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15 Mar 05 - 10:18 AM (#1435265) Subject: Festival organiser's replies? From: rhyzla Have any of you performers out there found it difficult to get a reply from festival organisers? The band I play with has send out dozens of CDs and letters and emails, and made endless phonecalls. I CAN accept rejection for whatever reason - i.e. too late, wrong sort of music, face doesn't fit, too expensive, too cheap(!), but I find it hard to understand when organisers cannot be bothered to reply. And before you tell me how many requests they are innundated with, it takes only a few seconds to send an email, and frankly if a festival can organise a website, surely it can elect a preson to deal with enquiries in a professional manner. RANT OVER!! Anybody else had similar experiences!! Barry |
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15 Mar 05 - 10:36 AM (#1435289) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: GUEST,smiler |
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15 Mar 05 - 10:43 AM (#1435296) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: GUEST,smiler Sorry I was too quick I also notice not many festivals reply. Its politeness for them to do so, but they're not obliged to. However if I'm going to a festival, other than as a performer, I'll go to one which replied to me, which is my choice. At least one festival in the north of England had my company last year because of this |
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15 Mar 05 - 10:50 AM (#1435299) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: GUEST Agree, it takes seconds to reply by email and 99% of people have emails now, they prefer the rude option and dont bother. Yes they dont have to but it's plain good manners. We like rhyzla can take rejection for what ever reason....but you don't even get that sometimes. |
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15 Mar 05 - 10:51 AM (#1435300) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: treewind It may take a few seconds to send an email, but first the organiser has to think "who the hell is this anyway?" and remember which CD was yours, and they probably haven't listened to it anyway because they've already got a list and a reserve list, and they don't like saying no - so it all takes longer than you think, all to no benefit for them and mutiply that by however many enquiries and demos they get. Of course they put time into websites - that's what brings the punters and the money in! Yes, I've had similar experiences. It sucks but that's how it is. How much junk mail do *you* reply to anyway? It doesn't help if your promo email looks like it's been sent impersonally to a big list of addresses - so personalising it might help but doesn't guarantee anything. I mention that because I get some as webmaster for a folk club (even though it's quite clear that promo material should go to someone else) Anahata |
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15 Mar 05 - 11:07 AM (#1435308) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: rhyzla Anahata, I, like you, don't reply to junk mail. But when someone emails me about my business, hobby, interest, I make sure that I reply out of courtesy, even if the answer is no. Once a festival is up to numbers, why not advertise it on the website, and keep the website up to date - that way deflecting most of the artists who have left it too late! Out of interest, I have also run a folk club and been on a festival committee, and always answered queries as a matter of importance. With regard to listening to CDs, I sympathise there, but it seems to me that unless a festival has already heard of an artist, the CD wont even be considered, and probably at some point end up on ebay or in someone's private collection (god .. what a cynic!) |
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15 Mar 05 - 11:21 AM (#1435316) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: Dave the Gnome I help run a club and festival. Sorry if it seems rude but I never reply to mailers. From anyone. Nothing to do with how much time it takes. Quite simply, if I want to book an artist I will approach them. Same as 'buying' anything. I have never bought anything from a door to door salesman, a junk email or a cold call on the phone. Why should I treat cold calling artists any different? As Anahata says - how much junk mail do you reply to? Now then, onto some more possitive stuff (I hope!). I have said I never bought or booked anything from a cold call. That does not however mean that the mail or call has not influenced me. Perhaps the mail has sown a seed in my mind and when I next think of who I can book I may recall the name of that band that sent me something months ago. Who knows... :-) The other thing is if you can indeed "accept rejection for whatever reason" as you say can you not also accept rejection by any means? Surely a non-response may simply be that - A form of rejection. At least though it may not be rejecting you directly - Just your marketing tactics. Good luck with finding bookings Cheers Dave the Gnome |
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15 Mar 05 - 11:33 AM (#1435319) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: John MacKenzie Well I didn't contact a certain Scottish Festival looking for a booking, I asked what the camping facilities were, as their website was a bit vague. Did I get a reply?----did I fuck Did I go to the festival?......did I fuck What can they do this year?......they can go and take a flying fuck to themselves. Now I'm only one person and it doesn't cost the festival a fortune when I don't go, but I would imagine that I'm not the only one! Giok |
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15 Mar 05 - 11:47 AM (#1435338) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: GUEST,Pete I echo the comments of treewind and dave the gnome. As a festival organiser I used to pride myself on listening to every cd and replying to every e-mail, letter and phone call... but now I get between 20 and 50 unsolicited e-mails, letters, phone calls, tapes and cds each and every day and I simply do not have time to listen and reply to them all. I appreciate it must be disheartening to artists who send out loads of stuff yet never get any replies but there are only so many hours in the day. Sorry, but that's the way it is. |
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15 Mar 05 - 11:55 AM (#1435348) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: Leadfingers Another problem , from the artists point of view , is how up to date is the information ? I was trying to tie in some dates to fill gaps 'Ooop North' a little while ago , and found that rather more than half the contact phone numbers listed in Tykes were totally out of date . Obviously this does not apply to a Festival Website ,Does it ? |
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15 Mar 05 - 12:00 PM (#1435353) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: John MacKenzie Only the ones that are still up and running months after the festival has been and gone Terry! Giok |
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15 Mar 05 - 12:08 PM (#1435362) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: GUEST,Artist and booker I always, when time allows, to listen to and reply to anyone who takes the time to contact me with regards to the music business that pays for my life style - Not Spam though, as said above a personal letter/email gets more attention. Re. preset artist list, of course they exist, and have to, when I do my weekly shop I buy the produce I and my family like, but I'm happy to try something new, and what could be better than being the first club/festival on the block and be copied by the rest? I've had a couple of Artists who have sent recordings/booking details by post and emailed me that they were on the way, I can quickly reply to the email if there's no vacancies or wait till I've heard the details/recording and then email back with the relevant reply or booking offer. Websites are often run by someone other than the festival/club organiser/Bookings officer - so try and contact the right person in the first instance. Good luck and I hope the bookings "Roll In" |
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15 Mar 05 - 02:48 PM (#1435457) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: BB Many of us do try to contact the relevant person on the organising body of a festival or club, but unless website/magazine adverts are up-to-date and, more importantly, have the contact for the person doing the actual bookings, that can be a very frustrating business. I do not send out CDs unless I've spoken to someone or had e-mail contact with someone first - otherwise it seems to be a waste of time and money as they disappear into a seemingly bottomless pit... Barbara |
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15 Mar 05 - 03:07 PM (#1435467) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: Sooz I'm a club and festival organiser. I listen to all promo CDs and pass them on to the rest of the committee. Very occasionally they lead to a booking. This is because, like Dave, we know who we want and approach those artists direct. This may seem unfair to the unknown, but we are a very small festival and cannot afford to take risks. I try to answer emails which are sent to me personally, but avoid those which are sent out in bulk to a huge list. It took them seconds to email a hundred people and I get hundreds of these messages! |
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15 Mar 05 - 04:39 PM (#1435525) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: GUEST,guest So how would a newcomer go about getting gigs and becoming known, if so many festival organizers won't take a chance on someone new? Sometimes it seems like its always the same old same old on the festival circuit, I guess that's because organizers already know who they want to book and won't consider anybody else? I agree that it's very frustrating to get no reply whatsoever - especially in the case of an e-mail where it's so easy to just type "sorry we already have our lineup" and hit reply. |
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15 Mar 05 - 04:40 PM (#1435528) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: open mike one festival i attend has a questionaire that all attendees are welcome to submit at the end of each fest. with suggestions for the booking manager to invite to future fests. Perhaps the best way is to present your material thru someone personally recognized by the management so as to be in the radar. there unfortunatley are a plethora of perfomers out there and competetion is stiff at times... i thouight this might be a follow up message to the earlier one about a certain florida festival whose new organizer had changed the focus of the event...i was wondering what were the Festival organiser's replies? to any comments submitted to them about THAT. |
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15 Mar 05 - 04:43 PM (#1435529) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: Blowzabella I try to reply to most people but can't guarantee it - for all the reasons above - no matter how short a time it takes to send an email, there are only so many hours in a day. On the run-up to an event, when you have a list as long as your arm of things that need doing by the end of said day (and there is always a carry over), and you find yourself panicking to get the marketing out and the tickets up for sale etc, and keep the sponsors happy, , booking accommodation, responding to enquiries from members of the public, getting licenses sorted, etc etc - responding to unsolicited post has to go to the end of the list. I have three wallets of work in front of me on my desk at work - items with lots of ****, items with three ***, two **, one* etc, in order of urgency. I have to hope that, by the day of the event, most, if not all, have been done, but there is usually something left over... After the Festival, when there is more time available, it seems rude to say - by now, you'll have realised...etc etc The exception to this are emails or demos from artists / agents whose work clearly does not fit into the type of music we book for the Festival (which is quite obvious from the name of the Festival), or who seem to suggest that it will be our loss if we don't book them - we don't even try to reply to these, generally. |
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15 Mar 05 - 05:11 PM (#1435556) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: treewind So how would a newcomer go about getting gigs? A big question. There is no simple formula - luck, time, hard work and patience, knowing the right people, talking to people and finding out who's who and being prepared to travel and do stuff for free. If you do folk clubs, go and do floor spots where they are in reach. That can lead to all sorts of things, eventually. For both festivals and clubs, the traditional approach (phone or email, sending demo, follow-up phone call) does work sometimes. Festivals often like performers to come on a "try-out" basis - maybe a complimentary ticket and a couple of spots to see how you get on - before taking you on for a full booking. So a good plan to start with is not to ask for too much. Once you get started, the snowball gradually picks up. We were in a Sidmouth concert where the MC was Alan Bell who runs Fylde festival - months later we approached him about spending a day at Fylde festival because we were in the area - there we met someone who's involved in a club where we're after a gig... the chain reaction continues... Anahata |
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15 Mar 05 - 05:12 PM (#1435559) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: GUEST,Skipy We are a very small festival with a TINY budget & a TINY stage in our miniscule concert venue. We do try to reply, quite often it is "We cannot afford that many people & you won't fit on the stage". We get so much stuff from singer song writers it's untrue! Some of it has potential but not for us, some of it make us cringe! Sometimes replying can be dangerous, it leads to long diatribes between us & would be performers, that lead to nothing. Once, but only once I gave my advice (for what it is worth)to a band about what we needed & lo & behold they sent me another CD of what they would perform if booked, we booked & they where great (no I will not say who!). I will also admit to all you hopefuls out there that sometimes we just simply do not have the time to listen. Strangely a tape will probably get listened to rather than a cd as this can be done in the car on the way to / from work, which is time already allocated & lost. But be honest, it is a mail shot, we send out leaflets for our festival & our concerts, just how many get read? People do not get one & then call us & say "Sorry we have a darts match that night, or we are having the cats boil lanced" So we just plug way & so must you! If you are any good you will be passed by word of mouth from club organiser to organiser & them to festivals, you will get name dropped at AFO meetings then you really are on your way. So keep sending, keep playing, keep networking & STOP bleeting because that will get you a bad name. Rant over. Skipy. |
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15 Mar 05 - 05:32 PM (#1435571) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: GUEST,Mikeof Northumbria (cookieless) Hi there Guest. You wrote earlier: "So how would a newcomer go about getting gigs and becoming known, if so many festival organizers won't take a chance on someone new?" Here are three possible options. One. Keep hustling for gigs, and take whatever comes in. However small the audience, and however low-status the venue, give them 100% every time. If you are good, you will eventually acquire a reputation. People with influence will hear you, or hear about you. Two: Get on the books of a profesional agency, who will do the hustling for you - and for their 10%. But expect to work at option one for some time before a good agency will be prepared to sign you. Three. Get together with a few friends who have similar aspirations, and start your own festival. Wassail! |
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15 Mar 05 - 05:42 PM (#1435585) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: Dave the Gnome So how would a newcomer go about getting gigs and becoming known Echoing the earlier posters. Do the rounds. Attend the singarounds and music sessions. Put effort into getting organisers to know you personaly rather than only by mail! Good luck and see you at Swinton folk club one singers night?;-) Cheers DtG |
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15 Mar 05 - 05:45 PM (#1435592) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: Marion Hi Guest. You might find some helpful ideas in this old thread: Good luck, Marion |
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15 Mar 05 - 05:47 PM (#1435595) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: Marion Use the preview every time, Marion! That should be: Booking folk gigs: some suggestions |
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15 Mar 05 - 06:03 PM (#1435607) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: Alaska Mike I am fairly well known in Alaska now, and many of the festival organizers call me to ask if I would perform. This is an enviable position to be in, but it only comes after many years of plugging away and putting on entertaining performances. When I was just starting out, I remember getting more "no response" answers than anything else. This past fall I applied to over a dozen festivals that will be going on during my visit to England in August 2005. Being almost totally unknown in the UK, I did not get very much response. Of the 12 festivals I applied to, I received a definite "NO" from Whitby, a definite "YES" from Broadstairs and no answer or reply at all from the rest. I plan to put on a great show wherever I perform because that is the best way to insure a better response when I return. Best wishes, Mike |
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15 Mar 05 - 06:13 PM (#1435614) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: GUEST,Pete ... and just to show festival organisers sometimes have the same problem in getting answers... I've been chasing three different agents for answers on three different acts over the past month and still haven't had a reply from any of them. I've also been quoted ridiculous sums (well over £10,000) by another agent for acts who won't sell more than 500 tickets... and was today quoted £15,000 - £20,000 by a well-known agent for a less well-known band who've yet to have a hit record! The major rock agents are notorious for not replying to festival organisers and promoters but one of the agents referred to above represents many traditional folk and celtic artists, one of whom often bemoans the fact that he doesn't play enough festivals these days (small wonder when his agent won't even consider less than fifteen grand). |
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15 Mar 05 - 06:55 PM (#1435627) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: GUEST,Skipy £15,000 - £20,00 grand, someone is taking the piss! Skipy |
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16 Mar 05 - 04:30 AM (#1435869) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: GUEST, Hamish To Dave the Gnome: Can I have a gig, please? Not expecting a reply, but sometime in the future when you're thinking to yourself "who should I go out and ask to appear?" you'll remember "oh, yes, there's that Mudcatter Hamish who's allegedly very good (and cheap, er, good value!)" and think "I hope he's available. How do I contact him..." To the rest of the thread: don't be afraid to take a "no" for an answer, and expect to be ignored. Always ask, and keep persisting. Let them know you'd prefer a "no" to a "maybe" which means "no". Hamish Oh, and Dave, for future reference, you can PM me here, or e-mail via this link ;-) |
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16 Mar 05 - 05:38 AM (#1435902) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: Dave the Gnome Mail sent Hamish. Isn't it about time you DID buy a moped if you have to keep delivering all them pizzaz? :D |
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16 Mar 05 - 08:03 AM (#1435973) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: GUEST, Hamish And that points up another rule: Always be serious. Even when you're joking.* *With acknowledgements to the original: "Always be sincere. Even if you don't mean it" |
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16 Mar 05 - 08:51 AM (#1435997) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: John MacKenzie The inflated prices being asked for artistes is a direct result of the increase of the Festival Circuit, and has caused the decrease of the Folk Club circuit. Festivals pay too much for some acts, this raises artistes expectations [in some cases] well beyond what they're worth, along comes the club organiser, and finds he's being asked 6 months door money for one act. I know of one excellent artiste who will still work for £150 a night in a small club, the same artist said to me one night when we had a poor turnout that he'd be happy with less money as he could see we were not covering his fee. I of course refused as I believe in paying what I promised to, but it's the only time anybody's ever said that to me, and I'll always respect him for it. BTW it is not uncommon for the organiser of a club to subsidise it out of his own pocket!! Giok |
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16 Mar 05 - 08:55 AM (#1435998) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: GUEST I'm involved at a festival on the East coast of the states. I started about 20 years ago, Volunteering at the festival. After about 6 years volunteering, I was invited to be on staff for the festival and got some peforming time. I am no longer a festival staff member,I do prform semi annually, but am perfectly familiar with how many requests they recieve. It is my experience that it's tough to hire someone from a recording, although it's done from time to time, (rarely). Most organisers hire people they've seen perform. They might go see you perform somewhere, based on you recording, but it's hard to get their money with it. Make a long story short. The way to get gigs is working from the ground up. There's no quick easy way to high profile gigs. |
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16 Mar 05 - 04:07 PM (#1436330) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: Jack The Lad I run a folk festival in Israel, and also produce and present a radio programme of World and folk music. I get lots of enquiries and CDs sent- I do respond to all of them and air any suitable CDs on my radio show. The show goes out to Northern Israel and to Southern Lebanon- my message( as well as pure entertainment) is that music crosses borders and helps bring peace. Our festival brings Jewish and Arab musicians together, among the dozens of local acts-and foreign guests. See www.jlfestival.com If any of you care to send Cds , you will be considered for our festival if you wish,( no promises made) or at least get your music heard in this part of the world. If you are interested please PM me.I will send my mailing address. Cheers, Jack The Lad |
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17 Mar 05 - 11:48 AM (#1436935) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: Beer Been watching this thread for a few days but was to busy to write and wanted to get some thoughts together. I'm also a Festival orgnizer and responsible for booking. This will be our third year and like most festivals were not rich, so we have to be careful where we spend the bucks we do have. If you wish to visit our site we are at www.ormstownfair.com You will then see an entrance to our site. Most of our entertainers come for the love of music and not the money. We are still in the learning stages and continue to correct mistakes. This probably will never end. This year I have noticed an increase in e-mails,demo tapes and bioes arriving at my door. I reply to each and every one of them. I have accepted one so far. Not because the others weren't good or great but because of distance for musicians to travel. We cannot afford to pay for air fair accross the Atlantic and manny requests are comming from Europe. When I reply I don't just say no thank you but give an explaination. I also receive (but not always) very positive responses. Being a musician I can appreciate the frustration that a lot of musicians have in trying to get booked. Remember the song "Nashville Cats"? Well that is basically it. There are just so manny musicians out there that we can take the time to pick what we feel is best for the public's money. Remaining positive is always best as difficult as it may seem. Last month I received a package from a young female singer who really impressed me but I felt that she would not be what our festival would want to book. I passed it to the Organizing Committee for their thoughts. The same response. I then called a production company explaining what I received and they are going to give her a look. So as you can see things can still happen even though we didn't book her. This thread has also given me a few ideas which I plan to have implemented. Such as "Rhyzla's" comment about announcing on the web page when we are not accepting any further submissions. A great idea. I like what you do "Jack The Lad". What a great thing to do. John Giok MacKenzie touched on inflated prices. I also find this to be true but it can also work well for the lesser know artists. True they may not help matters at the gate but a mix of new artists and a mix of local talent with maybe one head liner can also work. Anyway, enough said. Have a look at our site and I welcome any ideas you may wish to contribute. We are also booked up for this year and within the next month or so the 2005 schedual will be posted. |
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17 Mar 05 - 12:20 PM (#1436955) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: treewind I then called a production company explaining what I received and they are going to give her a look. So as you can see things can still happen even though we didn't book her Excellent - keep up the good work. When a club or festival doesn't want an act because they wouldn't really fit, one of the best things they can do is pass the enquiry (and demo CD if there was one) to someone else local who might be a better match. It's happened to me once or twice, and I know organisers who do it - I've passed on enquiries myself occasionally where appropriate. This (the folk world) is a community, not a cut-throat competition. Anahata |
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17 Mar 05 - 03:39 PM (#1437102) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: mg What Michael said...start your own festival starring yourself and a fewfriends. Keeptit simple..within three years it will be a community tradition...in the meantime, carry on. mg |
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18 Mar 05 - 05:09 AM (#1437512) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: rhyzla Thank you everyone for your answers on this thread. I know my original thread was a rant as the result of a certain amount of frustration. I am probably being impatient as well, as our band 'Rhyzome' only formed last June, tho' I've been playing clubs and festivals since 1974!! I particularly appreciated 'Beer's' contribution (3 above) as his ocnsiderate approach is one that should (and could) be repeated throughout the festival scene - well done you!! |
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18 Mar 05 - 03:19 PM (#1437860) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: GUEST,Done and Gone I haven't done this in years, but, for what it's worth, things haven't changed much--the biggest problem is that there is always more work organizing a festival than there are people who can do it--and the best of intentions are dashed by the crises of the moment(always more than one)-- The place that you would contact from the outside --phone number, mail box, and nowdays, website, is often far from the center of activity, and the "contact" names are seldom the real decision makers--that's the way it is, and always has been--things are very fluid-- Just try to remember that most all of us got involved for love of the music, and not from any desire for personal gain(fat chance of that, anyway!) and hang in there, sooner or later someone will hear you and love you, and will be going crazy trying to get in touch with you! |
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18 Mar 05 - 04:09 PM (#1437904) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: rhyzla Nice thoughts, done and gone! |
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18 Mar 05 - 04:40 PM (#1437924) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: GUEST,Skipy I'm sitting here with your cd! I'm going to play it again & then I'm going to PM you with my thoughts. Regards Skipy. |
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18 Mar 05 - 04:42 PM (#1437927) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: GUEST,smiler Getting back to Dave the Knome's earlier post, I would consider sending out your details as marketing. If you run a club or festival this is what happens. Our folk club gets lots of leaflets. We don't consider them junk mail. We leave them on the table. It works both ways. If DtK let's me know of his festival, I will make a point not to send him my performer details, nor to go there as a punter. |
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19 Mar 05 - 01:20 PM (#1438359) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: Beer Something else that may help you get booked. Festival orgnizers are quite often looking for workshop presenters. If you have something to offer talk about it in your bio. |
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19 Mar 05 - 01:55 PM (#1438388) Subject: RE: Festival organiser's replies? From: Blowzabella Good point, Beer - also, themed presentations that either tie in with the Festival, an anniversary or similar - for instance, 2005 is the 400th anniversary of the Gunpowder Plot - now, if there was a Festival in November, and there were a range of songs which related to that, it might be really apt - it is also the bicentenary of the Battle of Trafalgar Organisers get inundated with people who present good quality material, so (speaking personally) something a bit different catches the eye - personally, I like something which includes some context to the material and a bit of research. Items that spring to mind are Danny & Joyce McLeod's presentations on Cicely Fox Smith, Liverpool Forebitter's similar work with the poems of John Masefield, Roaring Forties 'Icebound', which tells of the whaling fleet, when it got trapped in the ice of Baffin Bay and Barrie & Ingrid Temple's presentation on the Keel Men of the Tyne. Something relating to where you come from or where you are aiming to play, or the time of year, rather than just a general repertoire, are the sort of things I like to hear about, and make you stand out from all the other submissions. |