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17 Mar 05 - 05:37 AM (#1436740) Subject: Loyalist songs From: GUEST,Willy McBoyne It's easy to find Irish rebel songs, but where can I find Protestant Loyalist songs? |
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17 Mar 05 - 06:00 AM (#1436749) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: MartinRyan Use the "lyrics and knowledge" search box at the top of the page, with "loyalist songs" or "orange songs" as the search term. That will bring you to some threads with both discussion and links to other resources. Regards |
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17 Mar 05 - 06:02 AM (#1436750) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: Dave Earl I found The Old Orange Flute and The Sash my Father Wore in the DT. There are probably more to be found my typing in the title. But your granny may already know how to suck eggs!!:-) Dave Earl |
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17 Mar 05 - 06:26 AM (#1436763) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: Wrinkles There was a Belfast group in the 70/80s that did very obscure and quite surprisingly lovley "orange" tunes and songs called "Hol yer wish" (SP?) comprising three members who played Bodhran, guitar, fiddle, and whistle and released an LP with the same name. Tommy Sands gave it quite a few spins on his Downtown Radio show. It's well worth a listen if you can find a copy. Wrinkles |
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17 Mar 05 - 07:27 AM (#1436788) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: GUEST,Paul Burke Battle of Garvagh is in Digitrad. Also I remember bits of this one (tune Mountains of Mourne): There's a rusty old steamer on a far distant shore And we hope she'll sail into Larne harbour once more. Her name's the Clyde Valley, and a proud ship was she For she helped to keep Ulster both British and free. The Liberals in England in 1913 Said "Home Rule for Ireland, we'll wash our hands clean", But Edward Lord Carson took a far different course, And he helped to set up Ulster's volunteer force. Much more similar doggerel, you can see why Orange songs aren't as popular with outsiders as the Nationalist ones. |
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17 Mar 05 - 08:41 AM (#1436825) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: Snuffy A regular visitor here and poster of Orange songs is Conrad Bladey, who uses the handle "*#1 PEASANT*" Put that into search and you should find loads of stuff. He also has a website I believe |
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17 Mar 05 - 09:32 AM (#1436870) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: PeteBoom Protestant Boys, Lillibullero and others are in the DT. Far better than the stuff Paul Burke cited. However, for every "rebel" song that is not worth singing, there is a "loyalist" one as well. Likewise, I suspect that for everyone that has some worth, there is one balancing it. I could be wrong, but I don't think so... Pete |
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17 Mar 05 - 03:42 PM (#1437105) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: GUEST,JTT Lots of Orange songs are sung by republicans, by the way. |
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17 Mar 05 - 04:14 PM (#1437124) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: PoppaGator Are Loyalists celebrating St. Patrick's Day today? Or do they feel a need to "counter-celebrate"? Just an ignorant Irish-American, wondering how and why this came up on this particular date... |
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17 Mar 05 - 05:03 PM (#1437155) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: GUEST,eoin o'buadhaigh course, poppagator, both sides celebrate St Pat, do ya think we are all heathens over here? any excuse for a few pints, a few songs and for the ones who have too many pints, a few fights! Jazes man what better way to enjoy yersel. cheers eoin |
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17 Mar 05 - 05:17 PM (#1437170) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: Charmion This morning I did not put on the first thing my hand fell on in the shirt drawer -- the orange one. I didn't think it quite the thing to wear with blue jeans today. |
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17 Mar 05 - 05:21 PM (#1437176) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: The Curator A large stall at Nutts Corner market close to Belfast International Airport sells a large selection of discs, tapes and records of all Loyalist bands. |
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17 Mar 05 - 05:35 PM (#1437180) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: dick greenhaus If you're searching the DT try a search for @Irish @Protestant |
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17 Mar 05 - 06:01 PM (#1437198) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: PoppaGator Hey, eoin, glad to hear that all sides can agree on the great Saint himself and that you're not heathens. Thanks for the answer, enjoy yer pints, and if ye get in a fight, here's hoping that all escape unscathed! |
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17 Mar 05 - 07:25 PM (#1437257) Subject: Lyr Add: THE ORANGE AND THE GREEN From: Snuffy THE ORANGE AND THE GREEN Quite a few corrections (in bold type) Oh my father was an Orangeman, proud Protestant was he My mother was a Catholic girl, from county Cork came she They were married in two churches,lived happily enough Until the day that I was born then things got rather tough CHORUS: Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen My father he was Orange and my mother she was Green Baptized by father Reilly, and rushed away by car To become a little Orangeman, before the shining star I was christened David Anthony but still in spite of that To my father I was Billy while my mother called me Pat Now, with mother every Sunday to Mass we'd proudly stroll And later on the Orange lodge would try to save my soul Both sides they tried to claim me but I was cute because I'd play me flute or play me harp depending where I was Now, when I'd sing those rebel songs 'twould fill my mother's joy My father would jump up and say ""Now look here Bill me boy That's enough of that stuff, he'd be tossin' me a coin To sing about the Orange Flute and the heroes of the Boyne Well, one day my father's kinfolk, they came to visit me Just as my mother's relatives were sittin' down to tea I tried to calm things over but they soon began to fight And me bein' strictly neutral I punched everyone in sight Well, my parents they would not agree about my kind of school My learnin' was all done at home, no wonder I'm a fool Now they've both passed on God bless them but they left me caught between That awful colour problem of the Orange and the Green |
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18 Mar 05 - 02:06 AM (#1437441) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: alanabit That is hilarious. I will keep that one! |
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18 Mar 05 - 02:26 AM (#1437445) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: Big Tim Belfast City Council refused to support the St. Patrick's Day Concert, because, they said, it was too republican: a sea of tricolours and Celtic Football Club and Republic of Ireland football tops. This was certainly confirmed by last night's tv pictures. In Derry, the celebrations were more inclusive and more cross cultural. The Ulster Society has published two books of loyalist songs 1. The Orange Lark (40 songs). 2. Lilliburlero (41 songs). Some of these are quite sectarian, many less so. May now be out of print, but if not, try Easons. |
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18 Mar 05 - 03:29 AM (#1437457) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: Boab The Grehan Sisters [sp?] do a great version of the "Orange and the Green" . I have it on cassette somewhere-------where?---dammit! |
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18 Mar 05 - 07:06 AM (#1437569) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: GUEST,eoin o'buadhaigh Thanks Poppagator for taking that as a joke,(as it was ment) some folk nowadays could easily have taken offence at my reply. I have in my collection a few books of orange and protestant songs and the best of them is a small paperback (orange in colour) called: A Collection of Orange and Protestant Songs compiled and arranged by Willam Peake, Downpatrick. There are 103 songs in this little book, printed and published by William Bridgett and sons 106 Great Victoria St, Belfast. When collecting traditional songs, you don't judge, they are all important. I hope everyone enjoyed Saint Patrick's day (I had to work) but today I'm setting off for Ballyliffin in good old Donegal for a weekend of singing and pints of the black stuff. I'll drink to your health Poppagator! cheers eoin |
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18 Mar 05 - 08:11 AM (#1437608) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: GUEST,Philippa "In Derry, the celebrations were more inclusive and more cross cultural." : included a Chinese dragon dance, samba, giant puppets but still a sea of green, Celtic t-shirts, etc. Strangely, very few at the Guildhall céilí sported the colours Wrinkles, "Hol yer wish" would be "houl' yer whist" (houl' meaning hold), as in "be quiet" |
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18 Mar 05 - 08:56 AM (#1437650) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: GUEST Ah, that would have been "cross-cultural" in Irish terms--the one where the Twa Trad Proddies still protest against all things Irish and refuse to participate, right? You can have all the Chinese dragons at the festivities you want, but the loyalists and unionists still don't join in, now do they? No, they don't. They are too busy holding press conferences denouncing their fellow countrymen, holding court in London and Washington denouncing their fellow countrymen, and practicing up for marching season. |
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18 Mar 05 - 11:08 AM (#1437712) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: GUEST Which of course are far more heinous crimes than killing your co-religionists for looking in an unapproved manner and covering up the evidence |
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18 Mar 05 - 01:34 PM (#1437773) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: GUEST,PoppaGator I was at work meself yesterday, but have been celebrating St. Patrick's "season" for more than a week and intend to continue this one final remaining weekend. I'm glad for all the Irish and Irish wannabees, worldwide, who have been able to join in good times and celebration. But my heart hurts for those who can't or won't due to hatred and sectarianism, whether on the part of their neighbors or themselves. |
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18 Mar 05 - 02:06 PM (#1437797) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: Big Tim Thank you GUEST for your mono-cultural opinion. |
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18 Mar 05 - 02:14 PM (#1437807) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: GUEST Oh get off yer high horses. Loyalist thugs killed an RUC man by kicking him to death outside a pub a few years back, with no one coming forward, just like this latest case. You didn't see his relatives paraded around Whitehall, Westminster, and the White House, now did you? It has nothing to do with monoculture, it has to do with a double standard over people being killed in pub brawls in the two communities where loyalists and republicans congregate. In other words, this whole bullshit "scandal" over the pub murder is being used as yet another excuse to bury the peace process, which the unionists, loyalists, and the British paramilitaries and politicians never intended to reach fruition anyway. |
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19 Mar 05 - 07:07 AM (#1438236) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: *#1 PEASANT* All the Loyalist, orange, Unionist songs you ever may want. Just another grand tradition- as a scholar to be fair I celebrate them both. One just cant celebrate March 17 without also celebrating the 12th of July. The songs are just as good. Here is my book of orange songs on line....have fun! http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5567/ooooo.html Conrad |
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19 Mar 05 - 05:21 PM (#1438483) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: Jimmy C I spent St. Pat's night singing to a mixed crowd in Ontario and there was no animosity, provided you steer clear of "party songs". Last night I played to another crowd( all catholic' again no out and out republican songs , just good folk songs from Ireland, Scotlnd, Canada, America, England etc. Tonight I'm off to perform at a Newfoundland Dinner and I don't know what to expect except good food, good company among the friendliest people on the planet. As an aside the main difference between Rebel Songs and Loyalist songs is that a great percentage of Rebel Songs are Pro-Irish whereas a great percentage of Loyalist songs are Anti-catholic. |
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20 Mar 05 - 12:53 AM (#1438712) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: GUEST,Toowtie I need to find the sheet music to French's "Phil the Fluther's Ball" immeidately. Does anyone have a copy of the book "Songs of Percy French" edited by James N. Healy of which I cannot order ANYWHERE! Can anyone help me? |
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20 Mar 05 - 02:29 AM (#1438738) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: Big Tim Toowtie, if you post your email, I'll send it to you. (I managed to buy that book quite recently, either on Amazon or ABE, can't recall which). |
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21 Mar 05 - 12:18 PM (#1439753) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: GUEST,Toowtie Thank you, thank you, thank you: Toowtie@yahoo.com |
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21 Mar 05 - 02:24 PM (#1439838) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: *#1 PEASANT* loyalist-unionist-orange related but not the same songs can be pro anything they want to be! if they are good songs for my ears at the time thats what I want! not necessary to exclude any of them really..... CB |
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21 Mar 05 - 10:00 PM (#1440160) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: GUEST Lambeg tunes are an endangered species! C.H. p.s. Lots of Protestants, Lots of Catholics, Precious few Christians! |
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22 Mar 05 - 01:08 AM (#1440268) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: michaelr DON'T POST YOUR EMAIL! |
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22 Mar 05 - 04:26 PM (#1440923) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: belfast My own copy of Healy's book of Percy French songs is old and crumbling but if you take this ISBN number 0 85342 394 6 to Abebooks.com you will find a couple of copies. |
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22 Mar 05 - 09:02 PM (#1441170) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: GUEST,Toowtie why not? I am new at this I didn't think it would be a problem? |
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23 Mar 05 - 04:02 AM (#1441329) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: Big Tim The reason is that it could can lead to unsolicited hate mail, especially re controversial topics. Joe Offer posted of just such a recent incident. But not, I think, with Percy French! |
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23 Mar 05 - 07:29 AM (#1441413) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: GUEST,Willy McBoyne It looks like that Rebel songs are freely available on Amazon and in record shops, from The Pogues to Christie Moore, but loyalist records are rare commodities indeed. A shame, as it would be nice to hear the other side of the argument. |
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23 Mar 05 - 07:31 AM (#1441414) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: MartinRyan Big Tim That reminds me.... Have you read French's arrranger/composer Collisson's description of his tour of Ireland at the beginning of the 20th. C.? Regards |
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23 Mar 05 - 08:37 AM (#1441461) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: Big Tim Martin: yes. I have Collisson's book: fascinating. Willy: Christy Moore, yes. Pogues, no. I have all their albums (6) and there's not one rebel song there. ("Birmingham Six" is a song about a grave injustice, not rebellion). The loyalist/unionist cultural and political perspective, I agree, deserves more coverage. But's that's to the l/u people to do so. I think it boils down to two things, 1, some of the l/u stuff is sectarian, and 2, the l/u's don't have as many sympathisers either wihin or outside of Ireland: smaller market. In recent years I've noticed a growth of interest in Ulster Scots history and culture. Two albums by a band called "Ailsa" are worth seeking out. These are totally non-sectarian, being mainly the setting to music of a selection of the works of the 19th century Ulster Scots poets. |
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24 Mar 05 - 02:48 AM (#1442279) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: Big Al Whittle theres a very good record store in Port Rush called Grahams, they've got most things. you could phone them up and ask. I saw a double cd of loyalist stuff on a market stall in Derby,if you want I could check and see if they've still got it, and post it to you. I seem to remember it was on a budget label. if you're really interested why not e mail the political parties and say you're interested, I'm sure they would have somebody interested in their cultural artefacts and bits and bobs. then you could have an evening at your folk club, like that scene in casablanca where both sides try to drown each others anthems out. the free french win of course....! |
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24 Mar 05 - 05:45 AM (#1442351) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: GUEST,eoin o'buadhaigh Willy McBoyne I am just back from a singing weekend in Ballyliffin and orange songs were sung amidst others! The Bold Orange heros of Comber springs to mind and I might add NOT sung by a protestant. Though I dont understand why it should be an issue, most (if not ALL) traditional singers dont sing songs (of any description) that might offend other singers in their company. When singers meet, either at a session or singing gathering it's like a family reunion, would you sing something to offend any of your family? A traditional ballad from either side is acceptable at any session, but not if it is intended to stir up trouble or hurt someone. Dolly's Brae is a great traditional ballad, The Hills of Carrowdore, The Defence of Crossgar to mention a few that that I have heard sung at sessions, so I don't know where you are coming from. cheers eoin |
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24 Mar 05 - 06:38 AM (#1442383) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: MartinRyan Sorry to miss Ballyliffin this year. I suspect I can guess who sang the Bold Orange Heroes...and probably guess what the song was that preceded it! Regards |
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24 Mar 05 - 07:01 AM (#1442403) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: GUEST,Philippa Seán Mone? I didn't see him there, but only stopped for Sat afternoon |
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24 Mar 05 - 07:11 AM (#1442423) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: GUEST,eoin o'buadhaigh Yes it was Sean, his party piece! Great session on Saturday night and Sunday, though Friday night was a bit noisey due to a couple of wedding parties going on at the same time. eoin |
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24 Mar 05 - 08:40 AM (#1442494) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: GUEST,mick I suggested a while back on Mudcat that The Rocks Of Bawn might be a loyalist song . The suggestion didn't go down very well .There are lots of Loyalist songs in Sam Henry's "Songs of the People" and many songs you would consider Rebel that are given a Loyalist setting .I don't know which versions came first. In Henry's version of An Irish Soldier Boy the boy dies fighting abroad with the British army not in Ireland fighting to free his native land. |
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24 Mar 05 - 01:01 PM (#1442738) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: GUEST,Uncle Jaque An Ancestor - James ADAMS - was a "Loyalist Scot" who came up on the losing end of the Battle of Dunbar in 1650. They sent him over to Saugus Mass. as an indentured servant, where he worked at the Iron Works until it went belly-up several years later. Somehow I think this conversation is about another place, another time... Although I've often wondered what kind of songs he might have sung. |
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24 Mar 05 - 03:34 PM (#1442894) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: Big Al Whittle Not really on the subject I know, but does anybody else remember that song Mike and Peggy Seeger used to do, The Popish lady. i wonder what the provenance of that was, I never thought to ask - sounded Appalachian....maybe I'm wrong. |
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05 Jan 10 - 10:24 AM (#2803967) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: GUEST,Rob H Im looking for a song called "The Court" i think its to the tune of the Borstal Boy. I'm Looking for it for my nephews funeral who was murdered in Glasgows East End on Xmas Night. Cheers Rob Hamilton |
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05 Jan 10 - 10:27 AM (#2803972) Subject: RE: Loyalist songs From: GUEST Looking for a song called "The Court" I think its to the tune of Borstal Boy. I'm looking to get it for my nephews funeral who was murdered in The East End of Glasgow on Xmas night. Hope someone can help Thanks Rob Hamilton. Glasgow |