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09 Apr 05 - 08:11 AM (#1456124) Subject: Stretching Yourself From: Jerry Rasmussen Yesterday, I was talking with a friend who is singing in a choir for the first time in his life. He asked me a question that caught me off guard: "Do you sing differently when you sing a lead in a choir?" I'm still thinking of the answer to that one. I talked mostly about how singing in a black male chorus (which is different than a choir, because we learn our harmonies by ear, rather than sheet music) has changed the way I sing. It's been an amazing experience for me. I remember Poppa Gator talking about singing with a band behind him, doing old R & B and how he had to stretch himself to do it. And, that got me thinking about stretching yourself. Musically. Most recently, I've been asked to play electric guitar, accompanying the pianist of one of the male gospel choruses I sing with. I was a little unsure of myself, but am glad that I agreed to do it. Stretching yourself is a wonderful way to grow musically (and in other unexpected ways, too.) For starters, when you accompany a pianist you end up playing in keys that aren't even on a guitar... Aflat and Bflat. I don't do bar chords, so I am thankful to Mr. Capo. Fred Capo. Playing in keys that I don't normally play in (even capoing, the key of A is not one I play a lot in, and I'm finding new bass runs and positions) is forcing me to try new things. And that's always good. Also, accompanying a piano, you have to look for different "holes" in the music where you can complement the instrument. And some of the rhythms are less familiar to me. As a musician who has almost always played and sung by myself, playing music and singing with other musicians is a wonderful opportunity for me to climb up out of old ruts and be musically refreshed. Every time I have that chance, I grab it. So, I was just wondering... what situations require you to stretch yourself, musically? I'd like to hear about them. And then maybe I'll try answering that question about singing lead in a choir (or better yet, someone else can answer it first..) Jerry |
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09 Apr 05 - 08:50 AM (#1456156) Subject: RE: Stretching Yourself From: The Fooles Troupe For any skill, stretching is necessary to advance. But trying to bite off more than one can chew at once can cause you to get discouraged. Make haste slowly. |
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09 Apr 05 - 09:01 AM (#1456167) Subject: RE: Stretching Yourself From: Jerry Rasmussen Biting off more than you can chew causes indigestion. :-) Jerry |
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09 Apr 05 - 09:07 AM (#1456169) Subject: RE: Stretching Yourself From: The Fooles Troupe ... and that's one thing that stretching can't help, cause it's a gut level problem... :-0 |
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09 Apr 05 - 06:37 PM (#1456587) Subject: RE: Stretching Yourself From: PoppaGator When someone asks you to do something musically (sing or play in their choir/band/combo/whatever), and you doubt your ability to measure up, rather than beg off you should take it as a challenge and jump in. The person doing the inviting may have a truer picture of your potential abilities than you do ~ you're much too conscious of what you can and can't do right now for you to be a good onjective judge of what you'll be able to do within a whole new context. Try to take the attitude that an opporunity is being dropped into your lap. Even if you may not fully deserve the confidence being placed in your skills, somebody thinks you do deserve it, and you should be gracious enough to give it a shot. |
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09 Apr 05 - 09:58 PM (#1456707) Subject: RE: Stretching Yourself From: Jerry Rasmussen Hey, Poppa: If this is the last post before this thread dies, it was worth starting it, just for what you wisely said. I'm afraid that all of us sell ourselves short sometimes because we're afraid of making fools out of ourselves. (Not that we don't from time to time, anyway.) But, there are times when a door is opened and we're too timid to walk through it. The director of the Male chorus I sing in has always had a better sense of what I can do than I have. Each year, when we do our anniversary concert, he asks me to do a song that I am unsure of being able to do. But, I've come to trust his judgment even more than my own, because he has been right every time. If I hadn't taken the challenge, I would have denied myself some truly wonderful experiences. Last week, trying to figure out how to fill out the accompaniment that was being played on the piano, I started to wonder if I wasn't making a fool out of myself. And, if you have any doubts about yourself, there's never a shortage of people who will assure you that you can't do something. Funny thing is though, I seemed to be the only one noticing that I was struggling. They were all too focused on making sure that they got their parts right to pay any attention to me. Now that I have some distance from it, I realize that it will take very little for me to fit in with the piano and add something and I'm enthusiastic about practice this Wednesday. Too often, our biggest critic is ourselves. Jerry |
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09 Apr 05 - 10:41 PM (#1456733) Subject: RE: Stretching Yourself From: jimmyt The first time I ever performed in public I was 13 years old and played in a pit orchestra of a Minstral show I believe there weew 22 songs, one rehearsal and I had never even heard about 15 of them before. Believe me I was stretched. I continue to stretch myself musically every opportunity I have and I am generally pleased with the results. I am certainly not one of the world's great musicians but I give it every thing I have ! |
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09 Apr 05 - 10:47 PM (#1456738) Subject: RE: Stretching Yourself From: jimmyt By the way, Jerry, I have been hired to play pennywhistle to accompany a guitar for a wedding the day before you arrive! Talk about a stretch! It is one thing to play a whistle in a noisy pub but another altogether to play for a wedding. I probably will not be able to use my opening line, " I hope you are all dringing because we are not that good!" |
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10 Apr 05 - 07:23 AM (#1456922) Subject: RE: Stretching Yourself From: Jerry Rasmussen Depends on the wedding, jimmy.. Jerry |
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11 Apr 05 - 05:28 PM (#1458349) Subject: RE: Stretching Yourself From: PoppaGator refresh The only reason this thread almost died is that it was begun on a Saturday morning. Many of us avoid logging on between Friday afternoon and Monday morning because we spend more than enough hours in front of a computer screen during the work week. As king of the Thread Starters, Jerry should certainly be aware of this! (I might well have missed this discussion completely were it not for a thoughtful notification via PM.) Now that all of us have access to this discussion, including the Silent Majority of at-work malingerers, I'm sure we'll have many interesting views to share. |
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11 Apr 05 - 10:43 PM (#1458608) Subject: RE: Stretching Yourself From: Jerry Rasmussen Yeah, Poppa... I starts 'em when I get the idea. I must admit, stretching yourself applies to all kinds of learning and growing... not just music. I'm feeling stretched a little thin these days, preparing for the Messenger's Anniversary and learning new songs with two choruses, and trying new stuff on guitar. Feels good, though. And tomorrow, I do a 45 minute program at a nursing home. But, that's Borrring... I already know what I'm doing... hope someone else will talk about stepping out of their comfort zone. Jerry |
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11 Apr 05 - 11:09 PM (#1458636) Subject: RE: Stretching Yourself From: khandu I try to make it a routine to "stretch" myself musically. Sometimes it is just playing a piece that I have known for years but trying to do it in a different timing, or perhaps adding some different notes here & there. Also, trying different styles of music outside my usual helps. I learned a bit of classical doing this & have incorporated it into my usual styles. Right now, I am writing a "blues" tune, doing a melodic run on the bass strings while doing another melody on the high. I hope to eventually get it "smooth". Also, I am hoping to blend this "blues" bit with a few classical strokes. Stretching is like walking. The only way to progress is by taking another step. ken |
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11 Apr 05 - 11:11 PM (#1458637) Subject: RE: Stretching Yourself From: khandu ...And, if you fall down, get up & keep pressing on! k |
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12 Apr 05 - 02:49 AM (#1458715) Subject: RE: Stretching Yourself From: alanabit I am currently gradually coping with a new song in open D minor tuning. I plan to cheat on the album and dub the accompaniment. The next challenge will be to sing and play it at the same time. That might take a while! |
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12 Apr 05 - 08:19 AM (#1458931) Subject: RE: Stretching Yourself From: The Fooles Troupe A piece that can be played in both 3/4 & 4/4 time is a great stretch. And then you try 6/8... |
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12 Apr 05 - 11:35 AM (#1459089) Subject: RE: Stretching Yourself From: GUEST,leeneia The original question was "Do you sing differently when you sing a lead in a choir?" I suppose "a lead" is a person singing alone or singing a main part while others do inconspicuous backup. If so, a lead does sing differently - louder, more forcefully, perhaps with improvisation and special effects. A person in the choir, on the other hand, is supposed to blend. Blending is hard to define, but when it's not done, the choir sounds ragged and amateurish. A choir consisting of people who are all singing like leaders is awful to listen to. My explanation of blending is this: Let your voices cuddle. |
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12 Apr 05 - 12:25 PM (#1459144) Subject: RE: Stretching Yourself From: Peter T. One of the most disconcerting things about having Rick Fielding as a teacher was you would finally get something and he would say, "Great, now --"; or "That's great, but now it's old news!! Let's try this!" He would never let you sit back and bathe in the glory of having got something done right. I am still not sure if a smidgen of glory bathing is not a good idea, but it was certainly bracing. For someone like me who was incredibly timid about doing anything new, it was really challenging. Actually, the best thing I learned from him was not to give a shit if you pick up a new instrument and just play it, even if it sounds like crap. I was a total purist -- unless I am going to sound like Chopin the first time I sit down at the piano, forget it! -- but you never knew when you came in for a lesson what the hell you might end up playing. I don't think I have ever felt weirder in my life than finding myself playing a dulcimer, or a Cajun accordion, or a tin whistle, or a washboard -- so much for the total purist! Now there is absolutely nothing I won't give a try on, and at least a few chords or whatever. My house is littered with all kinds of weird musical stuff, mbiras, whistles, tambourines, harmonicas, none of which I can play at all well, but what the hell!! (thanks, Rick for the mess!) yours, Peter T. |
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12 Apr 05 - 12:40 PM (#1459158) Subject: RE: Stretching Yourself From: Jerry Rasmussen Thanks, all... a lot to respond to. Thanks, Leeneia for your comments on singing lead with a choir or chorus. I think the main thing that you touched on is freedom. When you are singing in a choir or chorus, you have to listen as much as you sing. My Male Chorus Director puts it simply. If you can't hear the person next to you singing, you're probably singing too loud. While that isn't necessarily a sure-fire rule, it's a good awareness to cultivate. As it turns out, the man I stand next to is in his 80's and has a very soft voice. He's also about five feet tall, and can no longer stand erect, and I am six feet one. I can't even tell IF he is singing, unless I lean over. When you're singing lead, you may have the freedom to improvise or decorate the melody and subtly change phrasing .. as long as you still are "leading" the song so the rest of the singers know when to come in. In more formal, written music, that freedom may be sacrificed so that more intricate arrangements and harmonies can occur. Singing lead with a black gospel chorus is much like singing lead on sea chanties or work songs. There is enough room to express your emotions by playing with the phrasing and melody. In black gospel, many songs allow space for improvisation, by having the lead sing "over" a repeated phrase, improvising lines as the spirit moves the singer. Improvising was a major stretch for me for awhile, as I was used to just singing the words that were written down. It's a wonderful experience, though.. I wanted to copy about stretching yourself by picking up instruments you have no familiarty with, as commented on by Peter T. That' ll wait though (I agree 100% with Rick's approach). I'd rather read what others have to say.. Jerry |
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12 Apr 05 - 12:54 PM (#1459172) Subject: RE: Stretching Yourself From: khandu Open D minor is a great place, Alan! There is lots of room for creativity there. Is it D-A-D-F-A-D or some other configuration? Alternate tunings are a great way to "stretch" one's abilities. But, from what I gather, it's all been a stretch for you for a year now, with the finger injury. You have my admiration for not having given up, but instead have kept working on it! Ken |
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12 Apr 05 - 01:35 PM (#1459218) Subject: RE: Stretching Yourself From: Amos Hear, hear, Peter T. I will play anything with a string or a place to blow on (except humans and possums) and have always gotten the greatest delight from being able to eke a few notes out of a strange instrument and make them sound vaguely melodic. Can't explain why. On my own instrument, the guitar mean, I require much better performance!! :D A |
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12 Apr 05 - 01:35 PM (#1459219) Subject: RE: Stretching Yourself From: McGrath of Harlow "Blending is hard to define, but when it's not done, the choir sounds ragged and amateurish." I know what you mean, and don't disagree. Except there's Sacred Harp singing where blending in isn't what it's really about. |
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12 Apr 05 - 07:33 PM (#1459515) Subject: RE: Stretching Yourself From: The Fooles Troupe Sounds like you need a 'possum ocarina' Amos! |
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12 Apr 05 - 09:08 PM (#1459571) Subject: RE: Stretching Yourself From: Ebbie Hmmmm. Well, I've been stretching a good bit this whole last year. For whatever reason, although I have always loved singing, it has always agitated me no end when someone mentions my singing, whether good or bad. (Did growing up in a critical family and with four brothers and four sisters have anything to do with it? *G*) I need people to just kind of glide by the moment. I host a weekly songcircle and the rules are simple: when it's your turn in the circle, either sing or play something OR request a song or tune from someone else OR say you'll do it the next time 'round. For me it was much easier to just request a song from someone else- and with good reason. There are some very good musicians in the group. But about a year ago I realized that if I didn't start singing in the group I would eventually find it too late. I'm 69 years old. About that time I started singing with a neighbor (one who also comes to the songcircle) and we've been learning new songs and harmonies. Many of the songs are those I grew up with and many are new to both of us. I have always had a good memory for lyrics and tunes and luckily we, by and large (What does that mean??), like the same kinds of songs. Most of the songs we do are gospel, songs like On a High, High Mountain, What Will I Leave Behind, Gone Home, Light at the River- you get the idea. We also do a lot of Ginny Hawker and Carter Family and Reno and Smiley and others. We now have close to 40 songs that we do and have worked out harmonies for. It is a lot of fun. I love it. And we sing in EVERY songcircle. There is still one problem remaining- when my song partner isn't there- I can't sing. |
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12 Apr 05 - 10:00 PM (#1459588) Subject: RE: Stretching Yourself From: Jerry Rasmussen Good for you, Ebbie: I see where your next stretching is going to go.. :-) The thing to remember is that just about everyone was terrified of singing in front of other people. I've loved singing all of my life, but was well into my 20's before I even felt confident enough to try singing (rather off-handedly) in front of my family. The first time I sang in public, I was in my late twenties, and I was terrified. Most people are overly judgmental about their own singing. Part of that may be because it is so difficult to sit across the room from ourselves and listen to us sing. The first time I taped myself singing I vowed I would never sing in front of anyone again. It didn't help that I recorded myself on a cheap little recorder with a built in microphone. Singing in front of people is a lifetime stretching excercise, I think. It's something you can become more comfortable about, but it is almost impossible to become completely un-selfconscious about it. And probably just as well. Over the years, I've become more comfortable singing with more vibrato in my voice (which I always associated with over-stuffed Methodist women singing in a church choir.) It's an on-going project to truly sing as you feel it in your heart without undue concern about what others think. Just don't leave any lose tomatoes lying around... :-) Sixty nine, eh? Man, that used to seem so old! I'll be 70 in June, so you're probably younger than I am. The older you get, the more chances you can take, because people will just think that you're being excentric and colorful.. :-) Go for it! Jerry |
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12 Apr 05 - 11:11 PM (#1459625) Subject: RE: Stretching Yourself From: Peter T. I suppose one of the obstacles to stretching yourself is that it feels much better to make incremental improvements to things you already do quite well than to do new things poorly. yours, Peter T. |
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12 Apr 05 - 11:46 PM (#1459635) Subject: RE: Stretching Yourself From: GUEST,.gargoyle Upcoming (hopeful) Operation to the right hand (again.)
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13 Apr 05 - 01:45 AM (#1459674) Subject: RE: Stretching Yourself From: CarolC Pretty much everything about playing the accordion involves stretching myself. It's such a versatile, multi-layered, and nuanced instrument. I've been playing for almost five years and I have learned sooooo much in that time, and yet I feel that I've barely scratched the surface of the instrument's potential (and maybe even my own). I think I could study the accordion for many lifetimes and never truely master all of its complexities. |