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28 Mar 05 - 11:38 PM (#1445686) Subject: BS: Codax Alimentarius-limits on vitamins From: GUEST,Rustic Rebel I would like to make you all aware of this or discuss this issue on Codax Alimentarius. The codex committee on nutrition and foods for special dietary needs (CCNFSDU) are making the guidelines for the usage of vitamins and mineral supplements. This has been an ongoing thing for years. Last fall the guidelines were put into place. What could happen is the regulating of vitamins and minerals that we can buy in an over-the-counter form. Apparently what is happening is the CCNFSDU will make this a law that, because of the World Trade Organization(WTO), everyone will have to follow these guidelines. My fear and my question is, will this become a beginning to regulating our health food stores and herbs also? From what I have read, even vitamin C is on the list because taken in higher doses causes diarrhea. Please give me a break! It does do this, but has anyone heard of the vitamin C flush? I look at this as another corporate take-over from the big drug companies. I found American Holistic Health Association (AHHA) to be an enlightening place to check this out. Anybody want to discuss? |
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28 Mar 05 - 11:41 PM (#1445687) Subject: RE: BS: codax alimentarius-limits on vitamins From: GUEST "regulating our health food stores and herbs" And why not regulate that cr@p as well? |
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29 Mar 05 - 12:04 AM (#1445692) Subject: RE: BS: codax alimentarius-limits on vitamins From: GUEST Okay good point, that "crap" as you call it is our natural medicine cabinet and if corporate pharmaceutical companies get the stronghold, we won't be seeing much of these herbs on shelves. I would like to add another link here Gary Null another interesting site with great links and explaination about what is happening. |
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29 Mar 05 - 09:03 AM (#1445788) Subject: RE: BS: codax alimentarius-limits on vitamins From: GUEST,Rapaire Look. The "natural medicines" are made up of chemicals. Yes. There may be a whole lot of them mixed up together, but they're chemicals. C6H12O6 -- that's fructose, which is also called levulose. Glucose is the same -- the difference is in the ring structures. On March 24, 2003, the Archives of Internal Medicine reported: Methods One of each single-herb Echinacea preparations that were available in August 2000 was obtained from several stores in the Denver, Colo, area. Thin-layer chromatography (TLC) was used to determine species and measure quantity. From this information, accuracy of species labeling and comparison of constituent to labeled content were assessed. The samples were stratified by whether they were labeled as standardized, and the standardized and nonstandardized samples were compared by ratio of constituent to labeled content. Results Of the samples, 6 (10%) of 59 preparations contained no measurable Echinacea. The assayed species content was consistent with labeled content in 31 (52%) of the samples. Of the 21 standardized preparations, 9 (43%) met the quality standard described on the label. Labeled milligrams were weakly associated with measured constituent (r = 0.35; P = .02). Conclusions Echinacea from retail stores often does not contain the labeled species. A claim of "standardization" does not mean the preparation is accurately labeled, nor does it indicate less variability in concentration of constituents of the herb. If you want to take herbal supplements, why not grow and prepare your own? Then you're sure of the quality and can work without the FDA being involved. |
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29 Mar 05 - 10:50 AM (#1445859) Subject: RE: BS: codax alimentarius-limits on vitamins From: GUEST,Rustic Rapaire, I do grow many medicinal herbs, many I can't because of the growing zone I'm in (I push zone 4 plants, some with success). I also know the woods are full. I tried to find where you found this info before answering about this but I couldn't, so I'm going to go blind on this. Of all the doctors I know or have gone to, none of them believe in the power of herbs, with one exception, my chiropractor. This leads me to believe they are invested into the drug companies! (One of these days I'm going to ask my Dr. if he is) All know, that herbs were the first medicines and still many drugs are extracted from herbs, many are synthetic. I will not dispute the fact that there are herbal companies out there that are doing the same thing corporate drugs are. Trying to make the big bucks. That is a sad fact. But, there are also many companies that have what they say in their capsules. But, this really wasn't my point to begin with. My point is the regulations of vitamins and minerals. Sure I can eat a bag of oranges to get the Vitamin C, I can eat a field of spinach to get my calcium,I can go out and grind up some rocks to get my minerals, but I confess, it's really easier to eat my daily dose of calcium and multi-vitamin from a pill. Damn I'm lazy huh? The codex alimentarius is little known to people because it's one of those secrets kept quite untill it's too late to change it. It seems to me it's another take over by the rich. Don't get me wrong though, some people who take supplements probably do mis-use them. That's what labels are for and so what is going on in effect, is once again people are being dumbed and controlled as if they can't make a decision for themselves on how much vitamin D they can take. |
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29 Mar 05 - 04:36 PM (#1446193) Subject: RE: BS: codax alimentarius-limits on vitamins From: TheBigPinkLad Hi Rustic The codex alimentarius is there to protect you (and me) from charletans, snake-oil salesmen and wankers like Gary Null. Leaving aside the argument about the efficacy of herbal medicine, there is currently no regulation to make sure Supplements-R-Us are giving you what they say they are. I'm surprised you take the advise of your chiropractor over your MD. |
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29 Mar 05 - 06:17 PM (#1446327) Subject: RE: BS: codax alimentarius-limits on vitamins From: Rapparee Odd, Rustic. My doctors, in South Bend, Cincinnati, and here have all known about the various supplements and have even recommended some when they felt it was called for. I'm sitting here at home instead of being at work because my throat is raw from postnasal drip, coughing, and generally ugly stuff. I went to the doctor and upon examination he found that my right ear was infected, as well as other parts. I'm on Augmentin; Amoxycillin has been used so much for this sort of thing that it's no longer effective (although it is cheaper). I'm also taking Guaifenesin (at his suggestion, but I was anyway) and Tylenol with codeine to kill the coughing. I tried to find out the ultimate source for Guaifenesin -- whether it was herbal or not -- but couldn't. I *did* find out that there is a Guaifenesin protocol for Fibromyalgia, and I'll be telling a friend with it about it. I am NOT against herbal meds. Heck, salcylic acid is found in willow bark, ginko does seem to help with memory, sawtooth palmetto with prostate problems. What I am against is using them to the total exclusion of other drugs. I am also very much against forcing them into "unnatural" uses -- coffee enemas come to mind, but there are many others. My point is that all herbals come down to organic chemistry. |
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29 Mar 05 - 06:25 PM (#1446338) Subject: RE: BS: codax alimentarius-limits on vitamins From: Metchosin So does everything we ingest including all food, if you care to look at it that way. |
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29 Mar 05 - 06:41 PM (#1446349) Subject: RE: BS: codax alimentarius-limits on vitamins From: Rapparee Dead on, Metchosin. My point exactly. But I'd rather have a nice meal than consume a collection of organic compounds. |
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29 Mar 05 - 08:02 PM (#1446407) Subject: RE: BS: codax alimentarius-limits on vitamins From: Rustic Rebel Rapaire- This is for you... clickie (elephant care HA!) BigPinkLad, Yes, my chiropractor gives me valerian to relax. He believes in calcium and supplements. Why is Gary Null a wanker? I don't see anything he is doing to justify being a wanker. He lists links from American Association for health freedom, American holistic health Assn., he seems to be on the level with his info. If any of you take any kind of supplements, and I know there are people on mudcat that do, these links are a good to know information sites. Gary Null is not alone. There are a lot of folks out there with an opinion that is like mine. I do not want my vitamin C to be regulated to 200 mg when I do about 2500-to 4000 daily, and I do not want to have to have a perscription to take it. Canada is already getting cut off on many herbs and supplements that we still have access to, here in the states, but for how long? Until July of this year. |
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29 Mar 05 - 08:41 PM (#1446444) Subject: RE: BS: codax alimentarius-limits on vitamins From: Bunnahabhain Be glad you're in the US. The EU has banned any dietry suppliments unless they've had full, large scale safety tests. I believe asprin had to have a new study done to prove it was safe. A century plus of use isn't enough.... Someone might pay for them on drugs, but which Drug Company will pay for the studies on herbs it can't patent? Bunnhabhain |
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29 Mar 05 - 09:14 PM (#1446478) Subject: RE: BS: codax alimentarius-limits on vitamins From: rich-joy Yes Bunnahabhain! That is part of the Drug Companies' problem - they can't patent a natural form, so they'll do their utmost to ensure it is banned as untested and unsafe (never mind CENTURIES of successful use!) - witness the banning of Comfrey (just coz ingesting a whole gardenfull in one sitting will prove fatal - duh!). We are quietly having our commonsense undermined and our power to choose (and our choice!) removed from us, so the Drug Companies can increase profits and ownership, aided and abetted by the AMA and related bodies. BEWARE!!! A highly recommended read is : "Green Pharmacy : the History and Eviolution of Western Herbal Medicine" by Barbara GRIGGS - 1997 - which is actually a history of medicine and pharmaceuticals too. It is a real eye-opener and an extremely interesting read (covers much american medical practice too - speaking of snake-oil and charlatans! Also shows how "new" in mankind's history the Drug Company pharmaceuticals really are ...) See also books by Phillip Day and the "campaign for truth" publications on our health rights and their destruction by the EEC/EU (e.g.) bureaucrats. Cheers! R-J |
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30 Mar 05 - 10:23 AM (#1446897) Subject: RE: BS: codax alimentarius-limits on vitamins From: GUEST The following herbs are among many considered by the Health Protection Branch to be harmful substances which may be seized by Customs or wherever they are sold. American Mandrake, Mayapple American Mistletoe, False Mistletoe American Pennyroyal oil American Sassafras oil Autumn Crocus, Meadow Saffron Barberry root and its extract Betel Nut Bittersweet, Nightshade Bloodroot Brazilian Sassafras oil, Ocotea Cymbarum oil Calabar Bean Calamus Camphor Oil Cannabis Sativa Cascara Sagrada Castor Bean Catha Edulis Chaparral Coltsfoot Common Celandine Common Comfrey Coonties Seeds, Florida Arrowroot Seeds Croton Daphne, Mezereum Deadly Nightshade Devil Pepper Dogbane Ephedra Euphorbia, Spurge European Mandrake European Mistletoe berries European Pennyroyal Oil Foxglove Germander Ginkgo Biloba Seed and Fruit Golden Ragwort Gotu Kola Hemlock Henbane Kenbane Horse Chestnut Jimson Weed, Thornapple Lantana Lily of the Valley Lobelia, Indian tobacco Micranthrum Oil Narcissus, Daffodil, Jonquil Opium Poppy Poison Nut Prickley Comfrey Ragwort Red Baneberry Red Pokeweed Russian Comfrey Sage Oil Savan Oil Senna Spanish Arrowroot Spreading Dogbane, Bitter Root Strophanthus Tansy Oil Thuja, White Cedar Tonka Bean White Bryony White Baneberry Wormseed Yellow Jessamine Yohimbe Over the past decade, the HPB has removed at least the following natural supplements from Canadian health food stores. They are generally available in the USA without prescription. Pau D'Arco (taheebo) Arginine Ornithine Lysine Carnitine Tyrosine D,L-Phenylalanine Goldenseal Tryptophan Kava Kava Melatonin DHEA Pregnenolone Stevia Chromium Picolinate Germanium Zinc, Manganese and anything else picolinate Vitamin K Cramp Bark Boron Selenomethione Horsetail Sodium Oxide Dismutase I took this list off of a webpage that I cannot remember the name but I believe the HBP is Canadian. Somewhere on the page the author had also mentioned caspium in danger. Caspium! Okay so they are going for the foods now. Madamn, do you have any peppers to claim? "Unless we put medical freedom into the Constitution, the time will come when medicine will organize into an underground dictatorship... To restrict the art of healing to one class of men and deny equal privileges to others will constitute the Bastille of medical science. All such laws are un-American and despotic and have no place in a republic... The Constitution of this republic should make special privilege for medical freedom as well as religious freedom."--Dr Benjamin Rush, signer of the Declaration of Independence. |
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30 Mar 05 - 11:25 AM (#1446935) Subject: RE: BS: codax alimentarius-limits on vitamins From: GUEST,Rapaire Well, I can understand why some those things can be seized. Nightshade, Croton, Jimson Weed, and Hemlock, for instance, can kill you. Of course, as with any of them, much depends upon the plant itself and the soil it's grown in to determine its potency. You can even graft common tomato to Jimson Weed. It produces HUGE tomatoes and about 50% of them will have no effect upon the eater. The rest can (and have) caused problems ranging from hallucinations to a quick and painful death. Croton Oil, a VERY powerful purgative, comes from Croton and a very little goes a very long way -- a little too much and you die, running at both ends. |
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30 Mar 05 - 05:05 PM (#1447166) Subject: RE: BS: codax alimentarius-limits on vitamins From: Metchosin Some plants on the list are definitely harmful, others are on the list as a direct result of politics. I trust neither side implicity on this subject. Follow the bucks. Stevia, a native of South America is a case in point. It has been used as a sweetener in south America for hundreds and hundreds of years. It also has been on the Japanese market as a sweetener since the 1970's and is far superior to artificial sweeteners. If you drink a Diet Coke in Japan, you are ingesting Stevia and the Japanese have rigorously tested this plant and have never found anything that would contraindicate its use. Odd how Japanese scientific research is deemed beyond reproach when it suits certain interests. On one hand, Agriculture Canada is trying to develop Stevia plants which can be commercially harvested in this country, probably with enough changes that the seed can be patented, while Health Canada maintains a ban on its import and use. Sweet and Low anybody?.....sweet and low cunning..... |
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30 Mar 05 - 07:14 PM (#1447347) Subject: RE: BS: codax alimentarius-limits on vitamins From: GUEST,leeneia Does anybody remember the Adele Davis affair? (1970's, I believe). She wrote a book advocating that parents give their children thousands of units of vitamin A. The result- some children were rushed to emergency rooms, hemorraghing. Her publisher settled out of court. Vitamins and "herbals" are chemicals, and taken into the body in wrong amounts or at the wrong time, they can hurt you. Somebody needs to be on the qui vive to prevent charlatans from hurting others by marketing dangerous compounds. Re: "Of all the doctors I know or have gone to, none of them believe in the power of herbs, with one exception, my chiropractor. This leads me to believe they are invested into the drug companies!" 1. Chiropractors have no training in internal medicine (where herbs would come in.) Chiropractors are licensed to do massage and "adjustments." Your chiropractor is practicing medicine without training or a license. 2. Your logic is weak. |
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30 Mar 05 - 09:53 PM (#1447469) Subject: RE: BS: codax alimentarius-limits on vitamins From: Rapparee As for chiropractic -- I wouldn't go near one. I would go to an osteopath without hesitation; their training is fully as rigorous as that of an MD and in some cases, such as anatomy, more so. Homeopathy: no. Naturopathy: no. Aroma therapy, no. Much, but by no means all, herbal therapy: no. What I try to do is to practice good hygiene, a balanced diet and life, and laugh a lot. When I do become ill, I go to a pro. |
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31 Mar 05 - 12:19 AM (#1447535) Subject: RE: BS: codax alimentarius-limits on vitamins From: Rustic Rebel I like my chiropractor when I need to go to him. Leeneia, you assume he is limited in just that field of medicine. Leeneia, you also state my logic is weak, on what grounds, you don't. I've studied herbs for over 20 years. I grow them, prepare them in tinctures, salves and ointments, infusions, etc. I admit I am not a pharmacognostic and I don't know all the chemical constituents of every plant. I do know plants though. For example, I know not to use foxglove- it's digitalis used for heart patients and very powerful. I know many of those plants listed above are harmful. I know that they are chemicals! Tell me what isn't, including food. I believe in good nutrition. That of course is the first step to a healthy body and mind. I'm not a freak when it comes to ODing on supplements and I don't know why I am feeling like I have to explain all this when I just wanted people to become aware of the Codax Alimentarius!! If your aware of it, cool. If not read some links and base your opinions on that. So with that I'm going to add another article of interest..No more fake news Peace and love, munching on gingered dandelion with a hint of garlic, Rustic |