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18 Oct 04 - 12:43 AM (#1299440) Subject: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Jack the Sailor I saw this on the Sojorners website. It really rang true with me and helped me with an issue of faith and fear that has been bothering me quite a bit. I sent them a donation by credit card. It the only political ad this year I could support in conscience. Thank God for Jim Wallis. The petition |
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18 Oct 04 - 12:48 AM (#1299441) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: katlaughing THANK YOU, JtS...that is a wonderful document! |
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18 Oct 04 - 03:29 AM (#1299486) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: dianavan WOW! There is hope! d |
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18 Oct 04 - 08:44 AM (#1299650) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: McGrath of Harlow Here's a link to the Sojourners site itself, - with an interesting article about Bruce Springsteen among other stuff. And a video of Jim Wallis talking to a conference (sound quality isn't great, but the content makes up for that. |
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18 Oct 04 - 09:01 AM (#1299663) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Mooh I've been following Sojo for a few years, usually online though another in the family subscribes or gets it passed around. The regular emailings are worth getting. My only complaint is the very USA oriented slant, but that's excusable considering its source and its issues, never mind the importance of what the USA is doing on an international level. I don't always agree with Sojo, but I agree that Sojo is one of the few places where CONSIDERED opinion rules. It's a good read. Subscribe to the emailings. Fwiw, I sincerely believe that the Shrub uses Christianity as a handle rather than a belief, and that he doesn't get the difference in his arrogant malevolence. The inclination among too may voters to treat the president as a deity only encourages his delusion. Peace, Mooh. |
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18 Oct 04 - 01:30 PM (#1299845) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: GUEST,Frank Jim Wallis is a breath of fresh air in a polluted political environment. Hope is on the way. Frank |
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18 Oct 04 - 02:33 PM (#1299933) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Jack the Sailor In the second debate, when he was answering the abortion question, Bush did something for his evangelical "base" that I was looking for and I have seen him do before. Have you seen that picture of him with the yellow halo? Head slight bowed down, microphone between his hands fingers straight as in Christian prayer? For half a second he posed like that. I tend to put him more in the category of "False Prophet" than sincere Christian. In fact I don't believe he is humble in his "faith" at all, and a Christain is. Maybe he just doesn't understand. Maybe he just learned enough Christainity to get by as he did with his MBA. He isn't intellectually curious. In any case, what I see from him is not very Christian. |
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18 Oct 04 - 02:51 PM (#1299955) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Greg F. Well, for that matter, "god" is neither a Christan or a Muslim- which is something the "christians" like Bush and Ashcroft, et.al., need pounded into their heads. |
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18 Oct 04 - 02:59 PM (#1299962) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: GUEST,peedeecee This will just curl your hair as an example of evil, manipulative blackmail: the Catholic Church has just excommunicated John Kerry and will probably include all pro-choice Democratic Party Catholics. http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=32830 The offical Vatican announcement is on the right side of this page: http://www.defide.com/ The key parts are at the end of it. This disgusting act is based purely on power. Perhaps Kerry should have gone after little boys instead: that act would have been covered up. Please remember that Kerry's perspective on abortion was that he was personally against it, but felt he could not impose his views on others who do not share them. |
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18 Oct 04 - 04:32 PM (#1299985) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Peace The question then is "Why does the Vatican want Bush elected?" This could have happened on November 4, 2004. Timing is everything, dontcha think? |
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18 Oct 04 - 04:43 PM (#1300000) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: GUEST,peedeecee (Blush.) The story turns out to be a maybe -- wait for verification from the mainstream media before passing it on, please. My unimpeachable source got it from the two sources that I linked above, but it turns out they may not be that reliable. Sorry I jumped the gun. But if it is true, yes, the timing IS the message. |
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18 Oct 04 - 04:46 PM (#1300005) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: McGrath of Harlow "...the Catholic Church has just excommunicated John Kerry" - no it hasn't, and the contents of that link don't actually say that. It's a partisan spin on a canon lawyer's interpretation of a more general position, and of the applicability of it in a particular case. No Bell, Book and Candle. The truth is, the Catholic Church is a lot less monolithic than people imagine. Kerry's position, as I understand it, is that while he believes that abortion is wrong, and that a choice to abort is a wrong choice, the constitutional position in the United States is that there is such a choice, and this should be respected. And that is a position which is perfectly consistent with Catholic teaching. There's a quote Jim Wallis in an article, tucked away inside that Sojourners link up the thread, which strikes me as relevant here (and don't anyone go pointing out Jim Wallis isn't a Catholic, because I know that): "I have clearly disagreed with the Democrats on abortion, believing that Christians can be both "progressive and pro-life." I've urged the Democrats to be much more respectful and welcoming of "pro-life Democrats." "Someday, a smart Democrat will figure out how both pro-choice and pro-life people could join together in concrete measures to dramatically reduce the abortion rate by focusing on teen pregnancy, adoption reform, and real support for low-income women. That would be so much better than both sides just using the issue as a political football and political litmus test during elections, and then doing little about it afterwards." |
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18 Oct 04 - 04:52 PM (#1300014) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Mrrzy Can't open the pdf of the first link? It hangs me up? |
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18 Oct 04 - 06:25 PM (#1300085) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Jack the Sailor Try this Mrrzy http://go.sojo.net/campaign/takebackourfaith |
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18 Oct 04 - 06:55 PM (#1300105) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: GUEST,peedeecee McGrath, you do realize that that canon lawyer has or is suing Kerry for heresy? (That makes me laugh uncontrollably, except it isn't actually funny.) |
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18 Oct 04 - 06:56 PM (#1300106) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: red_clay No...He is not and thankfully so! but He does decide who is elected through christians prayers and has done so since the beginning of time! from genisis to revelation,God and only God,chose the leader of every nation and did so by the prayers of his children! if you do not believe this,read the Bible and see for yourself! or,if you are too lazy or think that it's a fairy tale,then God will show you the truth at the great judgement day! i'd rather know now,because if you wait until then,it will be too late for all you doubters! |
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18 Oct 04 - 07:00 PM (#1300109) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: George Papavgeris Where are you GUEST, Old Guy? Tell us why the document is wrong. Produce hundreds of links to prove it, that we will never have the chance to look up. Where are you? |
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18 Oct 04 - 07:09 PM (#1300115) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Georgiansilver red clay....you will find that many people on here are not Christian and follow their own belief...whatever it is....reading the Bible may be totally alien to them and they have no recognition of your truth of 2004 years of what you believe. Yes if they read and studied the Bible then maybe they would learn something..... but.............. Best wishes, |
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18 Oct 04 - 07:16 PM (#1300121) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: McGrath of Harlow There's a Spanish proverb I like, which somehow seems appropriate: "God writes straight with crooked lines." |
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18 Oct 04 - 07:25 PM (#1300137) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: saulgoldie McGrath, Democrats are most often supporting all sorts of proven effective sex education and birth control programs that could obviate the need for many or most abortions. It is the organizations who call themselves "pro-life" (which is not actually the case for most of them) who OPPOSE these programs. The REAL agenda of those who call themselves "pro-life" is the reduction of the number of sex acts, and the control of women. I don't think Democrats have systematically pushed away those who call themselves "pro-life," but rather they have pushed themselves away with their rigidity. |
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18 Oct 04 - 08:01 PM (#1300170) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: McGrath of Harlow Take it up with Jim Wallis maybe? I don't think he was talking there about those kind of organisations, but rather about people who see all types of legalised killing as having something in common. It has seemed to me that, in discussions about this on the Mudcat, some people have seemed to see the economic pressures on women to have abortions as somehow inevitable, rather than as constituting a direct assault on freedom of choice. Fighting for changes that reduce those kind of pressures is the kind of thing on which people anyone who are genuinely pro-chopice, and people who are genuinely pro-life ought surely to be as one. As Jim Wallis advocates in that article. |
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18 Oct 04 - 08:40 PM (#1300182) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Amos Dear Gawd, Spare me from nutballs high and low, and let me not be unto others a nutball myself. Thank you. A |
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18 Oct 04 - 08:53 PM (#1300190) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: jaze The Catholic Church is in enough trouble right now with the priest problem. Excommunicating John Kerry right now would cause it to lose thousands and thousands of the faithful it can't afford to lose. The "Texas Righties" and other conservatives seem to have forgotten the principle of separation of church and state. Kerry is not running as a Catholic, he just happens to be Catholic. |
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18 Oct 04 - 09:12 PM (#1300202) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Jack the Sailor I'm not sure what you are saying but I agree with Magrath and Jim Wallis. The best way to be anti abortion is to educate young women, to preventy pregnancy and to care for young women who want to carry to term. I'm against abortion as birth control but I'm also against unwanted babies to illequiped and unsupported women. |
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18 Oct 04 - 09:21 PM (#1300211) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Bobert God is Green... Peace. Bobert |
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18 Oct 04 - 09:34 PM (#1300221) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: mack/misophist For those who are old enough to remember, JFK promised the people that Catholic dogma would play no part in the decisions he made as president. If he wasn't a heretic, then neither is Kerry. I suspect the issue really represents the fact that the Vatican is dismayed that a good plurality, perhaps a majority, of western Catholics are opposed to a doctrine it refuses to reconsider. |
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18 Oct 04 - 09:44 PM (#1300232) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Jack the Sailor Maybe its overcompensation for the abuse scandals. |
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18 Oct 04 - 09:52 PM (#1300238) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: red_clay Pardon me Jaze,but you are contradicting the LEFTIES!!!...you say that the TEXAS RIGHTIES are forgetting about seperation of Church and State! then please tell me why KERRY and EDWARDS are sucking up to Black voters in the south by ATTENDING their services every sunday,recently??? |
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18 Oct 04 - 09:52 PM (#1300239) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: CarolC So, red_clay, you're saying that Bill Clinton was appointed to the presidency of the United States by God, through the prayers of Christians in the US. Ok. Works for me. |
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18 Oct 04 - 10:00 PM (#1300247) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: red_clay no CarolC...thru the LACK of christians praying for leadership!...as also in the biblical times!God does not take christians for granted! if God loving-fearing christians want something,they had better pray in ernest and,as the scriptures say,without ceasing! |
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18 Oct 04 - 10:20 PM (#1300265) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Jack the Sailor Red Clay, You do not understand the concept of the seperation of Church and state. Here is a tip. Don't go to your preacher for constitutional advice. Don't go to your political leaders for religion. Render unto Caesar what is Caesars. Here's another tip. Don't trust George W. Bush. He is a madman and he is a liar. |
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18 Oct 04 - 10:39 PM (#1300276) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: CarolC So let me see if I'm reading you correctly, red_clay. You're saying that if a US president gets elected of whom you approve, he or she has been appointed by God through the prayers of US Christians. If a US president of whom you don't approve gets elected, he or she was appointed by God because US Christians didn't pray hard enough or properly. I guess you've got it all neatly sewn up, there, red_clay. So how do you figure it when a president gets elected who is approved of by some Christians but not others? |
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18 Oct 04 - 10:44 PM (#1300280) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Amos Red Clay: Here's another: don't proselytize you stuff on this forum. Keep your faith, keep it happy and keep it to yourself. It makes the locals rise up and assert the difference between dogma and communication with a vengeance. You would not want to read what happens. A |
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18 Oct 04 - 11:06 PM (#1300293) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Peace Uh, God told me not to get involved with this thread anymore. |
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18 Oct 04 - 11:54 PM (#1300317) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: GUEST,peedeecee Did anyone notice that Red Clay also mentioned Kerry and Edwards "sucking up to black voters"? Why is it that people have to be the whole hog stereotype? Why couldn't Red Clay not have been racist, just for the sheer refreshment of it? |
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19 Oct 04 - 12:48 AM (#1300335) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Amergin God is most definately a socialist. |
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19 Oct 04 - 02:24 AM (#1300380) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: dianavan I'm really glad that I didn't grow up with an angry God. d |
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19 Oct 04 - 05:02 AM (#1300456) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: GUEST,longpecker redneck I have just started using this site in the vain hope that it might contain what it professes to do - that is a forum for stuff about music.So far all I have found is post after post and thread after thread of self opiniated assholes spouting there half formed ideas/arguments on everything under the sun except what true lovers of music, like me, are searching for. There are plenty of political parties for people like this to join and air their ideas Why dont they go and do this and leave this site to proper music lovers to enjoy.We don't want to have this political crap shoved at us on every opportunity, lets get on with the music and enjoy ourselves. |
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19 Oct 04 - 05:38 AM (#1300485) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: McGrath of Harlow Go to the top of the page, longpecker and you will see that the enormous majority of threads on the Mudcat are music related, as has always been the case. The only reason you are down at this tail-end of the page is because you decided to open up one of the minority of threads which are not primarily music-related. |
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19 Oct 04 - 07:08 AM (#1300532) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: jaze Um, red clay, there's a big difference between attending (or sucking up as you say) a black church service and trying to change the constitution to please the narrow-minded , bigoted religious right. |
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19 Oct 04 - 10:54 AM (#1300661) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: red_clay AMOS...u r a typlical "leftie"! you want me to only talk about what you approve! well forget it jerk! this is an open forum and i'll talk about whatever i want to talk about! of course,you are welcome to do the same! by the way,do you own this operation? as far as i know,you do not! |
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19 Oct 04 - 10:58 AM (#1300664) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: red_clay one other thingy,amos...you "libbies" in here seem to hate religion or any referenceto God Almighty,but you PREACH to us all the time what is right and wrong,as far as YOU see it! get a life!!! |
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19 Oct 04 - 11:01 AM (#1300668) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: red_clay ha ha jaze!!! you are totally OUT OF TOUCH with the real world! you should get a life,too! |
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19 Oct 04 - 11:16 AM (#1300676) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: GUEST,Dr.Quelch When Jesus was alive, two thousand years ago. He always voted Democrat and Jesus ought to know! |
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19 Oct 04 - 11:18 AM (#1300678) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Amos Jesus fucking Christ, red-clay, get it straight before you start shooting. I was offering some advice about the dynamics on this forum -- the people here, taken as a whole, do not like being told what God says,preferring to sort such matters out for themselves. Never mind. Shoot your focking mouth off, wise-ass, and see if it makes you any friends. Around these parts, friendships and hyuman courtesy count for something, but if you want to come in here and start throwing crap around the first day out of the box, demonstrating both your ignorance and your barbarian tendencies, feel free, say what you like. I wish you the joy of it. Whatever the fight is that you are stuck in, and however long ago it occurred, I also wish you freedom from it. A |
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19 Oct 04 - 11:22 AM (#1300685) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Wolfgang I am the Lord your God. You shall not have strange gods before me. These words make clear he is neither republican nor democrat. He is a dyed in the wool monarchist. Wolfgang |
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19 Oct 04 - 12:49 PM (#1300756) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: McGrath of Harlow You at all interested in music, red clay? |
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19 Oct 04 - 01:58 PM (#1300818) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: red_clay wow amos!!! little hot-headed ,aren't you?go take a shower! cool off! geeezzzzsh! what a temper!!!typlical "libbie" though!hahahahahaha |
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19 Oct 04 - 02:10 PM (#1300823) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Amos Glad to see you are taking my advise about shooting your mouth off pal. Obviously you come from an environment which cultivates rude playground-style behaviour, where growing up is frowned upon. I look forward to hearing you have moved. A |
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19 Oct 04 - 02:28 PM (#1300838) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Amos And by the way, don't take this personally. I have a personal mission to oppose stupidity and small-mindedness whereever I encounter it. That's why I am always ducking into phone booths. A |
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19 Oct 04 - 02:56 PM (#1300860) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: GUEST,peedeecee (Snark alert): not only is redneck clay a bigot, but also uneducated. Damn, stereotypes are always so absolute! |
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19 Oct 04 - 02:57 PM (#1300863) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Stilly River Sage Red Clay's posts to date. This individual is obviously a crackpot or a troll. We've had some GUESTS who fit that discription. Why join now? Do you desire communion with the folks here at Mudcat and want to use the PM or chat features? Or just want to distinguish your own brand of horse manure from other guests? On Terry Gross' Fresh Air yesterday she interviewed Michael Moore, and today she interviewed David Balsiger who made the "documentary" film George W. Bush: Faith in the White House. She also interviewed John Lind, who leads a team of folks who do nothing but pray for the resident and the members of his team. And now they're praying for elections. SRS |
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19 Oct 04 - 02:58 PM (#1300866) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Peace Hello, longpecker. If your dick is of sufficient length to reach your arse, kindly go fuck yourself. Thank you so much. |
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19 Oct 04 - 03:09 PM (#1300883) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Greg F. And if it isn't of sufficient length, die trying. |
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19 Oct 04 - 05:50 PM (#1301061) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: red_clay boy,such a bunch of stupid jerks here!hehehehe,,,i agree brucie! funny stuff!!!but amos,you know it's so wonderful to see you get all bent outta shape here overr some typing!you may need to take some anti-depressants,ole fellow! geeesh! please dont have a heart attack!...but then,who would care in here? you seem to be an expert on everything and i love getting under the skin of your type!you'll blow a gasket befgore i'm done here! hahahahaha you see,i'm not going anywhere as long as i have the pleasure of reading your responses here...what a jerk! hahahahaha oh what a beautiful morning! oh what a beautiful day! i have a beautiful feeling.....everythings going my way! hehehehehe |
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19 Oct 04 - 05:56 PM (#1301074) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Amos Right...only thing I can't understand is why you come such a far way to be ignored. But no-one said you had to make sense, bit-dick. Coming to a social forum to post anti-social comments is just as lame as it gets. I think you may be standing in need of help. But not from me. A |
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19 Oct 04 - 08:01 PM (#1301161) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: McGrath of Harlow I see a lack of capital letters. Do we have another disputative cockroach here? I refer, of course, to the immortal Archie - At night, alone, he dives furiously on the keys of Don Marquis' typewriter to describe a cockroach's view of the world, rich with cynicism and humor. It's difficult enough to operate the typewriter's return bar to get a fresh line of paper; all of Archy's dispatches are written lowercase, and without punctuation, because he is unable to hit both shift and letter keys to produce a capital letter. |
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19 Oct 04 - 08:11 PM (#1301164) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: GUEST,peedeecee wotthehell, McGrath, wotthehell. |
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19 Oct 04 - 08:17 PM (#1301167) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Amos toujours gai, ms amis! toujours gai!! A |
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19 Oct 04 - 08:30 PM (#1301176) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Greg F. Well, he sure as hell ain't the new e.e.cummings. |
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19 Oct 04 - 08:49 PM (#1301192) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: red_clay OH YE of LITTLE FAITH!!! |
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19 Oct 04 - 08:55 PM (#1301195) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: GUEST red clay, or can I call you fire elfglitter? You are meant to be a cheerful sprite, what gives? |
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19 Oct 04 - 10:19 PM (#1301232) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: GUEST red clay reads like daylia on an all-day bender or is another bLind DRunk in bLInd river-like Little Hawk creation. Really pushes those hot buttons. |
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20 Oct 04 - 12:01 AM (#1301295) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: red_clay yea...hide behind your GUEST,name!...hahahahah |
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20 Oct 04 - 12:02 AM (#1301299) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Peace I just had a really neat thought. I wonder if God's an atheist. |
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20 Oct 04 - 12:20 AM (#1301311) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Amos If he is, he must be in denial. A |
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20 Oct 04 - 06:00 PM (#1302205) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: GUEST,Clint Keller Well, He might not have a God who has a wonderful plan for His life…and he might not have accepted Jesus as his savior, either. clint |
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20 Oct 04 - 07:09 PM (#1302267) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: Amos I think GoD is exempted from that part -- to avoid an infinite loop. A |
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20 Oct 04 - 11:20 PM (#1302483) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: dianavan There are too many Gods for me to figure it out. Are we talking about G.W.'s God or Allah or the God of Israel? Those are pretty angry Gods if you ask me. d |
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21 Oct 04 - 12:52 AM (#1302533) Subject: RE: BS: God is Neither a Republican nor Democrat From: GUEST,Clint Keller I hear that God don't like ugly, and according to (I think) Ogden Nash "God knows what god is coming next." clint |