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25 Nov 98 - 11:19 PM (#46830) Subject: Lyr Add: JOHN MACLEAN MARCH From: John in Brisbane Another one from Tartan Army - the tune quoted is 'Scotland The Brave', but I can't get it to fit. Any ideas from fellow Mudactters?
Regards
John Maclean March
Hey, mac, did ye see him as he cam doun by Gorgie |
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26 Nov 98 - 10:01 PM (#46915) Subject: RE: LYR ADD: John Maclean March From: Bill Cameron Dick Gaughan sings it to a tune that is close to the A part of Scotland the Brave--but not the same. You could use StB--just not the B part. Its on his first solo album, No More Forever (Trailer Records, 1977.) This song fascinates me, and I have been trying to learn it, partially because I think my dad and grandfather may have been at the event described. (They emigrated from Glasgow in 1919, I believe Maclean was released in 1918, and my grandpa was a strong union man.) Bill |
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27 Nov 98 - 01:33 AM (#46936) Subject: RE: LYR ADD: John Maclean March From: John in Brisbane I only know of the event from having researched the lyrics and tune. Is there any more you could tell us please?
Regards |
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01 Dec 98 - 03:32 AM (#47452) Subject: RE: John Maclean March: more info From: skw@ John, here's what I found on the song, the event and John MacLean's story: [1977:] The John MacLean March had its first performance in the St. Andrews Hall, Glasgow, at the memorial [concert?] to the great Scottish republican socialist on 28 Nov. 1948, where it was sung by William Noble. It is set to a traditional version of a pipe melody that is today played and sung all over Scotland to the more commercially patriotic verses of Scotland the Brave. The song is notable for its gradual build-up to the conclusion, where another of Henderson's mythic figures - the proletarian teacher and leader, imprisoned and tortured for his beliefs - rests and sleeps in an ordinary worker's home. The singer is a representative Clydesider addressing firstly other lowlanders like himself ('Mac', 'Jock' and 'Jimmy'), next a Highlander and an immigrant from Ireland, in a wonderful rendering of facetious working-class camaraderie which enables the Hero to be seen as in principle no different from those who are welcoming him - from 'Wull' who 'grips his banner weel (that boy isna blate)', and which therefore makes the other heroes who are Maclean's mates, Lenin and Liebknecht, our mates too. In the second last stanza 'Glasgie, oor city' becomes 'the haill world beside'; next, at the beginning of the last verse, the vision contracts to a little room and a domestic scene (once more, the values of Burns's Cotter!) where the hero rests with his freens, before expanding into the resounding crescendo of the monosyllabic hammer-blows to which all Scotland will march now 'Great John Maclean has come hame to the Clyde'. The final synthesis is between him and us, between Hero and home - an ordinary, small family home where comradeship and sharing prevail. (Thomas Crawford, notes 'Freedom come all ye - Songs and Poems of Hamish Henderson') [1988:] The great protagonist of adult education was teacher John MacLean (1879-1923), who began his political life in the SDF [Social Democratic Federation] and who until his death conducted classes in economics all over Scotland. MacLean, the son of a Pollokshaws potter, was one of the theorists of socialism as well as being a great propagandist. He wanted to fight the war against capitalism, and not the capitalists' war of 1914-18. In 1918 Lenin appointed him as Scottish Consul to the Bolshevik government. MacLean's recognition of the potential for revolution in Scotland during the Great War and after made him a danger to the government. He was repeatedly jailed for his political opinions and so badly treated that he died prematurely at the age of 44. As well as having a portrait and photographs of MacLean, the People's Palace [in Glasgow] has his desk and some of his personal items, including his university passes and literature from the Scottish Workers' Republican Party which was founded by him. (Elspeth King, The People's Palace 72) [1988:] He was a schoolteacher [...] too old himself to go to the war, but he advised the young men of Scotland not to go fighting but stay at home and help the country from the inside. He was taken to court, found guilty of sedition and sentenced to seven years in a very tough prison in Scotland. It's hard to believe now but the Glasgow people complained so loudly at this savage prison sentence that the government was embarrassed, and after a few weeks they allowed the man out of prison - very quietly, but somehow the word came back to Glasgow. And when he arrived there were two hundred thousand people to meet him in the railway station. (Intro Iain MacKintosh) [1990:] Teuchter: mildly derogatory Lowlanders' word for a Highlander. Its etymology is totally obscure and I have never heard a satisfactory explanation. (Sean Damer, Glasgow: going for a song 109) Standard works on John MacLean by John Broom and Nan Milton, both 1973. |
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01 Dec 98 - 03:35 PM (#47523) Subject: RE: LYR ADD: John Maclean March From: dick greenhaus Both the lyrics and the tune are in the DT database: tune is vaguely related to Scotland the Brave, but certainly not the same. |
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26 Jul 02 - 11:57 AM (#754998) Subject: RE: LYR ADD: John Maclean March From: GUEST,Jim McLean There's also a Gaelic poem by Sorley MacLean: In English it reads: Not they who died in the hauteur of Inverkeithing, in spite of valour and pride, the high head of our story, but he who was in Glasgow the battle-post of the poor, great John MacLean, the top and hem of our story. I also have a broadsheet, double page music sheet, published by The Scottish Workers' Music Association. The three line notation is hand writen and just gives the credits as words by Hamish Henderson/Music trad arr. HH A further credit on the back page reads: First sung by William Noble at the John MacLean Memorial Meeting in the St. Andrews Halls, 28th November. 1948. The front has a picture of MACLEAN 1879 - 1923 and a quote from the above poem. |
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18 Mar 16 - 07:07 AM (#3779552) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: John Maclean March From: GUEST,Lighter I agree with Dick that the "MacLean" tune is not that of "Scotland the Brave," though it is sometimes claimed to be. Nor is it that of "The Bloody Fields of Flanders," as a Scottish educational website assures us. What *was* the tune's name? |
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18 Mar 16 - 08:50 AM (#3779565) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: John Maclean March From: JenBurdoo It seems fairly close to the first half of Scotland the Brave, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was derived. The tune itself may not be named John MacLean's March, because I'm pretty sure I've heard an instrumental tune by that name. MacLean seems to have been the British equivalent of Eugene Debs (or vice versa!) - both were socialists and anti-war activists imprisoned during WWI. I've never heard any songs about Debs though. I first heard of MacLean in the McAuslan stories by George MacDonald Fraser - a minor character is a die-hard Communist (in 1946) and a platoon sergeant in the Gordon Highlanders. He refers to MacLean's rallies and has a friendly enmity with his son-of-a-baronet platoon commander. Anyone know the chords, or if the song is under copyright? I wouldn't mind recording it. |
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18 Mar 16 - 10:41 AM (#3779591) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: John Maclean March From: Jack Campin The words will be copyright, since Henderson only died a few years ago, but he wouldn't have wanted his copyright enforced - he preferred his songs to float off into tradition. The tune is a slight variant of "Scotland the Brave" (or "Brave Scotland") as first published around 1880, so that will certainly be public domain. Henderson would not have wanted any harmonization to become "standard" - make up your own. In the early published versions of the song Henderson doesn't name the tune - simply describes it as "traditional". It was probably not very well known by name at the time, since Hanley's words for it (the ones everybody knows) date from a year later. |
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18 Mar 16 - 12:02 PM (#3779608) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: John Maclean March From: mayomick Hugh MacDiarmuid's poem "John MacLean" here : https://books.google.ie/books?id=uHtmyCRVVP0C&pg=PA161&lpg=PA161&dq=hugh+macdiarmid+poems+online+john+maclean&source=bl&ots=AEwn |
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18 Mar 16 - 02:28 PM (#3779633) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: John Maclean March From: GUEST,Darker How about 'Bonnie Glenshee'. |
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18 Mar 16 - 03:05 PM (#3779639) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: John Maclean March From: JenBurdoo I've worked out the chords - the primary differences are in the first two lines. I'll try writing it using Rise Up Singing layout. I just bought a ukulele and am experimenting with it at work, so using CDG chords: Scotland the Brave: GGGG CGDD GGGG CGDG becomes John MacLean's March: GGCC DDCD (could also be DDGD?) GGGG CGDG |
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18 Mar 16 - 05:20 PM (#3779664) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: John Maclean March From: Jack Campin How about 'Bonnie Glenshee'. How about "Happy Birthday to You"? It's got about as much to do with it. |
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19 Mar 16 - 02:19 PM (#3779856) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: John Maclean March From: akenaton It's definitely a pipe march....I've heard it several times at the CHG Don't think it's properly traditional, probably been amended slightly for the song. |
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20 Mar 16 - 10:46 PM (#3780054) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: John Maclean March From: JenBurdoo Here's a dialect question - what does "blate" mean? Given the context it might be "unwilling" or "shy." |
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20 Mar 16 - 11:14 PM (#3780059) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: John Maclean March From: JenBurdoo Also, "thrang?" |
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21 Mar 16 - 02:13 AM (#3780066) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: John Maclean March From: Dave Hanson blate = stupid or slow minded. Dave H |
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21 Mar 16 - 02:36 AM (#3780069) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: John Maclean March From: akenaton Thrang .......obstinate...quick tae rouse...the opposite of blate. |