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05 Nov 04 - 06:43 AM (#1317511) Subject: BS: Washington DC fired upon by fighter jet From: GUEST,donuel We were told via radio broadcasts that it was just a minor training error that caused slight damage to desks in an elementary school from tiny 25 mm shells. Our DC National Guard has a job to do and they are doing their job. |
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05 Nov 04 - 08:54 AM (#1317610) Subject: RE: BS: Washington DC fired upon by fighter jet From: Bobert Opps! Glad it was at night and no kids were killed ot injured. I heard that there wasx a janitor in the school at the time who escaped harm. What I want to know is why they need to being conducting live round target practice anywhere in the D.C. area where so many people, ahhhh, live fir cripes sake? Or if they do feel they have to conduct such an exercise maybe they could paint a big bulls eye in open area in the middle of the Pentagon and use it to shoot at... Bobert |
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05 Nov 04 - 08:57 AM (#1317614) Subject: RE: BS: Washington DC fired upon by fighter jet From: jeffp A couple of facts: It happened in New Jersey. Yes, it was a pilot from the D.C. Air National Guard, but the school that was hit was in Little Egg Harbor Township in southern New Jersey. Second, it was not a 25 mm shell, it was a .50 caliber shell, about 12.7 mm across. |
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05 Nov 04 - 09:10 AM (#1317622) Subject: RE: BS: Washington DC fired upon by fighter jet From: GUEST,Bozo Shut down the ANG immediately. |
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05 Nov 04 - 09:44 AM (#1317649) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: dwditty Man, when Bush says he is going to spend his political capital, he ain't kidding. |
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05 Nov 04 - 09:45 AM (#1317653) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: WFDU - Ron Olesko That is what we get for being a blue state. |
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05 Nov 04 - 09:49 AM (#1317658) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: Roger the Skiffler Voted Democrat did they? RtS |
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05 Nov 04 - 10:16 AM (#1317694) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: Rapparee Apparently it was an M61A1 Vulcan mounted under the left wing of the F16 fighter from which the rounds came. That's a 20 mm, multi-barreled "Gatling gun" weapon. Also, the rounds fired were lead, not something like depleted uranium. Here's a picture of the Navy version, which doesn't differ at all from that used by the Air Force. Somebody's in deep poo.... |
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05 Nov 04 - 10:29 AM (#1317716) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: Mooh Talk about friendly fire! Indeliberate domestic terrorism. God save them from themselves. Peace (I hope), Mooh. |
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05 Nov 04 - 10:30 AM (#1317718) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: artbrooks That firing range, BTW, has been there since WW2, when it was surrounded by miles upon miles of nothing. |
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05 Nov 04 - 10:37 AM (#1317731) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: InOBU So much for sergical arial warfare! Well, in about 30 years, I supose that sad sack in the pilot seat will be running for president... Oh Canada... Larry |
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05 Nov 04 - 11:52 AM (#1317827) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: Stu A little bit of Fallujah in the US. |
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05 Nov 04 - 12:17 PM (#1317879) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: GUEST,Chief Chaos This just in... The pilot was ordered to fire at the school in the hopes of getting rid of evidence that there were some children left behind... |
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05 Nov 04 - 12:28 PM (#1317894) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: Little Hawk I have often fantasized about having the magical ability to cause this to happen: All bombs dropped by military airplanes will be teleported immediately above the factories that made them...and the politicians and generals who gave the orders to drop them on someone. There they will land and explode. All cruise missiles fired will return likewise to their point of origin and blow it up. All bullets fired will reverse their course in midair and return to land between the eyes of the fool who pulled the trigger. About 2 or 3 days of that and you would see the permanent establishment of Peace on Earth...and the White House, the Pentagon, the Kremlin, the Israeli bases, various terrorist hideouts, and a great many big factories here and there would be nothing but smoking holes in the ground. I seriously wish sometimes that I had such a power, but I suppose it's better that people make their own mistakes and learn their lessons themselves without me meddling in raising their consciousness. |
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05 Nov 04 - 12:37 PM (#1317910) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: Cluin That's a pretty involved fantasy, LH. Fantasies about rolling around in bed all afternoon with Jennifer Lopez are enough for me. ;) It's good to see the Pentagon has reinstituted the "Uppers for Pilots" program. I guess when there are no allied forces around in the field with them to exercise their itchy trigger fingers on, they use local schools. |
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05 Nov 04 - 02:28 PM (#1318064) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: GUEST Why the Hell are part-timers flying armed aircraft anyway, its INSANE... I would question the sanity of them flying 'front-line' aircraft of any sort |
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05 Nov 04 - 03:08 PM (#1318101) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: GUEST Most of them fly out of date planes, not front line types. I don't know the specs of the plane but I doubt it was a new variant. Keep in mind that alot of the current inventory has been around since the 70's. When a new variant comes out they don't change the name. For example the C-130 cargo plane is into it's 10th design change hence the designation C-130J. Little Hawk - My father was a fire control technician in the U.S. Navy. Once in awhile they would have a missile go nuts and come back at them. They've got film of one porpoising in and out of the Atlantic like a rabid dolphin. I know that it's only a fantasy but please don't wish harm to these folks. I'd like nothing better than to be able to beat our swords into plowshares but as it is I don't think we'll be able to any time soon. |
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05 Nov 04 - 06:04 PM (#1318287) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: MarkS The latest story is that the firing was an accidental discharge. The pilot was said to be on his way to the firing range when the gun discharged without warning, and without the pilot actually firing it. These kinds of gremlins in automated weapon systems are more usual than generally known. As the level of complexity increases, the chance of mishap increases too. Think how often a modern computer controlled car does something wierd without warning. Makes a great case for keeping training areas and the access routes to them as remote as possible. Mark |
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05 Nov 04 - 06:44 PM (#1318324) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: Grab Mark, as someone professionally employed in making sure computer-controlled cars don't do wierd shit without warning, I'd say that's not too often, especially these days. More often it's down to hardware problems (eg. some random connector has dropped off) which would bugger anything, or more often still it's down to good old User Error. Certainly the increasing complexity gives more *potential* for things to go wrong though - and more potential for someone to fail to understand how it works. And sadly, since we're all human, also more potential for someone who makes a mistake to scapegoat the software instead of owning up and saying "oops, sorry". Graham. |
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05 Nov 04 - 07:10 PM (#1318345) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: Don Firth Premature ej— No! Don't go there! My brother-in-law was in the Montana Air National Guard. With a little hanky-panky, he got me a 20 mm Vulcan, which I have mounted under my wheelchair. . . . skateboarders. . . . Don Firth |
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05 Nov 04 - 07:16 PM (#1318349) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: Cluin Why are they flying with armed missiles over home territory when there's no hostilities occurring there? |
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05 Nov 04 - 07:33 PM (#1318365) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: GUEST,Cattail (No cookie) Hi Grab. If you don't already know of it, this site may interest you. http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/ Best wishes Cattail ! |
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05 Nov 04 - 09:12 PM (#1318459) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: Susan A-R Don, LMAO, that's great! And for those of you Brits, please bear in mind that many of our troops in Iraq are National Guard part timers, Scary for everyone involved. I also listened to AP news on the radio several times today, start to finish (It's my ritual to make sure we're sort of still here) and never heard about this one. Oh MAN! |
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05 Nov 04 - 09:16 PM (#1318464) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: Little Hawk Cluin, thanks for the best laugh I've had today...your post of 12:37! Jennifer Lopez, eh? Not a bad fantasy, and elegantly straightforward and simple too. GUEST - No, I don't really wish them harm, I just get angry at times...and I wish humanity would wake up and stop fighting with one another. |
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05 Nov 04 - 11:15 PM (#1318553) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: GUEST,.gargoyle Links, LINKS...give us the links.
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05 Nov 04 - 11:26 PM (#1318562) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: Sorcha And I'm willing to be we never hear another word about it or the 'investigation'....... |
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05 Nov 04 - 11:40 PM (#1318578) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: Metchosin hell, the Canadian Navy put a shell through someone's garage roof here not that long ago. And the US Navy used one of out coastal provincial parks for target practise a few years back too. The local hikers there at the time were a bit dumbfounded, but fortunately unhurt. The US Navy promised not to do it again, at least not in the same place, but I can't recall what assurances the Canadian Navy gave. |
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05 Nov 04 - 11:51 PM (#1318587) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: Metchosin Link |
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06 Nov 04 - 12:25 AM (#1318598) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: GUEST,.gargole OK, I am now a disconsolate believer. Sincerely,
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06 Nov 04 - 11:40 AM (#1318834) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: Charley Noble Oh, it happened in Little Egg Harbor, NJ! That makes more sense, at least for a song challenge. "You can't train your Nation Guard pilots without breaking a few eggs!" "What do you expect to happen when we scramble our fighters?" "Them New Jerseyites can't take a yoke!" "It could have been Wurst, NJ!" Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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06 Nov 04 - 12:02 PM (#1318842) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: Little Hawk Ha! Ha! Thanks for the laugh, Charley. I needed that. |
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06 Nov 04 - 12:34 PM (#1318867) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: Thomas the Rhymer Poaching another poor child left behind... Undoubtedly some Benedict Arnold... Now theres a little egg on the face of the DC national guard... Looks like they scrambled him too soon... Eggsistentially yours, ttr |
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06 Nov 04 - 04:31 PM (#1319047) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: MarkS Grab I take your point. Perhaps it would be better to point out that because of the flexibility modern the PLC offers, the system complexity of most things now is levels higher than before. You are right when you say that computer controlled cars hink out "not too often," but if it does happen, say, once a year on a component or system which used to offer graceful degradation in the past - well, I hope my point is made too. I think today, making guns, or cars, or DVD players, designers who layer on the features and maybe ought to give a little more thought to the concept of "mean time between failure" of those components and the total impact on system reliability. Mark |
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06 Nov 04 - 04:55 PM (#1319060) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: GUEST,Obie |
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06 Nov 04 - 04:58 PM (#1319061) Subject: RE: BS: NJ fired upon by fighter jet From: GUEST,Obie Would this not be called "FRIENDLEY FIRE?" If you get killed by your friends it dosen't count, just like the National Guard bombing of Canadian troops in Afghanistan. Obie |