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14 Mar 05 - 05:14 AM (#1434191) Subject: Hey! I CAN sing! From: MBSLynne Ok..I've been singing in folk club singaround type things for about 25 years, but I've never had much confidence in my singing and considered myself a very second rate singer. I do it for my own enjoyment and am happy that people will be polite enough to let me. Having such shaky confidence, it takes very little to knock it back even further and over the years some people have done that....a 'friend' who thought he knew all about music told me I sing slightly sharp, someone else said "Well you may not be the greatest singer in the world..." which is true, but taken by me to mean I'm rubbish. I thought...well, if I practise more I could be a BIT better, cos practice does that. Then I thought...if I record myself, I can hear where I'm going wrong and perhaps put some of it right. So I did...and I was really pleased! I'm not such a bad singer after all! Ok, I couldn't be professional and I doubt if anyone would ever go anywhere just to listen to me, but I'm ok! Nothing to be shy or embarassed or diffident about when I sing. There are still an awful lot of people better than me, but there are also quite a few who sing regularly and happily, who are no better. Hooray! I feel really good! Now I shall go out and od it more often! Love Lynne |
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14 Mar 05 - 05:37 AM (#1434200) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: AllisonA(Animaterra) That's fantastic! Good for you! One of my vocations is showing women they CAN sing- by giving them the support of lots of happy voices around them in my chorus (called Animaterra) Keep singing, don't let the critics get you down, and just enjoy it! Allison |
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14 Mar 05 - 06:13 AM (#1434210) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: shepherdlass Good on you - keep at it. And remember, for every person who loves even the voices of Sinatra, Pavarotti, the Watersons, there's another who can't stand them - sometimes all you get is the critic's personal taste (with added candour when they realize you're already lacking in confidence!) |
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14 Mar 05 - 07:02 AM (#1434241) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: jacqui.c Good for you Lynne - I had the same problem, but decided "what the hell - I'm doing it because I want to". So long as people don't obviously leave the room when you start singing just keep on - I thought your voice sounded pretty good in December anyway! The ones who really criticise under the guise of 'advice' are generally those who are insecure themselves and need every one else in the vicinity to feel the same! |
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14 Mar 05 - 07:05 AM (#1434242) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: Leadfingers When we were in our teens my brother couldnt carry a tune in a bucket - Now he is a guiding Light in the church choir !! The more you practise ANY musical instrument the better it will sound - and dont forget that the voice is JUST another instrument !! |
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14 Mar 05 - 07:21 AM (#1434247) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: Sandra in Sydney the best thing I read about singing was in a review of a workshop for folks who "could not" sing. Everyone can sing, it's just that some of us sing to a different harmony. Someone must have told me years ago I could not sing, I don't remember who or when, but I knew I couldn't. Well, I mean singing along with the radio or records at home is not really singing, is it? but I couldn't do it in public, not with all the real singers around, cos I can't hold a tune on my own. Fortunately the first time I sang along with the audience at a folk club & the sopranos nearby looked down their noses at my quiet effort, I just sang a bit softer & didn't allow their sniffs to squash me. Now any chorus going includes my voice & I spend a lot of time in singing sessions & still sing along with my CDs. I still can't hold a tune on my own, but that doesn't stop me singing & no-one ever will - the people have songs. sandra ................. The People have songs - Miguel Heatwole Here voices are tuned to each other in gladness To all here in common affection belongs Hear joy and laughter meet keening and sadness Here tyranny's cursed for the people have songs CHORUS Let us set the room ringing with the sound of our singing When we come to the end let us hold the chord long Hear the harmonies rise and all close our eyes 'Til the last cadence dies the people have songs. Here is war parting sweethearts Here are strong sweating sailors And poets for beauty who ardently long Here are people at work singing loud at their labours Here are marriage & drinking for the people have songs CHORUS Respect for each other gives each one a hearing And whether the voice be uncertain or strong We listen with love if the heart is endearing Supported in harmony the people have songs CHORUS Distaining oppression like others before us Our gentleness angered by history's wrongs Our tradition endures, and our voices in chorus Are lifted in hope for the people have songs. CHORUS ............... |
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14 Mar 05 - 07:27 AM (#1434251) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: GUEST, Hamish I remember when I was little - about 5 or 6 - being singled out by the teacher because I could sing in tune. "Listen, Jim, to Hamish. Try to sing like him." Of course I was pleased, but even then I realised that she was knocking all confidence out of Jim (name changed to protect etc.). Years later, when I'd discovered guitar and folk-rock, I used to sing in the house regularly. I overheard my brother saying to my mum that it was a pity about my voice. Knocked me for six. Took decades to recover. By which time my boy-band good looks, etc... Careless words, careless words. Anyway, you've banished the demon, Lynne: don't look back and enjoy! |
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14 Mar 05 - 07:32 AM (#1434254) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: SINSULL Good for you! Isn't wonderful to sing because you enjoy it? Now remember the experience and gently encourage others to join in. SINS |
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14 Mar 05 - 07:38 AM (#1434257) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: MBSLynne Thanks guys! Sandra..that's a wonderful song...what is the tune? |
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14 Mar 05 - 08:26 AM (#1434296) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: Sandra in Sydney Lynne - I don't know whether Mig wrote the tune or not. I've asked JennyO if she has any more info. sandra here's his website with info about the song & the double album of Sydney session singers 'The people have songs' http://www.users.bigpond.com/mheatwole/Miguel's website |
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14 Mar 05 - 08:52 AM (#1434316) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: JennyO Hi Lynne. It's an original tune, I'm pretty sure. Miguel wrote it as well as the words. It's really something to hear a room full of singers raising the roof and holding the chord looooooooooooooooooooong. Now I'm wondering if he might have sung it in the Middle Bar when we (The Solidarity Choir) were at Sidmouth in 2001. Were you at Sidmouth that year, Lynne? Jenny |
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14 Mar 05 - 09:22 AM (#1434352) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: Morticia I have a recording of that song Lynne, thanks to the wonderful Freda.....I can do you a copy once I am moved and sorted, if you like? |
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14 Mar 05 - 09:23 AM (#1434353) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: Morticia Oh and by the way, of course you can sing.......heard you lots of times! |
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14 Mar 05 - 10:34 AM (#1434391) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: GUEST,JennyO Oh good. Sounds like you'll be able to hear it! I was wondering how to make that happen - I should have known freda would have spread a few around. Jenny |
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14 Mar 05 - 11:39 AM (#1434413) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: GUEST I remember Migeul singing it in the Middle Bar - it was one of those goosebump songs; the sort you hear for th first time and feel as though you'\ve known it all your life. And Lynne, of course you can sing. I've heard you, and you're a darned sight better than a fair few I've heard in the Middle Bar. As for being 'slightly sharp'; horsefeathers! Compared to what, for heaven's sake? A pub full of noisy b*ggers. Confidence, lass, that's all you need - and keep singing. I'd like to hear you sing more - though a black polythene mute may not be a good idea ;-) |
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14 Mar 05 - 11:55 AM (#1434420) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: GUEST,Gervase Sorry, that last one was me with a dropped biscuit! |
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14 Mar 05 - 11:58 AM (#1434423) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: Wilfried Schaum Lynne - lucky you! |
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14 Mar 05 - 12:11 PM (#1434435) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: GUEST,Jim Believe in yourself Lynne - look what it did for Robbie Williams!! Now he's a nose & throat specialist without the ear, but it's not stopped him! |
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14 Mar 05 - 12:13 PM (#1434437) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: Clinton Hammond "Now I shall go out and od it more often!" I have yet to find a good excuse for NOT singing! Get 'em Lynne! |
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14 Mar 05 - 12:29 PM (#1434448) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: Malc R "I have yet to find a good excuse for NOT singing" - You haven't heard me then >:o( I 'sing'(if that is what passes for the sound that comes from my lips), in the key of Chubb, and I can't hold a note or carry a tune. You know some singers put a finger in their ear when singing, well when I sing they put fingers in both ears. I have sung on karaoke, but only when they wanted to clear the room at the end of the night. It's not an excuse, I know, it's a fact all the same. Lynne - Good for you, keep going and prove the critics wrong :o) |
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14 Mar 05 - 12:50 PM (#1434471) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: Moonunit Of course you can sing, and what's more, you can hold a key whilst squiffy (a valuable skill). Keep eating those vodka soaked, chocolate covered strawberries - it did wonders for my voice! MU x |
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14 Mar 05 - 01:32 PM (#1434491) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: GUEST,leeneia Congratulations. I had the same experience with my recorder playing. Made a tape and discovered that little clicks and gulps that were bothering me couldn't be heard from a small distance. Encouraging news for all of us, I think. |
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14 Mar 05 - 01:38 PM (#1434497) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Way to go Lynne, I've never heard a criticism of that sort that I agreed with. Don T. |
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14 Mar 05 - 01:44 PM (#1434504) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: frogprince Someone make a clicky out of this for me, please wouldja? www.geocities.com/jadelapeer/thisonepage |
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14 Mar 05 - 01:50 PM (#1434508) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: Micca here you are Fp, but it dont seem to work Blue click here |
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14 Mar 05 - 02:06 PM (#1434526) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: frogprince Thanks for tryin', Micca; I just typed it in my regular search line at the top of the page (Juno) and it worked from there. |
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14 Mar 05 - 03:32 PM (#1434628) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: MBSLynne Aw..thanks guys..... Yes Morti, I'd love a copy please. Yes I was in Sidmouth in 2001 but may have missed that....I was spending less time in the Middle Bar at that stage due to young children. Moonunit....hopefully vodka strawberry chocolates coming to Miskin! And chocolate covered celery too! Well on the strength of my boosted confidence, I've already learnt THREE new songs! You guys may live to regret being so encouraging! Love Lynne |
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14 Mar 05 - 04:37 PM (#1434692) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Almost forgot.... Make sure you have a good time while singing. It should always be a fun thing. |
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14 Mar 05 - 05:04 PM (#1434698) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: MBSLynne That's the only reason I do it! In fact..that should be the same for everything you do! Love Lynne |
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14 Mar 05 - 05:29 PM (#1434713) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: Richard Bridge My wholly admirable daughter, when she was about 5, was told by a girl friend with one of those squeaky voices "Rachel, your voice is awful". Rachel is now 23, can knock down the walls of Jericho over 3 octaves, and has led two bands. Her first, called "Torniquet" (not the Spanish god-rock band) was voted "best band ever to play here" in a pub that has had Deep Purple, Whitesnake, and Madness, amongst others. Her friend is married to a man who left her for 6 months, pregnant, and waiting for a council flat. Keep singing. I hate my voice, but a professional said to me in a pub the other night "Well sung" - and it was an unaccompanied song too. |
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14 Mar 05 - 06:01 PM (#1434748) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: PoppaGator Good attitude. Anyone who loves to sing can make that love be heard in their singing, and should NOT hold anything back. |
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14 Mar 05 - 10:01 PM (#1434947) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: goodbar my singing style is more like talking with rythm and a little melody. i'd be a shitty singer for a punk band. but when me and my buddy jam i always sing and we have a good time. whateva. |
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14 Mar 05 - 10:15 PM (#1434956) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: GUEST,MurkeyChris I have a very limited voice and a friend recently pointed out I sing nearly every song in A! But it's better than not singing at all! Chris |
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15 Mar 05 - 01:04 AM (#1435032) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: JennieG I have been the victim of "constructive criticism" of my singing which in the circumstances was just another term for "put-down". Took me years to recover. I know I don't have a wonderful voice but it doesn't stop me singing. "How can I keep from singing......" Cheers JennieG |
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15 Mar 05 - 06:53 AM (#1435133) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: GUEST,James H just been reading all this (well done btw Lynne, must confess the first time I heard my own voice recorded it had the opposite effect on me and I didn't sing again for ages, glad its been a good experience for you) and its been making me wonder if people think there is ever a place for genuinely constructive criticism? I am not talking about people making intential snipes under the guise of being 'helpful'. Just that, if you are a more confident/experienced singer than someone else and you've got an observation of their technique that you think would help them, is it best to keep quiet in case you knock their confidence with an implied criticism? Maybe it depends how well you know the person I guess... Other side of the coin - if somebody at a singaround or club has a truly painful vocal delivery is it fair if everybody claps enthusiastically and lets them think it was great? I've seen it happen. Always seems to happen to the people who for whatever reason are not progressing very quickly or indeed at all, and there's always a bit of me meanly wondering whether they just don't realise how bad they are and whether a very tactfully worded hint or two might encourage them to work on it a bit more before inflicting it on other people. Or is that just me being heartless? (I never do say anything btw, I'm not THAT mean). the thing I'm wondering - I truly believe that everybody can sing and should be encouraged to sing and that treating people's confidence with respect is very important, BUT that the voice is an instrument like anything else and to make a pleaseing sound with it you have to work and practice. why therefore do some singers never progress, never learn words, never learn to sing in tune or project their voices succesfully? Is it partly because they do not receive any properly constructive criticism because their nearest and dearest are too afraid to knock their confidence by saying anything? James |
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15 Mar 05 - 07:34 AM (#1435160) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: MBSLynne James, I do think that constructive criticism can be very helpful..I've been grateful for some I've had over the years from better singers than me, but I think you have to put it VERY tactfully if you are not to knock people's confidence. I do also think that it is right to applaud enthusiastically, anyone who is brave enough to get up and sing in front of an audience,,,just for doing it. While, perhaps, everybody can sing to some extent, there is a point past which any individual can't progress...their own personal limit. yes, practice will improve anyone's playing or singing up to that limit. Consequently, some people will never get past 'painful'. It would be unkind and pointless to tell them they're painful (even if you don't put it that way). Constructive criticism yes, but that's only going to help up to a certain point. Love Lynne |
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15 Mar 05 - 11:20 AM (#1435315) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: GUEST "I have a very limited voice and a friend recently pointed out I sing nearly every song in A! But it's better than not singing at all!" You can always put a capo on (tight) and sing instantly in a higher register! |
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15 Mar 05 - 11:34 AM (#1435322) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: GUEST, Hamish Allied to your point on applause, James, I've noticed that the level of joining in on choruses is often inversely proportional to how well the leader sings. It's as if the "audience" are over compensating for the singer's inadequacies and are trying to help them keep in tune/keep in time/go faster/go slower. Or just drown them out. Whereas a really magical singer will be more likely to be listened to: even if there's a chorus which you'd expect to be joined in on. |
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15 Mar 05 - 12:24 PM (#1435371) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: Justa Picker Why don't we see what Simon Cowell says? :-) |
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15 Mar 05 - 01:34 PM (#1435411) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: GUEST,Trio Da Da Da Da! I guess that makes a quartet really doesn't it? |
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15 Mar 05 - 01:39 PM (#1435417) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: Peter T. Find a singing teacher as your next step!!! The one I go to has many students who are of different ages, most of whom were discouraged. They have all improved dramatically over the two years I have been watching master classes, etc. A good teacher can work out with you how to improve your ear, find out your real range (you may be surprised how many more notes are actually in there!), teach you how to focus, and how to sell a song. yours, Peter T. |
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15 Mar 05 - 11:16 PM (#1435773) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: GUEST,Gerry I liked Miguel's song so much, I wrote a parody of it. Unfortunately there's not much of an audience for it, won't be until the day they start holding math conferences at folk festivals, but here it is: Here are squares and triangles, here are cubes and quadrangles Here are measures of volume, of surface, and path Here are bold exponentials, and smooth differentials And circumferentials - the people have Math! Chorus: Let us spring into action at the sight of subtraction Let us cry, "Archimedes!" as we bolt from the bath See the exponents rise, computing their size With our thetas and pis - the people have Math! There's a second stanza, but I think I'll quit while I'm behind. |
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16 Mar 05 - 06:33 AM (#1435923) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: Sandra in Sydney As Miguel says in the intro to this song 'My friends have flattered me with 2 fine parodies' Gerry, is yours one of these 2, or do we have 3 now? freda, author of "The Peope have Thongs' - where are you? (by the way, those thongs are footwear - not what some might be thinking) |
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16 Mar 05 - 06:40 AM (#1435924) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: RobbieWilson Tell you what, Lynne. I shall go to Miskin just to hear you sing. |
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16 Mar 05 - 07:09 AM (#1435938) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: GUEST,MBSLynne Thank you Robbie...I hope I don't disappoint you! I now have four new songs ready! Love Lynne |
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16 Mar 05 - 12:04 PM (#1436150) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: GUEST,Jim "While, perhaps, everybody can sing to some extent, there is a point past which any individual can't progress" Fair comment - but the problem is in knowing where that point is |
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16 Mar 05 - 02:40 PM (#1436257) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: My guru always said Hey Lynne, you could have fooled me... No, I mean about your concern about your singing. I've never heard you sing sharp or anything like that & have wondered why you don't sing more. Glad you've dispelled those ghosts, we all have them. Hear you at Miskin then *grin* |
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16 Mar 05 - 06:23 PM (#1436419) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: GUEST,Gerry Yes, Sandra, mine is one of the two. |
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30 Mar 05 - 05:43 AM (#1446708) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: GUEST,MBSLynne Just got back from Miskin where I have had the wonderful experience of singing in a group of others with harmonies etc...I soooo enjoyed it. Ok Hils...p'rpas I can sing a bit! I certainly enjoyed the singing with you...our voices seem to go together rather well. Look forward to doing more with the Middle Bar Babes at Sidmouth!! Love Lynne |
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30 Mar 05 - 08:31 AM (#1446804) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: Snuffy You (and the other "Lynnettes") were absolutely brilliant at Miskin. Don't stop now - onwards and upwards, at least until you bang your head on the ceiling! :>) |
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30 Mar 05 - 08:59 AM (#1446839) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: MBSLynne Well I did THAT on the Sunday night! Thanks Snuffy! Love Lynne |
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30 Mar 05 - 11:40 AM (#1446939) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: GUEST,Selchie - (RS) Lynne, Glad you started this thread. I'm very, very new to singing, after being told many, many number of years ago as a child, that I couldn't sing! I never did until encouraged by a 'friend' to try, & now I'm so glad he persuaded me I could do it. I now sing occasionally, am slowly learning & daring to do it, but with all the lovely people around especially as at Miskin, now feel confident that I'll get there eventually. So after only four months singing I've got a long way to go to catch up with you others but thanks to all who have offered encouragement, that's what counts. And I've got a lot of lost time to make up. Love to all Rosie x |
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30 Mar 05 - 12:02 PM (#1446946) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: GUEST,MBSLynne Well, good on you for starting in the first place Rosie...it takes a lot of courage to make the first step. I don't remember that I've actually heard you sing yet...I'll look forward to it! Love Lynne |
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30 Mar 05 - 02:08 PM (#1446997) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: GUEST,Selchie - (RS) Maybe not Lynne, only twice at Miskin, maybe a few more than a dozen times in all so far. I promise to sing when we're next together somewhere. (If you promise to dance with us again too?) Love Rosie |
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30 Mar 05 - 02:57 PM (#1447023) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: GUEST,MBSLynne No probs promising that! Try and stop me!! Love Lynne |
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30 Mar 05 - 05:38 PM (#1447222) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: Tannywheeler Been gone a few days; just saw this thread. MB, tell all your critics "where to go". Does it feel good when you open your mouth and let the sound issue forth? Do you get goosebumps (at least sometimes) when making music from your throat? If there are ever yes answers to those questions you can sing. Do it and be glad. Sandra in Sydney: WOW -- and thanks for that song and connection to Mr. Heatwole. What a privilege. Tw |
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31 Mar 05 - 08:15 AM (#1447785) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: Sandra in Sydney Naturally we sang "The People Have Songs" at the National, tho I didn't see Miguel at the late night sessions. We had a white-haired bloke there one night who said he couldn't sing, tho I saw his lips moving in the song he requested (three score & ten, title??). I wonder who told him he couldn't sing & how many decades he listened without joining in. We directed him to his state Folk Federation & maybe we might see him again next year. Somebody's grave needs kicking for careless/hasty remarks. sandra |
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31 Mar 05 - 08:52 AM (#1447826) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: JennyO Miguel was at one of the stairwell sessions, but I don't think he came up to the singing room at all. I don't remember seeing him there anyway. Yes, the song is called "Three Score and Ten". It's in the DT. THREE SCORE AND TEN Methinks I see a host of craft Spreading their sails alee Down the Humber they do glide All bound for the Northern Sea Me thinks I see on each small craft A crew with hearts so brave Going out to earn their daily bread Upon the restless wave And it's three score and ten Boys and men were lost from Grimsby town From Yarmouth down to Scarboro Many hundreds more were drowned Our herring craft, our trawlers Our fishing smacks, as well They long defied that bitter night And battled with the swell Methinks I see them yet again As they leave this land behind Casting their nets into the sea The herring shoals to find Me thinks I see them yet again They're all on board all right With their nets rolled up and their decks cleaned off And the side lights burning bright Me thinks I've heard the captain say "Me lads we'll shorten sail" With the sky to all appearances Looks like an approaching gale Me thinks I see them yet again Midnight hour is past The little craft abattling there Against the icy blast October's night brought such a sight Twas never seen before There were mast and yards and broken spars A washing on the shore There were many a heart in sorrow Many a heart so brave There were many a fine and hearty lad That met a watery grave recorded on Clancy Bros Songs of the Sea and Bok et al on Turning toward the Morning It's a great song - I heard it sung (and joined in) a number of times through the festival, and didn't mind at all that we sang it twice that night. It was very rewarding to see that man's pleasure when we sang it. Mind you, by that time, some of us had got a bit silly and had developed the bad habit of slapping our hands on our knees every time the words "fishing smacks as well" came round :-) Jenny |
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31 Mar 05 - 09:46 AM (#1447865) Subject: RE: Hey! I CAN sing! From: mandoleer Nice to know I'm not the only one that's been used to clear the pub at closing time. I confine my solo singing to comic numbers where the humour on the words can take away the pain caused by the singing.... |