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02 Apr 05 - 02:53 AM (#1449805) Subject: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: GUEST,proxy04@mikanet.com Hi, all. My mom used to sing me to sleep with a pun-infested lullaby titled "Do Ships Have Eyes?", and I've been trying to find the origins of the tune and lyrics. So far, I haven't found anyone else who knows this one, although the public library in Herkimer, NY apparently has a book which lists the song title and suggests the tune from "The Wearing of the Green." The lyrics are: Do ships have eyes when they go to sea? Are there springs in the ocean's bed? Does the Jolly Tar* flow from a tree? Can a river lose its head? Could you bring relief to a window pane? Or mend the break of day? Would you paint a rabbit on a bald man's head, Just to give him a bit of hare? If you ate a square meal would the corners hurt? Can you dig with the Ace of spades? Would you throw a rope to a drowning lemon, Just to give a lemon aid? * a sailor (we had to look that up) For the tune as I know it, follow the link for an MP3 of my mom singing it to my daughter when she was 3. http://www.mikanet.com/public/9804eyes.mp3 Ring a bell, anyone? - Duff |
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02 Apr 05 - 11:27 AM (#1450058) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: Charley Noble Nice, but no clue where it came from. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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02 Apr 05 - 11:28 AM (#1450062) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: GUEST yes, one red one, one green one. |
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02 Apr 05 - 04:42 PM (#1450321) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: MartinRyan Aye, aye! regards |
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02 Apr 05 - 07:11 PM (#1450442) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: McGrath of Harlow In some places boats normally have eyes, so they can see whewre they are going. Here is one such boat, in Malta. |
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02 Apr 05 - 08:34 PM (#1450521) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: Charley Noble McGrath- Really not the poster's question but an interesting aside. Charley Noble |
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02 Apr 05 - 08:39 PM (#1450523) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: Lady Hillary Clearly, the eyes can be found in the head. |
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02 Apr 05 - 09:26 PM (#1450550) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: Amos The running lights are not the ship's eyes; they are typically amidships. A ship does have an area called the eyes of the ship up forward near the pointy end, but the expression is not much used. Ancient vessels and some modern fishing boats often had eyes painted on either side of the prow as a guarantee against getting lost or running into something. A |
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02 Apr 05 - 09:55 PM (#1450565) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: rich-joy This is an intriguing little song and I hope some 'Catter can shed some light ... As regards the first line : The sacred Egyptian symbol, The Eye of Maat (later called the Eye of Horus) and known as the UTCHAT, was painted on both boats and funerary equipment, as a prophylactic against all manner of evils - and many Mediterranean boats still have these eyes painted on, to guard against losing their way. Cheers! R-J |
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03 Apr 05 - 12:53 AM (#1450622) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Proxy04, thanks for the lyrics and the tune. I hope the author can be named. There are many ballads about the 'jolly tar'; I like the image raised in this song. |
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03 Apr 05 - 11:15 AM (#1450825) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: Uncle_DaveO This is not your song, but it's to The Wearin' of the Green" and is "infested with puns", to use your expression: BORN IN CINCINNATI (To the tune of The Wearin' o' The Green) I was born in Cincinnati Up in Iceland, in the South And that's the very reason why My voice is in my mouth. 'Twas a hot and frosty morning, Yes, quite windy, I believe, And the great big trees were making boughs For they were going to leave. And I went to sleep in a river Just because it had a bed And I took a sheet of water Just to cover up my head. If a rooster could but carry a hod, A hen would lay a brick. There are cripples dying nowadays Because they cannot kick. And the veg'tables were racing To win the Butter Cup, And the cabbage got so far a-head The tomatoes couldn't ketchup. And the pigs was making pigsties And the grass was making hay, And the bumblebees was making bum . . . . For Ta-ra-bum-de-ay! Collected in Minnesota in the late 40s, from an old (then about 70) Irishman named Frank McGovern (my stepfather) Dave Oesterreich |
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03 Apr 05 - 02:14 PM (#1450928) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: McGrath of Harlow It might not have been the question asked by the poster, but it's the question asked by the song! |
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03 Apr 05 - 03:05 PM (#1450971) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: Megan L another brief deviation from the original question. duff said they had to look up Jolly Tar to find out it meant a sailor, this name came about as a result of the pigtail worn by sailors in the 18th century. The older habit of sailors wearing a pigtail [rather than a queue] was a protection against a cut to the back of the neck -- from sword or dirk -- during close fighting, as would be encountered in boarding an enemy vessel or in repelling boarders. Often, sailors would stiffen their pigtails with tar before such combat, in order to provide added protection. Such a dressing for the neck was a regular feature of the preparations for battle by the Royal Marines and soon became a standard of their habit regardless of whether or not battle was expected. They also have their hair in a queue, a practice which was abolished in 1808. Ok i ken maist o ye knew that but an auld lass has tae get a word in some weys :) Meg |
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03 Apr 05 - 03:48 PM (#1451029) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: Don Firth Couple thousand years ago, Greek and Roman battleships (triremes) had eyes painted on the prow. Modern reproduction. Another. Details. Before cannon, sea battles involved trying to a) board the enemy ship and do battle hand to hand; b) set the enemy ship on fire; or c) ram it an sink it. Triremes generally had one or two square-rigged sails, but for battle, the main form of propulsion consisted of three banks of oars ("tri-" as opposed to "bireme," two banks of oars.). The prow of the trireme was a metal-clad ram at, or under, the waterline that extended several yards in front of the bow of the ship. When a trireme bore down on you swiftly, intending to ram you amidships, prominent in your view would be a pair of fearsome looking eyes. "Here's looking at you, kid!" Pretty fair reprsentation of triremes in action in the Elizabeth Taylor / Richard Burton epic Cleopatra. Don Firth |
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03 Apr 05 - 04:56 PM (#1451106) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: Uncle_DaveO There can easily be confusion about the "-reme" description of the ancient shipping. While bireme and trireme ships had two and three banks of oars, surprisingly enough quadriremes and quinquiremes did not have four and five banks of oars. The usage was confused, but what seems to be the case is that the "tri-" in some cases, and the "quadri-" and "quinqui-" roots refer not to the number of banks of oars but to the number of rowers per oar. A greater number of oar-banks than three is mechanically impracticable. The angle of the fourth and fifth banks, if there were such, would mean that those oars would have to be way too long to be effective, and there would be real problems keeping the sets of oars from interfering with each other. Dave Oesterreich |
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04 Apr 05 - 02:09 PM (#1451879) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: Charley Noble Well, even our old skiff had a wicked set of "eyes" as well as "teeth" painted on the bow so as to freighten the yachting crowd down at the marina. My brother and I modeled it after some WW-II PT boats we'd seen pictures of. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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04 Apr 05 - 02:47 PM (#1451910) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: Mr Happy i's? of coarse! ess,aitch, 'eye'[eye, skipper!], pee! |
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04 Apr 05 - 08:37 PM (#1452195) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: Don Firth More on triremes. As ancient ship-building got more sophisticated, they tried all kinds of configurations. Given several centuries to work on it, they managed to iron out a lot of wrinkles, until at the Battle of Actium (depicted in Cleopatra), they were using quadriremes, quinqueremes, and even larger vessels. Clicky. Interesting! Scroll down to "The Big Ones." Don Firth |
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04 Apr 05 - 08:46 PM (#1452201) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: Dave (the ancient mariner) In the words of a Polynesian boat builder "no hab eyes how can see?" |
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19 Apr 05 - 04:56 PM (#1465728) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: dkurland (Formerly proxy04... I've joined now.) Sorry to see no theories on the origin of the song yet, although the discussion of ships' eyes and running lights is illuminating :-) and I really enjoyed Uncle_DaveO's song. Still wondering... |
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06 Nov 11 - 07:52 PM (#3251708) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: GUEST,asdf_guy it's a nice poem, but i don't know where it's from. sry. :P |
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07 Nov 11 - 01:14 AM (#3251796) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: JohnInKansas I don't recognize the poem, although there were a number of somewhat similar ones in circulation in times within memory. "Nonsense" poems, sometimes called "doggerels" appear to have been popular among teenagers of my mother's generation judging from her "autograph books." (early-mid 1920s?) As to ships having eyes, among many sailors up to "almost modern" times, the eyes of the ships were said to be provided by the Figurehead, and I was taught (possibly incorrectly) that there were numerous "mystic beliefs" relating to the "doom of the vessel" if the figurehead was lost or damaged. It appears that the three ships sailed by Columbus had no figureheads, which some might say explains why he didn't know where he was when he got to where he wasn't but thought he was. (I always thought the "lions rampant" used as figureheads on some British (and Spanish?) ships were sort of a cop-out, since the FHs supposedly served the dual purpose of being a reminder of "back home," but maybe that's how the Brits thought of their "women left behind" (?). Folklore has lots of songs about what the women thought of sailors, but ...) John |
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07 Nov 11 - 04:44 AM (#3251832) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: Paul Burke I'm sorry if I missed someone pointing it out above, but the pun is much simpler than the traditional painted eyes on boats (also traditional on British canal boats), or anchor chain holes or whatever. It's just go to sea/ go to see. |
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07 Nov 11 - 07:40 AM (#3251904) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: Lighter The real question is whether pitchers have ears. Or am I thinking of walls? |
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07 Nov 11 - 08:45 AM (#3251937) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: GUEST With regard to "Jolly Tars" I was told recently that the sailors also used the tar in their queue as a handy supply of tar to give their hands a better grip on a line when they were hauling or when working aloft. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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30 Jul 16 - 01:49 PM (#3802756) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: GUEST,Malcolm Bauer My parents samg this song to me as a lullaby in the 1960s in New York city. Lyrics were the same except instead of the "bald man ... hare" they sang: "Do you find your dairy man each morn and night Selling milk from the milky way?" Any progress on where it's from? Thanks, Malcolm |
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30 Jul 16 - 05:12 PM (#3802783) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: keberoxu Books.google.com scared this up. Do ships have eyes when they go to sea? Are there springs on the ocean bed? Can a jolly tar spring from a tree? Can a river lose its head? Are fishes crazy when found in seine? Can an old hen sing her lay? Can you bring relief to a window pane? Can you mend the break of day? Is a king all well when he's through his reign? Is a newspaper white when it is read? Is a baker poor when he's kneading dough? Is an undertaker's business dead? Is this the reason people don't move, Because they are so staid? Would you throw a rope to a drowning lemon, Just to bring the lemon aid? attributed to the magazine "Searchlight" quoted in: Correct English and Current Literary Review, Volume V, no. 1 © 1904 by editor, Josephine Turck Baker |
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30 Jul 16 - 05:30 PM (#3802786) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: keberoxu as well as: What kind of food is a watchman's beat? Does the old hen sing her lay? Did you ever see a poem trip with its feet? What kind of notes does the banker play? Is Father Time a thief if he steals the hours away? Did you ever see a tinker mend the break of day? Does a ship have eyes when it goes to sea? When does a river lose its head? Does the "jolly tar" ooze from a tree? Are there any springs to the ocean's bed? Will a blacksmith's vise make him lose his soul? Who can shingle a watershed? To whom does the church bell pay its toll? Can a book be black and white and read? Can a haul of fish for a fish ball be hired? Is a mountain climb like May? Will a foreign clime make anyone tired? Can a donkey be fed on a brae? attributed to "E. A. M." quoted in the Pacific Rural Press and California Fruit Bulletin, March 3, 1906, San Francisco, California page 136 |
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01 Aug 16 - 05:51 PM (#3803094) Subject: RE: Origins: Do Ships Have Eyes? From: keberoxu Well, the following version says at the bottom: "FROM THE BOSTON GLOBE," which stopped me in my tracks...so I went looking in the Boston Globe Archives search engine...got absolutely noplace. So: Here's the earliest version I could scare up. QUESTIONS Do ships have eyes when they go to sea? Are there springs in the ocean's bed? Does a "jolly tar" ooze from a tree? Can a river lose its head? What kind of food is a watchman's beat? Can an old loom sing its lay? Can a poem trip without its feet? What notes does the gambler pay? Will a blacksmith's vise condemn his soul? Can a book be white and read? To whom does the church bell pay its toll? Who shingles a water shed? If a minstrel boy can sing his lay, Can a ship sing her "lay-to"? Do tigers ask for grace when they prey? Can a bugle note come due? Is "Father Time" a noted thief For stealing the hours away? Can you give a window-pane relief? Can you mend the break of day? Will a foreign clime make anyone tired? Is a mountain climb like May? Can a haul of fish for balls be hired? Can donkeys feed on a brae? Is a purchase made when shoes are soled? Can an axe the rainbow hue? If I keep on twisting the tale I've told, Pray what will your readers do? -- Boston Globe. found in: The Notre Dame Scholastic, Vol. 23, no. 35 : page 562 May 10, 1890. |
