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01 Feb 05 - 02:53 PM (#1395930) Subject: BS: Iraq Vote Turnout From: GUEST,guest from NW a number of figures have been tossed around on various threads about the turnout for this election. i'm curious. what we know:the votes are to be hand-counted so we won't know results for days. the country is under martial law, restrictions of travel, curfews, making the collection and tabulation of votes even slower and more complicated. the only election "observers" were not onsite but in jordan. the footage of iraq voters were taken in limited areas and footage pooled by the networks. hence my query. does anyone know or have any info about how these numbers for turnout percentages were calculated? are they just numbers the coporate media are throwing out and then counting on the usual braindead repeaters to holler them over and over enough (EVERYONE knows the turnout was huge! 60, 70 percent!! EVERYONE is reporting that, you idiot!) or is there some agency, some organization, somebody credible that can give any of these numbers any validity? |
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01 Feb 05 - 04:47 PM (#1396047) Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Vote Turnout From: Nerd Actually, what the news outlets I've seen have been careful to say are "turnout was sixty percent in most precincts." That could still be thirty-five percent nationwide! |
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01 Feb 05 - 05:29 PM (#1396101) Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Vote Turnout From: GUEST,Frank Nerd, We will never really know. Bush will put a spin on it and the media will follow in lockstep. Also, we will never know the real outcome because the election is being manipulated by the Occupiers. I bet they see that the dictator Allawi is put in. My prediction. I'd love to be wrong. There was fraud in Afghanistan, although Karzai would have probably eventually won. Bush wanted it in time for his election so they hurried it up. There was fraud in Ohio and Florida and no one wants to own it except Barbara Boxer and the Black Caucus. Frank |
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02 Feb 05 - 12:01 AM (#1396523) Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Vote Turnout From: Boab In the fall of 1967 there was an election in Vietnam. Circumstances were uncannily similar. A 83% voter turn out was acclaimed. A victory for "democracy" was trumpeted to all the world--from the same sources which are making similar noises today. All the world knows what happened subsequently. Has Vietnam become an evil influence on the Earth? Chickens are being counted all over the place in the wake of the high vote in Iraq; all the eggs aren't even laid yet! It'll all settle down again----if the interlopers go home, as they did once before. |
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02 Feb 05 - 12:41 AM (#1396553) Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Vote Turnout From: GUEST,guest from NW :here is some interesting number crunching i found... "The widely-publicized estimates a few hours ago from Iraq election officials of 72% turnout has already been cut to about 57% from the same officials. Dexter Filkins of The New York Times reported at midday: "The chairman of the Independent Election Commission of Iraq, Fareed Ayar, said as many as 8 million people turned out to vote, or between 55 percent and 60 percent of those registered to cast ballots. If 8 million turns out to be the final figure, that would represent 57 percent of voters." The question remains: what percentage of the population chose to register? What percentage of adult citizens participated? Iraq has a population of at least 25 million, plus expatriates were allowed to vote overseas. (emphasis added, "Iraq, the Vote: The Press Sizes Up the Election," Editor & Publisher, January 30, 2005) All good questions. I'd also ask where the Independent [sic] Election Commission of Iraq got the figure of 8 million voters. The answer is that's exactly the same number the commission predicted before the elections: A senior election official estimates that half of Iraq's 15 million eligible voters ["[t]here are 14 million eligible voters inside Iraq . . . plus 1.2 million abroad allowed to vote in 14 countries including the United States, Britain, Iran and Syria"] will take part in this month's national election and says that to encourage a high turnout, those living in insurgency-racked areas will be allowed to vote in safer communities. Farid Ayar of Iraq's Independent Electoral Commission said he expected 7 to 8 million Iraqis to vote on Jan. 30 in a ballot seen as a major step toward fulfilling U.S. goals of building democracy here after decades of Saddam Hussein's tyranny. (emphasis added, Hamza Hendawi/Associated Press, "Half of Iraq Population Estimated to Vote," January 14, 2005) What precision! A sign that elections in Iraq have been raised to the level of science, far superior to the 4-billion-dollar election industry in the United States that showed disturbing discrepancies between exit polls and vote tallies? Not! A safer hypothesis is that it's a sign of how scripted Iraqi elections were. If Washington needs about 8 million Iraqi voters to achieve a "respectable" turnout of half the eligible voters (Hendawi, January 14, 2005), the Independent [sic] Election Commission of Iraq has to give that number to Washington before and after the elections. After all, "demonstration elections" are theater -- for the American, rather than Iraqi, audience." |
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02 Feb 05 - 01:24 AM (#1396579) Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Vote Turnout From: dianavan At least Canadian broadcasters have the grace to use the word 'apparently' before they talk about the number of voters in Iraq. Then they interviewed an Iraqi (about 40 years old) who was waiting in line for gasoline. They asked him if he had voted. He laughed and said, "Yes, but I'm not sure who I voted for!" He went on to say he didn't really care who won as long as they could get the economy rolling again. Another Iraqi said whoever wins had better tell the U.S. to get out. He said that after that, he'd give the new govt. one year to restore electricity and pipelines. If there wasn't a turn around in one year, he said he would be ready to join the insurgents. I marvelled at how much they seemed just like most folks. Basically, they didn't care who was in power (this time) they just wanted to get on with life. |
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02 Feb 05 - 01:51 AM (#1396584) Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Vote Turnout From: DougR What difference does it make. The only figures you posters will believe will be those that show the election was a huge failure. DougR |
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02 Feb 05 - 03:06 AM (#1396616) Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Vote Turnout From: dianavan DougR - Let me ask you this: If someone lies to you, how long does it take before you trust them again? I think that many posters do not trust the figures put forth by the Bush administration because Bush has a history of lies and deceit. The entire Bush family has made a forturne based on lies and deceit and they also have a history of showing a wanton disregard for human life. I don't believe any politician, let alone, Bush. |
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02 Feb 05 - 03:24 AM (#1396621) Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Vote Turnout From: GUEST,guest from NW "What difference does it make." the difference between truth and lies. when having a choice, i'd prefer to hear the truth. even if i don't agree with it, i'd rather hear it. don't you care whether what you hear is true or not dougR? have you no intellectual curiousity? i already know your critical thinking skills are weak, but surely you can't enjoy being lied to, can you? "The only figures you posters will believe will be those that show the election was a huge failure." this just shows once again (as if anyone didn't know by now) that your basic MO is stereotyping, no facts, no discussion of the issue. no CURIOUSITY. no answers. did you read the question? i've been looking for any sources that can show how these numbers were generated. i haven't found much. it's looking like someone, somewhere, is making this stuff up. you, yourself, said that it will take DAYS until results are known, yet you blindly accept a bunch of numbers that fit what you'd like to believe, even tho the methodology doesn't add up AT ALL. i will believe the figures that have some sources and documentation behind them whether they indicate failure or success. |
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02 Feb 05 - 03:32 AM (#1396628) Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Vote Turnout From: Peace Wasn't it Stalin who said something like, 'You don't have to control the people who vote; you just have to control the people who COUNT the vote'? |