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15 May 05 - 08:14 AM (#1485293) Subject: Tech:Tricks to Playing Along with others From: Peter T. Having recently attended a song circle, it occurred to me that learning how to pick up what someone else is playing and being able to follow it reasonably quickly is a basic art for which there are some skills, some of which are learned over time, but for which there may be some useful tricks that might be suggested by the experts here. A few that come to mind: 1) Get used to telling people what key you are going to be in. Maybe this will rub off on others and save time! 2) The basic idea is to figure out the key the other person is playing in, learn to follow the chord shapes that other people are using (here i am thinking of the guitar), of which the big one is the chord used to start the song which, unless the sound is minorish, is likely to be the I chord, or the tonic. 3) The chances are pretty good that in folk songs you will get the I, IV, and V chords of the key. If there is a minor chord it will likely be the VI chord (Am in C, and so on). 4) The G chord and the C chord are usually easy to recognize, though it can be hard to distinguish between the C chord and the F. If the person is using a bar chord on the first fret, it is a pretty good bet it is a F. 5) Many people use capos, and play the shapes of different keys. You need to be able to count up the frets and figure out again what the first chord of the tune is. 6) It takes a while, but you should learn how to hear when the song is heading for the dominant (V) or the final tonic (I), this gives you a clue as to what to expect from the fingering ahead. 7) Three other patterns of sound to learn are: (I, I-7, IV), the 12 bar blues, and the jazz standard, II-VI-II-V-I); 8) Play quietly until you get it right!!!!! Other tricks of the trade? yours, Peter T. |
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15 May 05 - 08:16 AM (#1485296) Subject: RE: Tech:Tricks to Playing Along with others From: Peter T. Sorry, III-VI-II-V-I. 9) Nothing else looks like a B7 -- that clump of fingers along the 2nd fret. yours, Peter T. |
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15 May 05 - 08:51 AM (#1485306) Subject: RE: Tech:Tricks to Playing Along with others From: Ron Davies Try to get your ear as close to the leader of the song or tune as possible, so you can be sure you are exactly with his or her rhythm--particularly essential if (as sometimes unfortunately happens ) not all the instruments in the group are exactly together in the rhythm. 3rds and 6ths often work if the melody is in a major key, 4ths and 5ths if it's modal. Number 8 of your list is by far the most important--don't play at all until you're absolutely sure you know how the tune goes--and if you by some chance still guess wrong, be willing to change immediately. There are some accompanying instruments for which a mistake can sound like a little flourish or a leading tone----if you change to the right note at the speed of light. |
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15 May 05 - 09:00 AM (#1485310) Subject: RE: Tech:Tricks to Playing Along with others From: kendall I tend to just listen if I don't know the song or the tune. |
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15 May 05 - 10:51 AM (#1485356) Subject: RE: Tech:Tricks to Playing Along with others From: GUEST Watch the fingers of another player who knows the song. Change chords when s/he changes. This might be a little hard to suss out if the other player uses a capo and you don't. |
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15 May 05 - 11:01 AM (#1485359) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: Sorcha I'm with Kendall.....if you don't know it, sit it out. |
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15 May 05 - 12:27 PM (#1485414) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: MBSLynne I've only recently started playing in sessions on my recorder and I'm amazed at how quickly I'm aquiring the knack of picking up a tune I've never even heard before. If I hear it through once I can often, though not always, join in second time thorugh. I don't know much about all the technical bits about music, so most of the 'tricks' you spoke of don't actually help me at all. I do find though, that the more I do it, the more easily my fingers go into the right places without my conscious mind actually having anything to do with it! So no, I don't sit it out if I don't know the tune...I learn much more tunes by trying to join in. Love Lynne |
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15 May 05 - 12:33 PM (#1485422) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: GUEST Would it help to practise playing along with recordings, so no one gets upset by beginner's bum notes? |
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15 May 05 - 12:38 PM (#1485426) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: Leadfingers When I was developing my 'ear' to play Jazz I did a lot of practice to recordings - Helps develop the idea of playing for a reasonable length of time and developing embouchure (and hardening finger ends) as well as helping to get tune structures established . |
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15 May 05 - 12:41 PM (#1485427) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: Peace If you can read the lead, life is good. It's nice to know the song, and a good idea to ask the lead performer if s/he's adapted/arranged the usual melody or chord changes. Some people arrange songs so that they retain the 'flovour' of the original yet become a new song in the process. For example, if a song goes G,G,G,G,C,C,C,C and the lead has changed the chording to G,G,G,G,Am7,Am6,Am,C, ya might want to sit out the first stanza and come in on the second instead. And then there's what Kendall said. No one has to play on ever song. BM |
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15 May 05 - 12:42 PM (#1485428) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: breezy If its 'tunes' , go for it.!! if its songs , watch out in case the singer is put off and tells you so If you're a bodran player , then there's a good programme on the T V tonight. Sessions are a free for all. Do support your local folk club where you should hear songs sung and tunes played properly too. if you want to listen, then go to a folk club. |
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15 May 05 - 12:48 PM (#1485432) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: Don Firth When I was first starting out, I learned a lot by trying to play along with better guitarists. But I was wise enough to not actually play at first, but simply followed the chord changes with my left hand. Then, when I got the hang of it and started to play, I played softly until I was sure I knew what I was doing. But there is also an art to knowing when to just sit and listen. Don Firth |
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15 May 05 - 07:13 PM (#1485671) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: Peter T. Good thoughts. A lurking non-member friend of mine (hi, greg!) sent me an e-mail with these additions -- 1) Sit in front of a mirror and go through the changes of the chords so you can see what they look like from the outside. He notes that we all are used to seeing our chord hands from the "inside- out" and seldom from watching what they look like from opposite. Standard folk music for guitar is likely to be in C, G, D, A, or E. If you can get the hand patterns of these, you are well ahead of the game. 2) Get the sheet music or tab/chords of songs you know and like from recordings, and then listen to them so you can develop the knack of hearing the rhythm of chord changes in songs (e.g. how to tell a IV from a V, minors, etc.). 3) There are now CDs (banjo ones particularly) that just play so that you can play along and learn the changes. 4) Certain chords are dead-giveaways -- e.g. the B7 mentioned earlier -- the chances of it being in anything other that E are slim. I thought these were all pretty good. I would certainly echo the earlier remark about being very careful not to disrupt a singer, or anyone else doing a solo -- that is a good way to become really unpopular. yours, Peter T. |
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15 May 05 - 08:03 PM (#1485699) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: Pat Cooksey I have just returned from a massive festival here in Germany in Rothenburg on the Tauber. Many thousands of people filled the town, but the reason I was there was to meet Jim McClean and an old sparring partner Nigel Denver, Jim, Gentleman and great songwriter that he is enjoyed the week-end immensly, especially when I sang new songs Nigel didn't know, when Nigel would put the guitar down and just listen. Those who know the English and Scottish folk scene from it's early days will remember Nigel as a great folk entertainer, very few remember the Troubador in London, where Jim and Nigel, together with Martin Carthy gave a start to Bob Dylan, Paul Simon, and many others. Photos from these days can still be found on Google, sorry to ramble on so, my point is as we found over the last two days, if you don't know it, don't try and play it, if you have an idea, play first as a backgroung, and then join in, we had a ball. |
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15 May 05 - 08:51 PM (#1485720) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: GUEST SORRY - misread the Subject:
Thought it was "Playing ALONE with others."
Sincerely,
But given personalities "name dropped" within the thread, SIMON, THOWNSHEND, nigel Dalyn....it was probably correctly labeled.
Follow LeadFingers thread-advice and you will never be looked askance. Bend-them, Twist-them, Drop-them, Hold-them ....in Jazz honey everything gonna come around. |
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15 May 05 - 09:11 PM (#1485732) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: Big Mick Pat Cooksey, you are another of the Mudcat treasures. While some here, generally folks of large mouths and small resumes, might make silly comments, those of us who work at this stuff really appreciate comments from a seasoned pro like yourself. I hope we can meet one day and share a song or two. All the best, Mick |
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15 May 05 - 09:30 PM (#1485743) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: PatrickCostello Part of what I do for a day job nowadays revolves around helping people play with other musicians. It's a pretty cool gig and I love what I do. Anyway, the major point I try to get across to people is that it's perfectly okay to make a mistake. Never be afraid to try. Yeah, you'll meet some real dipsticks out there sometimes who will give you a hard time - but the thing to keep in mind is that real honest-to-goodness "folk musicians" will be aware of what you are going through at the beginners phase. The people who snarl, laugh or pontificate are just bozos who have managed to memorize a handful of songs. Ignore them and find people who will celebrate the your strong points and help you work on your weak points. Keep in mind that our tradition as folk musicians is not about playing perfectly, preserving traditions or fitting in with a peer group. The heritage of this music is all about fearless exploration, building communities and making the most out of whatever you've got. When it comes to knowing what chord to play the first step is sitting next to somebody who will holler out the chords for you. The usual advice of watching the guitar players hands or memorizing the chord progression beforehand won't help anybody much. Using visual cues or relying on memory leaves you fighting against the flow of the rhythm and as a result you'll always wind up out of time with the group. The way to get a feel for chord progressions is to get under the hood and become familiar with how and why they work. Since I'm here . . . So what "makes" a chord progression? It's built on scales. A scale is just a sequence of notes. The formal term is something more along the lines of "the key of E is a major mode with a root of E," but we won't be getting into modes for a while so thinking of it as a sequence of notes makes things easier for now. In Western music we are only working with twelve notes. The twelve notes are named after the letters A through G with a note or half-step between each pair of letters except between B and C and E and F: A | B C | D | E F | G | Your half step is either a sharp (#) or a flat (b.) The half step between A and B can be called either A# or Bb. A# means that the A note is raised one half step higher. Bb is the B note lowered one half step. A# and Bb are the same note and the other half steps follow the same pattern. So with all twelve notes laid out you have the chromatic scale: A A#/Bb B C C#/Db D D#/Eb E F F#/Gb G G#/Ab Once you understand the idea of half steps you can just write out your chromatic scale like this to save space and make it a tad clearer. The " | " symbol will be used to represent a half step. A | B C | D | E F | G | To figure out the notes of the C scale we need to lay out the string of notes starting with our root note. In this case the root note is C so we start with the C note. Because we are only working with the letters A through G the notes after the G note is going to be A. It might help to think of the notes as being laid out in a loop or circle. C | D | E F | G | A | B C Now if you notice we started on C and ended on C. That second C is called the octave. It is the same note as the root but higher in pitch. What we have here now is a chromatic scale starting on C and ending on C. Root, whole step, whole step, half step, whole step, whole step, whole step, half step. C is the root. 1. a whole step from C is D. 2. a whole step from D is E. 3. a half step from E is F 4. a whole step from F is G 5. a whole step from G is A 6. a whole step from A is B 7. a half step from B is C So your C scale is C D E F G A B C Now, try writing out some scales on your own. Once you have a scale laid out- and it might be a good idea to sit down and work out A couple of scales here for keys you will be using a lot on the banjo like A,D and G andd keeping them handy to use in the next step- go ahead and number each note: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 C D E F G A B C The notes numbered 1, 4 and 5 (C, F and G) will be your major chords for the key of C. Go back and look at all the songs in the key of G that know (that is, if you are already playing a couple of songs.) You will notice that almost all of them use some combination of G, C and D. Some songs will only have two of the chords but most of the time you will see all three. The note numbered 6 is going to be your relative minor. In this case Am. Every root chord has a relative minor chord. We'll go into this in more detail later on, but every key has a unique number of sharps and flats. The key of C has no sharps or flats and the key of G has one sharp (F#.) The same rule applies to minor keys. Any minor key that has the same number of sharps and flats as a major key is the relative minor of that major key. The key of Am has no sharps or flats. Therefore it is the relative minor of C. It is good to know your relative minor chords (the 6 chord in the number system) because you can swap them around in some situations. If you are playing a song and cannot remember how to make an Am chord you can just play a C chord. It is different but it is close enough that you may get away with it. The note numbered 2 is going to be both a minor chord and a major chord. In this case Am and A. Number 3 is where it gets kind of neat because in folk music this is often referred to as an "off chord." In the key of C your off chord is E (remember in the introduction when I mentioned Freight Train?.) Your 6 chord can be played as a major chord as well. But it is kind of funky. You will really only use the major 6 once in a great while. In some songs like "Little Maggie" you might run into what some players call a mountain seven. That is when you flat the 7 chord. That is why "Little Maggie" goes from G to F rather than G to F#. We talked about this in the last New Time banjo workshop. The slang term for numbering a scale like this is "The Nashville number System." It didn't come from Nashville (you don't really think the people who brought us gems like "Achy-Breaky Heart" were responsible for something like a musicial concept, did you?) but they got the credit for it. Don't as me why, it's as much of a mystery as why there isn't a half step between B and C. Now take a really simple song like Boil Them Cabbage Down Boil Them Cabbage Down (4/4 time): C F Went up on the mountain C G Just to give my horn a blow. C F Thought I heard my true love say, C G C Yonder comes my beau. CHORUS: Boil them cabbage down, down. Turn them hoecakes down, down. The only song that I can sing Is boil them cabbage down. Possum in a 'simmon tree, Raccoon on the ground. Raccoon says, you son-of-a-gun, Throw some 'simmons down. Someone stole my old coon dog, Wish they'd bring him back. He chased the big hogs through the fence And the little ones through the crack. Met a possum in the road, Blind as he could be. Jumped the fence and whipped my dog And bristled up at me. Butterfly he has wings of gold, Firefly wings of flame. Bedbug got no wings at all but he gets there just the same. Now they way the song is tabbed out here you are playing a chord progression that runs: C / F / C / G / C / F / C G / C If we compare that chord progression to our scale and the number system: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 C D E F G A B C It's easy to see that we are working with the 1, 4 and 5 chords. Now how would you play Boil Them cabbage Down in the key of G? How would you play the song in D, A or even E? In the beginning when you first start going to jams the chord changes will seem almost random. If you stick with it and keep working on playing and singing stuff at home you'll start to "feel" the chord change coming. After a while it gets to be almost instinctive. The other thing that helps is understanding rhythm. In music everything from the notes you play to the rests where you don't play anything has a time value attached to it. That time value is defined as rhythm. Without rhythm the notes would have no context and everything would just come out like noise. We break music up into measures with a specific number of beats. A beat is the term we use to describe the pulse of the music. The number of beats in a measure is dictated by the time signature. The time signature tells us how many beats are played in a measure or group of measures. A time signature like 4/4 indicates that we will play four beats to a measure (4/) and that each beat will have the value of a quarter note (/4). If the time signature was 3/4 it would indicate three beats to a measure (3/) and that each beat will have the value of a quarter note (/4). 6/8 indicates that each measure will have six beats (6/) and that each beat will have the value of an eighth note (/8). A whole note is just that, a note that is counted for the whole value of the measure. In 4/4 time we would count out a measure of music with a whole note by tapping our foot once and counting to four: "one" tap tap tap tap A half note has one half the time value of a whole note. In 4/4 time we would count out a measure of music with two half notes by tapping our foot on the first and third beat: "one" "two" tap tap tap tap A quarter note has one half the time value of a half note. In 4/4 time we would count out a measure of quarter notes by tapping our foot on each beat: "one" "two" "three" "four" tap tap tap tap An eighth note has one half the time value of a quarter note. In 4/4 time we would count out a measure of eighth notes by tapping our foot on each beat and counting "and" each time our foot comes up: "one" "and" "two" "and" "three" "and" "four" "and" tap tap tap tap The reason rhythm and chord progressions are so important brings me to the best kept secret in folk music. Ready? Here we go: If you are in rhythm with the group and following the chord progression it's next to impossible to hit a wrong note. I'm not kidding. Stick to the basics and keep things simple and you can be out there making music and having fun. Don't worry. Don't wait to be perfect because it never happens - and if it did then it would be pretty freaking boring because the "good stuff" happens by accident. Just go play. -Patrick |
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15 May 05 - 09:44 PM (#1485749) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: Peter T. Well, yes, who is to argue with P. Costello, but if you have all that under your belt, then doing some watching seems to help -- at least me. yours, Peter T. |
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15 May 05 - 10:09 PM (#1485756) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: GUEST,.gargoyle Fripping Bat--sheeeeeeit
Mr. Costello!!!!
A handful of minutes and your (most excellent insight) would have nearly permanetly been lost to the MASSES
Sincerely,
A SINCERE thank you...I learned a valuable new addition to my knowledge base.
MAX/JOE surely the clones can understand "QUALITY" and alow "legitimate threads to stand for three days?" Not everyone "checks-in" on a daily basis.....for information of this sort.....let it stand for no less than a week....most of the rest are double-flushers. |
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15 May 05 - 10:38 PM (#1485765) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: kendall Few things are more irritating than having someone stumbling along half a beat behind in the wrong key. |
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15 May 05 - 11:34 PM (#1485795) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: GUEST U=r-right!<[> half-moon missed verersial by more ant 2/3 brsy/zzzzzzz/{Petem Cpolstillinp. / and Peter bay bez"umtoucahge" Have you scene their sadfares isme the rerun.??????
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15 May 05 - 11:54 PM (#1485806) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: HuwG May I somewhat tentatively offer a suggestion ? If playing a guitar in standard tuning, and there is more than one of these in the session, it is worth knowing the barre chord positions for some of the more common keys. Two guitars bashing out the same chords can be a little overpowering. If one of them plays an octave higher, or even ventures to pick out the individual notes in the barre chords, it adds some quite pleasing variety. On most acoustic guitars, with the usual heavy strings, holding the barre chords for an entire tune or round or lengthy song can be hard work. But I think it worthwhile for a guitarist to add an individual descant line for even a single verse, (in my humble opinion). |
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16 May 05 - 01:41 AM (#1485829) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: open mike I-----IV-----V |
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16 May 05 - 02:02 AM (#1485833) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: Manitas_at_home No session is a free-for-all, there are always implicitly understood rules. Even at festivals, where you'd think the sesion was starting from scratch, there will be a set of common expectations eg. mainly Irish music or French msuic or whatever, and there will often be a session leader. Playing along with others. Listen the first time through the melody at least. Join in with the volume well below the originators. Keep listening. |
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16 May 05 - 02:14 AM (#1485835) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: The Fooles Troupe There is really only one secret to Playing Along with others... Listen - and HEAR! |
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16 May 05 - 06:55 AM (#1485923) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: Peter T. One nice thing about playing in open tunings is that (to echo something said a few posts ago) is that you can accompany people in standard tunings with a slightly different sound (he was talking about bar chording in a different configuration). The tough part is being able to do the translation from standard chord moves to open chord moves fast. yours, Peter T. |
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16 May 05 - 12:19 PM (#1486051) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: MAG This is a truly helpful thread. I am right about at this stage of learning to jam with others and these tips are right on the money. I play in a contra band but we (I) follow the lead sheet, mostly. Is anyone on this thread in Portland, OR, and has suggestions about Sunday jams at this level?? TIA, MAG |
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16 May 05 - 01:31 PM (#1486093) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: Pauline L Playing Along for Dummies: Listen Play softly until you're sure of yourself I-----IV---------V |
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16 May 05 - 01:41 PM (#1486100) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: The Shambles Not so sure about tricks - there is only one reason to play along with others. That is if you feel that you can add something. Just because you can play along - does not always mean that you should. The worst thing - is to do anything that negativly impacts on the person playing. |
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16 May 05 - 01:45 PM (#1486103) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: Bill D there oughta be something in the thread title saying "for guitar players" *smile*..(although there IS some nice general advice about courtesy) As an autoharp player, (and sometimes recorder player) and a relatively amateur musican, there are lots of things I can't follow anyway...so I put my ear on the 'harp, strum softly to see if I have the key (whadda ya' MEAN in "B"?").. and am in tune. Then, if it is not too complicated, or if it is obvious that I KNOW the tune the way it's being played, and if other instruments will not drown out the singer, I play along. I do not even pretend to play in a singer starts an unaccompanied ballad, or if a musician is using more than 4 chords, as I'm sure I will miss some of them. Yep...that means I don't play on everything...and that's just fine. There rules are especially important if the leader is an average musician who will be bothered and unsure by hearing others doing different stuff than they are doing! (well, there is one local exception who we usually try to overwhelm when he begins murdering a common selection....but...) |
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16 May 05 - 02:31 PM (#1486133) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: PoppaGator Besides using barre chords to play in different positions up the neck, or playing in open tunings, another way to add a little variety while playing along is to capo up a few frets higher than the song leader (or, if the leader is playing with a capo, play in open position if possible or capo at a lower position). Same basic principle as using barre chords, but easier on the fingers... Admittedly, this is relatively advanced advice ~ "Playing Along II" ~ but it's certainly an idea worth mentioning. One of course needs to be able to recognize the chord changes in a simple song and understand how to transpose keys, concepts many of us can handle and which all of us can reasonably hope to learn. (I can't take credit for this one, by the way; as many of you probably recognized already, this is a bit of advice that has often been put forward by Kevin McGrath of Harlow.) Having a large number of instruments strumming the same (full) chords on the same beat is not always termendously interesting ~ especially when most or all of the intruments are guitars! (Of course, it's far preferable to hearing the wrong chords played not on the beat...) While the beginnners in a group should not be discouraged from doing their best with a simple approach, the overall sound and appeal ~ and fun! ~ of a group jam is greatly enhanced when those who are able can introduce some variety by: ~ playing in different positions on the neck; or ~ fingerpicking patterns of single notes rather than strumming full chords, or ~ (something no one has mentioned yet) playing single-string fills or runs between (i.e., in response to) the sung lines. |
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16 May 05 - 02:43 PM (#1486137) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: Once Famous I just stay away from jams where there are poor players who don't know what they are doing. |
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16 May 05 - 03:04 PM (#1486155) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: Peter T. Yeah, I should have said guitars, but now that I didn't, it would be nice to hear more from other instruments (please no bodhran jokes, there are a million threads of those). I have been in one or two Irish sessions listening to fiddle players, and no one ever says what key they are in or anything, but people seem to be able to follow it (is that because they are all in D or something?) yours, Peter T. |
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16 May 05 - 03:04 PM (#1486157) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: PoppaGator Ah, but Martin, even in the exalted circles in which you operate, aren't there some players less experienced than others? Aren't there some tips you could pass along to players who are basically musically literate but who could contribute more to a group session if they just got a bit of advice from an insider? For example, what if a folk/country-blues picker with forty years of playing experience wanted to sit in with you and your bluegrass buddies? Someone perfectly capable of simple full-chord strumming on G, C and D7 who would be glad to do more, but who might not be sure just what kind of embellishment/variation, and how much, to inject? Any advice? |
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16 May 05 - 06:14 PM (#1486230) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: mandotim In our regular session the less confident tend to be encouraged to bring something they do know; by the second verse they usually have a skillful and sympathetic 'band' trying to make them sound great. Builds confidence very quickly. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that one ingredient of playing with others is 'find the right others'. There are sessions where people treat the music as some sort of sacred ritual or difficult technical exercise, and show the same intolerance as fundamentalists of any persuasion. I'd also echo a lot of the thoughts about listening. Another idea is to know your scales well, especially the 'patterns' of major, minor and blues scales on your particular instrument. Then, if you can find two or three notes in the song or tune that fit a pattern, you can usually work out the melody and/or chords quite quickly. Rhythm is another issue; listen carefully and try to feel the 'pulse' of the tune. Imagine dancing to it, and softly tap a foot or a palm until you have the pulse in your head. Hope this helps Tim from Bit on the Side |
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16 May 05 - 06:36 PM (#1486239) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: The Shambles I have been in one or two Irish sessions listening to fiddle players, and no one ever says what key they are in or anything, but people seem to be able to follow it (is that because they are all in D or something?) If it is in a major key - if its not in D it will be in G and if not it will be in A. If it is in a minor key - if it is not Am it will be in Em. But there is a little bit more to it than this. |
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17 May 05 - 02:12 AM (#1486421) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: GUEST The tunes usually have an A and a B part (sometimes a C,D and a F part). The A part consists of phrase that gets played twice - followed by the B part that gets played twice. The A and the B part are repeated - usually three times - and and that is the end of that tune - then the session will go into another tune. Mostly there are two or three tunes played together and this is known as a set. The tunes in a session set - are usually the same type of tune i.e. a set of jigs, reels, polkas, hornpipes etc. |
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17 May 05 - 09:38 AM (#1486535) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: GUEST Don't feel you have to play all the time, only when you have something to add. Much worse than guitar players strumming in unison is several picking when not exactly doing the same pattern in time. Most importantly follow the person doing the song don't lead them. It really pisses me off when I hear someone start off a song or tune and another player who may, or may not, be more accomplished then drives it along with a different tempo, pattern or even just emphasis. Let people do their stuff their own way and remember that if you are joining in with what someone else is doing you are backing them. |
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17 May 05 - 02:19 PM (#1486709) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: Peter T. In an Irish set are all the three tunes in the same key? yours, Peter T. |
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17 May 05 - 03:01 PM (#1486735) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: Stewart "In an Irish set are all the three tunes in the same key?" Usually, but not always. Often one will go from the major to the relative minor - such as G major to E minor. Then there are modal keys. D dorian is the most usual - start with D on the piano and play only the white keys. It sounds like a minor scale, but not quite - the 7th note of the scale is flatted. Some modal tunes can be played with just one chord as a sort of drone - for example Dm for a D dorian mode, or perhaps with with a Cmajor thrown in when needed for harmonic reasons. And another comment: when tempted to accompany a singer, listen carefully first. At times when I sing or play a slow air with a free meter, accompanyment is not wanted, in fact it can throw the whole tune or song off. Knowing when not to play is just as important as knowing when and how to play accompanyment. S. in Seattle |
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17 May 05 - 04:51 PM (#1486787) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: Peter T. Thanks. yours, Peter T. |
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18 May 05 - 02:13 AM (#1487044) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: GUEST The thing to rememmer about session tunes is that they were originally for dancing and that the dances can go on longer that an individual tune. But as long musicians keep the tunes in the set to all reels or or jigs - dancing can still take place and the musicians can do as they wish to ensure they don't get too bored. There are really no rules as far as the keys (modes) of the tunes in a set - as there is no need for this. Although anyone attempting to dance a set or reels at the speed that some sessions now play them - would have to be very fit - or probably die in the attempt............ |
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19 May 05 - 04:57 PM (#1488474) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: Peter T. refresh. yours, Peter T. |
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20 May 05 - 03:31 PM (#1489436) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: GUEST,cromdubh Well said as usual Mr. Costello. I play by ear and am learning bits of theory as I go along. But the do`s and don`t very much depend on the situation and the others involved. I play a bass and if I`m not sure I`ll hmm along in my head and gradually play softly. As I become more sure of where the song or tune is going, then the volume goes up accordingly. |
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25 May 05 - 07:42 AM (#1492723) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: GUEST,GUEST I was glad to hear that Pat Cooksey enjoyed the Rothenburg festival too. Nigel (Denver) certainly did as he always does. I made it one year with Jim McLean and Nigel, but couldn't stand the pace. Sorry I was not there this year. I would have liked to have met Pat |
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25 May 05 - 09:26 AM (#1492801) Subject: RE: Tricks to Playing Along with others From: Vixen Lots of really good info in this thread! I find it much easier to stick to a rhythm and change chords correctly when there's a bass player who keeps good time and walks to the next chord. I know the essential theory behind how trad tunes are, for the most part, constructed, but sometimes the changes don't come when I expect, and that little "boomp boomp boomp" walking bass line gets me to the right chord at the right time. As for improvising unknown melodies on whistle, there's just no way to "play quietly"--if I've only got my whistles, I don't play if I don't know the tune, or I just play a low drone on the root note of the current chord. Just another $0.02, fwiw. V |