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30 Jun 04 - 08:28 AM (#1216916) Subject: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Steve Parkes I got the new Radio Times home last night and went through the radio pages, as is my wont. Next Wednesday (7 July, Radio 2 8.00) Mike Harding's guest is Billy Connolly, and a RT reviewer named Jane Anderson wrote "His stories make him unmissable ... even if you loathe the folk music he chooses" (my italics). "Loathe"? I can accept that a lot of people find Connolly entertaining without liking folk, but why this gratuitious and gross insult? A lot of people don't like classical music, or jazz, or easy listening, or any other kind you can think of; but no-one would expect to read in a well-resepcted national magazine like RT the sugestion that it's considered normal for many people to loathe any style of music -- especially one that is so widely supported in all its many different forms. Write them a stroppy letter, or send them a stroppy email, like I did (radio.times@bbc.co.uk) It's not as if the BBC do much for folk anyway, is it? Steve |
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30 Jun 04 - 08:39 AM (#1216925) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: GUEST,Sooz (at work) I loathe the bad language he uses. Otherwise the comments seem just about par for the course! |
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30 Jun 04 - 08:54 AM (#1216934) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: greg stephens Folk music has a huge ability to inspire love....and hate. Strange, isnt it? Just think of it as showing how powerful the music is, and then you'll be more relaxed about these crass remarks, made by morons with one brain cell who enjoy unnatural relations with animals and whose idea of good music is probably the Cheeky Girls. |
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30 Jun 04 - 09:20 AM (#1216954) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: wysiwyg Are they dissing Folk itself or his choice of material? ~S~ |
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30 Jun 04 - 09:56 AM (#1216969) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Steve Parkes Don't know, Susan; I quoted the offensive line verbatim. I take your point, Sooz; some people talk like that quite naturally, but than again some of us don't! Greg: I'll grin and bear it, in the comforting knowledge that we're right and she's wrong! |
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30 Jun 04 - 09:57 AM (#1216973) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Big Mick Message sent, buddy. All the best, Mick |
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30 Jun 04 - 10:03 AM (#1216975) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: artbrooks I dunno...personally, I could loath most hip-hop or rap without too much trouble. I think I'm with Susan. |
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30 Jun 04 - 10:33 AM (#1217003) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Herga Kitty Well, we don't yet know what Billy chose.... but it sounds as though Jane Anderson is the person with the problem! I wonder how she'd cope with Late Junction at 10.15pm next Wednesday (Iranian kamancheh player with Kurdish singer, Italian viol player playing pieces by 17th C English composer, and Beausoleil from Louisiana playing Cajun!) Kitty |
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30 Jun 04 - 10:37 AM (#1217011) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: wysiwyg My point was, if she was dissing his particular music choices-- instead of the whole form of Folk-- I hope you don't alienate a potential supporter with the idea that on eperson recruited a forum of folkies to send hate mail! :~) ~Susan |
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30 Jun 04 - 11:08 AM (#1217055) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Big Mick I just received the following reply from Radio Times. They certainly answered quickly. I will let you judge the reply. Thank you for your email to Radio Times. Jane was referring to the particular music that Billy chose, not the genre itself as a whole. Regards Paul Cumiskey Radio Times Reader Services Tel: 0870 608 4455 Fax: 020 8433 3923 paul.cumiskey@bbc.co.uk www.radiotimes.co.uk |
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30 Jun 04 - 11:16 AM (#1217063) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: The Borchester Echo Now, if they'd said she was referring to the awfulness of that specific programme I think Jane Anderson might have had a point. The MH playlist is not published till shortly before air but if the quality of Billy Connolly's choices on Desert Island Discs is anything to go by, I'm inclined to agree with Kitty that it is the reviewer that has the problem. |
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30 Jun 04 - 11:25 AM (#1217070) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Steve Parkes Thanks Mick: at least you've had a reply, which is more than I have! Maybe I'd better listen to the show next week and see what she meant. Still ... |
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30 Jun 04 - 12:11 PM (#1217077) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Strollin' Johnny Sorry if I'm being a Contrary-Mary but I don't see anything wrong with Jane Anderson's comment. It wasn't a comment about the quality of folk music, it was just an acknowledgement that some people (and perhaps the majority) don't like it, and it's perfectly true. In the same way, there are groups of people who can't stand C&W (eh Sooz!), jazz, rap, classical, et al. That's not a judgment on the music, just a matter of whatever floats the individual's boat. And I agree with Sooz about the profanities. I have to tolerate foul-mouthed morons effin' and blindin' outside my office window all week, I certainly don't need it on me wireless or me telly. Johnny :0) |
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30 Jun 04 - 02:53 PM (#1217200) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Herga Kitty No Johnny,no As I read it (in my copy of the Radio Times), the Radio Times quotation is about Billy's choice of music on the Mike Harding show, not about folk music in general. To be fair, it also says "There can't be many stars who, when they reflect upon their careers, think "Oh God I'm glad I sat in the bedroom with a banjo". Mike Harding's programme (whatever its shortcomings)is (according to the Radio Times) a folk, roots and acoustic based music show. Jane Anderson isn't claiming to have any knowledge, understanding or backround in any of these genres, so why is she badmouthing the material that Billy chose? We'll find out on 7 July. Kitty |
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30 Jun 04 - 05:32 PM (#1217307) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Rasener I like Billy Connolly as a comedian. I take him the way he is. Language an all. That doesn't mean that I go round giving out foul language. I don't consider him as anything to do with Folk Music. "even if you loathe the folk music he chooses" Surely that is implying that his choice of folk music isn't that good. I don't percieve it to mean that folk music is crap. Are some people reading too much into it? |
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30 Jun 04 - 05:45 PM (#1217316) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: The Borchester Echo I don't consider him as anything to do with Folk Music Blimey! Even Mike Harding tonight remembered that he was once half of the Humblebums. He's a very fine banjo player. |
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30 Jun 04 - 05:49 PM (#1217319) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Rasener That may be the case, but I still see him as a comedian. I like his sense of humour, but I never really consider him as a folk artist. |
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30 Jun 04 - 05:50 PM (#1217321) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Ed. Are some people reading too much into it? Undoubtedly! No offense intentened, but some of the posts in this thread should only be worthy of 5 year olds... |
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30 Jun 04 - 05:55 PM (#1217325) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Rasener Well said ther Ed |
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30 Jun 04 - 06:03 PM (#1217327) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: The Borchester Echo At one time he worked as a welder in the Clyde shipyards alongside the late Bobby Campbell, the fiddler, and Gus Macdonald (really). In the mid 1960s he was involved in an amazingly popular and really rough dive of an all-nighter club above a Glasgow cinema. This was before going on the road with Gerry Rafferty. Oh, he's got credentials... |
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30 Jun 04 - 06:13 PM (#1217337) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Rasener Not looking for an argument. I stand by my comments that I see him as a comedian. You might see him as something else. That is your right. |
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30 Jun 04 - 06:24 PM (#1217343) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: The Borchester Echo No-one sees Barbara Dickson either as a singer of traditional songs nowadays. But it's still sure as hell where she started. Billy Connolly only became a comedian when the jokes were taking up most of his sets, leaving hardly any time for songs. |
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30 Jun 04 - 06:36 PM (#1217348) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: akenaton Yeah..Billy and Tam Harvey were regulars at our club when they were starting out. Tam was the music man....Billy couldn't wait to get started with the patter. They were known as the Humblebums later ,then joined by Gerry,who changed their direction. Before Gerry arrived they did a lot of Bluegrass and comedy stuff.Gerry was the real mccoy. Hearing his songs for the first time was mind blowing. I always thought Gerrys solo records were "over produced". To me he was more effective with just the guitar...Ake |
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30 Jun 04 - 10:39 PM (#1217418) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Bert Yes he's a great comedian but an even better singer/songwriter. His version of Two Little Boys is fantastic. |
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01 Jul 04 - 12:00 AM (#1217453) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Seamus Kennedy He also played in chain of Irish Pubs here in Massachusetts called The Harp & Bard around '69 or '70, along with Hamish Imlach, the Sands Family, Bill Barclay and quite few other fine performers. Billy was more than capable of holding his own on banjo & guitar & singing with the others. He's a legit musician who went to the comedy side. Which brings me to a pet theory of mine (probably worthy of its own thread).... Many great comedians started out as musicians.They retained their musical skills but went with the comedy as their career. Bill Connolly, Steve Martin, Victor Borge, Jack benny, Henny Youngman to name a few. Dermot Morgan (the late Father Ted) was a fine guitarist and singer. Why do musicians make good comedians? Seamus |
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01 Jul 04 - 03:57 AM (#1217530) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Fossil Good point, Seamus. I well remember going to the Boggery Folk Club in Solihull in the '60's to listen to a fine guitar player and singer. Later he became slightly famous as Jasper Carrott. Another one for the list. |
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01 Jul 04 - 04:16 AM (#1217539) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Steve Parkes I admit I did wonder whether I'd misinterpreted Anderson's meaning; but she wrote "even if you loathe the folk music he chooses", not "even if you loathe his choice of folk music": diferent emphasis, you see. And "loathe" is such a strong word: "dislike" would be adequate to convery the meaning without the emotive undertone. When you're limited to a few dozen words (a third of a sidebar on a page of radio listings), you should choose them with care. Steve PS You can add Mike Harding to that list too! |
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01 Jul 04 - 09:26 AM (#1217602) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: GUEST,Roger the Skiffler This from AOL News on latest UK Big Brother series:Earlier yesterday they succeeded in the final stage of the Glastonbury task - a "folk off" contest in which they had to compose and perform folk songs. Dressed in Arran jumpers and fake beards, they split into two teams and sang their songs accompanied by a guitar and a tambourine. So no tereotyping there either! RtS (Glad I don't watch BB!) |
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01 Jul 04 - 10:59 AM (#1217627) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Steve Parkes A guitar, eh? Not real folk songs, then! |
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01 Jul 04 - 11:12 AM (#1217639) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: DMcG Pity none of them had the knowledge or wit to sing something like 'Henry Martin'. That would have baffled the nation! (A dedicated non-watcher of all BB-like series) |
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01 Jul 04 - 11:26 AM (#1217651) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: GUEST,Penguin Egg The only person I know in my circle who likes folk music is me and my mate Les, and he is a folk musician. Folk music, sadly, is not well liked. |
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01 Jul 04 - 11:37 AM (#1217655) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: GUEST,Raggytash "even if you loathe the folk music he chooses" That is not to say the reviewer loathes folk music, just the stuff that is played on Radio Two. I have a certain sympathy with this sentiment in as much as many of the people I enjoy listening to, rarely if ever, get air time on Mike Harding's programme. When was the last time you heard Duncan McFarelane, Anthony John Clarke, Harvey Andrews or Eric Bogle. I do not tune in very often now so things may have changed, but from the little I do hear I think not. |
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01 Jul 04 - 12:49 PM (#1217710) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Richard Bridge Music - comedy - ? Timing! |
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01 Jul 04 - 04:03 PM (#1217855) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: M.Ted Webster's 1913 Dictionary Loath´ing n. 1. Extreme disgust; a feeling of aversion, nausea, abhorrence, or detestation. This is not a word that would usually be used in a music review or discussion, because playing music does not really evoke any of these things--it is hyperbole, and it's use would suggest an intent to insult, bellittle, and denigrate the performers work. |
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01 Jul 04 - 04:58 PM (#1217885) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Herga Kitty Raggy I don't listen every week but I think Mike Harding has acknowledged Eric Bogle and Harvey Andrews from time to time. I don't think he's registered Duncan McFarlane or AJC though. Re earlier posts - there was something of a north-south divide between singer/ songwriters / guitarists who played working men's clubs and who developed (or had to develop) great patter as well as musicianship and deal with PA equipment, and the much more laid-back acoustic clubs in East Anglia and the south. Kitty |
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01 Jul 04 - 07:47 PM (#1217957) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Q (Frank Staplin) Well, lets have the list of selections. Then we could vote: Loud applause, ho hum, and LOATHE. On second thought, forget it. I agree with M Ted- loathe is one of those put-down words. |
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02 Jul 04 - 06:16 AM (#1218198) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: GUEST,Mekon I loathe the lack of proper English. What is a DIS anyway? |
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02 Jul 04 - 06:40 AM (#1218216) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Steve Parkes An American solecism, O Mighty Ruler Of The Universe. Maybe you can eradicate it with your death rays? |
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02 Jul 04 - 08:34 AM (#1218270) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Strollin' Johnny And I still say, to those of you whose comprehension of English isn't up to scratch, that 'Even if you loathe the folk music he chooses' is not a judgmental statement about folk music, just an acknowledgement that folk music is loathed by some people - a statement which is absolutely accurate. I've had major bollockings on some of the political threads for 'adding value' to other people's statements, i.e. reading into them something that's not there, and that's what some of you are doing here. Brush up on your English Comprehension and/or grow a skin! :0) And Billy is a comedian. He is no longer a folk artist. Whatever he may have been, he no longer is. He does a stand-up comedy routine, he doesn't perform folk songs. When I was eleven I used to sing in a choir as a boy-soprano, but I don't claim to be one now, and I bet Billy no longer claims to be a folk singer (if indeed he ever did). |
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08 Jul 04 - 07:00 AM (#1221223) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: The Borchester Echo So, last night's playlist od Billy Connolly's choices is at last published. Who thinks the Radio Times was justified in rubbishing it? Title: Empty Pocket Blues Artist: The Incredible String Band Album: The Incredible String Band Label: Elektra 7559-61547-2 Title: The Coo Coo Bird Artist: Clarence Ashley Album: Anthology of American Folk Music Volume 3: Songs Label: Smithsonian Folkways SFW 40090/A 28750 Title: Strolling Down The Highway Artist: Bert Jansch Album: Bert Jansch Label: Transatlantic Records/Castle Music CMRCD204 Title: Sule Skerry Artist: Barbara Dickson Album: Parcel Of Rogues Label: Castle Communications CTV CD 126 Title: The Freedom Come-All-Ye Artist: Dick Gaughan Album: Sail On Label: Greentrax CDTRAX109 Title: Margaret's Waltz Artist: Aly Bain Album: First Album: Label:: Whirlie Records Whirlie CD1 Title: Hopping Down in Kent Artist: The Albion Dance Band Album: The Prospect Before Us Label: Harvest 077 7 81428 2 9 Title: Cam Ye O'er Frae France Artist: Steeleye Span Album: Original Masters Label: BGO Records BGOCD322 |
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08 Jul 04 - 07:17 AM (#1221228) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: mooman Sounds like a decent selection to me Countess...! Peace moo |
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08 Jul 04 - 07:48 AM (#1221250) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: greg stephens De gustibus non disputandum est Chacun ses gouts There's no accounting for taste This saying has been knocking about very wisely, probably in all cultures, for thousands of years. Yet we still argue about preferences and get angry with other people's tastes. Strange, isnt it? |
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08 Jul 04 - 08:43 AM (#1221294) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: GUEST,DMcF Och, it's real nice of Raggy and Kitty to be hankerin' after airplay on my behalf (amongst others). Poor Mike Harding seems to get it in the neck for his playlist quite a lot - both here and on other similar message boards. In his defence, I must say, he has a pretty impossible task to satisfy 'the folk public' given that there are SO many facets to the genre - so many styles all collecting under that vague umbrella. Whatever gets played stands a chance of alienating a different set of 'folk'. But, for information purposes y'understand, I should point out that MH has indeed played a track from my solo CD 'Bed of Straw' (only last year) - right next to 'Little Pot Stove' by Nic Jones - which still has me glowing now - to be 'aired' alongside my hero!! So, if he 'got round to' playing this local artist and his 'own label' CD, there's hope for everyone that'd like to be on the show. At least we still have a toe-hold on a national radio station. We here in Yorkshire lost our local BBC folk prog (still outraged at the loss of dear Henry Ayrton!) We DO though, have the marvellous Tim Moon transmitting out of Bradford - thankfully! ALL the possible outlets have to be treasured and supported surely? Yes, there are plenty of people that say they don't like 'folk' (Guinness springs to mind here) - let's give 'em the chance to hear it though. - Hugs - Duncan |
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08 Jul 04 - 10:06 AM (#1221355) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Steve Parkes Thanks for the playlist, countess richard. I only heard the first two, owing to weather problems. I will happily accept that the Increds and Clarence Ashley could be a bit unusual for first-time listeners, but even my saxophone-playing brother couldn't find fault with anything there. I see Radio Times didn't print my letter ... next week, maybe? |
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08 Jul 04 - 12:03 PM (#1221426) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: GUEST,Jon Wow, even one of my favourites in his "bad choices". I love Margaret's Waltz. |
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08 Jul 04 - 12:36 PM (#1221457) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: GUEST, Mikefule Whoah! Inappropriate semantic analysis! We live in an age when the BBC's transport correspondent ALWAYS says that a road is blocked due to "an earlier accident" (rather than one that is expected to happen later) Even respected broadcasters use "target" as a verb, not only in the sense of "making something into a target", but also as a synonym for "aim". Every fire is a "blaze", every death is a "tragedy", everyone who has been on TV once before is a "celebrity". By extrapolation, the modern media's concept of "loath" means (in old money) "mildly dislike". In this context, perhaps it is inappropriate to worry about whether a presenter meant "Even if you loath all folk music, which is what this chap chooses," or, "Even if you like folk music, but you loathe this chap's particular choice of material." And it is fair to say that most people (er... folk) dislike what they perceive to be "folk music", much as many self-professed folkies would dislike exactly the same material - badly sung versions of "The Wild Rover", "All Around My Hat" and "Day Trip to Bangor". So, perhaps this presenter meant, "You may not be keen on folk music per se, but this programme's still worth watching." Part of the stereotype of folkies is that they are humourless. A sense of humour is the ability to laugh at one's self. |
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08 Jul 04 - 02:35 PM (#1221559) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Nemesis Ditto basically what's said above ... and irrespective of what the reviewer wrote, a sub-editor has chopped it up and changed to fit on the page. I mean, blimey, chaps, how many club organiser among us sends carefully-worded press releases to the local papers - only to have them reduced to meaninglessness by Subs? Hil xx |
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08 Jul 04 - 03:06 PM (#1221579) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: M.Ted Every fire *is* ablaze- |
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09 Jul 04 - 05:11 AM (#1222005) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: GUEST And every death is a tragedy to someone. |
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09 Jul 04 - 05:44 AM (#1222027) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Shula Dear Folks, Can anyone provide examples of the sorts of selections Mr. Connolly has chosen to present, so we may judge for ourselves the merits of those selections? Thank you. Shula |
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09 Jul 04 - 05:48 AM (#1222030) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Ragman I listened to the first half of the programme on the way to a folk session, and thorougly enjoyed it. Billy, as his wont, talked a little too much, and some of the stories were not quite as I remember them, but his love for the music clearly came across, and I thought the music was great. Not many people credit Billy Connolly for his own song writing either, and I think it's a shame. He has written some great lyrics in his time. I think many people have unfairly categorised Billy as a duff musician, either because they don't like the particular brand of music he did/does, or more likely because they think they can make cheap points in an article and dont have the manners to research the subject properly or try to understand what makes the music good for him and others. |
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09 Jul 04 - 05:56 AM (#1222035) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: ThreeSheds Well I enjoyed the programme What made such a refreshing change was that the music played wasn't all heralded as " my all time favourite" or was the most blindingly obvious choice But best of all MH barely got a word in |
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09 Jul 04 - 06:22 AM (#1222048) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: GUEST,Zebedee Tring Shula - It's so nice to hear from you since your departure from Borchester. You can listen to Billy Connolly's selection here on Radio 2's listen again untill Wednesday 14th July |
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09 Jul 04 - 06:33 AM (#1222056) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Shula Dear GUEST,Zebedee Tring, Never having been to Borchester, I must confess that I am not THAT Shula. Sorry to disappoint, Shula |
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09 Jul 04 - 06:39 AM (#1222062) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: GUEST,Zebedee Tring Bugger! |
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09 Jul 04 - 07:45 AM (#1222092) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Shula Dear Mr. Tring, While I am not THAT Shula, and your disappointment is understandably keen, you might have been just a trifle kindlier in your greeting. I haven't posted much in several years, but I had hoped at least a few folks might remember me in somewhat less hostile terms. Shula (of old) |
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09 Jul 04 - 07:59 AM (#1222104) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: GUEST,Zebedee Tring Custard, jelly, fruit cocktail, cream. Is that a trifle kindlier? |
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09 Jul 04 - 08:16 AM (#1222115) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: GUEST << Every death is a tragedy to someone >> (posted earlier on this thread.) No, my point was that "tragedy" is an oversued word, and used without thought for its special meaning. As a synonym for "incident in which someone dies" it is a wasted word. A tragedy is something which ends in death (or failure), and has a certain inevitability to it. The death (or failure) arises from an act by the person much earlier, or from a flaw in their character or conduct. It is a powerful dramatic form. In this sense of the word, the downfall of Thatcher was a tragedy - she was brought down by the enemies in her own party that she had made along the way, and with the self confidence and self belief that brought her to power turning into arrogance and a belief in her own myth. However, in the weaker sense of the word, as used by most newspapers, few of us would call her downfall a "tragedy". :0D Conversely, the death of John Smith was a "tragedy" in the weaker "media" sense of the word, but not in the dramatic sense. |
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09 Jul 04 - 08:17 AM (#1222118) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: GUEST, Mikefule Ooops! Dunnit again. Forgot to fill in the "from" box. That last post was from me. |
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09 Jul 04 - 09:34 AM (#1222171) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: JudeL When Billy Connolly did his "Tour Round" series in Ireland he was shown joining other musicians in "folk" pub sessions. He appeared to be thoroughly enjoying himself & sounded good. It may not now be what he does to earn his living and I accept that it is not what he is most famous for , but does that make him any less a "folkie" ? |
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09 Jul 04 - 12:17 PM (#1222357) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Shula Dear Mr. Tring, Haven't you forgotten the ladyfingers? We should have thought of having a trifle when we were providing virtual vittles at the song circles. I fancy a trifle now you mention it. You might want to serve it with a nice Darjeeling. Happy thought, that. Shula |
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09 Jul 04 - 04:03 PM (#1222513) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Ed. I'd like to say a big 'thank you' to Jane Anderson (The Radio Times reviewer). Without her 'loathing' Billy's choices, Steve wouldn't have started this thread, and I'd have missed an excellent programme, which I enjoyed very much. As mentioned above, it's still available (for the next few days) at the BBC site |
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09 Jul 04 - 08:08 PM (#1222644) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Pete_Standing John Smith's death was a tragedy. We might have still had a Labour Party. I'm not a huge fan of the MH prog, but I "listened again" and thought it a good broadcast - apart from the absurd comments about women can't do morris. We're in the 21st century Billy! The Radio Times (and Beeb) has been in decline for years. Does Clive Doig still do his puzzles? |
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09 Jul 04 - 08:34 PM (#1222653) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Compton If an Englishman was here, He would have her lashed like a cur!! |
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10 Jul 04 - 07:30 AM (#1222802) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: GUEST Fossil remembers Jasper Carrot as a singer guitarist. I remember him as a folkies' agent, which he primarily was. I remember Mike Harding as a folkie, who disintegrated into something not easily categorised. I remember Billy Connolly as a folkie, which for my money he still is. He may have drifted into comedy, but folklore and story-telling are big elements of his act. Villan may not be old enough to have seen him at the Bishop Grosseteste college, Lincoln (UK), in 1968 or 69, then partnered by Tam Harvey. (Gerry Rafferty came later, as Akenaton pointed out.) No-one who was there will have forgotten that night nor would question Billy Connolly's folk credentials. I made a point of seeing the Humblebums several times thereafter, and much as Billy liked to natter, his musicianship was beyond doubt. I am reassured to hear that others are unhappy with Mike Harding's playlists. One trait which seems inexplicable to me is that whenever he plays something from a particular album, it's nearly always the same track - as, for instance, with the new Waterson-McCarthy album he's been playing from recently. |
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11 Jul 04 - 03:22 AM (#1223176) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Roger the Skiffler Another stereotype: in yesterday's Guardian listings section: Jade the Folk singer. Lowdown at the Albany, London W1, Monday. Can't stand chunky sandals or cheesecloth shirts? Then you'll adore Sarah Adams' spoof folk singer, with her right-on songs about whales and dolphins. Don't all rush, there'll be room for all! RtS |
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11 Jul 04 - 09:42 PM (#1223531) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Big Al Whittle oh come on let's loathe his taste in music, BC's got loads of money - he won't give a stuff..... |
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27 Jul 04 - 07:50 AM (#1234650) Subject: Update: Radio Times 31/7-6/8 From: Steve Parkes I see Ms Anderson has written in the Radio Times of the Cambridge Folk Festival (BBC Radio 2, next Saturday 9 pm). Good to see she keeps up with world opinion, for she writes: It is with some trepidation that I write this preview, for the last time I mentioned folk music in these columns a folk-lover's internet chat room [she means us!] became so enflamed [sic] by my comments that one of their number decried me as a follower of the Cheeky Girls (among other things). To set the record straight, I own nothing by the Cheeky Girls but am in possession of albums by Jimmy Cliff, the Divine Comedy and the Levellers, all of whom are on this programme of highlights. I do not, however, care for men with beards. So we'm in with a chance, then, Roger...! Steve |
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27 Jul 04 - 08:19 AM (#1234659) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Folkien Ah, the power of Mudcat! Jimmy Cliff, the Devine Comedy, the Levellers. Folk? Hmmm. I think Cambridge has lost it's folk credentials just a little bit, which will suit Ms Anderson down to the ground. This woman is beardist and needs to atone for her crime by doing community service with a morris side. |
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27 Jul 04 - 08:22 AM (#1234660) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Strollin' Johnny AHA!!!! Now comes the REAL insult - it's not the music, it's the beards she's not woman enough to handle! LMAO! |
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27 Jul 04 - 08:30 AM (#1234665) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: DMcG You can't be absolutely sure - it may be she quite likes beards on their own ... |
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27 Jul 04 - 08:36 AM (#1234667) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: The Shambles There maybe some hope................ From The Radio Times for Monday 26th July. TV Insider page 74. Sharp practice She's presented a huge variety of music on Radio 3 and BBC4, but now Verity Sharp makes her debut a a live TV presenter on Proms On Four:Elgar's Third Symphony (7.30pm BBC4). "It's daunting in the way that anything new is, but I love doing live radio and I'm hoping it'll be a buzz," she says. Tonight's programme, featuring three English composers (out of four), ties in with this year's English theme. "It's a great prom to start with because I've just taken up the fiddle and I'm learning to play English traditional music." Sharp, a one-time cellist, joined Radio 3 in 1992 in preference to becoming a professional musician. "You can't take a cello around with you and start playing in a pub," says Sharp. "With a fiddle you can meet people and simply play tunes together." |
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27 Jul 04 - 08:46 AM (#1234675) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: el ted I read "nuts" myself, you get all the programme listings, it's funny, and it tends to feature young ladies without a lot of clothing on. Far better than The Radio Times. |
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27 Jul 04 - 08:54 AM (#1234680) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: The Shambles There was a photo of the rather attractive Verity Sharp. |
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27 Jul 04 - 10:09 AM (#1234749) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Big Mick Lest she think that no one is left who remembers, I am tickled beyond words to see Mudcat's own Shula back in these precincts. She was posting but sparingly when I came here, but I went back and read those charming early threads. Great to see you here once more, Shula. Mick |
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28 Jul 04 - 02:01 AM (#1235334) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: alison lovely to see you back Shula, we had some good if very fattening song circles the last time you were around *grin* I hope you're keeping well slainte alison |
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28 Jul 04 - 03:37 AM (#1235350) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Roger the Skiffler ...and she probably thinks alll blues fans are overweight middle-aged men in black t-shirts drinking beer...(Oh, bugger, I've just looked in the mirror, she's right!) RtS |
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28 Jul 04 - 03:44 AM (#1235352) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Steve Parkes I'm a Villa man myself, Roger! |
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28 Jul 04 - 04:19 AM (#1235369) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: AllanW I remember we used to run a folk club in Doncaster at the Corporation Brewery Taps in the 1980s, and we ran it on alternate Tuesdays, the other week being the Train Spotting Club. We took the piss out of them, and I'm sure they took the piss out of us. The idea is not to lose any sleep over it. The only reason folkies are ridiculed is because some of us perpetuate the stereotype. If you go out and buy an anorak, thick-rimmed specs and binoculars and stand on Crewe Station, you're gonna get sniggers. If you turn up at a pub with an unkempt beard and sweater and insist on your own mug and pretend you knew Cecil Sharp personally, well prepare yourself for a ribbing from those in the bar. |
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28 Jul 04 - 06:36 AM (#1235407) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: The Shambles I have been thinking. Perhaps there is no hope if presenting the proms on TV (even if it is only BBC4) is thought in BBC circles to be promotion, from presenting roots and folk music on Radio 3? How long will it be before young Verity forgets about expressing dangerous views like enjoying and even taking part in English traditional music sessions. The BBC4 TV coverage of the proms is good. Apart from the BBC's obsession with getting as many presenters in as possible, as if the music was less important. They just show the whole piece of music. Now if only this could set the pattern for their coverage of other forms of music. The Cambridge Festival coverage is a joke. You have lots of presenters and lots of interviews but only snippets of music from selected acts all squeezed into a 30 minutes show and none of it live. I look forward to a Festival being staged, consisting entirely of presenters, presenting each other and of the BBC coverage of this event. Hold on a minute - I am describing the BBC's coverage of Glastonbury! |
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28 Jul 04 - 04:34 PM (#1235785) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: GUEST,eliza c interesting to see Sharon Shannon described as a singer in this week's Guardian Guide. x e |
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29 Jul 04 - 03:44 AM (#1236123) Subject: RE: Insult to Folk Music from Radio Times From: Steve Parkes Probably on advice from their legal department, Eliza! |