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24 Aug 04 - 06:34 PM (#1255706) Subject: Where are the anti war people? From: GUEST,peacemongering where are all of the peace mongers? I hear constantly from people on the left and hte middle voicing they're serious opposition to this war. The problem is I am not seeing much action. Only words. Why is that? Why are we not out in the streets screaming and fighting for this war to stop and our boys to come home? I see nothing. I hear nothing. Why is that? Are we so complacent now the war is in full swing that we feel nothing can be done? Are we so damn lazy? Why not a nationwide protest on 9/11? How can one get that organised? We must act not talk. |
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24 Aug 04 - 06:46 PM (#1255716) Subject: RE: Where are the anti war people? From: greg stephens BS please |
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25 Aug 04 - 12:27 AM (#1255948) Subject: RE: Where are the anti war people? From: Jim Dixon We demonstrated back in the spring of 2003 when we thought demonstrating might do some good. That wasn't an election year. It didn't stop the war, but it did help us organize some great networks of activists. Now we're concentrating on winning the next election. We're supporting candidates by donating money, leafleting, door-knocking, putting up lawn signs and so on. In case you haven't noticed, there are other offices besides the presidency up for grabs. Having the right people in Congress is just as important as electing the right president. There's lots of stuff to do, but demonstrating isn't high on our priority list right now. |
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25 Aug 04 - 12:38 AM (#1255953) Subject: RE: Where are the anti war people? From: Jack the Sailor Well said Jim! |
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25 Aug 04 - 04:53 AM (#1256033) Subject: RE: Where are the anti war people? From: GUEST,Jon The problem I have with Iraq is I don't know what should be done for the best. Another part of the BS is that rather than what the lying warmongers would have had us believe, it never was going to as simple as defeat Saddam, Iraquis would hail us as heroes and Iraq would instantly become a peaceful country with everyone living "happily ever after". We have created a mess that never should have been and I believe we have an obligation to do whatever we can to help resolve matters. A question though: Would we make matters better or worse if we pulled out now? I'd support what ever method would lead to the less bloodshed but I find it difficult to yell "troops out" when I can't convince myself that would be the best move at the present. |
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25 Aug 04 - 07:58 AM (#1256145) Subject: RE: Where are the anti war people? From: Dave the Gnome Smash violence! Kill the warmongers! Get your arse over here on Saturday, man, we're having a peace riot! Part of whose talking blues? I have heard it attributed to Fred Wedlock I don't realy know. Very apt all the same, and gives us a music connection:-) Cheers DtG |
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25 Aug 04 - 08:48 AM (#1256188) Subject: RE: Where are the anti war people? From: GUEST The left is populated now with comfortable, middle class, nice cowards. When this shit was happening under Nixon, we made the country ungovernable. When our children tried to do the same in Seattle and elsewhere in the anti-globalization wars, we betrayed them, stabbed them in the back, and demonized them for 'being violent'. We should be in the streets making this country ungovernable, ESPECIALLY in an election year. We should be in the streets everyday, to preserve our constitutionally guaranteed right to free assembly that is being chiseled away at by both Republicans AND DEMOCRATS. They built a jail right on the streets outside the convention halls to put political dissenters in!!! And those were the DEMOCRATS. Those who claim to be so opposed to Bush that they are rabidly supporting Kerry are hypocrites, and our youngest voters know this. It is going to take so much more than voting to rid the nation of these parasites--and the parasites are Republicans AND DEMOCRATS. The country and the planet will not be saved by progressives becoming right wing Republicans. THAT IS THE FAILED STRATEGY THAT THE MAJORITY IS SUPPORTING BECAUSE IT MAINTAINS THE STATUS QUO. |
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25 Aug 04 - 09:19 AM (#1256224) Subject: RE: Where are the anti war people? From: Bobert Hey, when A.N.S.W.E.R. makes the call, I'll be there, just as I have for most of the anit-wat rallies that have been stages in D.C. Until then, lots of people will just have to follow my Toyota down the road readinf various messages for peace on my collection od bumber stickers... Bobert |
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25 Aug 04 - 10:18 AM (#1256288) Subject: RE: Where are the anti war people? From: GUEST,8:48 am Hey Bobert, your mention of ANSWER made me smile. I was cleaning up my bookmark files the other day, and came across a folder I had titled 'Lukewarm Left opposition to ANSWER'. So I started reading this and it brought into much clearer focus for me how screwed we have been by the so-called peace movement. The middle class liberal peace movement demonized the leadership of ANSWER, which is much more militant and supportive of direct action (and much clearer on their political stands on issues, I might add) in order to the appease the Democrats, and co-opt any genuine and effective protest movement from growing out of opposition to the war that could cause the Democrats trouble in this year's election. As far as I'm concerned, Moveon.org can kiss my ass. The co-opting of the peace movement was extremely effective. They were able to take credit for ANSWER's organizing with international radicals, to get millions of people to feel good about themselves when they poured into the streets to protest the war, and then stand by helplessly wringing their hands while they watched the invasion on tv. The one thing the mainstream liberal peace movement is really good at is co-opting the radical left and maintaining the status quo by demonizing them. The one thing they really suck at, is stopping imperial wars, checking the powers of the global police state, stopping pollution, stopping hunger, stopping exploitation of people and the planet, that sort of thing. But they DO feel positive about themselves. |
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25 Aug 04 - 10:40 AM (#1256305) Subject: RE: Where are the anti war people? From: robomatic I think there is more than one reason. (US Only) There is a lot of obvious anti-war bias for suspect reasons, i.e. France and Russia, and the local anti-war folk don't want to be perceived as in their camp or subject to an 'I told you so' in French. A lot of people are in favor of the goals of the war, but making anti-war noises as the media try to convince us the 'coalition' is bogged down. So with every success tied to the Iraq war, this sort of protest is damped down in a hurry. As an example, without the Abu Ghraib scandal, there would be much less anti-war noise than there is now. And to my mind the main reason (in the US). Way different from the Vietnam situation THERE IS NO DRAFT. The huge protests against the Vietnam war were driven by youth who didn't want to serve, and their girlfriends and friends and parents who didn't want to lose them. Now we are dealing with a volunteer army. The core of this kind of resistance would come from the family of National Guards people who are facing extended service, and so far there is negligible resistance among them. Without citing sources, I have heard that in fact, with all the Vietnam demonstrations that went on in the 60's and 70's, a majority of Americans did in fact support the Vietnamese 'police action.' |
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25 Aug 04 - 10:51 AM (#1256321) Subject: RE: Where are the anti war people? From: Amos IF that were true, which I have no idea on, it is because of the STraw Demon of the Terrifying Domino Effect and the silly Commie Scare. Not because we should not have fought communism ideologically, mind you, but because ti is not what the civil war in Vietnam was actually about, I think. A |
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25 Aug 04 - 11:03 AM (#1256335) Subject: RE: Where are the anti war people? From: GUEST,8:48 am You have it pretty well sussed out I think, robomatic. It is true that the majority of Americans support any 'police actions' by their imperial government, just as the majority of the British citizenry supported it's imperial government's policies. People love to be on the winning team, and often will align themselves with the team, even at a very high cost to them personally. You can always buy the middle class and sucker them into co-opting and destroying the progressive movements of the day. Look how successfully the global corporate capitalists have effectively done that with nearly every progressive socialist movement in the world. It is also interesting that you bring up Vietnam. The Village Voice is currently running this article which is a descendant of the above article I linked to from a 2002 Mother Jones issue. It's another pathetic "demonize the radical left" sort of thing, that blames Nixon's electoral victory on the anti-war protestors, especially the Weather Underground, which is just plain revisionist history. The Weather Underground had nothing to do with organizing mass protests. But hey, let's not confuse anyone with the facts. I'm going to be very interested to see how the protests go in New York in the coming week. Every liberal mailing list I am on, is currently begging for money to buy protest ads in the NY Times. Now there is a blow against the empire, eh? |
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25 Aug 04 - 11:11 AM (#1256345) Subject: RE: Where are the anti war people? From: Once Famous Because it isn't 1970 any more, you silly old hippie. |
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25 Aug 04 - 11:17 AM (#1256353) Subject: RE: Where are the anti war people? From: GUEST BTW, the Village Voice writer has made a couple major errors of fact that any Chicagoan can recognize (New Yorkers really need to get out of the center of their own universe more). And then of course, the writer doesn't even mention Grant Park, which is where the protestors DID have a permit for, or the fact that the Chicago cops planned it that way because they could set up a perimeter easily, and move into the park quickly. In fact, based on this article, I'd have to say the writer got his information from someone at Moveon.org. who wasn't in Chicago in 1968, has never spoken to anyone who was in Chicago in 1968, has never read any history of what actually happened in Chicago in 1968, but has been entrusted by George Soros to run the pub for Moveon.org next week. |
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25 Aug 04 - 11:23 AM (#1256358) Subject: RE: Where are the anti war people? From: Once Famous I was there on the corner of Michigan and Balbo in August, 1968. It was a good life experience otherwise a total waste of time. |
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25 Aug 04 - 11:39 AM (#1256386) Subject: RE: Where are the anti war people? From: Jim Dixon The question was asked, "Where are the peacemongers?" and I did my best to answer the question. Now that I and my friends are being denounced as hypocrites, I'd like to know what the accusers are doing? Not what you did back in 1968, or what you think WE ought to be doing now, but WHAT ARE YOU DOING NOW? |
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25 Aug 04 - 12:02 PM (#1256406) Subject: RE: Where are the anti war people? From: GUEST Working for local candidates and issues, doing the same organizing work I always do, day in and day out, every day of every week of every year, largely ignoring this year's presidential campaign, and voting Green in November. Let me ask you this, Jim. What good are great networks of activists who can't accomplish any of it's goals and achieve nothing? Besides giving people a boost for their otherwise dull social lives, and lulling them into thinking the current electoral system actually works as it was intended? |
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25 Aug 04 - 12:08 PM (#1256412) Subject: RE: Where are the anti war people? From: Once Famous Actually, Jim Dixon, I'm watching you stroke your own ego spouting a bunch of crap here that maybe 10 people are paying any remote attention to. |
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25 Aug 04 - 04:24 PM (#1256650) Subject: RE: Where are the anti war people? From: robomatic Peace is over-rated. |
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25 Aug 04 - 06:29 PM (#1256799) Subject: RE: Where are the anti war people? From: Once Famous A piece of ass is not. |