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29 Dec 04 - 10:57 PM (#1367303) Subject: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST,Matt S. Does anyone know if any of the folk singers of the 60's folk revival became wealthy? Clearly, Bob Dylan and Pete Seeger did well. What about the others who were popular at that time? Artists like Joan Baez, Odetta, Judy Collins, Richie Havens & Peter, Paul & Mary. Also, how much do they usually earn per performance today? |
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29 Dec 04 - 11:02 PM (#1367309) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Peace Easiest way to find that out is to e-mail their booking agents/agencies and ask price per performance. |
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29 Dec 04 - 11:04 PM (#1367312) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Once Famous Or get a court order for them to produce their 1040 tax forms. |
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29 Dec 04 - 11:21 PM (#1367321) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST I'm guessing most of them still can command at least $10,000 a night, depending on the hall and the type of gig. |
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29 Dec 04 - 11:21 PM (#1367323) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST Dylan would command much more than that though, as he is doing arena rock tours now. |
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30 Dec 04 - 01:47 AM (#1367394) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: NH Dave While Pete Seeger may well command fees like that these days, there was a very long time when he was singing for very little, and glad to get it, after his career was all but stolen from him by the House Committee on Unamerican Activities and Joe McCarthy. As a result of his stand that he had the right to believe as he saw fit, associate with whomever he wished, and neither the House or Joe McCarthy had any right to take him to task for his exercise of this right, he was blackballed and banned from appearing on any program aired over commercial radio and TV. The immediate result of this was that he bowed out of his role with The Weavers, allowing various other banjo players his spot in the sun, so that The Weavers could continue to appear in commercial venues, but it was the death knell for them, except in the hearts of folk loving people across the country. The fight against the efforts of various people to jail him for contempt of Congress was long and, no doubt, expensive, so that what he ended up with, aside from that warm fuzzy feeling way down deep, was a vindication of sorts, he wasn't jailed, but it was a long time before he could work in commercial entertainment again. During this time he made appearances on public television, worked with the Clearwater Coalition to clean up the Hudson River so that people could no longer cross on the pollution and fish could live in it and still be eaten by those who caught them. Dave |
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30 Dec 04 - 07:07 AM (#1367496) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Dave Hanson Nobody goes into folk music to get rich, they do it for love of the music, Bob Dylan got rich as a rock singer. eric |
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30 Dec 04 - 07:17 AM (#1367500) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: alanabit This is one of the nastiest questions I have seen on Mudcat for some time Matt S. It is none of my damned business who you sleep with or how much money you have. I extend the same respect to those who entertain me. |
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30 Dec 04 - 09:44 AM (#1367565) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Once Famous I think it's a legitimate question. You are way to sensitive alanabit. Performing folk music is also a business and a livelihood for people. Yes, folk musicians can be capitalists. Deal with it. |
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30 Dec 04 - 09:54 AM (#1367577) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: DonMeixner Hi Matt, I think you'll find it was more the successful songwriters that did well financially than individual performers. There will always be some iconic types, Seeger, Baez, Judy Collins, Dylan, and PPM who do well whatever the situation. Joan and Judy are not considered to be exceptional song writers based on a volume of work. Altho' they have writen some good songs. I saw Tom Paxton at Old Songs a few years back and he certainly wasn't getting $10,000.00 for the gig. But he comes to my mind as one of the most successful singer/song writers of the age. I would bet his income from songs, recorded by others or used in commercials, is greater or at least equal to his income from performance fees. Don |
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30 Dec 04 - 09:58 AM (#1367585) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Midchuck alanabit said: It is none of my damned business who you sleep with or how much money you have. I agree with you. Unfortunately, neither the IRS, (or whatever their British equvivalent is called), nor the people who publish the tabloid newspapers that they sell at grocery store checkout counters, agree with either of us. And as far as the IRS is concerned, what they say goes. Peter. |
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30 Dec 04 - 09:58 AM (#1367586) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: alanabit No Martin, that was not my point. I have performed music for a living myself for many years. Of course folk musicians can have any political, religious or idealogical beliefs they choose. I just find it contemptibly rude and ignorant to speculate or inquire into the the private affairs of anyone. When people ask me about my private affairs - including financial ones - I reserve the right to tell them to mind their own business. (I have done just that face to face on television, in fact). I have no right to inquire into your private life. It is basic good manners that I don't. I am somewhat disturbed to find that well known performers are somehow considered to be less deserving of common courtesy than other people. It is not a legitimate question. It is downright bloody rudeness. |
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30 Dec 04 - 10:00 AM (#1367589) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST No, I wouldn't expect Tom Paxton to pull down $10,000 a night. But I'm quite sure those named in the original post do. |
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30 Dec 04 - 10:16 AM (#1367603) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST,Greg i too have wondered if famous folk singers who were popular in the 60's made out well from recordings, concerts, etc. Judy Collins, Richie Havens, Odetta and Joan Baez are still selling tickets, touring and sound vital imho. |
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30 Dec 04 - 10:47 AM (#1367625) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Once Famous alanabit, if I pay $50 to see you perform and you really suck, I reserve the right to say that you are probably overpaid and don't deserve to be making what you are getting. |
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30 Dec 04 - 10:53 AM (#1367635) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: alanabit I could not agree more. But I hope you don't go around asking all your acquaintances how much loot they have or earn. I know that if I were to do that, I would need a very resiliant nose! |
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30 Dec 04 - 11:03 AM (#1367643) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Once Famous Nah, it's a different deal when someone is a performer. |
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30 Dec 04 - 11:09 AM (#1367649) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: alanabit I can see that there is not going to be any point at all in asking why! |
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30 Dec 04 - 11:09 AM (#1367650) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST Asking a question in an open internet chat forum about earnings in an industry among the cream of the crop isn't exactly the equivalent of walking up to someone and asking them how much they earn. So your indignation over the question being asked here seems misplaced, alanabit. Why did you automatically assume the original poster had malevolent intentions just for asking the question? If I were someone who knew they really had the talent to make in this business, and I was just starting out, I'd sure ask what the top acts were making a night in a context like an open internet chat forum where there may be people who know the answer to the question. |
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30 Dec 04 - 11:27 AM (#1367659) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Rain Dog Alanabit, I don't really find it rude when people ask me questions which I would not dream of asking them. I don't mind people asking me anything as long as they don't mind if I don't answer. We are free to ask what questions we want, as long we know that it might well provoke a response we do not like. We do not have the right to have every question answered. Hence the expression : There are more questions than answers. Hence the question : How much did Johnny Nash make from that song ? |
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30 Dec 04 - 11:27 AM (#1367662) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Bassic I think Paul Simon probably made a few dollars as well. |
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30 Dec 04 - 10:00 PM (#1367687) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: sixtieschick My first reaction was that "folk singers and wealth" is an oxymoron. However, I'm sure some people made some money. Whether or not they held onto it is another story. It's hard to make assumptions about anybody's' financial state. A lot of money went up some performers' noses. Some more went into multiple alimonies and child support. Others just managed it badly and it evaporated in a hundred little ways. Hopefully, some who made a more modest piles invested wisely and are living comfortably. Why is Dylan doing Victoria's Secret commercials? For all I know he lost all his dough in technology investments that went south and needs to pay the bills. By the way, I think Pete Seeger has retired. That is what he wrote to someone trying to book him earlier this year (unless that was an excuse for a concert he didn't want to do.) Chanteyranger and I used to go to Seeger's children's concerts in the mid-fifties. He used to perform for free in a park. That was during the time that HUAC had rendered him radioactive to concert promoters with real concert halls and real admission prices. God bless him for performing anyway. He made a lot of children very happy. |
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30 Dec 04 - 10:16 PM (#1367693) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST,.gargoyle You are a SICK!!!! little Mudcat Kitten ......
Quite Frankly Who Gives a D.....
Sincerely,
Jealousies can run...deep, deep, deep, it is not up to "outsiders" to pass judgement on professional accountants, lawyersn or PAST governmental LAWS. |
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30 Dec 04 - 10:18 PM (#1367694) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST It appears that someone is ...phishing... fishing... wishing..... for a USA governmental reward with the current bounty paid on returned past income taxes. |
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30 Dec 04 - 10:25 PM (#1367700) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST,Matt S. I'm a singer/songwriter/guitarist who performs a lot and have been told by many I have the talent to make it in the folk world. That's why I was wondering about the salaries of top acts, etc. Btw, I was really surprised when I saw Dylan in the Victoria Secret commercials. It was below him. Matt |
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30 Dec 04 - 11:25 PM (#1367753) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: sixtieschick Matt, Obviously I took off in a philosophical direction that wasn't helpful to you. I wish you great good fortune in doing what you love and making it pay the bills. It can be done. But invest that green stuff wisely, whatever that means these days. |
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30 Dec 04 - 11:39 PM (#1367763) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST,Matt S. Sixtieschick, Are you a performer yourself? Matt |
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31 Dec 04 - 12:01 AM (#1367768) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: JedMarum Matt - maybe this is too much personal info to put up in public, but here goes. I've been making a living at folk music for the last 5 years - come the end of next month. I am still determined to make it work somehow, but it don't come easy! I don't believe any of the "cream of the crop" you mention at the top of this thread would command 10K per performance for many performances in a year - with the exception of Dylan - and I am sure he makes much more. The others would get several shows for that much in the course of a year - a few more for less or for free. They've probably developed off-shoot means of income (authorship or performance royalties, books, CDs, TV shows, etc). I'll bet they work a lot shows from 3K to 6K, and pay some band members out that. Tom Paxton is a working musician. He works a lot, performs a lot and makes income from royalties. If you work all the time, you will not usually be commanding the 10K/performance rates (for years on end). But I'd bet Tom gets a few K$ per booking, and think he should. He certainly is one of the very best. Those of us on the lower rungs of that ladder, work a lot, and work for a wide range of fees. I've booked gigs over the next few months for $2000 and more for $200 or $300 (my high paying gigs are festivals and I play a few sets over 2 or 3 days). I work sometimes for the door (and take my chances) and sometimes even just for CD sales. When I take those risks, I weigh them carefully. Sometimes I loose - usually I do OK. It's tough to make money at this - but I am convinced if I work really hard and keep focused it'll get better. CD sales are probably half my income, and I sell most of those off the stage. So once again, you gotta work a lot make any money at this - and even then it doesn't add up to much (yet) but ya might almost make a living! ;-) |
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31 Dec 04 - 12:07 AM (#1367772) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Auggie I think that almost all of the folk singers I know personally are extremely well off, and that's because most of them are wise enough to measure wealth in terms other than money. It's one of the things that make folk musicians unique. Do they get paid in dollars what they are worth? Hell no, they probably make out worse than teachers in that regard, but if you need to know the cost of everything then you probably don't know the value of anything. |
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31 Dec 04 - 12:24 AM (#1367784) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: sixtieschick Matt, I'd have to pay people at least 10K to listen to me sing. Others here have given you some pragmatic and wise advice. I can only cheer you on. |
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31 Dec 04 - 01:03 AM (#1367804) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST,Matt S. Thanks for all the comments and advice given (especially Jed Marum.) I'm going to move forward with Folk Music. Thanks again, Matt |
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31 Dec 04 - 10:07 AM (#1368077) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST,John T. I once read Joan Baez gave most of the money she earned to causes she believed in at the height of her popularity (early to mid 60's.) She was said to be earning $10,000 for most concerts in those years. |
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31 Dec 04 - 02:53 PM (#1368364) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Charley Noble Hmmm. I've just received $9 as my wholesale reimbursement for the sale of my first personal CD, to some fellow from NJ who happened into the shop where I was playing it for the manager. Only $999,991 more and I'll be grossing a million dollars! My God, how the money pours in! Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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31 Dec 04 - 07:17 PM (#1368520) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: jaze I also read that Joan Baez gave away a lot to causes and performed free many times. She said she could have been fabulously wealthy if she had wanted to go "commercial".At the time, money wasn't that big an issue with her and actually caused her some confusion. In later years she probablly wished she had taken money more serioulsy. She decribed a reunion concert I think at Gerdes' Folk City where Tom Rush had to send plane fare for her and Mimi Farina so they could attend. Joni Mitchell made a lot of money but largely from her songwriting and publishing. She wisely kept control of all her music. She lost the chance to be in the movie Alice's Restraunt because the producers wanted the rights to the song she was going to sing in it and she refused. She was a smart businesswoman. |
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31 Dec 04 - 08:12 PM (#1368559) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: EagleWing "I saw Tom Paxton at Old Songs a few years back and he certainly wasn't getting $10,000.00 for the gig. But he comes to my mind as one of the most successful singer/song writers of the age. I would bet his income from songs, recorded by others or used in commercials, is greater or at least equal to his income from performance fees." Indeed, Tom Paxton makes regular visits to a folk club in Northwest Leicestershire in England and I doubt if he gets more than a few hundred pounds for them. Frank L |
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31 Dec 04 - 08:21 PM (#1368563) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Don Firth Reality check. How much someone gets paid per performance gives a considerably inflated idea of how much they personally get to keep. You have to factor in the cut to their agent, travel expenses, hotels, union dues to both the musician's own local and a substantial cut to the local he or she is performing in (indexed to how much they earn), and on and on it goes. All that comes off the top. I learned this the hard way. Then—I took a class in "the business of music" at the Cornish School in Seattle, where they teach you some of the practical aspects of being a professional musician. After that, I started asking for realistic fees instead of what was generally being offered. Three results: 1) if you don't ask for it, promoters sure as hell aren't going to pay it to you; 2) suddenly they respect you; and 3) you may not work quite as much, but overall, you make a lot more money. And some folk singers are using back-up bands these days (Baez, Dylan, others). Those folks don't work for nuthin'. Don Firth |
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31 Dec 04 - 09:16 PM (#1368584) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Rapparee Okay. The Highwaymen (remember them?) performed at a small college in West-central Illinois in 1965 for $1,500. The Mitchell Trio (minus Chad, but with John Denver) charged $2,250 in 1966. In 1967, Judy Collins charged $3,000. Points to remember: 1. This was the total paid to the booking agent, NOT to the performer, and has been noted there are expenses such as lodging, transportation, meals, and so forth -- and the college was most definitely NOT on a major traffic route. There wasn't even an Interstate highway in the area until twenty years later. 2. These performances were mid-week; the performers were snagged when they were between higher paying venues. 3. As I remember, PP&M wanted $15,000 for a performance at that time. 4. NONE of them gave anything less than a very professional performance. (And if Judy Collins happens to stumble over this thread -- the college was a few miles west of McMurray.) |
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31 Dec 04 - 09:57 PM (#1368604) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: M.Ted In a lot of ways, you are looking at it the wrong way, because you are thinking about what your prospects of financial success are--as Auggie points out, folk music, whatever that means, is not about money--folk music people are well off because they are doing something that is fullfilling and meaningful to them, and they have figured out a way to, if not always exactly make a living, at least to keep from starving,while keeping it the focus of their lives-- Most people who perform professionally have an idiosyncratic mix of music/performance realated things that they do to cover the rent and put food on the table, with a backup cash cow thing, that they can fall back on when things get tight-- like tending bar, substitute teaching, driving a limo, playing Santa--I know one musician who is fill in traffic court judge(an activist type who went to law school to change the world, and changed his mind instead)--Tal Farlow, one of the best jazz guitarists ever, was a sign painter--so it isn't as if "real" musicians don't do it-- The trick is to create a lifestyle that does not require a lot of money to maintain--that means you avoid credit, car payments, live in the cheap part of town, cook bean soup from scratch--pay cash for what you need when you've got the cash, and do without when you don't-- |
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31 Dec 04 - 10:38 PM (#1368622) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST,Art Thieme Let's see, this is an interesting topic! Something I rarely thought about unless we ran short of cash. It was never the money first. All we needed was for me to make enough to get by and pay the bills. Over the years, I guess I sold more than one instrument to get the rent money together. The music and my perceptions of what it meant for me to be a folksinger came second---after the family. After the music "grabbed me", there was no real choice--in spite of what philosophers might say about choises. After choosing my own mentors and learning some of it at their knees, the meandering trail was of my own making---wondrous and scary both. Family was always first though. Luck had a ton to do with making it work. I found a ten-year job singing on Mississippi River steamboats just in time to get Chris through college with nobody owing anything. (If I sound proud, it's 'cause I am. ;-) The only time I am chagrined at how little I've made over the years is when I go back to where I grew up and run into old friends who might be millionaires. And there were always some nicer things I would've liked to give Carol over the years. Other than those, I don't think I feel many regrets.---- And, oh, the music we heard and the friends we made! Just the best!! Art |
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31 Dec 04 - 11:40 PM (#1368639) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Rapparee Art, ain't that what it's all about? If I wanted to be rich I certainly wouldn't have chosen to be a librarian. Enough to pay the bills, enough to live on, and a life lived completely enough to be worth remembering. |
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01 Jan 05 - 11:28 AM (#1368717) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST,Matt All of you have given me much to think about. Thanks so much, Matt |
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01 Jan 05 - 11:43 AM (#1368730) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST The top North American and European folk acts playing conventional halls on conventional tours are usually going to pulling in $10,000 a night. They won't make the same amount playing small clubs or big folk festivals. I think Jed is right to be flexible, and sometimes agree for a percent of the door, but it can tough doing that because you have to know both the venue and the market, something many don't know. But there are ways to learn, and lots of good resources nowadays for finding the information out. I'd make one more suggestion, if you are planning on doing this professionally. Insist on a hotel room, and don't stay in people's homes. It wreaks havoc with your schedule and needs on the road. You need to be in control of that, not at the mercy of others, despite the generosity factor. |
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01 Jan 05 - 11:45 AM (#1368732) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Rapparee To me, it's epitomized in Brian McNeill's The Roving' Dies Hard. |
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01 Jan 05 - 11:53 AM (#1368743) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST,T.W. Rapaire, Is that a song or a book? |
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01 Jan 05 - 12:08 PM (#1368752) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Rapparee Song. To save you time searching the Forum -- THE ROVIN' DIES HARD (Brian McNeill) My name's John Mackenzie, I'm a master-at-arms, I carry my sword and my shield on my shoulder. I've fought every fight from the Don to the Danube, None braver, none better, none bolder. I've stood wi' Montrose and aginst him. I've battled with Swedes and with Danes. And I've carried the standard o' many's the army, Through many's the bloody campaign. But now as I sit in the firelight it seems There's a distant horizon to the sword buckler's gleam. Till a pull at the wine brings an old soldier's dreams from afar - For the rovin' dies hard. I'm Calum MacLean; I'm a trapper to trade. And it's forty long years since I saw Tobermory. Through Canada's forests I've carried my plaid, And its pine trees could tell you my story. Now my wandering days they are over, But I'm thankful to still be alive For I've many's the kinsman who died in the hulks At the end of the bold forty-five. I've an Indian lass now; I'll never deceive her, But there's nights when I'd up with my gun and I'd leave her For the land where the bear and the fox and the beaver are lord - For the rovin' dies hard My name's Robert Johnston, I'm a man of the cloth And I'll carry my Bible as long as I'm breathing. I've preached the Lord's gospel from Shanghai to Glasgow, Where e'er He saw fit to make heathens. But now the Kirk's calling me homewards It's the manse and the elders for me, But the sins o' the Session'll no be so far From the sins of the South China Sea And perhaps it's the voice of the Devil I've heard For it speaks of the clipper ships flying like birds, Till a man's only comfort is Scripture and the words of the Lord For the rovin' dies hard My name's Willie Campbell, I'm a ship's engineer And I know every berth between Lisbon and Largo I've sweated more diesel in thirty-five years Than a big tanker takes for cargo O' the good time I've had plenty Where the whisky and women were wild And there's many the wean wi' the red locks o' the Campbells Who's ne'er seen the coast of Argyll But now as the freighters unload on the quay The sound of the engine is calling to me And it sings me a song of the sun and the sea and the stars For the rovin' dies hard I've tuned up me fiddle and rosined my bow And I've sung o' the clans and the clear crystal fountains I can tell you the road and the miles from Dundee To the back of Alaska's wild mountains And when all of my travelling is over The next of the rovers will come And he'll take all the songs and he'll sing them again To the beat from a different drum And if ever I'm asked why the Scots are beguiled I'll lift up my glass in a health and I'll smile And tell them that fortune dealt Scotland the wildest of cards |
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01 Jan 05 - 12:45 PM (#1368774) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: tarheel dear guest MATT R....this day and time,it doesnt matter how talented you arew(singer,guitarist,etc..)folks like you are a dime a dozen and the chances of you "making it" in the business is>>>>zilch!!! hate to be the bearer of bad news here onnthe first day of the new year,but it's just the facts of life,my friend!!!sorry! oh by the way...why do you think Dylan does commercials for Victorias Secret,now?...BECAUSE there is more money in that than he will ever see again in his music,no matter how dedicated he is to it!!! another fact of life,my friend! |
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01 Jan 05 - 12:47 PM (#1368775) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST Dylan did Victoria's Secret because he is and has been a sell out for a reeeeeeeeaaaaaallllllly long time. Fuck the begrudgers, Matt. Break a leg. |
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01 Jan 05 - 02:02 PM (#1368825) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST,Art Thieme Matt, Some people have tact; others tell the truth. The folk scene ought not be a springboard to popular musical success. (And, please, do not break a leg. There's pain enough in show biz.) If you want to be a folksinger, sing actual folksongs a good 60% of the time. Art Thieme |
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01 Jan 05 - 02:23 PM (#1368842) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST Folk nazi alert. |
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01 Jan 05 - 02:23 PM (#1368843) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: tarheel i dont begrudge anything or anybody,Guest!!! i'm as happy as a hog in shit right now and live off my social security,pensions and just plain ole dollar gigs here and there! i wouldnt have it any other way,my friends!!!!! |
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01 Jan 05 - 02:26 PM (#1368844) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST There is no reason in the world why the folk music business shouldn't be a springboard to popular music success. None. Yet some people make it sound as if working for popular music success is the moral equivalent of child abuse. Don't listen to the begrudgers and folk nazis. And especially, not the the folk nazis. |
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01 Jan 05 - 03:30 PM (#1368891) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST Also, now that I think about it, you should probably be looking at some of the other crossover/multi-genre sorts of acts for guidance. Some ideas: Ani di Franco has done what you seem to be looking to do quite masterfully. |
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01 Jan 05 - 05:19 PM (#1368970) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: tarheel what the @#$*^% is a folk nazi!!!! |
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01 Jan 05 - 06:36 PM (#1369010) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Peter T. Well, Dylan has to support ex-wives, but I am pretty sure he did the Victoria's Secret ad for fun -- he once said many years ago that if he hadn't made it he would probably be selling women's lingerie, and I suspect he decided to make that into a fulfilled prophecy. As someone who was once on the speaker's circuit very briefly, a number of those idiots who sell those crappy books on "In Search of Taoist Excellence" or "24 Ways to Organize Your Time" easily get $10,000 a performance, and they are complete charlatans, and cannot hold a tune. yours, Peter T. |
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01 Jan 05 - 06:56 PM (#1369018) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Bill Hahn//\\ Dave Van Ronk once said: How does a folk singer get one million dollars? He starts with two million. I believe that in this genre of music, as in many ares of endeavor, one has to just love what they do and do it for the joy and sense of accomplishment it brings them. If it is also financially viable---all to the good. Pete Seeger, as stated earlier, worked and played for many years for "peanuts". It was about the music and the message. Talent and charisma and honesty won out. Once, I had the pleasure of attending a Martin Luther King evening honoring him---and they were giving him a small monetary honorarium. He wanted to return it (his wife thought better of that). In my own case---not being a musician---I co-host a radio program--we do not get paid. We do it for the love of the thing we do. Would it be nice of someone decided to syndicate the program--pay us? Sure. Still we do the program --as said--for the love of the music and the artists and the hope that we can interest others in joining us in this joy. I say "we"===obviously I speak only for myself and not my co-host (Ron Olesko). I am, however, confident that he concurs. Finally, I have found that in people I have known over the years the most financially successful ones were those that just gave their all to the things they wanted (law, medicine, politics,etc;) and loved. The rewards followed. Bill Hahn |
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01 Jan 05 - 08:25 PM (#1369079) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST,Art Thieme All I can say is that is how I see things. It's the way things ought to be if we had an ideal situation. I've no problem at all with you not understanding what I'm saying. Call me a folk nazi or whatever. Best Regards and happy new year. Art Thieme |
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01 Jan 05 - 08:34 PM (#1369088) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Rapparee Art, if you'd like I'll cybernetically punch him in the nose for calling you that. You might be an optimist (hell, you're a Cubs fan!) but I don't think that you're a nazi of any sort. Besides, I have no idea what a "folk nazi" might be, but it doesn't sound very nice. |
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01 Jan 05 - 08:35 PM (#1369089) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST Dylan? Read his book. It's all there, the honest truth for once. And this idea of putting the music first, the good life etc, making enough to get by, is okay till late middle age hits, and old age looms. Where's the security? Where's the pension? If the voice goes or arthritis hits the hands, or the car crash maims you, it's goodbye, and if you ain't got it in the bank you're in deep trouble. If you're a pro in any job you work for the money first or you're a fool. It doesn't mean you "sell out", whatever that means, but it does mean that you treat it as a job just like any other worker who's trying to avoid the workhouse. Or, as Dylan writes it, " I could see the future-an old actor fumbling in garbage cans outside the theatre of past triumphs." It's a great book! But it's not a romance. |
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01 Jan 05 - 09:22 PM (#1369112) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Bill Hahn//\\ GUEST: Well---I guess that puts The Bob in true perspective---unlike the Guthries or the Seegers. Also in the perspective of the "brilliant" essay" by yours truly above. If the pension and the residuals were his main concern he does not have the character to even hold a door open for a Seeger or and Ochs. This was your quote (re : pensions. It all has to do---as said earlier--with commitment, sincerity, and beliefs. Nuff said. Bill Hahn |
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01 Jan 05 - 11:16 PM (#1369159) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST |
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01 Jan 05 - 11:32 PM (#1369164) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST,coldjam M.Ted had words of wisdom,especially for folks starting out in anything!: "The trick is to create a lifestyle that does not require a lot of money to maintain--that means you avoid credit, car payments, live in the cheap part of town, cook bean soup from scratch--pay cash for what you need when you've got the cash, and do without when you don't--" You can accomplish a lot, and follow your art if you stick to that. I just read Dylan's book, and "the honest truth" would be a very ephemeral label to try to apply.If you took what he said at face value,you could figure he did Victoria's Secret to throw everyone off "his scent" once again. |
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02 Jan 05 - 07:52 AM (#1369285) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST "commitment, sincerity, and beliefs" I don't disagree with that Bill, but I can't help noticing there's more and more benefit concerts for older folk musicians who haven't got two pennies to rub together after a lifetime of giving pleasure to people with secure jobs and pensions. I'd like to see good pros getting it all and I'd like to see them realising early on in their careers that if they don't think of the money as well as their life's work and passion, they too will end up needing benefit concerts. I value them too highly to wish that to be their destiny. |
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02 Jan 05 - 08:27 AM (#1369306) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Jim McLean Once, in the early 1960s, Dylan asked me where Ewan McColl lived. I said he lived in Bexley Heath, in a 'nice' house. Bob expressed some shock, 'Oh, I thought he'd live in a kind of slum', was his answer. You can make of this as you will! |
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02 Jan 05 - 09:42 AM (#1369328) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: JedMarum Good thoughts here, Art - (especially those expressed before you were attacked). What gives me serious pause now, as I work my way through this business is the sacrifice I ask of my wife and that is a regret you noted above too. I have not been much a provider these last few years ... and I have been gone a lot, too. |
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02 Jan 05 - 11:01 AM (#1369368) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST,Guest Kathleen in VA A couple of thoughts: 1)Anyone who puts art or music first in their lives has already decided that they want to create and express who they are rather than carry loads of money to the bank. It is a combination of talent, determination and luck that enables any artist to live " comfortably" in the world. ( plus maybe a significant other adding to the art income) 2)Folk Music in the 60's was also tied to a cultural envioromnent which happened to jettison many of those folks to national and worldwide visibility , hence, fame. The sang the right song at the right time to the right audience. 3) I think it's great that some people can earn a good income doing what they love to do..including folk music, carpentry, organic farming or anything...What's not so great is anybody assuming they have a right to millions just because they wrote a couple of songs. Grace has alot to do with how we succeed. For what it's worth... |
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02 Jan 05 - 11:06 AM (#1369372) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: JedMarum Well said Kathleen in VA. We started out discussing those at the top of the list - and while many are worthy of being there, only a few are lucky enough and good enough to make it there. |
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02 Jan 05 - 01:04 PM (#1369434) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Willie-O This thread is like a microcosm of the Mudcat, it has so many different directions. Sure some 60's "folksingers" made lots of money, and some of them still have it. Both of those clauses would apply to any other profession. What that has to do with deciding whether to pursue a career in what is loosely referred to as folk music in 2004, I don't have a clue. Unless you are thinking of starting a tribute band and must choose between Dylan and PPM. (I wouldn't go this way myself, A Mighty Wind was hilarious but died a thousand deaths at the box office). Matt (S, not R, let's note), meaning no disrespect, I get the impression you have this kind of "American Idol" concept of "folk music" as a route to make yourself a star. Makes me wonder, what if we told you all those 60's folk idols live in shacks now? Would you be checking out the earnings of 70's rock musicians or 50's doo-wop singers? If you are actually interested in the music, as you can see there is considerable knowledge here, and willingness to share it, from many who have pursued it as a vocation or avocation for several decades. If you are just looking for wealth, there are better ways to pursue it (start by going to business school) and then you can buy better guitars than most of us can afford. Warning: in folkie quarters such as this one you will find a certain resentment of the self-obsessed mindset of so many self-styled "folksingers" or singer-songwriters who have a single-minded ambition to climb to the top of the heap. "That's not where it's at." Perhaps you have already sensed this. But if folk, blues and acoustic music interests you for itself, join the Mudcat and hang around. We also get together in person now and then here and there in the widely scattered folk music universe Mudcatters are in USA, Canada, UK, Europe, Australia and God knows where else)--those meetings are always fun for sharing. Best Willie-O acerbic Canadian Catter |
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02 Jan 05 - 02:30 PM (#1369493) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Melani I think it's rather rare to make a really good living from music or any other performing art, for that matter. I just read a review of a play in the paper that mentioned the fine performance of one of the actors--it was the carpenter who built our back porch. The job took a little longer because he had to take off in the middle of the day for a voice-over audition. I have had the great good fortune to get to know a number of very fine musicians, and with the exception of a couple who are retired, they all have day jobs. Only one of them has a day job that has anything to do with music, and he also has to give tours and lock the restrooms. |
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02 Jan 05 - 03:53 PM (#1369549) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Georgiansilver 69 |
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02 Jan 05 - 04:14 PM (#1369565) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST I think if you look at a lot of the most successful Celtic music acts, you see many more musicians who have done well financially. None of them are filthy rich, but they do own their own nice homes, and make enough money to support their families, including providing them with health insurance, retirement income, vacation money, and the ability to pay for their children's education, the same way the rest of us do. Don't do what the majority have done Matt, and set your sets low. The point someone made above, about so many folk musicians now needing benefit gigs to pay for their health care, is well taken. So is the fact that nowadays, there aren't that many spouses/partners who are willing to have all the home responsibilities and financial burdens dumped on them by their "creative" other half. Nor should they have to put up with it. It is one thing to have both people working, so perhaps the health insurance is covered by the person with a job that provides it. But many creative couples don't have that option, so then you are looking at buying your own health insurance. I don't know if the unions still do that for musicians. I know the National Writers Union has had a hell of a time in recent years providing that for it's members. It is tricky to do this right, but I know quite a few Irish and Scots musicians who are doing very well. One duo I know of literally earned the money to pay cash for their houses (of course, they needed some serious remodeling, but that isn't the point) from two tours of the US and Canada, six months apart. You have to lay out that cash when you've got it though (as someone also pointed out above). Paddy Maloney of the Chieftains, just as a for instance, has a beautiful home in Ireland, edcuated his kids well, etc. but worked at all of that for many years. He didn't instantly have the dream home he has now--he and his wife worked at it for many, many years. Of course, many people begrudge the Chieftains their success, and blame them for everything they can think of, like having to pay royalties to perform traditional songs in pubs that the Chieftains recorded on their albums. Which is totally false, but that doesn't stop the begrudgers from whining about it. There is nothing noble about making the choice to be a professional musician, whatever genre, and then limiting your income potential just to appease your begrudger critics. The noble thing to do is to fight like hell to do what a lot of traditional and trad/roots Celtic acts have done, which is to raise the bar of professionalism for trad/folk music to put it on a par with other creative fields. And yes, that means the house payment, the college fund, the health insurance, the retirement accounts, etc etc. Nothing burns me up more than comfortable, middle class folk and trad music enthusiasts setting the bar low, and then demonizing musicians with high standards for themselves doing their music more professionally as a career that will support them and their family at the same standard of living that teachers and accountants have, rather than setting their sights low and earning just enough to get by. Your loved ones deserve much better than that. And I know more than a handful of professional musicians who went through a lot of heartbreak losing their 1st partners/families to learn that they owe just as much to their loved ones as their do their creative work. |
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02 Jan 05 - 05:54 PM (#1369612) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST as the previous Guest you refer to re being "well taken"....the above is well said! |
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02 Jan 05 - 06:31 PM (#1369639) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST Back at ya there 5:54. I never cease to be amazed at the stinginess in the folk music community about this subject, and the tendency so many have to demonize the musicians who are making their music pay well enough to comfortably support a family well, as if they had signed on for back up to Britney Spears or something. I want the world to love and respect the music AND the musicians. Not paying the musicians shit just marginalizes them and the music. Why shouldn't folk and traditional musicians be earning on a par with other professionals like teachers or hairdressers or nurses and doctors or attorneys and paralegals or what have you? Why shouldn't we be trying to raise appreciation of the music in the eyes of the music consuming public, to put folk and traditional music on a par with jazz or R & B or country or classical music? |
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02 Jan 05 - 07:34 PM (#1369691) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: coldjam There is an income to be made in middle America without being a super star,in many of the arts.This is not to set the bar low, but to show a way of life that encompases making music/art, and at the same time being able to support oneself in what,(in America, but way more in most of the rest of world), would be a humble/adequate lifestyle.Intelligence and discipline has to play a part;for instance, rather than needing extensive health-care, a performer has to actually make taking care of their body/instrument a part of the package. |
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02 Jan 05 - 09:04 PM (#1369746) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST,Guest, Kathleen in VA Coldjam..you have a sensible way of speaking! The American dream that young folks look at in this millenium requires a dedication to make ALOT of money, while the " humble/adequate " lifestyle you speak of could well be a high standard of living for many folks in the world. We have a skewed picture of " success" as delivered in the media and also handed down to us by the upstairs/downstairs class struggles that many generations have moved through. Folk Music as it is and was never seemed to me to represent for the upper class, however... work done well should be rewarded by a decent fee. Nobody could ever begrudge a decent wage to the hard travelling bands ( i.e. the Battle field Band..The Chieftains, etc) because they are Excellent musicians and professionals. I would love to see all the fine, talented, hard working, longtime career folkies earning enough to care for themselves, families, and their bodies so that they can retire in good health! So, whoever you are , coldjam, three cheers for you, too. |
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02 Jan 05 - 10:56 PM (#1369793) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: johnross I strongly suspect that there's a lot more money in composer's royalties than in concert fees, for that small number of songwriters who write a significant hit song. I have no knowledge of specific numbers, but I remember Ewan MacColl ruefully commenting in about 1982 that the royalties from "The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face" were now less than half of his annual income. Of course, I've also seen a quarterly royalty check from BMI to a well-known singer/songwriter for sixteen cents. But when a song becomes a "standard", it turns into a money machine. The extreme example was Mel Torme, who wrote "The Christmas Song" (Chestnuts roasting...). His annual royalty on that one song was in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. |
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02 Jan 05 - 11:00 PM (#1369794) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST,Art Thieme Might I suggest you join the Folk Alliance. The Folk Alliance is high-powered for sure, but they have more of a srious business-like atitude about things folk than anyone ever has. Agents, managers, product manufacturing, connecting with record companies. As far as networking goes, their annual convention is tops---that whether you are just schmoozing with friends of old, as many of us "old fogey folkies" seem to do there mainly, or if you actually seem to fit in this brave new folk world that is so incomprehensible to the likes of me. In the same way that the old Mountain Men were not wanting to participate in what the West became later, many of us that see this folk music the way I always have just sort of sit back and watch the passing parade and wonder how the next generation will figure out to outrage earlier folks. When folks need what we saved, we are right there to "guide" newcomers back to the future to teach them how we got from there to here IF they want to know.--- Those old Mountain Men fur trappers (we were song trappers) were the only ones with the knowledge to guide the people West after the beaver were gone. They knew the Indian paths--and a few more to boot. Back to money:----For me, this discussion of money is after the fact and a bit of a moot point since I'm out of the loop these days. Keep in mind that talking about money to us older ones who are off the road is alot like comparing what cash Jackie Robinson made to what Barry Bonds or Sammy Sosa is making. It's rather frustrating when I think what fees I settled for, but what the hell, you good people today need so damn much more cash just to have a standard of living similar to the one like Jed Marum described. Just paying the astronomical rents charged here and now in the USA would be impossible for Carol and I if we weren't living in a HUD building. You kids need astronomical amounts of cash just to break even. In spite of what I think folk music IS, I can see that the Folk Alliance attitudes toward this scene as a business is the way to go for you singer-songwriters and world-music-fusion practitioners. I wish you all the best. It's a wondrous road you've chosen!!! ENJOY Art Thieme |
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03 Jan 05 - 10:50 AM (#1370021) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Peter T. I am in favour of folk singers being declared national treasures and given an income. Interesting to compare this kind of a discussion to one involving old black blues men and women. I would have thought a basic rule was to go to a country with universal health care. yours, Peter T. |
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03 Jan 05 - 11:17 AM (#1370041) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Once Famous Pick a socialist country. If you declare folk singers a national treasure and give them an income, I would think that people who really toil for a living might just have a problem. |
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03 Jan 05 - 11:23 AM (#1370045) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST Some countries are actually supportive of the arts and artists, the way the US is of it's big money sports. I prefer the former, personally. Also, there are countries that give tax breaks to individual artists instead of owners of major league teams. Depends on your values and priorities, really. I think the US has their heads up their arses when it comes to this sort of thing. |
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03 Jan 05 - 11:56 AM (#1370077) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Once Famous Except that the countries that you mentioned are probably piss poor and also make income selling postage stamps of acts like the 3 Stooges or Britainy Spears. Sorry, pal. You can have those type of countries. No one, I am sure is breaking their doors down to get in to them, unlike the USA where we still let people in for real opportunities to better their life. |
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03 Jan 05 - 11:57 AM (#1370079) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Rapparee Martin, Ireland is one of them. And believe me, it's no longer poor! |
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03 Jan 05 - 12:11 PM (#1370090) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Once Famous But they have lousy baseball teams. |
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03 Jan 05 - 12:15 PM (#1370092) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Raggytash Don't know of this has been said before, I've not read all the thread, but what the f*8k has it got to do with you |
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03 Jan 05 - 12:43 PM (#1370118) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Once Famous Read all of the thread before you shoot off your fat mouth, Baggyrash. Here's my opinion: governments paying folksingers to sing folkmusic is stupid. I don't care if it is happening in Ireland. |
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03 Jan 05 - 12:44 PM (#1370119) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST,Art Thieme Martin, What part of Chicago are you in? Which, for you, are the most fascinating parts o' town.(obvious thread creep) Art |
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03 Jan 05 - 01:55 PM (#1370181) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: coldjam I guess I would take umbrage at the comment made by the "thread creep" that compares folk singers to folks "who really toil for a living". There is so much more involved than just getting up and singing some folk songs. There are hours of practice and learning your instrument(s), working on your voice, memorizing words and progressions etc, then there are the hours of research, and contacting places to perform,booking yourself, office work that goes along with all that, and then getting to the gig and back,sometimes having to find a place to spend the night,having a vehicle and equipment and time to do it all, and being in good enough shape and health to get up and sing the song.All this is done with no monetary pay.Oh,I forgot to mention the job most of them have to get to afford to do this and the free time to actually create something new songwise. It ain't digging ditches, but it's right in there with a full days work-and then some! Which brings me back to some advice for the guy who started all this (Matt): be excellent at what you do, contantly look for ways to improve, and learn from the pros like Art and Jed. Don't expect people to pay you for just getting up and singing your favorite songs without the excellence. |
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03 Jan 05 - 08:37 PM (#1370518) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: coldjam *blushes* Oops sorry.Think I misunderstood the thread creep comment! No offense meant. |
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04 Jan 05 - 01:13 AM (#1370652) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST,Art Thieme None taken. ;-) I just figured I'd, once again, said something more than what I thought I said. I was just trying to get info from M.G. about him and Chicago--which was off topic. Art |
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04 Jan 05 - 04:46 AM (#1370697) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Peter Kasin Well, I'm a federal employee of the National Park Service, and parks hire folk musicians. We have a sea music festival and a sea music concert series at our park, and traditional music plays a role in our interpretive programs, as it does in several other parks. Funding comes from a combination of each park's individual budgets, and private monies from national park cooperating associations, which raise money to support parks. Now, this is diferent than what Peter T suggests, but still an example of a branch of the federal government that does recognise the role folk music plays in our society and in interpreting our heritage. Martin, would the above example give you cause to modify what appears to be your blanket rejection of govt support for folk musicians (and sorry if I'm mis-reading you), and that some limited govt support for folk musicians in specific contexts is wise? My own position is somewhere between yours and Peter T.'s. While I do not advocate folk musicians as a whole being declared national treasures, and as such being taken out of the marketplace (because I do not value myself as a musician above firefighters, police, nurses, etc., etc.,) I do think the federal govt has a role in supporting music in specific contexts. Chanteyranger |
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04 Jan 05 - 05:33 PM (#1371374) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: PoppaGator Here in New Orleans, there is a "Jazz National Park" ~ a unique entity, as far as I know ~ and I know of at least two fine musicians who have day jobs there as uniformed Park Rangers: Bruce "Sunpie" Barnes and Matt Hempsey. In this capacity, they occasionally perform themselves, and regularly (daily, or almost daily) organize and supervise lectures and concerts. Providing jobs like these, and hiring musicians regularly for performances, seems like an appropriate role for government in supporting the arts. I am less enthusiastic about designating a lucky few performers as "national treasures" and providing full-time lifetime incomes ~ who would decide which individuals receive such coveted status? I can't imagine the process NOT being rife with corruption. |
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04 Jan 05 - 05:56 PM (#1371405) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: coldjam This is too funny and too stupid on my part not to confess...Art I thought you were referring to "Martin" as the "thread creep",kind of a good-natured dig at him or something.I understand now what you meant!I guess it's apparent I am pretty new at all this. My apologies to Martin as well. |
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04 Jan 05 - 07:16 PM (#1371507) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST,Diogenes |
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04 Jan 05 - 07:18 PM (#1371511) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: GUEST,Diogenes Hell, coldjam, don't apologise to Martin Gibson. He IS the thread creep! |
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04 Jan 05 - 08:10 PM (#1371555) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: RobbieWilson It has always amazed me how little regard the great british public pays to folk music and folk musicians and as a result how you can still get to see the most amazingly talented people at small, low price gigs. The top names in folk music still have to work excedingly hard to make a modest living and they really are the very small tip of a huge iceberg of people who are out there performing in pubs, clubs, festivals, groups of friends. If you are thinking about whether you can make a living do something you want to do anyway I think you must first establish that you have sufficient talent and charisma to make people around you want to see you perform then look to widen the circle in which you are successful, rather than look at whether people who moved in a different world 40 years ago and who were truly exceptional are making big bucks. Play because you enjoy it, or because you have something important to say. If you are incredibly lucky as well as exceptionally gifted you may make money out of it but you cant know that without being out there doing it. love robbie |
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04 Jan 05 - 09:24 PM (#1371599) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: emjay I looked at this thread because it's a subject that often comes up. We listen to wonderful musicians making great music and know that almost no one around us has ever even heard of these people. So -- we wonder how much money do they make? Are they paid any where near what they deserve compared to the popular musicians who are rich.? And whatever anyone else thinks, I think our culture/our country values the arts too little. We all benefit from the arts--music as well as the visual arts and theater and dance and I wonder why we give athletes multi-million dollar contracts but a folk musician who preserves something of value barely pays for his or her bread. (I love baseball and its overpaid practitioners, and I am an artist who has never come close to making a living at it so of course I have given the topic some thought. ) This is a particular topic that I really do care about, and I never even thought the question was intended to be intrusive. |
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04 Jan 05 - 10:41 PM (#1371645) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Peter Kasin PoppaGator, New Orleans Jazz NHS sounds like a wonderful park. I've heard much about it. I'm probably ranger Barnes and Hempsey's equivalent at the park where I work, as I'm also a uniformed ranger who occasionaly performs on the job, and organizes concerts and music festivals. One other example of the federal government sponsoring folk music was the commissioning of Woody Guthrie to write songs about federal projects (Grand Coulee Dam, etc.) Chanteyranger |
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05 Jan 05 - 12:33 PM (#1372166) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: coldjam There may also be a danger in the folk process, if they are paid too well (at least at first) that they may forget what they DID have to say, and get too caught up in the money and the life.I say "may" cause I don't know. I'd like to find out though! Part of what folk music is, is sharing the plight of the underdog, at least for a while.Celebrity changes a lot, which I think may be what Dylan was trying to share in his book. Whaddya think? |
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05 Jan 05 - 01:33 PM (#1372207) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Leadfingers I got turned on to playing music for other people to enjoy in my late teens , when I was NOT in a position to do it seriously for money as I was in the Armed Forces . By the time I was a civilian again , my music had turned from Jazz to Folk and after a couple of years I slung the Day job and went pro. I lasted three years and finished up back at a day job and playing music as a self supporting hobby , until I was 'in the right place at the right time' and started being serious (and Semi Pro) . During the day job years I was able to get some decent instruments and equipment together and at the age of 61 slung the day job again and now am a Jobbing pro musician/singer . I have somewhere to keep my gear , a small second hand car , and can go out for a beer (or buy a bottle of decent whisky) more or less when I want . Wealthy I will never be , but I am rich in good musical friends , have my health , and STILL enjoy entertaining people . |
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05 Jan 05 - 01:34 PM (#1372208) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Leadfingers And to add to my own feeling of well being ---- |
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05 Jan 05 - 01:34 PM (#1372209) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: Leadfingers Another 100th post |
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05 Jan 05 - 02:48 PM (#1372265) Subject: RE: Famous Folk Singers And Wealth From: PoppaGator Chanteyranger -- now I understand your nickname! I'm curious about the park where you work; I was not aware that there was any other "park" in the country like the one we have here (which isn't so much as "park" as a series of programs operating out of a couple of buildings in the French Quarter). Sunpie Barnes is a fairly well-known local performer who fronts his own zydeco band on a squeezebox of some kind. Matt Hempsey is a young guitar player and a (relatively) recent graduate of the Jazz Studies program at UNO (U. of New Orleans, of course). Matt's not as well-known by name as his colleague, but gets plenty of work backing up others in various groups, working in all kinds of genres. They aren't generally seen wearing their Smokey-the Bear hats after 5 p.m. ;^) |