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07 May 05 - 11:56 AM (#1480049) Subject: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: Blackcatter Hello all - looking around I see there there hasn't been much of a dicussion on this song, yet it's one of the most popular. Below is the Traditional Ballad Index info, but it doesn't exactly help all that much. Does anyone have any more info? Rocky Road to Dublin, TheDESCRIPTION: An emigrant from Tuam recounts his comical misadventures on the way to England. He is flirted with in Mullingar, robbed in Dublin, put with the pigs on board ship, and ends in a brawl with "the boys of Liverpool."AUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: before 1867 (broadside, Bodleian Harding B 11(3304)) KEYWORDS: emigration humorous Ireland FOUND IN: Ireland US REFERENCES (5 citations): Hodgart, p. 207, "The Rocky Road to Dublin" (1 text) SHenry H44, pp. 178-179, "The Rocky Road to Dublin" (1 text, 1 tune) O'Conor, pp. 19-20, "Rocky Road to Dublin" (1 text) OLochlainn 51, "The Rocky Road to Dublin" (1 text, 1 tune) DT, RCKYDBLN* Roud #3012 RECORDINGS: American Quartet, "Along the Rocky Road to Dublin" (Victor 17900, 2926; rec. 1915) Sam Ash, "Along the Rocky Road to Dublin" (Little Wonder 254, 1915) Liam Clancy, "The Rocky Road to Dublin" (on IRLClancy01) Marguerite Farrell, "Along the Rocky Road to Dublin" (Columbia A1920, 1916; rec. 1915) Osey Helton, "Rocky Road to Dublin" (Broadway 5122A, c. 1931) Edward Herborn & James Wheeler, "Rocky Road to Dublin" (Columbia A2217, 1917) Bill McCune & his Orch. "Along the Rocky Road to Dublin" (Vocalion 04281, 1938) Premier Quartet, "Along the Rocky Road to Dublin" (CYL: Edison [BA] 2817, n.d.) Allen Sisson, "The Rocky Road to Dublin" [instrumental] (Edison 51559, 1925) BROADSIDES: Bodleian, Harding B 11(3304), "Rocky Road to Dublin," J. Harkness (Preston), 1840-1866; also Harding B 18(417), Johnson Ballads 2804 [same as LOCSinging as203070]; Harding B 11(454), "Rocky Road to Dublin" LOCSinging, as203070, "The Rocky Road to Dublin," H. De Marsan (New York), 1864-1878 [same as Bodleian Harding B 18(417)]; also as111860, "The Rocky Road to Dublin" NOTES: [Tune listed in broadsides LOCSinging as203070 and Bodleian Harding B 18(417) as "Irish Jig." True, but hardly helpful.... - RBW/BS] Broadside LOCSinging as203070: H. De Marsan dating per Studying Nineteenth-Century Popular Song by Paul Charosh in American Music, Winter 1997, Vol 15.4, Table 1, available at FindArticles site. - BS File: Hodg207 Go to the Ballad Search form The Ballad Index Copyright 2011 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. |
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07 May 05 - 12:23 PM (#1480059) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: Malcolm Douglas The words were written by D K Gavan, "The Galway Poet", for the English music hall performer Harry Clifton (1824-1872), who popularised the song. The tune may be older, but there doesn't seem to be any concrete reference to it prior to the song. See threads Harry Clifton Songwriter and Rocky Road to Dublin question. |
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07 May 05 - 11:59 PM (#1480350) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: Blackcatter Thanks Malcolm |
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18 Sep 08 - 11:11 AM (#2444046) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: pavane In case you are interested: The copy from America, listed above as Harding B 18(417), has two extra verses, not found in the other versions. They don't really add anything to the song, though. Rocky Road to Dublin |
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18 Sep 08 - 11:34 AM (#2444064) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: Paul Burke Are there any older references to the tune, as distinct from the song? Or any older settings of the tune with a different name? |
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18 Sep 08 - 01:57 PM (#2444189) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: Folkiedave I remember reading once that it was used as a test on nannies to see if they could sing and were worth employing though in fairness it doesn't sound much like a lullaby!! And sorry I don't have the reference. |
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18 Sep 08 - 09:06 PM (#2444592) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: Malcolm Douglas It may be that the tune as we know it today got its name from Gavan's song; or he may have taken his cue from a tune he knew. Whether it was set to an existing tune I haven't been able to discover, though naturally there are references to 'Rocky Road' tunes in various early C20 collections of Irish music. None of these, it appears, can confidently be said to pre-date the Gavan-Clifton song, except anecdotally. The Fiddler's Companion has some useful information (including a report of the anecdote that Dave mentioned) but it assumes uncritically that the song must have been later than the tune and doesn't credit either Gavan or Clifton, so should be used with caution. |
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19 Sep 08 - 10:06 AM (#2445003) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: MAG What is the correct pronunciation of "Tuam"? |
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19 Sep 08 - 10:17 AM (#2445010) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: MartinRyan In English, it's roughly chewm or, if you need two syllables, chew - um Regards |
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19 Sep 08 - 11:00 AM (#2445051) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: Folkiedave (including a report of the anecdote that Dave mentioned) And I thought my memory was going. I am so pleased!!! |
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19 Sep 08 - 11:50 AM (#2445109) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: MartinRyan Seems likely the "test" is really an index of the prevalence of Irish nannies in Britain at one stage? Regards |
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19 Sep 08 - 07:14 PM (#2445508) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: GUEST,MAG at work Oh I don't know; it's pretty bouncy -- great for lap bouncing. In fact, I think I'll add it to my next baby time at work. (It also involves the eventual emigration to England) |
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29 Sep 08 - 09:06 PM (#2453372) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: Malcolm Douglas I had quite forgotten that Jack Campin pointed out in another discussion that the tune is basically a 9/8 version of the old 3/2 hornpipe 'Cam Ye Ower Frae France', also known as 'The Keys of the Cellar'. |
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30 Sep 08 - 03:17 AM (#2453514) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: Les in Chorlton It's hard to believe that such a strong 9/8 jig wasn't from the Irish tradition. But then it's hard to believe that if it was, it would have been found by now. If that makes any sense. Lots of "jolly" Irish songs have the feel of music hall. Is this their probable origin? |
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23 Sep 11 - 01:14 PM (#3227825) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: GUEST,Foobear @Malcolm: "I had quite forgotten that Jack Campin pointed out in another discussion that the tune is basically a 9/8 version of the old 3/2 hornpipe 'Cam Ye Ower Frae France', also known as 'The Keys of the Cellar'." Cam Ye O'Er Frae France doesn't sound anything like the Rocky Road to Dublin, even in a different time. I've listened to numerous versions of it, as well as Rocky Road... The Wikipedia page for Rocky Road to Dublin repeats this claim, but the reference it provides for it shows no evidence that it is based on Cam Ye O'er Frae France. All the reliable references I've read said the source is unknown. |
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23 Sep 11 - 01:24 PM (#3227828) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: Paul Burke "Cam Ye O'Er Frae France doesn't sound anything like the Rocky Road to Dublin" You're thinking of a different cam Ye O'er, or a different Rocky Road, or perhaps both. |
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23 Sep 11 - 01:25 PM (#3227829) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: MGM·Lion Purely mnemonic FYI ~~ Rocky Road on fiddle is my ringtone. Who cares? I hear you say. Well whack-falal-de-da ~M~ |
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26 Sep 11 - 03:17 AM (#3229067) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: GUEST,Foobear >>You're thinking of a different cam Ye O'er, or a different Rocky Road, or perhaps both. Eh, I don't think so. I've pretty comprehensively gone through all the folktunes.org midis and recordings on Youtube. The Fiddler's Companion lists a few different songs that sound like it, but Cam Ye O'Er Frae France isn't one of them. (And then again, none of those sound very much like Rocky Road to Dublin, either.) |
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26 Sep 11 - 05:16 AM (#3229100) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: Les in Chorlton Jack Lintell's Jig close to Cam Ye? L in C# |
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26 Sep 11 - 07:50 PM (#3229657) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: Tattie Bogle "Cam Ye O'er Frae France" in 6/4 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL0A9bGQaZk "Rocky Road to Dublin" in 9/8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtEKUWRpUWg If you can't see/hear the resemblance in tune (albeit in different timing) something's wrong! |
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26 Sep 11 - 07:54 PM (#3229658) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: Tattie Bogle Ok, first one might be 3/2 and not 6/4! Discuss!! |
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27 Sep 11 - 07:52 AM (#3229837) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: GUEST >>If you can't see/hear the resemblance in tune (albeit in different timing) something's wrong! You're being sarcastic, right? They're nothing alike. =) Those links were purple - I've been to both those videos before. |
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27 Sep 11 - 01:26 PM (#3230017) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: PHJim I played it for years as a slip jig before discovering that it had words, although the instrumental slip jig version doesn't exactly match the vocal version. It has to be stretched a bit to get all the words in. |
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27 Sep 11 - 08:25 PM (#3230255) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: Tattie Bogle Not sarcastic at all - come out of your purple haze Guest! |
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27 Sep 11 - 09:30 PM (#3230276) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: Jack Campin I never suggested any resemblance between "Cam ye Ower Frae France" (aka "Wee Totum Fogg") and "Rocky Road". On the other hand I *do* think there is a non-coincidental resemblance between "Rocky Road" and "Ay Waukin O", which is a different Scottish song also dating back to around 1700. |
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28 Sep 11 - 03:08 AM (#3230386) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: Les in Chorlton Jack Lintell's Jig close to Cam Ye? L in C# |
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28 Sep 11 - 04:36 AM (#3230409) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: GUEST,Allan Conn "You're being sarcastic, right? They're nothing alike. =)" They aren't the same right enough but they certainly sound pretty similar. |
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28 Sep 11 - 04:37 AM (#3230410) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: Les in Chorlton Nurse, nurse .............. |
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29 Sep 11 - 12:08 PM (#3231145) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: Tattie Bogle That should be doctor, doctor! |
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24 Feb 13 - 12:58 PM (#3483278) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: Phil Edwards Jack Lintell's Jig close to Cam Ye? Just noticed this myself, eighteen months later - to my ear Cam Ye seems very close indeed to the A part of Jack Lintell's. Can't see the connection with Rocky Road though. |
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24 Feb 13 - 06:48 PM (#3483384) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: Phil Edwards According to this page Cam Ye O'er Frae France? and Jack Lintel's are both versions of a 3/2 hornpipe called Cellar Door Key. You pays your money... |
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24 Feb 13 - 09:16 PM (#3483414) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: Lighter The tune appears in "The Citizen; or, Dublin Monthly Magazine" for April, 1841. According to the anonymous writer (Conceivably Edward Bunting?): "'The Rocky Road' is, we believe, rather a 'Modern Irish Dance.' We have been told that the name is taken from a road so called in the neighbourhood of Clonmel. Be that as it may, however, it is the air which is sung by the nurses for their children in a great portion of the southern parts of Munster, and they frequently put forward, as one of the advantages to be attained by hiring them, that 'They can sing and dance the baby to the "Rocky Road." '" http://books.google.com/books?id=9LgRAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA264-IA2&dq="Rocky+Road+to+Dublin" |
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25 Feb 13 - 03:06 PM (#3483621) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: Steve Gardham On the original sheet music 1860s (before 1867) only the words are credited to Gavan, The Galway Poet. The tune is given as arranged by M. Hobson as on many of Clifton's pieces, and is not attributed to anyone. Clifton did take some of his tunes from existing sources, some dance tunes even. We don't know when Gavan wrote the words. It could be before 1841. Gavan is credited with the words of at least one other Clifton song. If he was known as The Galway Poet, there is a pretty good chance his works appear in local literature and dating could be improved. |
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25 Feb 13 - 04:47 PM (#3483652) Subject: RE: Origins: Rocky Road to Dublin From: Lighter > they frequently put forward, as one of the advantages to be attained by hiring them, that 'They can sing and dance the baby to the "Rocky Road." That sounds as though the tune was a novelty at the time, at least in Munster. The writer certainly thought it was "modern." |
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