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18 Oct 98 - 09:21 PM (#42263) Subject: REQ: Bob Coltman Song From: Barbara I heard this back in the 60's, and its not among the Bob Coltman songs in DT. Here's what I recall:
If you will weave me a green grass [shirt?]
Does that ring any bells for anyone? |
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18 Oct 98 - 11:43 PM (#42291) Subject: RE: REQ: Bob Coltman Song From: Art Thieme It's called "WEB OF BIRDSONG"
If you will weave me a web of birdsong That's asll I remember! It's arounbd here on cassettes somewhere--as sung by Dodi Kallick (mom of Cathy Kallick of the GOOD OLD PERSONS). She sang it around Chicago in the 50's and 60's. It was only recorded by one person that I know of. Janet Smith (sister of Mayne Smith) on an Arhoolie LP called something like __OUT WEST__---a sampler of singers that hung out in Berkeley back in the 60's. A fine guitarist named Perry Letterman had his only few recordings on this album too. Janet Smith had a later solo LP but these songs were ALL GREAT ones. "The Unicorn" and a great version of "Lady Gay"-------The first time I ever got a crush on a gal because of her fingerpicking! But that's all the songs she had on the LP.
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19 Oct 98 - 12:24 AM (#42298) Subject: Lyr Add: WEB OF BIRDSONG From: Art Thieme Ms. Barbara,
Here it is. It IS a beautiful song... Barbara---I know this song isn't very PC, but I'd like to think this song depicts reality and not the fantastic vision many would say it does. I, for one, believe this song. By the way, I was wrong in my previous answer! This song wasn't on the OUT WEST LP. I think it was on Janet Smith's solo LP done a long while after the first album. Well, whatever...now you've got Bob Coltman's song. Enjoy! Art
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19 Oct 98 - 02:12 AM (#42316) Subject: RE: REQ: Bob Coltman Song From: Barbara Thank you ever so much, Art. The pieces of it have been teasing around in my head for years now, along with the tune. I don't know that love songs can be PC. They can, however, speak to the stations one passes through on the way; it doesn't have to be all rock salt and nails to be true. I always loved Ewan McColl's "The First Time Ever", particularly that he said in the last verse: "The first time ever I lay with you/ And felt your heart beat next to mine/I thought our love would fill the earth/ and would last till the end of time, my love, and would last till the end of time." Thought. There are those times when you think it will last forever, and I'll belong to you and only you and never go away. Pete Seeger always apologizes for singing Dunbarton's Drums, because it is a really un-PC love song, and it doesn't keep it from also being beautiful. Clump, skreeakk, ... climbing down and kicking the soap box out of the way... Thanks again, Art, for a lovely song. Blessings, Barbara |
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21 Oct 00 - 11:33 PM (#324292) Subject: Web of Birdsong From: Seth I'm looking for lyrics to a song I heard from Berkeley folksinger Janet Smith a long time ago." Web of Birdsong" I think it is on her one album that she made for Takoma. It might have been written by a early sixties Berkeley folksinger named Charlie Brown. I know some of the lyrics, but not enough. Thanks Seth in China |
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22 Oct 00 - 06:18 PM (#324804) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Web of Birdsong From: Barbara Nope, Charlie didn't write it, Bob Coltman did. But it did get sung in Berkeley a lot in the 60's and 70's. Click here for an earlier thread where we posted the lyrics. Did you or she hear it at a Teton Tea? Blessings, Barbara |
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26 Mar 04 - 08:14 PM (#1147162) Subject: RE: REQ: Bob Coltman Song 'If You Will Weave Me-' From: harpgirl I think this song may be too wordy for me to sing... |
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26 Mar 04 - 08:55 PM (#1147192) Subject: RE: REQ: Bob Coltman Song 'If You Will Weave Me-' From: Art Thieme The first time I heard it Web Of Birdsong was being sung beautifully by DODI KALLICK, mother of the fine bluegrass singer KATHY KALLICK (The Good Old Persons). Back around 1956 and into the 1970s it was the most requested song Dodi Kallick sang. And KATHY KALLICK has recorded this song on the great tribute CD that she did for her mom in 2001. Find it on Kathy Kallick--My Mothers Voice COPPER CREEK RECORDS---CCCD-0201 P.O. Box 3161 Roanoke, VA---24015 e-mail: CopCrk@aol.com www.coppercreekrecords.com AN ASIDE: Some of you have been recipients of a few of the photos I've taken during my 40 years on the folk scene. Shortly those will all (around 6oo of my slides and a few of me and others that I included just 'cause I wanted to) will be available on Kathy Kallick's father, Bruce Kallick's, website. When that is all set up we will start a thread here at Mudcat to give out the particulars. Art Thieme |
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26 Mar 04 - 09:50 PM (#1147224) Subject: RE: REQ: Bob Coltman Song 'If You Will Weave Me-' From: harpgirl aka/ BK LICK........ |
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26 Mar 04 - 11:05 PM (#1147255) Subject: RE: REQ: Bob Coltman Song 'If You Will Weave Me-' From: Art Thieme Abby, What do that mean? Art |
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27 Mar 04 - 02:41 AM (#1147359) Subject: RE: REQ: Bob Coltman Song 'If You Will Weave Me-' From: BK Lick I've always purely loved this song. I remember the first time I heard it was at George and Gerry's about 1958 but I can't remember who sang it -- maybe Howie Mitchell. The story was that Bob had written it as a wedding present for his bride. I've just put it up on Kathy's web site in MP3 and streaming RealAudio. —BK |
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27 Mar 04 - 02:55 AM (#1147363) Subject: RE: REQ: Bob Coltman Song 'If You Will Weave Me-' From: open mike how wonderful to know that kathy's folks are musical! \ by the way, the doggie icon by the Weave song actually leads to the "Home" song...if any one is in touch with the web master and can tell them that... |
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27 Mar 04 - 03:13 AM (#1147370) Subject: RE: REQ: Bob Coltman Song 'If You Will Weave Me-' From: BK Lick Oops... I done fixed it. Thanks for the catch! I guess it's kinda relevant to this thread to say I prefer to call myself a web weaver -- not very masterful, I'm afraid, although I managed to fool my dog for a long time. —BK |
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27 Mar 04 - 10:41 AM (#1147555) Subject: RE: REQ: Bob Coltman Song 'If You Will Weave Me-' From: harpgirl Have you figured it out yet, Art? |
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27 Mar 04 - 11:27 AM (#1147581) Subject: RE: REQ: Bob Coltman Song 'If You Will Weave Me-' From: Art Thieme Just now. Art |
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27 Mar 04 - 01:51 PM (#1147678) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bob Coltman Song 'If You Will Weave Me-' From: Barbara AKA = pseudonym of I think it stands for "And Known As" Welcome, Bruce. It looks like you're a migratory visitor to this site. Blessings, Barbara |
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28 Mar 04 - 01:16 AM (#1148009) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bob Coltman Song 'If You Will Weave Me-' From: Barbara I think I've got chords around somewhere. I'll post them soon, but not right now, since I've got to get to bed so we can go off and sing for Merritt tomorrow. He's dropped the transfusions and decided to let go the rope, so tomorrow is probably the last sing. Maybe Art can come up with them first, hey? Blessings, Barbara |
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28 Mar 04 - 01:21 AM (#1148012) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bob Coltman Song 'If You Will Weave M From: Sandy Paton Dear Barbara, Sing one for Merritt for us, will you please? Sandy |
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28 Mar 04 - 02:11 AM (#1148030) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bob Coltman Song 'If You Will Weave Me-' From: Barbara You betcha, Sandy. What would you like? Blessings, Barbara |
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02 Apr 04 - 12:21 AM (#1152530) Subject: Chords Add: WEB OF BIRDSONG From: Barbara Here you go, Abby. Chord precedes the word where it changes. I just sat down with the guitar and pulled these up. YMMV. If (D)you will (G)weave me a (D)web of (A)birdsong (G)from the thrush or the (A)linnet, (D)Then you shall have my (Em)own true heart and (A)all the (E)love that's (A)in it, If (D)you will weave me a (Em)scallop shell as (G)purple as violets in (A)May, I'll be(D)long to you and (Em)only you--and (A)never go a(D)way. And it looks like we'll be singing for Merritt again this Sunday. Blessings, Barbara |
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10 Apr 04 - 12:33 PM (#1158558) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bob Coltman Song 'If You Will Weave Me-' From: harpgirl Many thanks Barbara. It is such a lovely song. I am going to work on it today. I must plan a trip to Oregon for singing and playing. Any suggestions for festivals? Abby |
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10 Apr 04 - 01:12 PM (#1158595) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bob Coltman Song 'If You Will Weave Me-' From: harpgirl Well, gee...Kathy Kallick plays it in A with the capo at the first fret. So is that in Bflat? I think I have a reason to get another autoharp! Yippee I have to transpose it to make it fit the harps I have now... |
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10 Apr 04 - 03:49 PM (#1158734) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bob Coltman Song 'If You Will Weave Me-' From: Barbara I can transpose it for you if you want, Abby. I just picked a fairly accessable key (one I can sing it in and that's not too hard to play on the guitar). The key of A I can do easily; Bb I probably will have to think about, since I don't usually play in that. You could just tune your autoharp up a halftone and... They don't make autoharp capos, do they? Blessings, Barbara |
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18 Feb 06 - 11:50 PM (#1672584) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bob Coltman Song 'If You Will Weave Me-' From: GUEST,Andy Kent ASKent@msn.com Hi, all, I don't know if anyone is still hanging by this thread, or if anyone cares, but the original recording of Bob Coltman's "Web of Birdsong", albeit with slightly different lyrics, was by Charlie Brown on the Broadside/Folkways album, "Teton Tea Party with Charlie Brown" (BR305). I produced the album in 1967, thanks to Harry Smith, who believed in the project and recommended it to Moe Asch. We recorded the entire album in Charlie's East Village (NYC) apartment just before he left to set up a tipi colony in the Wind River Mountains. You can get a custom CD of this album from Smithsonian Folkways for about $20. Also on this album was "The Ballad of Earl Durand", which has since been re-released as part of the "The Best of Broadside" compilation. If anyone wants more information, the lirics to Charlie's version of "Birdsong", a copy of the five-page liner notes booklet not available in the Smithsonian releases, or a copy of the magnificent cover art from the original Broadside LP, please email me. Sadly, Charlie is no longer with us, but his memory lives on through this long-forgotten recording. If Bob Coltman is still around, perhaps he has some recollections. I stumbled upon this thread while Googling and just had to respond. ANDY KENT in NYC |
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19 Feb 06 - 12:10 AM (#1672594) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bob Coltman Song 'If You Will Weave Me-' From: GUEST,Art Thieme Fascinating! It's a tangled web we weave around this good song. Art |
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19 Feb 06 - 12:59 AM (#1672604) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bob Coltman Song 'If You Will Weave Me-' From: Amos I followed this thread over to Kathy Kallick's site and heard this song for the first time tonight. There are riches, and then there are riches, and just finding a song like this is a kind of treasure that makes all the crassness and irritation go away and life look good again. Many thanks, Art, Barbara and BK Lick. Ya made me day. A |
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19 Feb 06 - 10:41 AM (#1672816) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bob Coltman Song 'If You Will Weave M From: GUEST,Bob Coltman Never knew this thread was here, folks, until today. Belated thanks to Art Thieme for providing the words, and thank you all for your warm appreciations. Nothing could please me more than to know that this song is loved; it is surely one for lovers. It was the first song I ever wrote -- at least, that I admit to. :) (Hate to break a beautiful story, but I didn't write it for my bride...what a lovely idea...but I was unmarried at the time: 1958.) And, though I heartily agree the song is (shall we say) pre-PC, one of the most satisfying things to me is that a number of people have chosen it for their wedding song -- I've sung it at a couple of weddings myself, and have heard of it being sung at a goodly number of others. But one very important thing remains to be said about this song, which is more frequently known nowadays as "Web of Birdsong." I quote from my email about four years ago to Kathy Kallick: The first verse is a lyric poem by a talented child prodigy of the early 20th century, Hilda Conkling. I found it printed as a poem in the Boston Sunday Globe Magazine c. 1956. It had originally been published in the Ladies' Home Journal, complete in one verse, entitled "Promise." I added the remaining verses (none of which are the equal of Hilda's) and tune. Hilda Conkling is a bit of a mystery. I've been unable to find out whether she is still alive, though that possibility dwindles with every year. She was born in 1910 and while still living with her mother, the poet Grace Hazard Conkling, in Northampton, Mass, began publishing at age nine. (!) Her 1922 book Poems By a Little Girl had a preface by no less than celebrated poet Amy Lowell. (Some of her poems can be read online, though not this one, last I looked.) I've been unable to trace her beyond publication of another book in 1924. The song should be credited (Conkling-Coltman) and is copyright Bob Coltman 1969, if that's useful to you. I continue to be interested in any information concerning Hilda Conkling's later life. She should be better known. With appreciation to her for the beautiful beginning of a song, Bob |
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19 Feb 06 - 11:01 AM (#1672842) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bob Coltman Song 'If You Will Weave M From: GUEST,Bob Coltman By the way just to set the record straight -- The song's currency predates the late Charlie Brown. He did indeed sing it in the Tetons, but by the time he picked it up "If You Will Weave Me" had been in circulation at the Teton Tea Parties, and in several other parts of the country, for several years. I originally sang it in Cambridge, Hanover (Dartmouth College Folk Festival) and elsewhere in New England c. 1958-9, at the Teton Tea Parties in summer 1959, and in September 1959 on the West Coast. It was picked up by my friend and traveling companion Bill Briggs, who sang it at the Teton Tea Parties for several years and spread it widely around the west quite some while before Charlie came into the picture. Brigger is the guy who ought to get credit for making the song known. And all honor to Charlie, but his Teton Tea Party recording was not first. It came some years after the real first recording of "Web of Birdsong" / "If You Will Weave Me." The poster above was correct who cited my old friend Janet Smith's recording, which I believe came out some five or six years prior to Charlie's. Bob |
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19 Feb 06 - 01:10 PM (#1672976) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bob Coltman Song 'If You Will Weave Me-' From: GUEST,Art Thieme ...and, as I've said before, thanks to BK LICK, my folk scene photos are all at: http://rudegnu.com/art_thieme.html To see those, when prompted, enter the lower case word "mudcat" for both the user name and the password. All the best, Art Thieme |
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19 Feb 06 - 02:58 PM (#1673080) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bob Coltman Song 'If You Will Weave Me-' From: Charley Noble Thanks for refreshing this thread. Charley Noble |
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09 Mar 07 - 05:49 PM (#1991978) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bob Coltman Song 'If You Will Weave Me-' From: GUEST,David Laing I believe that when Bob wrote this, the second line of verse #1 went "Then you shall have my heart and hand and all the love that's in it." The inconsistency bothered me enough (and probably SHOULD have bothered Bob, who later became a professional copy editor!) to keep me from singing the song much, and I'm pleased to see this edit, but wondering why I never thought of it myself! |
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09 Mar 07 - 08:31 PM (#1992113) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bob Coltman Song 'If You Will Weave M From: BK Lick Wikipedia has an article about Hilda Conkling, who died in 1986. I think Bob may be mistaken about the date of Janet Smith's recording -- it's given as 1968 in this discography. —BK |
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10 Mar 07 - 02:41 PM (#1992750) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bob Coltman Song 'If You Will Weave Me-' From: GUEST,David Laing Sometimes I wonder why I shoot my mouth off before what's left of my brain is in gear. With sincere apologies to Bob, I hereby retract my thoughtless comment about verse 1, line 2, posted yesterday. On reflection, I realized that I never heard Bob sing that song himself, and doubtless by the time it reached the bard from whom I heard it, the "folk process" had taken its toll and morphed it into the line I quoted. I shall atone for my egregious faux pas by taking guitar in hand and finally putting this lovely song into my repertoire, where it should have been all along. Ve get too soon oldt und too late schmardt. |
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27 Dec 07 - 10:00 PM (#2223518) Subject: Lyr Add: WEB OF BIRDSONG (Bob Coltman) From: Jim Dixon If the above transcription weren't accurate, I suppose Bob would have said so when he posted here. Therefore I present the following version as evidence that the folk process has been to work on his song. Copied from FolkSongCollector.com, which also has the sheet music. WEB OF BIRDSONG Bob Coltman If you will weave me a web of birdsong from the thrush or the linnet, Then you shall have my heart and hand and all the love there's in it. If you will weave me a scallop shell as purple as the violets in May, Then I'll be yours, and only yours, and never go away. If you will weave me a green grass basket to carry our heart's love in, Then you shall have my heart and hand to lock with a silver pin, If you will make me a cloak of kisses for cover on a rainy day, Then I'll be yours, and only yours, and never go away. If you will love me more than fully, and longer than forever, Then we two shall married be with a knot that none can sever. If you will love me in the night, and love me in the day, Then I'll be yours, and only yours, and never go away. If you will bear me the child of our dreams and raise him to be a man, Then I will love you more than fully, and much more than I can, If you will bear me a cobweb child that lives unto the day, Then I'll be yours, and only yours, and never go away. If you will build me a bonny, bonny boat to sail on the water so wide, Then we will sail the seas of love, and you shall ride inside. If you will build me a house of moonbeams that lasts unto the day, Then I'll be yours, and only yours, and never go away. |
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28 Dec 07 - 02:01 AM (#2223561) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Web of Birdsong (Bob Coltman) From: BK Lick Sorry to see this inferior version posted here -- Art had it just right. The folksongcollecter.com site even has the melody wrong fer Pete's sake. —BK |
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28 Dec 07 - 11:57 AM (#2223732) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Web of Birdsong (Bob Coltman) From: dick greenhaus When Political Correctness makes it necessary to apologize for a good love song, then it;s time for Political Correctness to go. |
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05 Apr 09 - 06:48 PM (#2605266) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Web of Birdsong (Bob Coltman) From: maeve Here's a lovely song I missed the first time, a poet I've always liked, and a lovely man who is not longer singing for us, though many of us are singing to his memory. maeve |
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06 Apr 09 - 08:32 AM (#2605549) Subject: ADD: Web of Birdsong (Bob Coltman) From: GUEST,Bob Coltman The questions of accuracy raised about the lyrics left me uncertain just what was the "original" version of what I once called "If You Will Weave Me" but now concur with everyone else in calling "Web of Birdsong"-- since over the years I've sung various versions (mostly because I forget lyrics easily and make things up on the spot). So out of curiosity I went back to the source. I wrote the song in 1957, sang it publicly a while, then eliminated one verse (note below) and finally finished it in May 1958 -- it's the 1958 copy I now have. Note: For various reasons I eliminated the "cobweb child" verse, which was in my earliest version, and I prefer not to repeat it here. I have never sung it since, but others who picked it up early on have continued to use it. This is how it began and how I sang it when it first circulated (minus that verse). Since then I'm responsible for some of the variants, while others have changed the song further. WEB OF BIRDSONG By Hilda Conkling (first verse, as "Promise") and Bob Coltman (remaining verses and tune): If you will weave me a web of birdsong from the thrush or the linnet, Then you shall have my heart and hand and all the love there's in it, If you will weave me a scallop-shell, purple as violets in May, I'll belong to you and only you, and never go away. If you will buy me a green grass basket to carry our hearts' love in, Then you shall have the love I bear to lock with a silver pin, If you will buy me a cloak of kisses to cover on a rainy day, I'll belong to you and only you and never go away. If you will build me a stout strong boat to sail on the waters so wide, Then I shall sail the seas of love and you shall ride inside, If you will build me a house of moonbeams that stands in a sunny day, I'll belong to you and only you, and never go away. If you will love me more than fully, and longer than forever, Then we two shall married be by a knot that none can sever, If you will love me in the night and love me in the day, I'll belong to you and only you, and never go away. |
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08 Apr 09 - 09:22 PM (#2607745) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Web of Birdsong (Bob Coltman) From: Jim Dixon Books by Hilda Conkling (1910-1986): Poems by a Little Girl, New York, Frederick A. Stokes Company, 1920. Shoes of the Wind: A Book of Poems, New York, Frederick A. Stokes Company, 1922. Silverhorn: The Hilda Conkling Book for Other Children, New York, Frederick A. Stokes Company, 1924. Summer-Day Song, New York: L. W. Singer Co., 1969. [Copyright has expired on the first two books; the links will take you to the text at Google Books.] |
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08 Apr 09 - 10:32 PM (#2607775) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Web of Birdsong (Bob Coltman) From: Art Thieme Once again, Mudcat amazes with the rather miraculous machinations of threads like this one that go back over a decade. Art |
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09 Apr 09 - 07:15 AM (#2607915) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Web of Birdsong (Bob Coltman) From: maeve Thank you to Bob Coltman, Jim Dixon, and Art Thieme for your additions. I was so happy to come across this thread in searching through the archives. You've made it even better. maeve |
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09 Apr 09 - 06:53 PM (#2608331) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Web of Birdsong (Bob Coltman) From: BK Lick Bob didn't eliminate a verse, it seems, he just changed the third line of the third verse. Also, Bob gives the first two verses as referring to "my heart and hand" and "the love I bear," whereas Art's version (which he transcribed from a Dodi Kallick cassette) has "my own true heart" and "my heart and hand," as Kathy (who learned it from her mom) recorded it. —BK |
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15 Dec 12 - 11:52 PM (#3452583) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Web of Birdsong (Bob Coltman) From: GUEST,David Wendt I first heard this song sung by a folksinger, Francie Love, when I was a wrangler at a dude ranch in Jackson Hole in 1962. I sang it for many years thereafter (Jim Dixon's "folk-processed" version), but then stopped singing for many years and forgot the words. I hadn't seen Francie again until two years ago, when I was going door-to-door running for Congress and knocked on hers in Laramie. She died shortly thereafter. Now, 50 years after first hearing her sing it, I am glad to rediscover the words as I prepare a few songs to sing over the holidays with my wife, whom I met at that ranch, my sons, and my grandson. Thanks, Bob. |