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09 Feb 05 - 02:03 AM (#1403399) Subject: BS: Feds' National ID Steamrolling States From: Amos Some background on John's lawsuit is here: http://papersplease.org/gilmore/ -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Politech] Analysis of new driver's license/national ID House bill [priv] Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 15:50:01 -0800 From: John Gilmore To: Declan McCullagh CC: politech@politechbot.com James Plummer forgot one important thing about the national networked ID card the Feds are trying to create. The Federal government can't force state governments to do anything about this. It's the choice of the states whether to become more intrusive or less intrusive about their citizens' privacy. Here's the catch. If your state doesn't knuckle under to the Feds, nobody from your state will be allowed to travel after the deadline. The "intel bill" (9/11 Intelligence Reorg law) specifies that non- compliant IDs will not be accepted "for federal purposes" after two years. Getting TSA's permission to get on a plane is a "federal purpose". In a non-insane country, the Federal government would be unable to threaten to take away its citizens' right to travel inside the country. The right to travel is protected by the Constitution (you can't assemble unless you can travel) and by many Supreme Court decisions. But the courts have taken years to chew on this question, and meanwhile there are guys with guns in airports and train stations, keeping ME from traveling. Most people just don't believe their OWN travel will ever be restricted by the Federal government, therefore they don't protest. When they have living proof, it'll be too late. John _______________________________________________ Politech mailing list Archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ Moderated by Declan McCullagh (http://www.mccullagh.org/) |
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09 Feb 05 - 02:03 AM (#1403400) Subject: RE: BS: Feds' National ID Steamrolling States From: Amos The bill that I placed online here: http://www.politechbot.com/docs/drivers.license.bill.012605.pdf And that we've discussed over the last two weeks is now available on a government site as HR418: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:h.r.00418: The news is that the House of Representatives is about to hold a floor vote on HR418 under a special "suspension" calendar that is supposed to be reserved for noncontroversial legislation. See the Majority Whip's notice saying the vote will be held Wednesday or Thursday: http://majoritywhip.house.gov/whipnotice.asp Also see a note below from the Bill of Rights Defense Committee on HR418, and while we're at it, a note about a "broadcast decency" vote on Wednesday afternoon. -Declan -------- Original Message -------- Subject: BORDC Action Alert: House to vote on REAL ID Act this week Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 15:09:57 -0500 From: Bill of Rights Defense Committee To: Dear Friends: The House of Representatives is scheduled to take up Rep. Sensenbrenner's REAL ID Act (H.R. 418) next WEDNESDAY, with a vote likely THURSDAY, FEB. 10. Sending refugees who have fled torture, rape, and other brutal human rights abusers back to their tormenters and deporting long-term residents for charity contributions they made long ago will not make Americans safer from terrorism. Yet sections of H.R. 418 would do just that. To avoid debate over the bill's controversial provisions, the sponsor plans to attach his bill to a fast-approaching "must pass" bill, such as the the Iraqi supplemental spending bill or the relief bill for tsunami victims. Summaries of a few troubling sections and a sample phone script follow. Here are links for more information: * Bill text, list of cosponsors, and status: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:HR00418:@@@L&summ2=m& * Contact information for your representative: http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/ * Good analysis of the bill by the American Immigration Lawyers Association: http://www.aila.org/contentViewer.aspx?bc=10,911,5516,8191 * Human Rights First web page where you can send your representative an instant message: http://action.humanrightsfirst.org/campaign/REAL_ID_Act?source=ga_adv_realid Summary: You may recognize parts of H.R. 418 as the most troubling sections of H.R. 10, which the conference committee for the Intelligence Reform bills rejected as too extreme, unrelated to intelligence or anti-terrorism, and in conflict with the 9/11 Commission's recommendations. Among the sections of most concern are: * Section 101, which enables a judge to deny a refugee asylum if she is unable to track down specific documents that corroborate her claims--even if the U.S. State Department confirms that the country from which the refugee has fled never provides the documents--and bars other judges from reversing their determinations because the corroborating evidence is not available. * Sections 103 and 104 would permit long-term legal U.S. residents to be deported for having given contributions years ago to organizations that later fit the Bush administration's profile of a terrorist organization, even if they are not on a list of named terrorist organizations. Sample Phone Script: Please contact your Representative by phone and explain why you oppose some of the bill's provisions. For example, "I urge you to oppose H.R. 418's provisions that will make it much harder for legitimate refugees to gain asylum and place them at greater risk of being deported back into the hands of their persecutors." Bill of Rights Defense Committee Web: www.bordc.org Email: info@bordc.org Phone: 413-582-0110 Fax: 413-582-0116 ------ |
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09 Feb 05 - 11:47 AM (#1403619) Subject: RE: BS: Feds' National ID Steamrolling States From: GUEST Not only are the feds creating a national ID card; in Section 202(b)(6) they are introducing nationwide mandatory residential address registration. These developments do not bode will for our country. Residential address registries are used by many governments to restrict and control where people can live and travel. In many countries, the police can stop anyone without cause and demand their papers. (Mandatory residential registration, combined with the requirement to carry one's ID -- "papers" back then -- is what enabled the Nazis to round up Jews and others so efficiently.) Such practices as residential registrations and "papers", so I thought, are totally at odds with everything America stands for. That appears to be changing now. The Supreme Court has recently ruled (in the Hiibel case) that the police can demand ID for no reason. And now this. Mandatory verification of residential addresses will do absolutely nothing to increase security: The law will be evaded by those who desire to do so, and in any event there is nothing (as yet) to stop a person from moving to a different address the day after the license is issued. The requirement is just more mindless collection of data, one more mindless invasion of privacy, and one more way that this administration is reducing "freedom" to an Orwellian slogan. |
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09 Feb 05 - 12:23 PM (#1403635) Subject: RE: BS: Feds' National ID Steamrolling States From: GUEST,artbrooks Don't hold your breath. Many foolish resolutions are introduced in the House that go nowhere. |
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09 Feb 05 - 04:59 PM (#1403754) Subject: RE: BS: Feds' National ID Steamrolling States From: Amos http://www.politechbot.com/docs/bush.id.endorsement.020905.pdf contains the Statementof Administration Policy on 418, strongly supporting it: "The Administration strongly supports House passage of H.R. 418, to strengthen the ability of the United States to protect against terrorist entry into and activities within the United States. In particular, the legislation tightens procedures for non-citizen entry into and presence in the United States, facilitates the building of physical barriers where appropriate to protect U.S. borders, and facilitates the strengthening by the States of the standards for the security and integrity of drivers' licenses. The Administration supports the provisions in H.R. 418 to strengthen the standards for issuance of drivers' licenses. The Administration will work with Congress to clarify the definition of "official purpose" for which licenses or identification cards may be accepted by Federal agencies. The Administration will work with Congress to consider providing authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security to ensure individuals with licenses or identification cards that do not meet the full criteria in this bill could not use these documents to access non-Federal critical infrastructure or to operate certain large vehicles. The Administration will also work with Congress to consider biometric screening of individuals who cannot otherwise satisfactorily demonstrate citizenship or lawful immigration status. Biometric screening, which is applied to most entering classes of aliens through the US-VISIT program, would be a valuable tool in identifying possible links to terrorism. The Administration supports the provision in H.R. 418 regarding asylum reform, provided that Congress includes a provision to rescind asylee adjustment caps and makes other technical changes to ensure the changes do not unintentionally create new barriers to asylum. The Administration also supports provisions tightening non-citizen entry, but notes that some of these provisions would require refinement to ensure consistency with foreign policy priorities." http://www.house.gov/rules/109rulehr418.htm shows the adjustment being made ont he procedural rules in order to psuh throough a floor vote on 418. H.R. 418 – REAL ID Act of 2005 1. General debate rule. 2. Provides one hour of debate and 40 minutes of general debate, with 40 minutes equally divided and controlled by the chairman and ranking minority member of the Committee on the Judiciary, 40 minutes equally divided and controlled by the chairman and ranking minority memebr of the Committee on Government Reform, and 20 minutes equally divided and controlled by the chairman and ranking minority member of the Committee on Homeland Security. 3. Waives all points of order against consideration of the bill. 4. Provides that after general debate the Committee of the Whole shall rise without motion and no further consideration of the bill shall be in order except by a subsequent order of the House. --------- RESOLUTION Resolved, That at any time after the adoption of this resolution the Speaker may, pursuant to clause 2(b) of rule XVIII, declare the House resolved into the Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union for consideration of the bill (H.R. 418) to establish and rapidly implement regulations for State driver's license and identification document security standards, to prevent terrorists from abusing the asylum laws of the United States, to unify terrorism-related grounds for inadmissibility and removal, and to ensure expeditious construction of the San Diego border fence. The first reading of the bill shall be dispensed with. All points of order against consideration of the bill are waived. General debate shall be confined to the bill and shall not exceed one hour and 40 minutes, with 40 minutes equally divided and controlled by the chairman and ranking minority member of the Committee on the Judiciary; 40 minutes equally divided and controlled by the chairman and ranking minority member of the Committee on Government Reform; and 20 minutes equally divided and controlled by the chairman and ranking minority member of the Committee on Homeland Security. After general debate the Committee of the Whole shall rise without motion. No further consideration of the bill shall be in order except pursuant to a subsequent order of the House. This is essentially using the grounds of terrorism to over-ride State's rights about mandating citizen identifications alternatives, and enforce a Federal standard. The risk identified up thread is that those not in possession of a Federally compliant ID will be denied right of transport on airlines, violating their constitutional right of free assembly. A |
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10 Feb 05 - 01:33 PM (#1404815) Subject: RE: BS: Feds' National ID Steamrolling States From: Amos From a correspondent to Declan McCullagh's Politech list: James Plummer forgot one important thing about the national networked ID card the Feds are trying to create. The Federal government can't force state governments to do anything about this. It's the choice of the states whether to become more intrusive or less intrusive about their citizens' privacy. Here's the catch. If your state doesn't knuckle under to the Feds, nobody from your state will be allowed to travel after the deadline. The "intel bill" (9/11 Intelligence Reorg law) specifies that non- compliant IDs will not be accepted "for federal purposes" after two years. Getting TSA's permission to get on a plane is a "federal purpose". In a non-insane country, the Federal government would be unable to threaten to take away its citizens' right to travel inside the country. The right to travel is protected by the Constitution (you can't assemble unless you can travel) and by many Supreme Court decisions. But the courts have taken years to chew on this question, and meanwhile there are guys with guns in airports and train stations, keeping ME from traveling. Most people just don't believe their OWN travel will ever be restricted by the Federal government, therefore they don't protest. When they have living proof, it'll be too late. J... |