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02 May 05 - 03:31 PM (#1476675) Subject: Lyr Add: FAIR PHOEBE AND HER DARK-EYED SAILOR From: GUEST,.gargoyle DARK-EYED SAILOR - http://www.mudcat.org/Detail.CFM?messages__Message_ID=866171 THE DARK-EYED CANALLER - http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=6141
Similar in many aspects to the above listed songs - but also very different.
Emrich, Duncan, American Folk Poetry - An Anthology Chapter "The Broken Token, or Love Returned in Disguise," Little Brown, 1974 p157.
"Fair Phoebe and Her Dark-Eyed Sailor" was recorded by Phillips Barry from the singing of Mrs. Guy R. Hathaway, Mattawankeag, Maine, 1932, as leared when a child from her aunt. Reported, with two sets of music, by Barry in Bulletin of the Folksong Society of the Northeast, Cambridge, Mass., 6 (1933) :8-10. Barry feels that "Fair Phoebe" cannot be earlier than the 1830's. Laws, N-35-
FAIR PHOEBE AND HER DARK-EYED SAILOR
I'll tell you of a come-lye young lady fair,
"Fail maid," said he, "why roam you alone?
Cries William, "Drive him from off you mind!
These words did Phoebe's fond heart inflame;
"It's seven long years since he left this land;
"His coal black eyes and his curly hair,
"A tarry sailor I'll ne'er disdain,
When William did this ring unfold,
In a cottage down by the riverside,
Sincerely, |
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02 May 05 - 04:42 PM (#1476735) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: FAIR PHOEBE AND HER DARK-EYED SAILOR From: nutty This broadside of the song in the Bodleian Library is dated much earlier than 1830 Click Here Printer: [s.n.] ([s.l.]) Date: between 1767 and 1808 Printer's Series: (39). Copies: Johnson Ballads 2483 Ballads: 1.Fair Phoebe and her dark-ey'd sailor ("'Tis of a comely young lady fair ...") To the tune of: Female smuggler Subject: Lovers reunited 2.Nothing at all; or Derry-down dale ("In Derry-down dale when I wanted a mate ...") |
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03 May 05 - 12:19 AM (#1476784) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: FAIR PHOEBE AND HER DARK-EYED SAILOR From: michaelr Sounds to me like someone took the trad "Dark-eyed Sailor" and gave it the soap opera treatment (as in Victorian sentimental hype). It's obvious that the name Phoebe is not native to the song at all, at all. Cheers, Michael |
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03 May 05 - 03:33 AM (#1476832) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: FAIR PHOEBE AND HER DARK-EYED SAILOR From: Liz the Squeak What's wrong with Phoebe (variously spelt Phoeby, Phebe, Pheobe) as the original name? I've been researching my family history for over 20 years, been through countless parish records and made copious notes. Parishes I've looked through range from inland rural to major shipping ports and London Docks. I've only ever found one Nancy (Poplar, London 1881 census) but have several Phoebes ranging back to 1760. If you want someone to blame for the 'soap opera treatment' then you probably have to blame John Ashton, the collector. He was born in 1834 and in the 1870's abandoned his former livelihood and took to researching the British Museum for songs. 'Dark Eyed strangler' is one of those songs and is in the book 'Real Sailor Songs'. Oddly enough, there are several Nancys (or Nanny in one) but there are also plenty of Dolls, Polls and Mollys; There's Marie, Phoebe and Sue or Sukey, Amelia, Jenny, Jeanie, Bet and Bessie. It isn't beyond the realms of possibility that Phoebe is correct. Besides, my daughter thinks it's her song... it has her name in it! (Little aside here re: names... Nancys always seem to come from Yarmouth (unless it's the same Nancy!), Sukey always seems to work for the Pressgang and Mollys (my mother in law's name) are the heartbreakers most likely to marry another!) LTS |
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03 May 05 - 05:43 AM (#1476868) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: FAIR PHOEBE AND HER DARK-EYED SAILOR From: GUEST "dark-eyed strangler"! Could we have the words for that one, please?! I have a CD of June Tabor somwhere - and still jump when, after a typically quiet not-to-say-morose number, she belts into an up-tempo version of "Dark Eyed Sailor". Regards |
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03 May 05 - 05:44 AM (#1476869) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: FAIR PHOEBE AND HER DARK-EYED SAILOR From: GUEST,Martin Ryan .. the above. |
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03 May 05 - 10:08 AM (#1476979) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: FAIR PHOEBE AND HER DARK-EYED SAILOR From: Liz the Squeak Sorry... post Hastings festival tryping error. Dark eyed Strangler - wasn't he the bass guitarist? There's a Seaman's hostel nearby that is called the Strangers Rest... I dyslexed that the first time I saw it, and it's forever been The Stranglers' Rest - fairly appropriate as it's not too far from the haunts of Jack the Ripper.... LTS |
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03 May 05 - 01:03 PM (#1477153) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Fair Phoebe and her Dark-Eyed Sailor From: Joe Offer The Traditional Ballad Index has quite an entry on this song: Dark-Eyed Sailor, The (Fair Phoebe and her Dark-Eyed Sailor) [Laws N35]DESCRIPTION: The singer courts a girl, but she remains true to William, her sailor, gone these seven years. William at last identifies himself and produces his half of their broken ring. The two are married and settle downAUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: before 1809 (broadside, Bodleian Johnson Ballads 2483) KEYWORDS: love courting brokentoken marriage FOUND IN: US(Ap,MA,MW,NE,SE) Canada(Mar,Newf) Britain(Scotland,England(Lond)) Ireland REFERENCES (18 citations): Laws N35, "The Dark-Eyed Sailor (Fair Phoebe and her Dark-Eyed Sailor)" Gardner/Chickering 57, "The Dark-Eyed Sailor" (1 text plus 1 excerpt and mention of 2 more, 1 tune) Doerflinger pp. 300-301, "The Dark-Eyed Sailor" (1 text, 1 tune) SHenry H232, p. 318, "The Dark-Eyed Sailor" (1 text, 1 tune) JHCox 93, "The Broken Ring" (1 text) Huntington-Whalemen, pp. 120-122, "The Dark-Eyed Sailor" (1 text, 1 tune) Ord, pp. 323-324, "The Dark-Eyed Sailor" (1 text, 1 tune) BrownII 95, "The Dark-Eyed Sailor" (1 text (with mention of a variant collection) plus 1 excerpt) MacSeegTrav 26, "The Dark-Eyed Sailor" (1 text, 1 tune) Creighton/Senior, pp. 144-146, "The Dark-Eyed Sailor" ( 2 texts, 1 tune) Creighton-NovaScotia 29, "The Dark-Eyed Sailor" (1 text, 1 tune) Greenleaf/Mansfield 36, "The Dark-Eyed Sailor" (1 text) Peacock, pp. 513-514, "The Dark-Eyed Sailor" (1 text, 1 tune) Karpeles-Newfoundland 55, "The Dark-Eyed Sailor" (1 text, 1 tune) Lehr/Best 27, "The Dark-eyed Sailor" (1 text, 1 tune) Darling-NAS, pp. 125-126, "The Dark Eyed Sailor" (1 text) Silber-FSWB, p. 147, "The Dark-Eyed Sailor" (1 text) DT 460, DARKEYED* DARKEYE2 Roud #265 RECORDINGS: Warde Ford, "Nightingales of Spring" (AFS 4198 A1, 1938; in AMMEM/Cowell) BROADSIDES: Bodleian, Johnson Ballads 2483, "Fair Phoebe and her Dark-ey'd Sailor," unknown [Printer's Series:(39)], 1767-1808; also Harding B 11(498), "Fair Phoebe and her Dark-Eyed Sailor," J. Catnach (London), 1813-1838; Harding B 11(499), Johnson Ballads 452, Firth c.18(141), Harding B 15(99a), Harding B 11(1120), Firth c.12(261), Harding B 11(1119), Harding B 11(3030), Harding B 16(84b), "Fair Phoebe and her Dark-Eyed Sailor"; Firth c.17(53), Harding B 11(2824), Firth b.27(475), "Fair Phoebe and her Dark-ey'd Sailor"; Harding B 16(326b), "Fair Phoebe and her Dark Eyed Sailor"; Firth b.25(142), Harding B 15(98b), "Fair Phoebe and her Dark Ey'd Sailor"; Harding B 11(3493), Johnson Ballads 1837, "Fair Phoebe, and the Dark-Eye'd Sailor"; Firth b.25(193), "Fair Phoebe and the Dark-Eyed sailor"; Harding B 15(99b), "Fair Phoeby and Her Dark Eyed Sailor"; Harding B 18(114), "Dark Ey'd Sailor" ("'Tis of a comely young lady, fair") LOCSinging, as102640, "Dark Ey'd Sailor," J. Andrews (New York), 1853-1859; also sb10077b, "Dark Ey'd Sailor" Murray, Mu23-y1:016, "The Dark-Eyed Sailor," R. M'Intosh (Calton), 19C; also Mu23-y1:102, "Fair Phoebe And Her Dark-Eyed Sailor," James Lindsay (Glasgow), 19C CROSS-REFERENCES: cf. "John (George) Riley (I)" [Laws N36] and references there cf. "Brave Wolfe" [Laws A1] and references there (tune) cf. "The Female Smuggler" (tune, per broadsides Bodleian Johnson Ballads 2483, Bodleian Harding B 11(498), Bodleian Harding B 11(499)) Notes: Ford sings this to the tune usually associated with "The Blacksmith," which -- so far as I know -- hasn't been otherwise collected outside Britain except as "Brave Wolfe." - PJS
Lines shared with The Banks of Sweet Primroses: Young girl's be true while your love's at sea, For a dark cloudy morning Brings forth a pleasant day." Go to the Ballad Search form The Ballad Index Copyright 2005 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. |
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03 May 05 - 02:31 PM (#1477205) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Fair Phoebe and her Dark-Eyed Sailor From: Liz the Squeak It seems to vary between 2 and 7, the book I mentioned earlier (Real Sailor Songs) has '2 long years since he left the land', the book professes to be the result of John Ashtons' researches in the British Museum. Either there is more than one broadside with different years, or someone made a mistake copying it down, or else it's a mistake with handwriting. If it was written numerically, it could be quite easy to mistake 7 for 2. LTS |
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03 May 05 - 04:20 PM (#1477308) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Fair Phoebe and her Dark-Eyed Sailor From: Malcolm Douglas All the broadside examples I've seen have two, not seven, years; Ashton did make occasional errors of transcription, but I don't see any reason to think that he made one in this case. I suspect that the years stretched to seven when the song moved into oral currency; "seven years" is a nice, round, traditional span and would come automatically to mind. The set Christie printed in 1881 (Traditional Ballad Airs, II, 100-101) was from tradition, with two years changed to seven and Phoebe's name dropped from the title, but otherwise hardly changed from the broadsides. Later broadsides sometimes dropped her name from the title while retaining it in the song (De Marsan of New York, for example, c.1860: see Bodleian, Harding B 18(114)) but on the whole it seems to have been oral currency that trimmed the song down and lost or sometimes changed the heroine's name. There's no particular evidence that the broadsides are elaborated versions of some unrecorded folk-song (though they certainly follow the standard formulae for such subjects); more likely, on the whole, that the traditional sets are reductions of the broadside. |
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03 May 05 - 09:30 PM (#1477536) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Fair Phoebe and her Dark-Eyed Sailor From: michaelr Thank you all for correcting my misconception. Cheers, Michael |
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03 May 05 - 10:00 PM (#1477545) Subject: Lyr Add: Fair Phoeby and her Dark Eyed Sailor From: Joe Offer After that post from Liz, I figured I'd better go to Ashton's Real Sailor Songs (1972 reprint of the 1891 book) and find out about that strangler. I have to say I was disappointed. Liz led me astray. And to think that I trusted her... But here's the version from Ashton: Fair Phoeby and Her Dark Eyed Sailor It's* of a comely young lady fair, Was walking out for to take the air; She met a sailor upon her way, And I paid attention to what they did say. Said William, Lady, why roam alone? The night is coming on, and the day near gone, And she said, while the tears from her eyes did fall, It's a dark eyed sailor that's proving my downfall. It's two long years since he left the land, I took a gold ring from off my hand, We broke the token—here's part with me, And the other rolling at the bottom of the sea. Said William drive him all from your mind, Another sailor as good you will find, Love turns aside, and soon cold do grow, Like a winter's morning, when lands are clothed in snow. These words did Phoeby's fond heart inflame, She said, On me you shall play no game, She drew a dagger, and then did cry, For my dark ey'd sailor, a maid I'll live and die. His coal black eye, and his curly hair, And pleasing tongue did my heart insnare, Genteel he was, but no rank like you, To advise a maiden to slight the jacket blue. But still, said Phoeby, I'll ne'er disdain A tarry Sailor, but treat the same, Then drink his health, here's a piece of Coin, But my dark ey'd sailor still claims this heart of mine. Then half the ring did young William show, See** seem'd distracted 'midst joy and woe Oh, welcome, William, I've lands and gold, For my dark ey'd Sailor, so manly, true and bold. Then in a village down by the Sea, They joined in Wedlock, and well agree; All maids be true when your love's away, A cloudy morning brings forth a fine day. (* ? - text says "Ir's") **sic - most probably "she" |
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04 May 05 - 03:37 AM (#1477619) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Fair Phoebe and her Dark-Eyed Sailor From: Liz the Squeak Joe - we have the same book! Big shit brown coloured thing? And I'm happy to lead you astray any time! Can't help thinking that I wouldn't want to marry someone that a) I professed to love but didn't recognise after only 2 years, and b) would play such a mean and nasty trick on someone obviously in some distress! I guess the Dark eyed Strangler will get written, as soon as I've learned the tune properly! LTS |
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14 Oct 05 - 03:21 PM (#1583217) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Fair Phoebe and her Dark-Eyed Sailor From: Le Scaramouche Who says only the Victorians were capable of hideous sentimental hype? Anyone read Pamela? |
