaukee, if you say The Lake, you mean enormous Lake Michigan, not some overgrown puddle surrounded by summer cottages. In Kansas City, The River is the wide Missouri, not the middle-sized Kansas River or the little Little Blue. In this song, The Mountain is the big one in these parts, and there's no need to name it. I personally think that "she" is a famous entertainer on tour, such as Sarah Bernhardt or Jenny Lind. |
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28 Apr 22 - 05:56 PM (#4140539) Subject: RE: Coming Round Which Mountain? From: Steve Gardham Carl Sandberg in 1927 nailed it. We don't need to look any further to take the meaning. Yes, I know songs can change their meanings as they go through the process and get rewritten, but the original meaning seems clear enough. |