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13 Apr 05 - 03:51 PM (#1460297) Subject: BS: European Violence From: Rapparee Given the sometimes-nasty things said about violence in the US, I thought that it might be nice to post something about violence in Europe for a change. ROME (AP) -- Premier Silvio Berlusconi said Wednesday that "drastic measures" may be needed to stem the rise of violence at Italian soccer stadiums. Tuesday's Champions League second-leg quarterfinal between Inter Milan and AC Milan was cut short late in the second half after Inter fans threw flares onto the field at San Siro stadium, hitting Milan goalkeeper Dida.... The scene followed one of the worst violence-marred weekends in Italian soccer this season, when scores of fans were arrested and 89 police officers injured in fighting at stadiums across the country.... While authorities say they plan to focus on prevention, they "do not rule out, if necessary, resorting to more drastic measures." AC Milan was leading 1-0 in the second leg and 3-0 on aggregate when the trouble started Tuesday night. Inter fans threw flares and bottles onto the pitch after a goal by Esteban Cambiasso was disallowed for a foul in the 71st minute. Dida was hit on the right shoulder by a flare in the 73rd minute and treated at midfield. Play was stopped and the teams left the field. They returned 10 minutes later and the match resumed. But fans started throwing flares again and referee Markus Merk stopped the match for good less than a minute later.... The trouble in Milan raised fears of further violence in Turin on Wednesday at the Champions League quarterfinal between Juventus and Liverpool. Some Italian fans are calling for retaliation for the 1985 Heysel stadium tragedy when 39 people, mostly Juventus fans, were crushed to death in riots blamed largely on Liverpool supporters at the European Cup final in Brussels. A Liverpool supporter was attacked Tuesday night by bat-wielding Juventus fans in a Turin bar. Six Italians men were arrested Wednesday in the attack. Over 1,000 police officers have been deployed for Wednesday's match. Flares? Lit flares? Folks, that certainly qualifies as a deadly weapon and I would much rather take a bullet than be burned. Yes, the US has problems with violence. So does the UK and Europe and everyone else. Now let's stop screaming at each other. |
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13 Apr 05 - 05:19 PM (#1460380) Subject: RE: BS: European Violence From: Doug Chadwick I think this has more to do with football than Europe. El Salvador and Honduras actually resorted to 4 days of armed hostilities in the "Soccer War" of 1969. Doug C |
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13 Apr 05 - 05:21 PM (#1460381) Subject: RE: BS: European Violence From: Clinton Hammond Oh how I wish there was a global body with the strenght to enforce, and the stones to BAN soccer... |
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13 Apr 05 - 05:29 PM (#1460391) Subject: RE: BS: European Violence From: Ebbie It sounds to me like a really fun time. |
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13 Apr 05 - 09:24 PM (#1460563) Subject: RE: BS: European Violence From: McGrath of Harlow I gather in Poland where there's quite a history of football violence (including people getting killed at times), hostilities were suspended after the Pope died, with the fans and players from rival clubs turning all friendly towards each other - Letter from Poland, Polonia Radio In fact, according to our Polish priest, things may have gone too far that way - apparently there was a spate of own gaols in the matches the day after JP's funeral. |
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13 Apr 05 - 10:12 PM (#1460597) Subject: RE: BS: European Violence From: John O'L What needs to be done is that the rules of soccer need to be changed to make it a contact sport. That's the problem. After ninety minutes of nail-biting platonic action resulting in a nil-all draw, something has to give. |
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13 Apr 05 - 11:18 PM (#1460636) Subject: RE: BS: European Violence From: robomatic There was a book written by an American who spent time with an English fan club which orchestrated violence at football (soccer) games. It was titled: Among The Thugs |
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14 Apr 05 - 04:06 AM (#1460774) Subject: RE: BS: European Violence From: Ebbie I say, bring back the gladiators. Then everyone can go home calm and fulfilled. |
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14 Apr 05 - 04:10 AM (#1460778) Subject: RE: BS: European Violence From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah2 All very true and pertinent but scarcely comparable to invading Iraq and arguing for every citizen's right to a handgun. |
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14 Apr 05 - 05:12 AM (#1460809) Subject: RE: BS: European Violence From: robomatic It's comparable in that we export our violence and do useful things with it like topple dictators. In America we try to restrict our attendance violence to Nascar rallies and rock concerts. If we were violent at football games we'd be photographed in glorious color with enough detail to pick up the stubble on our faces and if we were violent at baseball games we might upset the next big historical documentary. |
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14 Apr 05 - 09:08 AM (#1460977) Subject: RE: BS: European Violence From: Rapparee I'd still rather be shot than set afire because someone threw a burning flare at me. I've had a very minor encounter with a burning flare and the wound took literally months to heal -- and it was VERY painful. |
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14 Apr 05 - 10:17 AM (#1461038) Subject: RE: BS: European Violence From: Stu It isn't pretty but it doesn't really compare to Columbine though does it? Every country has it's share of thugs, louts and miscreants but the US lets them buy guns and says "It's your birthright!", and then wonders why so many people are killed with them. Next thing you know, one of them will end up running the country . . . doh! |
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14 Apr 05 - 11:26 AM (#1461101) Subject: RE: BS: European Violence From: GUEST It's when they think they have the right to run other people's countries as well that the crap begins. |
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14 Apr 05 - 12:02 PM (#1461132) Subject: RE: BS: European Violence From: Ebbie Interesting how defensive we all feel when it comes to our own country. And yet I'll bet that not one of us has ever rioted in the stands or on the streets or mugged anyone or robbed a bank with or without a gun. |
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14 Apr 05 - 02:01 PM (#1461268) Subject: RE: BS: European Violence From: McGrath of Harlow John O'Lennaine's suggestion there about it being tied to Football (soccer) being (officially) non-contact, fits in with the fact that field games which are more physical on the pitch don't seem to be accompanied by crowd violence: Rugby, American Football, Gaelic Football and Hurling, Australian Rules Football, Ice Hockey... On the other hand there isn't much crowd violence around Tennis matches either, and the same goes for Baseball and Cricket. So perhaps it's more complicated than that. |
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14 Apr 05 - 02:17 PM (#1461283) Subject: RE: BS: European Violence From: GUEST I think in UK anyway football is a very accessible sport, most boys play it at school and the love of it is early rooted. It is also an inclusive sport, in a way that tennis and cricket have not always been. Schools didn't routinely have cricket and tennis lessons. So some may have felt excluded from that world and all that surrounds it. As such football can attract elements from all walks of life, and people of varying degrees of tolerance. |
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14 Apr 05 - 04:20 PM (#1461397) Subject: RE: BS: European Violence From: robomatic I just fear for the day Hogwarts has a nasty bout of interspell violence after a bad call at Quidditch! |
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14 Apr 05 - 04:36 PM (#1461409) Subject: RE: BS: European Violence From: Rapparee Causing a broom to try to kill the rider or hexing the bludgers seems violent to me. |
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14 Apr 05 - 08:41 PM (#1461674) Subject: RE: BS: European Violence From: Bunnahabhain The Victorian solution to this worked well. Shove as many of the violent thugs as possible towards the army, where they would either learn to direct violence against the enemy, or end up at the wrong side of a firing squad in quick time. Of course, it relied on a supply of countries with weapons generations behind yours to invade, so couldn't be tried now.... |