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22 Jun 04 - 03:41 AM (#1211873) Subject: BS: Administration's Lies From: Nerd Tonight on the Daily Show they had a feature exposing Bush Administration lies. They've done this before, but this was a particularly good one. First, they showed an interview that took place a day or two ago with Cheney--I think it was a CNBC interviewer. Cheney said that, even though the 9/11 commission had found that there was no working relationship between the Iraqi Government and Al Qaeda, this was not at odds with the administration. The administration had never claimed they were allies, merely that they had had "contacts." Cut to Bush on the Aircraft Carrier saying "we have defeated Iraq, we have removed an ally of Al Qaeda." Back to the Cheney interview. The interviewer points out that Cheney had spread a story about Mohammed Atta, one of the 9/11 terrorists, and an Iraqi embassy official meeting in Prague, an event which the 9/11 commission now says never happened (and which Vaclav Havel AND the CIA have been saying all along never happened, since Atta was in Virginia Beach at the time). "I never claimed that had happened," Cheney lied. "I believe you said it was fairly certain," the interviewer said. "I never said that," Cheney lied. Cut to an old interview, where Cheney says, "It's fairly certain that Mohamed Atta met with an Iraqi official in Prague." It was pretty nice to see the liars exposed once again. And hey, I can't wait for the blustery outraged conservative responses! |
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22 Jun 04 - 09:44 AM (#1212057) Subject: RE: BS: Administration's Lies From: Rapparee Yeah. They rank right up there with the XYZ Affair, Credit Mobilier of America, the Salary Grab, Watergate, Iran Contra, Teapot Dome, the Whiskey Ring, Black Friday, |
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22 Jun 04 - 09:46 AM (#1212059) Subject: RE: BS: Administration's Lies From: Rapparee Sorry -- didn't finish the list. But you get the idea. |
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22 Jun 04 - 10:12 AM (#1212078) Subject: RE: BS: Administration's Lies From: Amos The recent Supreme Court's ERISA decision that patients can't sue HMOs in state courts if they've been injured as a result of the HMO's refusal to treat something. Patients can sue in federal courts, but there they only win the amount of the benefit missed and can't get punitive damages. The Cpurt's decision invalidates portions of a Texas patients' rights bill that was passed in 1997 without the signature of then-Gov. Bush. In 2000, Bush trumpeted the bill as a model of bipartisan progress. "If I'm president," Bush said during a debate, "people will be able to take their HMO insurance company to court. That's what I've done in Texas, and that's the kind of leadership style I'll bring to Washington." During this Supreme Court case, the administration, as the Post puts it, "echoed" the HMOs' stance and argued for limiting access to courts. And as the Post also explains, the administration says it supports revising the law to allow suits, but wants strict limits on damage awards, something many supporters of the bill oppose. ...Another promise kept int he best Bush fashion, right up there with "Read my lips, no new taxes....". This guy is a miserable incompetent. A |
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22 Jun 04 - 12:57 PM (#1212230) Subject: RE: BS: Administration's Lies From: DougR Gee, Nerd, that sounds like a very fair and balanced report! Perhaps the program's producer's should have waited until the Commission's report is revealed to the public rather than jumping the gun with a biased staff report. How do I know it is biased? The two co-chairmen have publically distanced themselves from it. DougR |
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22 Jun 04 - 04:53 PM (#1212395) Subject: RE: BS: Administration's Lies From: Nerd Gee, DougR, your comment doesn't strike me as relevant. Maybe you didn't read my post. Once again, The Daily Show juxtaposed statements by Cheney about what the administration has said in the past, with footage showing those statements to be lies. The 9/11 Report was merely the topic of one of his lies; whether that report is factual or erroneous is irrelevant to the question of Cheney's honesty. Once again, Cheney said: "I never said that it was fairly certain that Atta met with an Iraqi official in Prague." Then they showed footage of Cheney saying exactly that. He also said that no one in the administration had ever said that Iraq and Al Qaeda were allies. Then they showed footage of the Aircraft Carrier speech, in which Bush said exactly that. In other words, Cheney was baldly, blatantly, openly, unashamedly lying, and whatever your take on the 9/11 report is, it can't change that. In fact, if Cheney's most recent statements were made in response to a premature 9/11 report, he is the one who should have kept his mouth shut. Nobody forced him to lie to CNBC! But the fact that he of all people is out there spinning damage control suggests to me that the final report will be even more damaging to the administration. |
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22 Jun 04 - 05:00 PM (#1212400) Subject: RE: BS: Administration's Lies From: Amos DougR: Get used to it -- your elected leaders are a pack of compulsive liars. The hold the truth in no regard, unless it happens to serve their needs as well as a lie might. Otherwise, invention is the better part of valor intheir minds. Don't care for it myself. Not very Jeffersonian, y'know! A |
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22 Jun 04 - 05:02 PM (#1212402) Subject: RE: BS: Administration's Lies From: Nerd Another thing that frankly cracks me up, DougR, is how administration apologists can hide behind the Fox News slogan every time their friends are criticized. What does it mean to be "fair and balanced" in a report that simply documents Cheney lying? Would the anchor have to say "occasionally, Cheney spoke the truth?" |
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22 Jun 04 - 05:16 PM (#1212416) Subject: RE: BS: Administration's Lies From: GUEST,guest from NW i'm guessing we won't hear back from dougR on this thread. several months ago in the "popular views of the bush admin." thread he challenged anyone to document a bush lie. i did so and never heard from doug again on that thread or others where i brought up the subject again. his style of argument/debate is much like his hero GWB and his minions which goes something like "tell lie over and over-when disproven change subject or attack the disprover" or, if that doesn't work, say "it's true cuz i say it's true! nyay-nyah-nah-nah-nah!") |
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22 Jun 04 - 05:55 PM (#1212443) Subject: RE: BS: Administration's Lies From: Peace GUEST, I remember that. However, defending a gang of liars has gotta be one tough row to hoe. DougR IS a loyal Republican. |
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22 Jun 04 - 06:20 PM (#1212462) Subject: RE: BS: Administration's Lies From: Greg F. No, Bruce, he's a loyal Jackass. There are plenty of nominal "Republicans" who are embarrassed by the corrupt gang of lying sons of bitches that make up the current administration. |
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22 Jun 04 - 06:34 PM (#1212475) Subject: RE: BS: Administration's Lies From: McGrath of Harlow It did rather look there as if Doug had dashed off that post without reading past the first half dozen lines in Nerd's thread launching post. The trouble is, that way of dealing with awkward points is the way you can expect the media to do it, all the way to the finishing post. And even when there's a spasm of even-handed reporting, people are selective in only seeing what supports their pre-existing position, the way Doug did just then. There will be people who watched that broadcast, and what they'll come away with will just be the bits where the politician of their choice denies that they ever said anything different from what they are saying now. The previous quote will just be erased from their memory even while they watch it. The human mind is a very strange creature. (And that applies just as much to people with a whole range of political viewpoints.) |
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22 Jun 04 - 06:46 PM (#1212483) Subject: RE: BS: Administration's Lies From: Bobert Well, if this was just about 9/11 or Iraq, it would be bad enough but it isn't. The Bush folks lie about everything. "No Child Left Behind" is a good example. Bush sticks out his chest and talks about how he has reformed the eductaion system and say's that "no child will be left behind". Then he won't write the shecks to fund the program he pushed so hard to get thru Congress... Perscription Drugs? The same. He pumps out his chest agan aqnd boasts how he has helped and boasts of how he is helping seniors pay for their perscription drugs. The implication is that seniors accross the board are being helped. But the fact is that the Medicare Reform Bill doesn't help seniors accross the board. Might of fact it may not end up helping but a tiny minority of seniors who are both eligible and can figure out the Bush pa-under-the-shell "discount card" sytem that the Republicans crafted in private session (no Dems allowed) that helps the drug companies and the insurance companies. These are just a couple of examples. There are plenty more. Plenty! Hey, I don't *mean* to sound so cynical about the Bush folks but, hey, they have earned this distrust and more and more folks are catching on. Bobert |
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22 Jun 04 - 07:25 PM (#1212515) Subject: RE: BS: Administration's Lies From: DougR Surprise, surprise Guest from the Great NW, I am back! I still do not believe it has been proven that Bush lied! Only folks like you and Amos like to repeat it and repeat it, and repeat it (sounds good to your ears no doubt) and it so often, they come to believe it themselves! If it could be PROVEN that Bush lied about the many things you, Amos, Bobert, and gee so many other Mudcatters say he did, The NYT, SFC, LAT, WP would be on it like flies on you-know-what. DougR |
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22 Jun 04 - 08:04 PM (#1212549) Subject: RE: BS: Administration's Lies From: Bobert All of the publications you mentioned failed to accurately report on the anit-war demonstartions that occured prior ro Bish's invasion, Dougie. I went to one in DC in either November or December and it was very well attended with at least 250,000 people in the streetes marching on Dick Cheney's house. The WP reported 10,000 in 2 paragraphs on page 17. The 8 or 9 Bush hecklers got a whole paragraph themselves and were quoted. None of the demonstartors were qutoted. Also, all of the publications you listed have been supporting the FCC and Bush's intent to drop ownership regs which will have the effect of cutting down on media competition... And lets not forget the complete and total "pass" that they gave Bush proir to the 2000 Election about is alcoholism and womanizing. And lets also not forget that none of these publications saw fit to print the findings of election fraud uncovered by Greg Palist about Jeb and Kates little tampering with the Florida voters roles... No, Doug, if these publications aren't going to deal with these issues they certainly arne't going to use the "L" word about a man they are very much in bed with. But despite their motivations to be part of Bush's many cover-ups, the truth is starting to seep out. Will these publications calll Bush the liar that he is? No. Who cares?The people are starting to figure it out. Bobert |
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22 Jun 04 - 08:09 PM (#1212550) Subject: RE: BS: Administration's Lies From: Amos Oh, Doug. I am so sorry for asserting unproven things. I expect the truth will come out and we will all discover that Bush never did claim that Iraq was within 45 minutes of a strike using weapons of mass destruction, and never did say that Iraq was an ally of Al Qeda, and never did claim that there was a real and present danger (whatever language he may have used) to the U.S. I am sure he never claimed to have improved the lot of elderly medical patients with prescrioption drugs, and never asserted he had made sure that the educational needs of the nation were being met. Here are a few compilations of the falsehoods the man has foisted on his somewhat skeptical public: "The True Lies of GWB" "Twenty Lies of GWB" Bush Lies Mis-Lead Harry Browner Oasis TV One Thousand Reasons Lies.Com Creepier than Nixon All the President's Lies David Corn, Author of "The Lies of George W. Bush: bushin30seconds Beating about the Bush The Bush Credibility Gap Bush Administration Officials' Lies And some other quotes of interest: For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction [as justification for invading Iraq] because it was the one reason everyone could agree on. - Paul Wolfowitz, Vanity Fair interview, May 28, 2003 From the very beginning, there was a conviction, that Saddam Hussein was a bad person and that he needed to go. Going after Saddam was topic "A" ten days after the inauguration - eight months before Sept. 11. - former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill, CBS' 60 Minutes, Jan. 11, 2004 I don't think they [WMD] existed. What everyone was talking about is stockpiles produced after the end of the last [1991] Gulf War, and I don't think there was a large-scale production program in the '90s. - David Kay, former chief weapons inspector of the UN Special Commission on Iraq, Reuters, Jan. 24, 2004 Intelligence "analysts never said there was an imminent threat" from Iraq before the war. - CIA Director George Tenet, speech, Feb. 5, 2004 Never mind. Some people get so spun up in rationalization that they no longer know when a lie is a lie. They have walked away from truth as being of any merit or singificance. Your Furless Leader is such a one, and he has surrounded himself with ilk. A |
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22 Jun 04 - 08:31 PM (#1212561) Subject: RE: BS: Administration's Lies From: Bobert Now there you go again, Amos... Yer gonna put a hurtin' on poor Dougi's head with this much stuff to assimilate. Not. He won't read much of it. Guarenteed. I've challenged him in the past to read stuff. I even offered to read one of his guys. But he ain't taken me up on the offer. I will tell ya this much. In my next life I want to come back as a Republican. Don't really have to remember too much more than bumper stickers... Awww, jus' funnin' wid ya, Dougie. Now come on over here and get a hug, Big Guy... Bobert |
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22 Jun 04 - 09:02 PM (#1212574) Subject: RE: BS: Administration's Lies From: GUEST,guest from NW "I still do not believe it has been proven that Bush lied!" yeah, i think we gotcha on that one there ol'doug. i don't think you'd believe it under any circumstances, even if bill o'reilly himself said...oh, that's right, o'reilly did say that...nevermind. go back to your TV...i think the paris hilton show is coming on...gawd, she's funny, ain't she... |
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22 Jun 04 - 09:46 PM (#1212588) Subject: RE: BS: Administration's Lies From: BaldEagle2 er... I wonder if you guys could help me. I am a fairly new U.S. citizen of English descent, and my Momma did tell me when I came out here that if I ever became a citizen, I should be a Republican because they are so like our English Tory party. So, being young and niaive, I gave her my word. But I am having some difficulty in being true to that promise to my Momma. I thought that if there was some way I could show Momma that I act and think like a Republican, I won't have to actually join their political party. (Neat dodge, eh?) So. What do I do? TIA |
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22 Jun 04 - 09:59 PM (#1212603) Subject: RE: BS: Administration's Lies From: Amos Jes' lie through your teeth and make it clear you are manipulating her for personal gain, BE2. She'll understand, I am sure. A |
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22 Jun 04 - 10:18 PM (#1212614) Subject: RE: BS: Administration's Lies From: kendall Doug, if Bush didn't lie, where are the WMD's? |
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22 Jun 04 - 10:27 PM (#1212618) Subject: RE: BS: Administration's Lies From: kendall The 9/11 commission says there is no credible evidence of a link between Al Qaeda and Iraq. What is this group of lawyers that is calling for Cheney's resignation? |
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22 Jun 04 - 10:35 PM (#1212620) Subject: RE: BS: Administration's Lies From: Bobert Well, Dougie, I gotta give you credit fir sticken yer head into this hornet's nest... Come on back. Seems lots of folks have questions for you... Aww, still funnin'. We all know that you ain't got the answers. Thta's why we ask 'um... Bobert |
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23 Jun 04 - 12:03 AM (#1212645) Subject: RE: BS: Administration's Lies From: Stilly River Sage Then there are the adminstration/republican dirty tricks: Kerry Drops Campaign Trip for Senate Vote That Wasn't By Paul Farhi and Helen Dewar Washington Post Staff Writers Wednesday, June 23, 2004; Page A07 Democratic presidential candidate John F. Kerry abruptly interrupted his campaign yesterday to return to Washington for a Senate vote that, as it happened, never happened. Kerry decided late Monday to cancel campaign stops in New Mexico scheduled for yesterday and flew back to the capital, arriving at a deserted Ronald Reagan National Airport at 2 a.m. The Massachusetts senator wanted to register his vote in support of an amendment that would have guaranteed federal funding for veterans' health care. In the end, however, Kerry never got to vote. Republicans declined to bring the Democratic-sponsored amendment to the floor while the candidate was here. So Kerry hung around for a while but then headed back to the campaign trail. Meanwhile, Republicans were mulling what to do. In between these events came a cascade of blame. Kerry's camp angrily charged that GOP leaders had used procedural maneuvers to shelve the vote in an attempt to disrupt his campaign and deny him an issue he has championed. Republicans shot back that Kerry, who has had long absences from the Senate during his campaign, was using the issue to grandstand. At one point, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) dismissed Kerry's pleas for a vote, saying, "Senator Kerry, who hadn't been here all year, who's missed 80 percent of all votes, parachutes in for a day and then will be taking off once again." By the end of the day, it was hard to say who got the better of whom. The GOP maneuvers disrupted Kerry's plans, but may have succeeded in calling attention to Kerry's credentials as a combat veteran and a veterans supporter, both of which have been centerpieces of Kerry's efforts to woo voters. In a brief floor speech late in the day, Kerry said that despite the inaction on the bill, "my support [for veterans] will never wane and my commitment to them will never be diminished." Senate Minority Leader Thomas A. Daschle (D-S.D.) had offered the amendment that Kerry and nine veterans service organizations supported. It would mandate annual spending for veterans' medical needs for the next 10 years, including an $8 billion increase next year. The amendment was offered as part of the $447.2 billion defense authorization bill on which Congress has been working for more than a month, and which Republicans are eager to pass. Frist's comment about Kerry's Senate attendance understates his record. According to an analysis by Congressional Quarterly -- which the Bush campaign pointed reporters to -- Kerry has missed 89 percent of the Senate's votes this year (14 of 132) as of Monday, and 64 percent last year. This included several votes on veterans' health care issues. Kerry campaign operatives fired back that President Bush, while campaigning for president in 2000 as Texas governor, was out of the state five times longer than he was there during the primaries. Presidential candidates often ignore their elected duties to pursue higher office, which can become a campaign issue. Sen. Robert J. Dole (R-Kan.) quit the Senate in 1996 when his campaign schedule became overwhelming. Rep. Richard A. Gephardt (D-Mo.) was rarely seen in the House during his recent run for the presidential nomination. Kerry's absence last week during a vote on an unemployment insurance benefits bill prompted Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney (R) to call on Kerry to quit his Senate seat. In addition to the veterans issue, Kerry had another good reason to be in Washington yesterday. The Senate had its official photo taken in the chamber, and had Kerry missed it, he would have been the only absentee. |
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23 Jun 04 - 12:43 AM (#1212662) Subject: RE: BS: Administration's Lies From: GUEST,peedeecee I think it's fair to say that Kerry is no great prize, and will win the election not because people will vote for him, but will vote against Bush. |
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23 Jun 04 - 01:26 AM (#1212674) Subject: RE: BS: Administration's Lies From: GUEST,Clint Keller "Cheney said that, even though the 9/11 commission had found that there was no working relationship between the Iraqi Government and Al Qaeda, this was not at odds with the administration. The administration had never claimed they were allies, merely that they had had "contacts." Cut to Bush on the Aircraft Carrier saying "we have defeated Iraq, we have removed an ally of Al Qaeda." For God's sake, Doug. What more do you need? clint |