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Lyr Req: Austrian Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'

22 Jun 04 - 12:23 PM (#1212197)
Subject: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: mack/misophist

The Demerrara thread reminded me of this. In one of R. A. Heinlein's books there is a discussion of great camping songs that included "Down in Demerrara". It also mentioned "Morgen Rot", an old Austrian cavalry song. Can any one tell be about it? I've drawn a blank, searching.


22 Jun 04 - 12:44 PM (#1212214)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: GUEST

I found reference to a translation by Max Erhmann (1872-1945) of a cavalry song 'MorgenRot' (DAWN) by Wilhelm Hauff, 1802-1827.

It's held by De Pauw Univeristy.


22 Jun 04 - 01:12 PM (#1212243)
Subject: Lyr Add: MORGENROT (Wilhelm Hauff)
From: GUEST

Morgenrot,
Leuchtest mir zum frühen Tod?
Bald wird die Trompete blasen.
Dann muß ich mein Leben lassen,
Ich und mancher Kamerad!

Kaum gedacht,
War der Lust ein End' gemacht,
Gestern noch auf stolzen Rossen,
Heute durch die Brust geschossen,
Morgen in das kühle Grab!


Wilhelm Hauff, 1824


22 Jun 04 - 06:19 PM (#1212459)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: mack/misophist

Thank you. Now, can any one add the campfire version. And perhaps some music?


24 Jun 04 - 05:10 AM (#1213390)
Subject: Lyr Add: REITERS MORGENLIED (Wilhelm Hauff)
From: Wolfgang

Original title: Reiters Morgenlied (though most German songs are only known by the first few words)

REITERS MORGENLIED (MORGENROT)
Wilhelm Hauff 1824 (1802-1827)

1. Morgenrot, Morgenrot,
Leuchtest mir zum frühen Tod?
|: Bald wird die Trompete blasen,
   Dann muß ich mein Leben lassen,
   Ich und mancher Kamerad! :|

2. Kaum gedacht, kaum gedacht,
Wird der Lust ein End gemacht!
|: Gestern noch auf stolzen Rossen,
   Heute durch die Brust geschossen,
   Morgen in das kühle Grab! :|

3. Ach wie bald, ach wie bald,
Schwindet Schönheit und Gestalt!
|: Strahlst du gleich mit deinen Wangen,
   Die wie Milch und Purpur prangen,
   Ach, die Rosen welken all! :|

4. Darum still, darum still
Füg ich mich, wie Gott es will.
|: Nun, so will ich wacker streiten,
   Und sollt ich den Tod erleiden,
   Stirbt ein braver Reitersmann! :|
Tune

Wolfgang (doing a c&p job from here)


24 Jun 04 - 05:46 AM (#1213403)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: Wolfgang

A correction to GUESTs lyrics, for they can't be sung this way.

Both first lines must be doubled to fit the tune:

Morgenrot, Morgenrot

and

Kaum gedacht, kaum gedacht

Wolfgang


24 Jun 04 - 07:20 AM (#1213436)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: greg stephens

Can this have any connection with a fiddle tune called "Morgan Rattler"? But I also have a vague feeling someone told me years ago that there was a guerilla leader(American War of Indpendence or Civil War?) caleed Morgan Rattler for his swift attacks like a rattlesnake. Anybody heard of this?


09 Jul 04 - 05:39 PM (#1222583)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: GUEST,gpennyp@bluewin.ch

A bit of trivia. The song was sung to my father by a German governess in the early 20s who told him it was popular (on her side of the trenches) during WWI. I would also note that my basic knowledge of German grammar suggests at least two errors in the lyrics as printed. There are probably others:

    "Ich und manche KameradEN" ("I and many comrades" - the plural of Kamerad which also completes the rhyme and meter scheme)

    Morgen in dER kuehle Grabe. (Grabe is feminine, in takes the dative, the dative of die is der and Grabe ends with an e)


09 Jul 04 - 06:15 PM (#1222596)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: Rapparee

Which Heinlein book was this in? I thought I'd read them all and I don't remember the discussion.


09 Jul 04 - 07:55 PM (#1222635)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: mack/misophist

I think it was The Door Into Summer. The characters in the discussion are a young girl, the protagonist, and a Hungarian, possibly a fencing instructor. It wasn't so much a 'discussion' as a reminisence of the campfire tunes they liked the best.


09 Jul 04 - 08:22 PM (#1222648)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: CET

The grammatical points mentioned by Gpenny make sense (based on my memories of high school German), but the website they're taken from is German. Wolfgang: comments?

I always have difficulty connecting a midi tune I'm listening to with the lyrics I'm looking at on the screen. Does anybody know of a good recording? This reminds me of an earlier discussion about German folk songs, particularly soldier songs, and how some of them have unpleasant associations for Germans today. Would this song be one like that?

Edmund


10 Jul 04 - 12:03 AM (#1222715)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: mack/misophist

As I understand it, German grammar was standardized by the Nazis well after this was written. Also, a German friend tells me that Berliners are laughed at all over Germany because they can't speak gramatically; something about the dative case. And poetry is often idiosyncratic.


10 Jul 04 - 12:31 PM (#1222905)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: Wolfgang

No, both lines are correct. It is 'das Grab' here (the grave).
Dative form would be 'in dem Grab(e)'. That could make semantically sense here, but the meter requires 'in das Grab'.

The difference is like: 'tomorrow (I shall lie) in the grave' or 'tomorrow (I shall come) into the grave.

The same reason (meter) requires the singular of 'Kamerad'. 'Ich und manche Kameraden' is perfect German, but the song has the singular 'Ich und mancher Kamerad'.

The dative form in German is very bothersome, even to many students. Just a graffitto for the advanced German speakers about that:

Rettet dem Dativ.

Wolfgang


14 Aug 04 - 06:55 PM (#1247762)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: CET

I did a Google search for Reiters Morgenlied and the only recording I could find was on a CD by the Copenhagen University Students Choir. Does anybody know of another one? Would somebody who has the sheet music be willing to send me a copy?

Edmund


14 Aug 04 - 07:14 PM (#1247769)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: Wolfgang

I guess I have it, but I won't find out before next week. I'll mark this thread and will come back with or without success.

Wolfgang


23 Aug 04 - 06:42 AM (#1254350)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: GUEST,Wolfgang

Edmund,

I have one version with the notes (just the melody line). (1) PM me your snail mail address and I'll send a xerox to you or (2) PM me your mail address and I'll try to send it as my scanner sees it. (PM is fine, when you read this, I'll have restored my cookie)

When looking through my books I have found loads of parodies to this song. It must have been a favourite among German soldiers to change the lyrics to less patriot lines. I'll post a few of them here tomorrow..

Wolfgang


24 Aug 04 - 04:13 PM (#1255556)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: Wolfgang

Some bites from the many parodies:

Morgenrot, Morgenrot,
jetzt ist zu End' die Kohlennot
Als wir hatten nichts zu schüren,
taten wir uns die Fuumlss er----wärmen
ich und mancher Kamerad.

Morgenrot, Morgenrot,
die Deutschen sind jetzt in der Not.
Auch das ist 'ne Frucht 'ne feine,
früher habne's kriegt die Sch------eren Reiter
Deutschland Deutschland über alles.

Morgenrot, Morgenrot,
Gott sei Dank, der Krieg ist tot,
ein Jahr länger und in Preussen
konnten wir vor Hunger kaum noch ------gerade steh'n.
Großer Gott, wir loben Dich.

Morgenrot, Morgenrot,
Wilhelm leidet grosse Not.
Ging nach Holland ganz alleine
Denn man bracht ihn auf die -------Eisenbahn.
Leb denn wohl Du stilles Haus.


And many more verses...

Wolfgang


07 Apr 08 - 08:22 PM (#2309642)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: GUEST,thr0back

my missouri volunteers of woldemar fischer's all-german st. louis flying artillery company sang morgenrot (and herr von finkelstein) on board the dampfboot "amaranth" on june 24, 1846, as they sailed upriver to fort leavenworth and a year with kearny's army of the west in new mexico.


07 Apr 08 - 10:43 PM (#2309726)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)

Wolfgang, could you please comment on the song, "Dem Morgenrot entgegen ," -"Socialistisches Arbeiterlied aus Weimarer Republic..."
On youtube.com.
Dem Morgenrot engegen

Hope that link is correct. Is this also a parody of the old song?


08 Apr 08 - 03:11 PM (#2310416)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: Gulliver

Q, that link generates an error message from YouTube. Would it be caused by a "/" in the URL?


08 Apr 08 - 05:45 PM (#2310569)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)

The link generates youtube.com. Enter Morgenrot in the Search blank and scroll down to "Dem Morgenrot entgegen."


09 Apr 08 - 11:16 AM (#2311123)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: Gulliver

Q, I took a look--both songs seem completely different. The melody of Dem Morgenrot Entgegen is based on an older song "Zu Mantua in Banden". It was written by Heinrich Eildermann (he used a pseudonym) in 1907, a teacher who was sacked for his political views around that time. His song became popular among left-wing groups internationally. He later joined the KPD and was imprisoned from the late 1930s till 1945, but unlike many of his comrades survived and became a lecturer in Social Studies at the University of Dresden. He died in 1955. Unfortunately a Fascist anti-semitic version of his song was produced (don't know when or by whom) by right-wingers.   Don


09 Apr 08 - 12:59 PM (#2311224)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)

Gulliver, thanks for the explanation.
The tune is an easy one to remember and to sing; I will have to look up "Zu Mantua in Banden."


09 Apr 08 - 01:46 PM (#2311275)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: Ernest

Q, words are here:

Lyrics to "Zu Mantua in Banden"

The song is about Andreas Hofer, who led the rising against Napoleon in Southern Tirol.

wikipedia article on Andreas Hofer

Best wishes
Ernest


11 Apr 08 - 09:21 AM (#2312886)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: GUEST,Guennhafyr

One source I came across claimed the original song dated back to the 100 years war. Any verification?


15 Apr 08 - 12:25 PM (#2316311)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: Wolfgang

Q, all the serious responses to your question have already been given.
So, just to add a less serious remark:

For several years, it was forbidden in Tyrol to sing "Dem Morgenrot entgegen". Not because of its communist content, but because it was forbidden by law to to use the tune to the Andreas-Hofer Lied (Zu Mantua in Banden) with any other lyrics (it became the official hymn of Tyrol in 1948). It was never fully clear whether the law could apply to serious songs written to that tune long before the law existed.

Anyway, this law has been softened in 2004 and now only applies if the rendering of a parody or another song using that tune shows a "lack of respect" towards the hymn. So "Dem Morgenrot entgegen" can now be sung safely also in Tyrol.

Wolfgang (wondering if singing the old folksong "Der Abenteurer" might be forbidden in Germany)


16 Apr 08 - 12:07 PM (#2317358)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)

The subject of banned songs is an interesting and complex one. Thanks, Wolfgang.
Do you have the lyrics or are they on the internet?


16 Apr 08 - 01:48 PM (#2317439)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: Wolfgang

Dem Morgenrot entgegen

Der Abenteurer

Zu Mantua in Banden

Q, I thought you meant "Der Abenteurer" but just in case I've linked the other ones as well.

The lyrics of Der Abenteurer are completely innocent, but even humming or whistling or playing the tune is forbidden in Germany (and Austria) since 1945. The information on Frank's site about the opera origin of the tune is wrong.

Wolfgang


16 Apr 08 - 02:36 PM (#2317490)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)

Thanks, Wolfgang.


16 Apr 08 - 11:22 PM (#2317915)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: Gulliver

I don't believe that "Dem Morgenrot Entgegen" can be sung safely in Tyrol. There have been a number of reports of travellers, innocently singing this song while climbing crags or abseiling from a few rocks, being menaced by locals in strange uniforms and pointy hats. Naive tourists humming or whistling the tune through a village noticed Knudeln descending on their heads from open windows. Worst of all was the experience of a group of Italian tourists passing through the Tyrol on Tyrolean Independence Day, who jokingly tried to sing an Italian version of this song, and were heavily pounded with hot Pfannkuchenteig and then Holunderblüten-Pfannkuchen, rounded off with a mess of Weißbrotscheiben that completely spoiled their appetite. Travellers beware!


06 Apr 14 - 04:10 PM (#3616190)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Cavalry Song 'Morgen Rot'
From: GUEST,crazyeddie

Was looking for information on this song myself. It was mentioned/quoted in Poul Anderson's Star Fox, not in any of Heinlein's works. (Heinlein and Anderson are similar writers, so it's easy to get them confused.)