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23 Mar 05 - 11:27 AM (#1441624) Subject: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: The Curator Today the Provisional Irish Republican Army condemned the recent murder of McCartney in their Easter address. Adding it was not carried out by them or on their behalf. They also made refererence to the fact that elements were attempting to discredit the organization by claims of involvement in criminal activity. So maybe this will put their recent put downs on this site to bed.No one will ever be able to show me or anyone else a statement issued by the army council which was later proven to be untrue. |
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23 Mar 05 - 02:45 PM (#1441806) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: GUEST Did someone kill Paul McCartney? I thought that it was John Lennon who was murdered. |
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23 Mar 05 - 03:51 PM (#1441870) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: Big Tim Come in Ard, your time is up! |
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23 Mar 05 - 04:10 PM (#1441892) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: GUEST,Barry O For some sharp comment on the whole sordid affair see http://www.portadownnews.com/ |
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23 Mar 05 - 05:41 PM (#1441951) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: greg stephens How about Martin McGuiness' statement (a) that he was not a member of the IRA in 1972 (b) that he was a menber of the IRA in 1972. There seems to be a slight hint of contradiction between the two. Does that have any relevance to the Curator's contention that the IRA's statements are always correct? |
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23 Mar 05 - 05:55 PM (#1441966) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: The Curator The Provisionals did not issue the statement regarding Martin. Hello again Guest, I am also a Beatles fan. |
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23 Mar 05 - 06:34 PM (#1441995) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: GUEST They know who did it. They won't turn them in. Still villains. |
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23 Mar 05 - 09:35 PM (#1442141) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: open mike thought it was Paul McCartney but any one is a terrible thing. |
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24 Mar 05 - 08:57 AM (#1442515) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: The Curator Turn them in to British justice ! Get real. |
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24 Mar 05 - 09:35 AM (#1442552) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: Noreen And justice meted out by the provisionals is fairer?? |
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24 Mar 05 - 10:06 AM (#1442578) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: Keith A of Hertford They have admitted already that some of their people were involved. No one has said that it was a planned execution. The killers, who were prominent and high ranking IRA and Sinn Fein officers, were having an off duty drink. However, when the mutilation of Mr.McCartney began, they assumed their paramilitary roles. They announced that it was IRA business. Did the statement mention that? Among the onlookers were relations, friends and neighbours of Mr. McCartney. What authority prevented them from sending for an ambulance for the suffering and dying victim? Any answer to that? Of course, someone was sent for. A team arrived who appeared to be trained and equipped to forensically clean murder scenes. Was it denied that they were acting for and on behalf of the Provisional IRA? Curator, you alone among the Nationalist contributors to this forum sing the praises of these people. Incidents like this give us all a glimpse of the face behind the balaclava. It is hideous. |
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24 Mar 05 - 10:16 AM (#1442589) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: Dave Hanson OK Curator, if IRA/Sinn Fein say it wasn't them whats all this crap about expelling members and offering to kill the murderers ? You are just another IRA/Sinn Fein apologist, get yourself accross to Warrington and apologise to the parents of the little boy killed by an IRA bomb in a waste bin. eric |
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24 Mar 05 - 10:58 AM (#1442616) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: Den I recently had the chance to speak to some friends in the Short Strand. I used to live in the Markets area across from the Short Strand on New Bonn Street which sadly got in the way of progress and no longer exists. A street of old three story character homes replaced with red brick boxes. Any way I digress. After speaking with my friends the consensus on the ground seems to be that this was an act of thuggery and people don't want to live with this happening in their neighbourhood. Even Gerry Adams has called it thuggery and called on anyone who has any information to come forward. There has even been a call for the IRA to disband. Why are the needed anymore? The way forward should be through political means. Sounds good on paper. But what if the IRA were to go away. What then. We don't seem to be progressing well politically do we. I think even a blind man on a galloping horse has at least some inkling that loyalists and unionists do not want to share power when it comes to the governance of N.Ireland. The loyalists are still armed to the teeth. Ethnic cleansing is still high on their agenda. As can be seen by all the attacks on immigrants of late. So its not only catholics that loyalists can't abide living with. The word rascist attack has now joined sectarian attack in the Ulster lexicon. So will the repackaged RUC have a sudden change of heart and decide maybe to serve and protect nationalists. Their record over the last thirty years speaks for itself in that regard. Supplying weapons to the loyalist trigger men. Giving them safe passage in and out of nationalist areas. Maybe the British army will fill the breach. No I'm afraid we've been down that road too. Their hands are as bloody as the loyalists. Hmmm what to do. Well I'm sure we'll have some advise soon from our resident experts and we can put it all behind us and get back to living together peacefully, happy ever after. Oh wait scratch get back to living peacfully. |
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24 Mar 05 - 12:17 PM (#1442702) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: DougR Why was McCartney murdered? Because of his religion? If so, hadn't he lived in the area for a long time? If so, why did the perps let him live so long? DougR |
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24 Mar 05 - 12:20 PM (#1442704) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: Wolfgang Religion has nothing to do with this murder. Wolfgang |
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24 Mar 05 - 01:24 PM (#1442763) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: The Curator As to your remark Keith that those who killed McCartney held rank, this is crap, they were volunteers, nothing more.No member of Sinn Fein who held a rating was there either.As to Erics remarks they were prepared to deal with their members, yes they were. More than the 27 members of the army/police who killed catholics whilst off duty ever faced.And Keith whilst this happened while they were not on active service, you are never off duty. |
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24 Mar 05 - 02:00 PM (#1442818) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: Keith A of Hertford I was only going by McCartney family statements on the ranking of those present. I expect they got it wrong. What about my other questions? |
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24 Mar 05 - 02:11 PM (#1442826) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: GUEST,Meself Alone Keith, I don't believe the McCartney's got it wrong. There again, it depends what you mean by "kill". The ranking person in question may not have actually stabbed Robert McCartney, beat him with a sewer rod, or kicked him in the head, but he was certainly there and played a major role in the murder. Such was his self-image that he asked Mr. McCartney: "Do you know who I am." I suspect that just about everyone in the bar knew who he was. Hence the deafening silence. |
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24 Mar 05 - 02:57 PM (#1442858) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: The Curator Have you two made a statement to the PSNI yet ? Every time I'm on this site I hear a little more added to it. All you are doing is regurgitating the british/Irish governments news stories, which in realiity is only taking a cheap shot at the Provisionals.Keith no one prevented anyone calling an ambulance, the call was made from a mobile phone within minutes from the scene. Really all you are doing is having a go at the movement, that's no problem you are entitled to your viewpoint. Yes I do defend the command and will continue to, if only to put the distorted facts right.I hope never to offend anyone. |
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24 Mar 05 - 04:27 PM (#1442922) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: GUEST,Meself Alone But Curator, we're only adding on the bits you somehow manage to subtract as you re-tell the slaughter of Robert McCartney. Keep this up and you'll be asking "What murder?". Baghdad Bob had nothing on you, Oul Hand. |
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25 Jun 05 - 05:13 AM (#1509317) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: The Curator A man who was stabbed outside a Belfast bar earlier this year was jailed for seven years yesterday for a Post Office robbery in which a security man was injured. Brendan Devine a close friend of Robert McCartney was the other injured party the day McCartney was murdered. In court he admitted he spend up to 1,000 a day on drugs, he also admitted it was him that attacked the security guard. He was part of a five strong gang, three were caught. The other two received seven year sentences in Belfast yesterday. |
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25 Jun 05 - 06:19 AM (#1509329) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: Big Al Whittle Sorry curator. a bit cryptic, your point? |
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25 Jun 05 - 11:57 AM (#1509513) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: The Curator Nothing cryptic about it. This news artical is about someone involved in this post.This is my point, clear enough for you ? |
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25 Jun 05 - 01:19 PM (#1509561) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: Big Al Whittle obviously I hadn't read the post carefully enough. okay I've read it all again. And yes it is a bit confusing. Not being argumentative, not being obstructive. i don't know any of these people. I find the point you are making difficult to understand. who was the man who was stabbed? who stabbed him? why? what had he to do with the murder of the other chap? Are you forwarding the theory that both incidents were a sort of clean up streets campaign by the IRA. Perhaps I have totally misunderstood. quite genuinely I am guessing. I will shut up and let you explain fully - the floor is yours:- |
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25 Jun 05 - 01:47 PM (#1509577) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: Alba "This news artical is about someone involved in this post" now there is a sweeping statement being flung out into cyber space!.. I think you should take the floor Curator as weelittledrummer suggests and articulate your explanations with a bit more care than you have so far. "clear enough for you ?" Well obviously NOT ! (In the interests of Clarity and understanding please) Jude |
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25 Jun 05 - 02:19 PM (#1509595) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: DougR Curator: are you implying that the robberies had some connection to McCartney's murder? Sorry, but I agree with the previous two posters that your posting is not very clear as to the point you are making. DougR |
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26 Jun 05 - 09:32 AM (#1510196) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: Keith A of Hertford The IRA have owned up to one unlawful killing. Poor 14 year old Kathleen Feenan, 30 years ago. One of their snipers hoped to kill a soldier patrolling the streets of Derry. He missed the whole patrol, but killed the girl. The patrol returned fire but the volunteer managed to run away. Rather than admit the crime, the IRA used it to stir up hatred against the army, claiming that a soldier fired the shot. Her parents say that it added to their pain. The IRA also executed a soldier in "reprisal" Curator, you have an insight into IRA policy, telling us in advance what they are going to say. Why have they suddenly admitted this? Did you already know the story was a lie? Keith. |
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26 Jun 05 - 10:27 AM (#1510243) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: Big Mick Keith, you did so well detailing that incident, I wonder if you would be so kind as to detail the civilian deaths and beatings by the various "Orange" folks? Also the deaths, beatings, and imprisonments without crime or trial at the hands of the SAS and British government? Oh ..... wait ..... my bad ....... Amnesty International and others have already detailed that. Skip the last one. Mick |
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26 Jun 05 - 10:47 AM (#1510261) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: The Curator Keith, It was the wish of the volunteer involved in the incident to make this statement. Yes maybe a little late for you. Regarding the incident, the volunteer did not miss the whole patrol. He was a sniper taking a long range difficult shot from an acute angle. His sight was for the last man in the patrol. The children came running into the street and as many of us who live here can recall, patrols often made their progress through areas among children. The shot should not have been taken, but it is easy to judge this from an armchair.The decision lay with the volunteer, after the action he made good his escape through a pre planned operation.There was eye witness reports of one soldier discharging his weapon twice after the event, but this was denied by the army at the time, which was not unusal. The volunteer admitted his shot killed the young girl. This was a difficult time in our history, and admissions by the British army where thin on the ground, so maybe they reacted by example. |
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26 Jun 05 - 02:50 PM (#1510398) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: Keith A of Hertford Mick, excellent point. Next time just type "WHAT ABOUT...", and we will all know that you mean "but other people do bad things too." Curator, I am glad for the soul of your volunteer that he needs to face up to what he has done. Do we take it then that otherwise PIRA would have sustained the lie? How many other inconvenient truths are they witholding? How should we judge their denials of complicity in, say, Northern Bank Raid, McCartney murder etc.? Keith. |
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26 Jun 05 - 03:01 PM (#1510410) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: Stu IRA apologists. Loyalist apolgists. British Army apologists. Politicians on all sides who seek to sustain the conflict. Up to their necks in gore and still unable to see the folly of their ways. |
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26 Jun 05 - 05:08 PM (#1510502) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: The Curator Keith, when it comes to lying about incidents that occured in my country, sadly we come a poor second to the forces of occupation. We should have learned more from them.The statement of admission regarding the shooting was probably issued by command at the request of the volunteer. Regarding the murder of McCartney, the movement were not involved in his death. The actions of individuals are another matter.The Provisional Irish Republican Army DID NOT SANCTION ANY ACT WHICH RELATED TO HIS DEATH.Regarding the Northern Bank robbery, seven months after the event we still have seen no evidence which connected PIRA to the raid. The only thing that mentions the PIRA is the media, regurgitating statements from both the Republic of Ireland's police force and the British PSNI via their governments. Both of these police forces have been found guilty in the courts of fabricating evidence against Republicans.So if you choose to believe them, fine. But do ask them to produce something more than WE BELIEVE. Hope everything is well by the way. |
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26 Jun 05 - 05:23 PM (#1510516) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: Keith A of Hertford Fine thanks mate. All the best to you and yours, Keith. |
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27 Jun 05 - 12:50 PM (#1511023) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: Keith A of Hertford Curator, Re those foot patrols. They would walk the same streets day after day to keep the peace, thanklessly, and fully exposed to sniper and bomb. I am guessing that you have done some rifle shooting, so I am surprised you make it sound so difficult to get to a safe vantage point, plug some poor lad in the back, and run away. Surely just pointless, risk free, killing. Like squashing a butterfly. Is it not the case that the gunmen had a slavering lust for English soldiers blood that made them utterly unconcerned for the safety of bystanders. Why else blow up pubs full of people in the hope a few off duty soldiers might be among the dead? Why else empty magazines into 3 Australian tourists because, as young lads with short haircuts, they might be off duty soldiers? Plant a bomb to dismember ceremonial cavalry men and their horses? The latest dirty little secret came out because of an attack of conscience. How rare that must be in those people. No one with a conscience could have been part of the "operation" when two off duty soldiers, aged seventeen, were lured to their executioners by 2 pretty Judas girls. Or planting bombs in busy shopping streets and, when ordinary shoppers and children die, blame the police for not evacuating them quickly enough. I would be ashamed to be associated with any unit who behaved so badly. |
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27 Jun 05 - 02:14 PM (#1511076) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: The Curator Keith,Regarding your soldiers keeping the peace, I can recall many incidents in my own life where I would question that. I see you recall many events that occurred over thiry years, none of which the forces of occupation carried out of course. Would you really like me to run a list past you ? The work of a sniper is not an easy one, ask any British soldier, you have to first select your location without arousing interest, then return through an area where there could possibly be road checkpoints, take your shot, and in most cases it will only be one shot,and make good your escape. Yes I have known many that carried out this work, and their nerve proved to be something else.It was not as simple as you make it out to be. I have spoken to many British soldiersi recent times through my work who served here during those years and they may not have held Provisonals in high esteem, but they did respect them.As to mistakes caused by active service units, these do occur, Look at the British army in Iraq. All of the active service units North and South have been stood down, and we all hope it remains to stay that way. I hope this explaination I have given answers some of your questions, I could have listed as I said incidents in which the British army killed at will, but I prefer not to go down that road. It was a long time ago. And yes I have recalled examples in the past, but seen the error in that. I do condem the loss of life be it from whatever quarter. |
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28 Jun 05 - 06:32 AM (#1511500) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: Wolfgang And respondintg to a criticism of someone you admire by pointing off into the distance to someone you think the person who made the criticism might admire is never a valid way of arguing. (McGrath) Wolfgang |
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28 Jun 05 - 11:58 PM (#1512189) Subject: RE: BS: Provisionals condemn McCartney murder From: GUEST Depends on how far the distance is, Wolfgang... If it's fairly close to home, it's called corroboration. |