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18 Nov 04 - 04:23 PM (#1331492) Subject: BS: unravelled? From: GUEST,leeneia I'm a great one for reading, and recently I have seen three books and one post with "unraveled" in them. There is no such word as unraveled. To ravel is to come undone, especially for something knitted. If something unraveled, it would knit itself back up, probably magically. Tunnelers speak of "ravelling ground." They don't like it; it is a which layer which disintegrates as they work on it. Remember Hamlet's words: "Care, that unknits the unravelled sleave of sleep." (sleave = skein) |
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18 Nov 04 - 04:27 PM (#1331495) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Nerd Sorry, but you're wrong. Unravel is listed in the OED and they give citations back to 1603. |
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18 Nov 04 - 04:42 PM (#1331507) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Nerd Unravel, v. 1. trans. To take out of a ravelled, tangled, or intertwined condition; to disentangle; also, to pull down, to undo (a woven fabric). Freq. in fig. context: see quots. under (a). (a) 1603 DEKKER Wonderfull Yeare Wks. (Grosart) I. 131 She..vnraueld the bottome of her frailetie at length. 1639 FULLER Holy War IV. i. 166 Frederick..unravelled the fair web of John Brens victory, even to the very hemme thereof. 1709 SWIFT Tritical Ess. Wks. 1755 II. I. 144 We shall be forced to..unravel in the night what we spun in the day. 1792 BURKE Corr. (1844) IV. 3 The web has been too long weaving to be unravelled in an instant. 1856 KINGSLEY in N. Brit. Rev. XXVI. 78 To unravel patiently the tangled web of good and evil. 1878 BROWNING La Saisiaz 81, I, link by link, unravelled any tangle of the chain. |
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18 Nov 04 - 04:49 PM (#1331514) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: GUEST,Blackcatter at work Leenia - you say the word doesn't exist and then you quote it in a Shakespeare play? curiouser & curiouser. |
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18 Nov 04 - 06:18 PM (#1331579) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Jim Dixon That "quote" is a clever reversal of what Shakespeare wrote. The real quote is "Sleep that knits up the ravelled sleave of care." |
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18 Nov 04 - 06:20 PM (#1331581) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Bill D unraveling means playing "Bolero" backwards. |
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18 Nov 04 - 06:43 PM (#1331598) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: PoppaGator Similarly, "flammable" and "inflammable" both mean the same thing -- able to go up in flames. That's English for you! |
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18 Nov 04 - 06:46 PM (#1331605) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Jim Dixon Why are "priceless" and "worthless" opposites? |
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18 Nov 04 - 07:28 PM (#1331649) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: annamill Ha! Good one Bill! Annamill |
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18 Nov 04 - 07:31 PM (#1331654) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Ebbie Why is a fat chance a slim chance? |
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18 Nov 04 - 07:54 PM (#1331677) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Uncle_DaveO And it gives me a laugh to see/hear someone say, "There is no such word as '__(whatever)____.'" Presumably the writer means that "There should be no such word as '___(whatever___'" because it's nonsensical or rendundant or whatever reason is given. Now I suppose if I made up a word I could meaningfully say, "There's no such word as 'dinkfrong'," because indeed 'dinkfrong' is not a set of sounds which is used between people to mean something, but as soon as someone assigns a meaning to it and uses it to even attempt to communicate that meaning, and even if no-one else in the world understands what that speaker meant, it's a word; certainly not a useful word under those circumstances, but a word. If I decide that "dinkfrong", which I just made up a minute ago, means "A person who says there is no such word as '____(whatever)___'," then that's a word. If someone at Mudcat picks it up and uses it with that meaning, whether back to me or to someone else, then the word is in circulation, and has its place (however small) in our language. I remember being told when in grade school sixty-five years ago that "There's no such word as 'ain't', because 'ain't' ain't in the dictionary!" Of course there was and is such a word as "ain't" because we all know it is (and was then) in current useage, and the speaker was even using it, and besides that, it was in the (or at least "a") dictionary. I know, because I looked it up, when I was about eight years old! I believe that some abridged dictionaries at that time left it out, presumably on the ground of inelegance, but it certainly was in the one I had access to. Dave Oesterreich |
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18 Nov 04 - 07:58 PM (#1331679) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Nerd So you're saying that Leeneia is a dinkfrong, eh? |
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18 Nov 04 - 07:58 PM (#1331681) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Peace I have had more than a few students come and tell me that their grandmother (or mom or dad or, or, or) told them that ain't isn't a word. I have usually replied that technically that's true. It's two words. But, that's contractions for ya. |
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18 Nov 04 - 11:07 PM (#1331865) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Ebbie Well, I've met a number of dinkfrongs. But I always thought it meant something else. |
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18 Nov 04 - 11:38 PM (#1331893) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Rapparee "Dinkfrong" is a technical term used when discussing bipolar p-n junctions in germanium trioxide-based semiconductors. Dinkfrongs come in two variety, invert and obvert, depending upon the direction of twist, or ravellment. They also share the quality of "up" and "down" with quarks; this quality apparently relates to the orientation of the dinkfrong's constituant quarks and is directly opposite to the quark orientation (i.e., if the "up" quarks predominate, the dinkfrong will be oriented "down"). If a series of "up" dinkfrongs is placed in parallel, it will repel, not attract, a similar series of "down" dinkfrongs placed in parallel -- some think that this has implications that any Grand Unified Theory must deal with before it can be accepted. It has also been discovered that placing a series of "up" oriented dinkfrongs parallel to, but not touching, a series of "down" oriented dinkfrongs a rather nasty explosion will result. There seems to be a critical limit beyond which dinkfrongs placed in the same plane cannot go. They can, however, be stacked vertically to any height you wish. |
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19 Nov 04 - 12:03 AM (#1331919) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: GUEST,leeneia Sorry, but I don't think that words illiterate people were using in the 1600's count as words for today. I would hate to be a lawyer trying to write a contract if it was all right for a word and its opposite to mean the same thing. |
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19 Nov 04 - 12:09 AM (#1331922) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Cluin Of course many words and their opposites mean the same thing. What do you think keeps lawyers in business, lee? |
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19 Nov 04 - 12:09 AM (#1331923) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Amos Well, now, valuable and invaluable both mean of great monetary value, as do pricey and priceless. But these apparent contradictions ar eonly apparent. If you understand the etymology involved they are easy enough to trace. If something is tangled up in a random sort of way it is said to be raveled, and might have to be teased apart (unraveled) to then be properly and neatly knitted again. If something is tangled in an orderly way, like a weave, the bits are tangled but in order -over and under and over. They are satill all wrapped up in each other, or tangled, and they can therefore be said also to be raveled, but more neatly. They can likewise be teased into an unraveled condition, with the strands separated out. See what I mean? A |
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19 Nov 04 - 12:13 AM (#1331928) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Cluin One my girlfriend often uses out of habit... unthaw. "Leave the bacon to unthaw. We'll eat it later." So I put it back in the freezer. A tip: Don't take what your lover says too literally all the time. They don't always like it. |
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19 Nov 04 - 01:43 AM (#1331978) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: George Papavgeris As a keen student of the English language, I have come acropper several times: a) When they say some organisation was "founded" in year such-and-such, does that mean that it was "losted" before? b) Why are the legal and medical professions so interested in "youth in Asia"? c) Why is the throwing of flowers a bad thing - as "casting nasturtiums"? I fear I may never get answers to the above before I die of "old timers' disease". Or is the whole thing a fig of my imagination? Hilda Ogden - where are you, teacher? |
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19 Nov 04 - 02:17 AM (#1331990) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Ebbie That's what I thought, Rapaire. You've summed it up, i.e., got it down, quite neatly. Sorry, Uncle_DaveO. |
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19 Nov 04 - 04:00 AM (#1332039) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Cluin And should we really be downloading updates? I hardly ever upload any downdates. |
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19 Nov 04 - 04:04 AM (#1332041) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Splott Man How did you know dinkfrong was a noun? In Welsh it's an adverb (mutated) |
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19 Nov 04 - 05:57 AM (#1332084) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: MBSLynne If a word is used by people, then it becomes a word..it exists. Lots of people use the word unravel, as you've pointed out, having seen it in three books. Therefore, it is a word. Language is subject to constant evolution. Look at the number of words now in the language from computer-speak and mobile phone texting. If one person uses a word and another understands what they mean, then it is a word and does exist.... And priceless and worthless aren't, strictly speaking, opposites. And...LOL Bill D!! |
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19 Nov 04 - 06:10 AM (#1332091) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Leadfingers Reminds me of the chap who came to London to improve his English . He has a lot of trouble with all those words that were spelt the same but pronounced differently (Plough , through ,etc ) He finally gave up and went home when he saw a poster outside a Theatre that said in BIG letters ' CATS - Pronounced success!!' |
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19 Nov 04 - 06:52 AM (#1332117) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: freda underhill Wanderin along that rocky path black knitted shawl all wound about when fate unravelled fast before me Never found my roundabout Once a teenybopper Now come a cropper, I was losted, not ever founded All my nasturtiums yet cast before me nor my figments had flowered groundward. All I wanted was youth in Asia before I died of old timers' disease but those hopes of youth unravelled when my lungs be gan to wheeze and so I beg you Ogden Pash Nash You've summed it up, er, got it down, and now my updates are all downloaded at last I know that dinkfrong's a noun yet well be adverbs yet mutated and syllogisms nor yet translate yet my old wool shawl is still unravelled I follow its thread To that rusty old gate. Quietly My old feet wander And all my feelings are at heel at night I sit and spin my old shawl tomorrow to un revel anew. |
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19 Nov 04 - 07:37 AM (#1332142) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: MBSLynne Brilliant!! |
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19 Nov 04 - 08:50 AM (#1332227) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: GUEST,Blackcatter at work Dinkfrog (or dink-frog) is a term we use in Orlando to describe the tourists who hop from one theme park to the next repeatedly. We've got 7 major and 5 or so minor theme parks and with multi-day passes, tourists can visit several parks in the same day. It started when Disney began offering its "Park-Hopper Pass." It's somewhat of a derogatory term, however - usually reserved for the "dinks" who leap "frog" from park to park so often that they're spending more time traveling on the roads than enjoying the rides & shows they paid to see. Noun: Dinkfrog Verb: Dingfroggin' Some times we just use "DF" since that also stands for Dumbf*ck, and is appropriate as well in some cases. |
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19 Nov 04 - 08:58 AM (#1332237) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Bill D ah, freida...I have never seen e.e.cummings and Ogden Nash so well merged before! |
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19 Nov 04 - 11:26 AM (#1332424) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: katlaughing Well done, freda! BillD!! LMAO!! Frel is very much a part of our family language now, having learned it from FarScape...a rather "clean" way to say fuck, well until everyone else catches on.:-) eonly apparent - takes a LONG time before it becomes clear! |
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19 Nov 04 - 11:50 AM (#1332457) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Dead Horse So, is a bisexual someone who performs the sex act on a tandem? |
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19 Nov 04 - 01:59 PM (#1332580) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Michael No a bisexual is a customer of a sellsexual Mike |
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19 Nov 04 - 02:10 PM (#1332593) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Chris Green Surely a bisexual is someone who's said bye to sex? |
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19 Nov 04 - 02:12 PM (#1332597) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Chris Green Whereas a polysexual is someone who shags parrots... |
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19 Nov 04 - 05:09 PM (#1332782) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: freda underhill and a metrosexual is someone who has Sex in the City. |
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19 Nov 04 - 05:10 PM (#1332784) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Nerd Leeneia, Once again you're wrong, in so many ways. 1) The literacy of a speaker does not affect whether the words they use are words. 2) The person using the word in this case was obviously not illiterate, as his use of it has survived four hundred years. Indeed, one of the early usages I cited was from Swift. Do you think you are more literate than he was? 3) Even if you don't mean "it's not a word at all" but "it's not a word recognized as part of standard English," you're quite wrong. It's in every dictionary of standard English. You just decided to be clever, and to claim that because you knew one archaic meaning of "ravelled" which was similar to one common meaning of "unravelled," "unravelled" was redundant and should have its word-status revoked. But it doesn't work that way. |
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19 Nov 04 - 05:11 PM (#1332785) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Rapparee I thought a bisexual had two wheels and pedals. |
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19 Nov 04 - 06:17 PM (#1332865) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: freda underhill a bisexual is someone who's had enough and is saying goodbye. |
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19 Nov 04 - 09:38 PM (#1333057) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Chief Chaos Poppagator, Actually to firefighters and hazmat folks flammable and inflammable mean two differnt things. Flammable means = It will catch fire so look out! Inflammable means = Take cover, an idiot will soon come along with a lit cigarette and say "Why are you worried, it won't catch fire!" |
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20 Nov 04 - 10:22 AM (#1333536) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: catspaw49 WIth the exception of the original post, this thread is brilliant. Regarding the original post, I would like to state for the record that I don't particularly give a shit. Spaw |
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20 Nov 04 - 10:38 AM (#1333550) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Blackcatter Spaw - we're glad you shared. Here's a question, if I'm out of dinkfrog food, what do I feed my pet dinkfrogs? |
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20 Nov 04 - 12:06 PM (#1333644) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: MBSLynne Well obviously....scobblewick. You DO have some scobblewick in the house don't you? |
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20 Nov 04 - 12:24 PM (#1333657) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: catspaw49 He may, but it's a far less nutrtious diet than Florbschievernt. Spaw |
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20 Nov 04 - 12:44 PM (#1333683) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Alba Also on behalf on the millions of Scobbles that are killed for their wicks I protest. There has to be a better alternative surely. Florbschievernt, as we all know, can cause gas in Dinkfrogs and Riblelizards but is, in saying that, a more humane food. Blessings Jude |
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20 Nov 04 - 02:34 PM (#1333798) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: annamill Lewis Carroll watch out!! |
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20 Nov 04 - 10:32 PM (#1334150) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: katlaughing I've heard good reviews of a new alternative called Keentushala...supposedly it has helped with the captive breeding of Dinkfrogs and also relieves the pressures on Scottle's to give up their winks, it being quite tasty in its own right, plus nutritious, for the Dinkfrogs, that is. |
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21 Nov 04 - 12:44 AM (#1334202) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Nerd Now you folks are talking about dinkfrogs, which are of course a kind of mentally underdeveloped amphibian, but initially we were talking about dinkfroNGs, which are otherwise intelligent people who claim that words aren't really words. Show me someone who doesn't believe dinkfrong is a word, and I'll show you a dinkfrong in the flesh! |
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21 Nov 04 - 01:59 AM (#1334225) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: Mudlark Freda, you are on a roll....or a bagel....brilliant poem! |
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21 Nov 04 - 07:53 AM (#1334355) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: freda underhill thanks mudlark - you may regret that comment , it only encourages me... a dirhinous camel in Muharbia manic with a woman was wandering in predictable panic she was writing athesis on chamelon's cholic but the ship of the desert was a sly alcoholic He sucked Hashimayu to riddle his brains and passed out beneath her berating the rains. She needed some transport and went up Azrafa she got it with minties and a sticky red jaffa she rode past a minister with her bouncing giraffe her nostrils were sinister and her comments a gaffe "You meander steatopygously whither and thither on a creature that elongates and undulates hither, this life in the desert is a runcible rort but the locals could tsujigirl such a cerebral sort" He gazed at chameleons as she gave them quick-eze in a slithered surrender he fell to his knees with a barrage of groans about picking a box he became Zoanthropic and dived for her socks and rolling his eyeballs he coiled round her waisr "You'll never thelypthorise me" she snapped with distate, "You're a politician, not a lizard, go and write a new book" she shuddered and ran as his tongue went kershlook she anavanjeared him before he could leap her aim was as sharp as his fervour was deep the sounds of the desert blow in timeless ballet O'er the skeletal charade of his shameless delay She smiled as she gathered the scattered quick-eze and road the giraffe with perambular ease into the sunset and its apricot tones never thinking to look back at poor Barry Jones... |
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21 Nov 04 - 07:57 AM (#1334360) Subject: RE: BS: unravelled? From: freda underhill oops, sorry guys, this should have gone on the silly rhymes thread. now i really HAVE come all unravelled! |