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17 May 05 - 12:35 PM (#1486607) Subject: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: ard mhacha George Galloway appearing before the US Senate Committee made Coleman and Levin look like two men who were sorry they ever accused him of profiting from the Saddam regime. It was fascinating to watch Galloway tearing apart all of the "evidence" provided by the Committee, at one stage I thought Coleman had disappeared under the table as Galloway lashed into him, he seemed to be lost for words as Galloway stoutly defended his role in the food for oil programme. Fair play to you George you came out of this a winner, great TV. |
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17 May 05 - 12:41 PM (#1486616) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: GUEST,Giok He's a good orator right enough, even when he talks crap he makes it sound good, he's still a self seeking wanker though. Giok |
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17 May 05 - 12:56 PM (#1486634) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Bunnahabhain Mr George Galloway stood before Saddam Hussein and said: 'Your Excellency, Mr President. I greet you in the name of the many thousands of people in Britain who stood against the tide and opposed the war and aggression against Iraq and continue to oppose the war by economic means which is aimed to strangle the life out of the great people of Iraq. "I greet you too, in the name of the Palestinian people…..I thought the President would appreciate to know that even today, three years after the war, I still meet families who are calling their newborn sons Saddam…Sir, I salute your courage, your strength your indefatigability. And I want you to know that we are with you until victory, until victory until Jerusalem." The Times, 20th January, 1994 At the time, the estimated death toll for wars started by Saddam, and the repression of his own people, was just over 1 million people. Just in case any Americans wonderered what they were dealing with in Galloway.... |
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17 May 05 - 01:25 PM (#1486667) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: DougR I watched the hearings. He puts on a good show but it's all smoke and mirrors I think. He did nothing to disprove his connection to the Oil for Food program, primarily he ranted and raved about the same things the lefties on the Mudcat rant and rave about. Perhaps some of you Mudcat admirers should bestow upon Sir George an honorary membership in the Mudcat! With Max's approval of course. :>) DougR By the way, this is the second thread about Sir George. |
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17 May 05 - 01:38 PM (#1486679) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Folkiedave Well, America said Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, Galloway said they didn't. America said that the fall of Bagdhad was the end of the war - Galloway said it was just the beginning. America said that the people of Iraq would greet the invasion of Iraq with open arms - Galloway said they wouldn't. Galloway pointed out that the people who really benefitted from the oil for food programme were largely American companies. (try Bayoil). The biggest contributor to his charity was the King of Saudia Arabia and one of the Emirs, they are friends of America so they don't get much of a mention. Americans torture and ignore human rights. (Guantanomo). Americans invaded a Commonwealth country (Grenada). Americans dropped chemical weapons on Vietnam. Americans overthrew an elected regime in Chile and handed it over to a mass murderer and who killed and tortured people. Americans sold arms to Saddam.......etc. etc. etc. etc. Just so George knows what he is dealing with as far as Americans are concerned. But I suspect he did. The fact is that the Committee had no evidence and had they dared repeat the allegations outside privilege they would have lost every penny they collectively owned. George has become rich sueing and winning. Dave |
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17 May 05 - 02:15 PM (#1486701) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: akenaton Bunnahabhain.... I'v said this before and I'll say it again, George Galloway was speaking out against the Saddam regime while America and Britain were supporting him and providing him with weapons. He could never hope to have any effect on the regime by calling Saddam a murderous bastard, which he obviously was. George is nothing if not a pragmatist, and foremost in his mind was the death being caused by the sanctions regime. Simply parroting the old tired cliche of George addressing Saddam without any illumination as to his motives is disingenuous, and in the words of our own acknowledged expert Giok, you sir are a wanker...ake |
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17 May 05 - 02:16 PM (#1486703) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: greg stephens A remarkable performance by George Galloway, extraordinary and powerful under very probing interrogation. Would I buy a barrel of used oil from this man? You bet your life I wouldn't. |
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17 May 05 - 02:28 PM (#1486713) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Ebbie Would someone clarify this, please. Bunnahabhein quotes The Times in January 2004 as reporting that Galloway "stood before Saddam Hussein". What is the date of this meeting? Saddam was allegedly captured in December 2003. If this speech was before the war, the US has said things to Saddam very similar to that. I suspect Galloway's speech was made during/after Gulf War #1. |
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17 May 05 - 02:34 PM (#1486719) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: greg stephens Ebbie: it says January 1994 in Bunnahabhein's post, I think. |
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17 May 05 - 02:44 PM (#1486723) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Folkiedave Listening on the radio I assumed that all the members of the committee would be there to hear George's answers and indeed question him. I now hear that of the members of the committee only two of them were brave enough to turn up to question George Galloway. Nice one Senators. That's democracy - put your name to a series of serious allegations about someone and then when he flies across the Atlantic to answer them you fail to appear. I wonder of any of them had a background from the legal profession!! Dave |
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17 May 05 - 02:49 PM (#1486727) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: GUEST, Ebbie Greg S, you are so right! blush (But at least my assumption was correct. *G* And the fact remains that not long before that, the US officially enthused over Saddam.) |
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17 May 05 - 03:36 PM (#1486753) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: McGrath of Harlow Another example of the truth that people generally hear what they come prepared to hear. I gather there is absolute immunity from any kind of libel suit for Senate Committees, as there is for Parliament in the UK, and that covers rerprinting allegations. The interesting thing will be whether any of the Senators care to step outside and make the same allegations, because that would not be covered by that immunity. I rather think the answer is "No way". |
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17 May 05 - 07:24 PM (#1486887) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Peace News as of a few hours ago. Gawd, I love the Scots. |
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17 May 05 - 07:42 PM (#1486895) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: McGrath of Harlow Galloway takes on US oil accusers This page has a link to "BBC NEWS:VIDEO AND AUDIO Watch highlights from George Galloway's Senate testimony" |
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17 May 05 - 08:48 PM (#1486928) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Peace Thank you for the sound clip, McG of H. I once got my ass chewed out by a Regimental Sergeant Major for about 30-45 seconds. It was the most uncomfortable feeling I have ever had. It was nothing compared to what I just heard. Why doesn't the US Senate find a hole and crawl into it? Or maybe more importantly, why doesn't the US Senate grow balls and deal with the fact that the country they represent has been lied to and subverted by a gang of liars? Bruce Murdoch PS Remind me never to argue with Mr Galloway. |
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17 May 05 - 08:49 PM (#1486931) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Peace Thanks for the thread, ard. |
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17 May 05 - 09:42 PM (#1486954) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: GUEST, Ebbie Wonder if he made the Senators wince? (From the link) "Mr Galloway said he had met Saddam Hussein on two occasions - the same number of times as US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. "The difference is Donald Rumsfeld met him to sell him guns and maps - the better to target those guns. I met him to try to bring about an end to sanctions, suffering and war," he said. |
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17 May 05 - 10:07 PM (#1486960) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: GUEST Galloway was superb. The first person to tell it like it is in the lion's den. A bravura performance that the Democrats should study over and over again. If they could find an American Galloway then Bush and the neo cons would be toast! |
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17 May 05 - 10:09 PM (#1486962) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: GUEST,CarolC I listened to as much of it as I could, but those two questioners were just sooooooo slimey. I had to stop. They remind me of the attorney who attempted to prove in court that I was a Witch, using as evidence the fact that I had once read the book, The Witches (by Roald Dahl), to my son. |
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17 May 05 - 10:48 PM (#1486988) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: GUEST Well, that would likely have led to "James and the Giant Peach" or worse. Have to be careful with people like you. |
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17 May 05 - 10:49 PM (#1486989) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: GUEST,brucie Dang. The 10:48 PM post was me. |
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17 May 05 - 10:54 PM (#1486992) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: GUEST,Bill D I agree with greg stephens...Galloway defended his 'position' with vigor and aplomb and he made several telling points...and no doubt spoke the 'literal' truth....but it is NOT clear yet whether he, in fact, was a partner in a deal for Iraqi oil, and whether his company and thus, causes he supports, made money from slightly illegal dealings. Nonetheless, he showed that many UK politicians have learned the art of speaking and debate a lot better than most of our Senators! (I do wonder how he'd have fared against Senator Byrd of W. VA., a stentorian speaker from the old school!) |
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17 May 05 - 11:28 PM (#1487004) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: GUEST,CarolC Bill, he said that his charity had been investigated by some part of the government in the UK (all monies in and all monies out, is how he put it), and was found to be completely innocent of any wrongdoing. Maybe someone in the UK will set me straight if there is something I don't know about that that I should. But he seemed to answer the question pretty completely. |
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18 May 05 - 12:26 AM (#1487022) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Shanghaiceltic Here's three links to some latest reports. Georgous George is well known for his support of both Saddam and Gadaffi over the years. Can't say I like the man but it is good articulate entertainment. Good point is that it does not clear up the questions of where the money went. Showdown Machine Gun George Insults fly |
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18 May 05 - 01:03 AM (#1487032) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Big Al Whittle Really its the stuff of movies - the contrasting styles of argument - the man riding into town to clear his reputation - the apparent Greyfriars Bobby style probity which he insists he has. Oliver North was a bit like that. Sort of Honest Olly - you can trust me. I guess some people will, whilst others.... |
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18 May 05 - 01:32 AM (#1487038) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: ard mhacha Headline of the day, "Galloway brays as he kicks US asses", the geographical hint won`t be lost on our UK and Irish folk. |
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18 May 05 - 01:39 AM (#1487039) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: GUEST,Blissfully Ignorant The man's certainly got a pair, you gotta give him that... |
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18 May 05 - 03:30 AM (#1487058) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: GUEST,Piers http://www.gnn.gov.uk/environment/detail.asp?ReleaseID=156759&NewsAreaID=2&NavigatedFromDepartment=True Charity Commission Statement in response to George Galloway's evidence to US Senate Sub-Committee 17 May 05 Although we have not yet seen a transcript of Mr Galloway's evidence to the US Senate Sub-Committee today, we understand that his comments included the following: 1) The Mariam Appeal, founded by Mr Galloway, was subject to a Charity Commission investigation in which all money in and all money out of the Mariam account was looked at and no impropriety was found. 2) The Charity Commission investigation into the Mariam Appeal found no donation from any oil company. The Charity Commission would like to restate a number of points of fact regarding its inquiry. The Mariam Appeal was established in 1998. The Charity Commission opened an investigation into the Appeal in 2003, after we received a complaint that was presented to the Attorney General in response to a newspaper article. By 2003, the Appeal had been closed and the books and records had been sent to Jordan in 2001 where the then Chairman of the Appeal, Mr Fawaz Zuriekat resided; the Commission was therefore unable to review them. Our inquiry therefore had to rely on details we were able to obtain from the Appeal's bank accounts. The Appeal did not produce annual income and expenditure accounts or balance sheets. While we were able to review income and expenditure from the bank statements of the Appeal, which we had to obtain using our legal powers direct from banks, we were not able to verify all aspects of expenditure because of the lack of proper documentation. However, we found no evidence that the funds of the Appeal were misapplied (other than the payment of some unauthorised benefits to trustees which were made in good faith). We did not undertake a detailed review of sources of income to the Appeal because the original concern prompting our inquiry was about the use to which funds had been put. Our inquiry did not find evidence of donations direct from oil companies but noted that one of the major funders of the Appeal was Fawaz Zuriekat, an individual named on 12 May 2005 by the US Senate Sub-Committee as allegedly connected with payments in relation to allocations of oil under the Iraq Oil for Food Programme. We have no evidence to show that the income received by the Fund from Mr Zuriekat came from an improper source. But had the recent allegations been known to us at the time of our inquiry, we would have made the information available to the appropriate UK authorities for them to decide whether the Mariam Appeal had received funds from an illegal source. Ends. |
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18 May 05 - 04:25 AM (#1487073) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome in the back door! Careful, Bill D! ...and whether his company and thus, causes he supports, made money from slightly illegal dealings Mr G put it far more forcefuly and eloquently than I ever could but, in a nutshell, he does not have and never had has a company other than a minor holding company he uses for the money earned by his writing. That one has never earned any money from anything other than his literary work. This is verifiable and undisputable. It is points like that that made the senators wince and, I guess, wish they had never listened to heresay let alone report it as fact! I first heard George on the radio rallying against armed intervention and he knocked his protagonists into a cocked hat then. He was very clearly as much against Sadam Hussein as he was against the war and when one of the other contenders tried to label him as a lover of Sadam and his works he wiped the floor with him! Much as I dislike politicians of all ilks at least Mr Galloway does give a straight answer with a power of conviction unseen in most of the wimps in government! He also provides an exceedingly good line in entertaining argument:-) Cheers Dave the Gnome |
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18 May 05 - 04:37 AM (#1487080) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: John MacKenzie Yes he's good for a laugh, and a master of cogent vituperation, but is he representing his constituents, which is what he's being paid to do? Giok |
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18 May 05 - 04:47 AM (#1487086) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Richard Bridge I don't trust anyone who dresses like Galloway - but you have to admire his ability. |
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18 May 05 - 04:58 AM (#1487095) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Nigel Parsons Giok: He's protecting his own reputation, which appears to have been unfairly smeared. Unless you are T.Blair, or D.Blunkett it is very difficult to represent your constituency well with your reputation in tatters Nigel |
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18 May 05 - 05:10 AM (#1487098) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Folkiedave To Giok, What he was doing was trying to answer a libel against him done under the cloak of privilege. He couldn't sue as he has done before in the case of the Telegraph, or in the case of the Christian Science Monitor take an undisclosed sume as damages. He did it whilst Parliament was (more or less) shut. As far as his constituents are concerned, the BBC interviewed an number of them on radio last night and they seemed delighted. But that isn't particularly scientific. How George ranks as a constituency MP was and will be hard to work out. No matter how good MPs are in dealing with their constituents and this work is unsung, they are still generally vulnerable to national swings, so election results are nothing to go by. At the most, psephologists reckon a personal vote is worth about 500 votes. Certainly as an MP for Kelvinside he didn't spend much time in Parliament asking questions and making speeches. But neither did many of them!! See: http://www.theyworkforyou.com/ Best regards, Dave |
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18 May 05 - 05:11 AM (#1487099) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: John MacKenzie Or your country for that matter, eg P Mandelson!! G.. |
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18 May 05 - 06:12 AM (#1487113) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: GUEST Giok, you are unbelieveble. I had to check the date of your post but sure enough May 10 , 5 days after his constituents elected him on a platform of standing up to the liars who took us to war. It wasn't up to Galloway to make any case; he was being slandered from behind the shield of legal imunity by people who state "evidence" which supports the US goverment as fact, despite the fact that it is not backed up by any actual traces of money and that it is supposedly obtained from a prisoner under secret interogation and with no legal scrutiny whatsoever. Yet have the temerity to write off the testimony of someone who appears in person, open to challenge and having been the subject of sustained investigation for years as not credible. |
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18 May 05 - 06:41 AM (#1487128) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: GUEST,Robbie Wilson |
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18 May 05 - 06:56 AM (#1487139) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: greg stephens The stunning thing about GG's performance was the way he was able to give the impression of being honest, eloquent and indignant about others' misdeeds, while being incredibly legalistically careful in what he did and didn't say. His very precise use of words made it totally clear to me that he was making some very carefully prepared pseudo-indignant remarks which had the effect of totally smoke-screening the actual issues he was being asked about(and he did that very successfully, judging by the admiring posts on these threads). I'm sure the casual listener to his statements to the committee would go away with a fixed impression that his charity's accounts had been fully investigated and found 100% pure. Yet the fact is the investigators weren't even able to get a look at the accounts, which have vanished. All they saw was some bare bank account details, which they got a court order to look at. Yet the eloquently indignant George made it sound as if the accounts had been examined and passed as perfect: a look at the transcript of precisely what he said on this subject shows just what a master he is of coolness under fire. A plausible and nauseating rogue, but with a certain charm, of course. |
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18 May 05 - 07:14 AM (#1487144) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: GUEST,robomatic He was fun to watch, he appeared to be a competent BS artist of a kind not usually seen in Washington. The segments of his 'testimony' which were aired were of course the most photogenic, so whether or not anything real was arrived at wasn't obvious. |
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18 May 05 - 07:23 AM (#1487151) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: greg stephens The interesting thing about these posts, and news reports generally, is the great impression GG seems to have made in the USA(among Democrats, anyway). As if he's something kind of secial. Don't you have glib, smarmy, expensive-suited politicians of your own in America? Or is the Scottish accent still worshipped as a sign of honesty? |
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18 May 05 - 07:55 AM (#1487159) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: John MacKenzie Dear guest May 10th I was in Normandy France and unable to post as I was in my motorhome. Please state your reference point. G... |
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18 May 05 - 08:04 AM (#1487163) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Alba No Greg they don't. As to "among Democrats" well GG didn't exactly make statements that were favourable to the republican agenda! It's hard to swallow (for some Republicans) being told the things that GG said, even in soundbyte form, as reported in the press. In fact I was suprised myself that it got so little coverage last night by what is constantly called the "Liberal Media" here...!! no that's not true...I wasn't surprised at all. This kind of no messing, tell it how you really see it....shooting from the lip, what I would be inclined to describe as Glasgow style delivery hasn't been around really in American Politics, (if ever?) its subtler here..kind of....I don't know quite how to describe it...and that style is from both sides not just republicans or democrats... it appears thatneither want to be quoted too much without a lot of thinking before the shoot a remark. They care that the media will be all over like a rash...kind of like not wanting to shit on your own doorstep. GG was a long way from his front door. The Scottish approach to the English Language (I make this remark respectfully, it is an accent issue) when used with Force can indeed make some sit up and take notice....I was grateful that GG didn't slip a few F*** off's in there...now if he had addressed them in pure Glaswegian...oh dear... Personally I thought GG made a good number of points about issues that really no one has wanted to say out loud or if they did the public didn't get to hear it. It was a, if a tad theatrical, direct and no holds barred attack against two of the few that has accussed GG of wrongdoing. Perhaps the others knew what would happen when you bring a Politician from another Country into your political arena and stayed away in anticipation of that. Did GG profit from the Oil for Food programme?? I don't know...that remains to be seen. I can say this....IF and I repeat IF he did, he may be one name on a list of many who did.... As to GG creating a smokescreen, well there is a lot of that about in Politics right now. Let me just say the words "Newsweek magazine Article" now there's a smokescreen if I ever saw one...but a smokescreen doesn't make for good Curtains....you can see right through it. As for George Galloway's remarks...I liked it, it had balls....but then I could be being a wee bit bias there masel...:>) Jude |
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18 May 05 - 08:43 AM (#1487187) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: GUEST,Liz the Squeak Well if the man can rip Jeremy 'Pitbull' Paxman to shreds, then he can certainly take on the Senate! LTS |
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18 May 05 - 09:18 AM (#1487207) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: GUEST,DtG bout bickie again his charity's accounts This is one of the things I don't understand. It is NOT his charity. It is a charity he helped set up to aid an Iraqi girl with leukemia. If - and it is a big if indeed - the charity is guilty of any wrongdoing how is that connected with George? May as well blame the poor girl herself! I have said before I am no fan of any politician so I have no axe to grind against or on behalf of Mr G. but the way these things have been reported is ludicrous. As far as I can see the bigger issue is the 'oil vouchers' accusation but even there I cannot see any wrongdoing by Galloway. If, and again the if is huge, Saddams regime did allocate anything to Galloway then what is the problem provided that George did not take them up on their 'generous offer'. The fact he did not use any such vouchers, even if they were issued, does not seem to be in dispute by anyone. As far as I can see the only crime he is guilty of is backing the loosing side! Good luck to him and may he long continue to be a thorn in the side of the establishment:-) Cheers DtG |
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18 May 05 - 09:52 AM (#1487223) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: George Papavgeris DtG, the link between GG and the charity is that he was the founding chairman; we can't say that he is not connected with it. He acquitted himself well, and gave back better than he got. Many of us, me included, had a satisfying little titter watching his testimony and especially observing the faces of some of the journalists behind him. Good for him! But as Greg Stephens says, there is definitely a little bit of smoke there; his carefully orchestrated responses to a couple of the more stupid questions appeared to be hiding more than they were giving away. But the related questions were stupid indeed. "Would you be dismayed if your best friend had received kickbacks in using the oil-for-food programme" indeed! What kind of a question is this! Hypothetical, and aiming at little more than to make him appear sympathetic towards wrong-doers... |
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18 May 05 - 10:19 AM (#1487229) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: GUEST,brucie Mr Galloway made the US Senate look like garbage. The US Senate needs to do some investigation, that is for sure. It would do well to begin with Halliburton and the President. But hey, uh, like, uh, well, uh, well you see, uh . . . . Fuckin' filthy shit they are. |
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18 May 05 - 11:15 AM (#1487251) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Dave the Gnome I agree we cannot say he is not connected with it EG - I did say he helped set it up. What I do find absurd, and I was not clear enough in this point, is the implication that because he was connected he must know of any wrongdoing and be guilty by implication. Does that make everyone connected with it guilty? As I said - we may as well blame the poor lass herself. She was, after all, the whole reason for the charity being there. On top of the fact that nothing was found to prove the charity did anything wrong there does seem to be a lot of justification for him attacking the senate comittee as he did. I am cynical enough to realise that just because there is no proof does not mean the charity is innocent but until such proof arises what right do the US senate have to state quite categoricaly that both Mr Galloway and the charity are guilty? That should remain in the realm of the tabloid press shouldn't it? Where, as Mr Galloway has proved before, he would at least have recourse to answer the defamation in an independant court of law. As to the 'bit smokey' comment. Yes, agreed again. I am well aware of the ploys and deceipts of politicians and it does look like Mr G sailed close to the wind on more than one occasion. As we all know there IS somethimes smoke without fire. And at times that smoke drifts across from the acusers themselves. Cheers DtG |
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18 May 05 - 11:55 AM (#1487282) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: akenaton Well said Mr Gnome |
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18 May 05 - 12:04 PM (#1487287) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Big Al Whittle lotta stuff going on here, let's see what happens...am i the only one for whom it all has a feeling of unreality? a little bit crazy shall we say....? |
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18 May 05 - 12:20 PM (#1487298) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: akenaton All the conservatives get a feeling of "unreality " when George hammers home the unpalatable truth. The senators faces were a picture when it began to dawn on them what they were tackling in George Galloway MP. The main accusation made before Galloways' appearance, was that he had benefitted personally and financially from Iraqi oil deals. The senators did not even try to make a case for this point. George is a formidable opponent and in the UK he's won more battles than Ghengis Khan. I agree with Dave and Alba, I dislike all politicians, but fortune favours the brave...Ake |
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18 May 05 - 12:24 PM (#1487300) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: RobbieWilson Politicians friends making money from dealing with Iraq, now let me think. Politicians receiving donations from oil traders now let me think. Seems quite likely but I'm not sure Galloway is the right man for the job. |
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18 May 05 - 12:44 PM (#1487317) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: McGrath of Harlow "Thank you for the sound clip... Not just a sound clip. The link I gave lets you see a full video of the whole appearance, streamed via Real Audio or Windows Media Player. I don't know how long it'll be there, but it's worth seeing the whole thing rather than just the snippets. An impressive performance. Bravura is the word. And yes, of course it was a performance, but then that's the business he's in, performing in public - it's just that he does it better than most. Like greg, I probably wouldn't buy a car from him. But I'd be even more sure not to try selling him a dodgy motor. One point Galloway made which I felt deserved more attention, when he pointed out that the charity had accepted money even from the Saudi Royal Family, since it was seen as more important to get money than to worry too much about where it came from. And that bit where the Democrat senator tried to make out that when politricians in America get money from suspect sources they always make a point of paying it back. I somehow think that's a rather over optimistic view of what actually goes on. |
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18 May 05 - 01:32 PM (#1487354) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Big Al Whittle can anyone recommend a a potted online biog about this Galloway chap. he has captured my attention. |
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18 May 05 - 03:06 PM (#1487435) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Wolfgang Guardian report He danced around many of the questions... and answering a slightly different question. Like so many politicians we know. Wolfgang |
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18 May 05 - 03:24 PM (#1487450) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Alba The thing is some people dance well enough to go out for a dinner and a Waltz...others can dance like Fred Astaire.. It ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it:>) ...and yes I agree this most certainly applies to.....Politicians Wolfgang, in fact I would expand it to cover..Politics in general these days given the Political climate. Best Wishes Jude |
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18 May 05 - 04:22 PM (#1487517) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Mr Red Galloway is at the top of his game - anyone who can make Paxman and a senate committee look silly has to have sharp wits. The problem I have with it all is that anyone that good is called a conman in real life. Lets get this straight - He is a politician, the senate committee is a bunch of politicians and Paxman is arrogant and rude and probably failed to get into politics so he does the next best thing. We should believe and respect none of them, they have to earn our respect. And for me it ain't workin yet. the spin I see in all of it would keep a sattelite upright in a solar storm. |
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18 May 05 - 05:14 PM (#1487548) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: akenaton wolfgang....The questions which George "danced around" were trick questions,as El Greko has posted above. I'm sure you have enough intelligence to see that, so what are your motives for posting what you did?...Ake |
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18 May 05 - 07:19 PM (#1487636) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: George Papavgeris Anyway. GG has cojones, he calls a spade a shovel, on the Iraq war(s) he made a call that I find myself in agreement with, he is VERY astute politically, and a withering orator. Now, if HE could replace Blair instead of Brown... |
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19 May 05 - 02:54 AM (#1487840) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Terry K I'd certainly rather live with a Labour Party based on Galloway, Cook and Livingstone than the dynamic duo who currently run things. |
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19 May 05 - 04:13 AM (#1487876) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Dave the Gnome Throw in a bit of Tony Benn and I may even start to agree with them, Terry:-) Cheers DtG |
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19 May 05 - 04:17 AM (#1487882) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: akenaton Problem is , if you put Galloway ,Cook and Livingstone in a box, left them alone for an hour, when you opened it there would be nothing but a bloody pulp!! |
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19 May 05 - 04:20 AM (#1487885) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: George Papavgeris LOL... too many cojones in one room Ake, eh? But at least politics would be fun then! |
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19 May 05 - 04:33 AM (#1487892) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: John MacKenzie Not Tony Benn please not the boring Benn!! G.. |
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19 May 05 - 04:42 AM (#1487898) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Big Al Whittle they did a very nice on cassette version of his Benn's diaries - the years of power - sounds like a great christmas present for Giok |
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19 May 05 - 04:45 AM (#1487899) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: John MacKenzie It's been on Radio4, and I nearly stood on the dog in the rush for the 'OFF' switch. Giok ¦¬] |
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19 May 05 - 05:43 AM (#1487922) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: McGrath of Harlow Not Tony Benn please not the boring Benn!! I rather doubt if many people who have seen the Roy Bailey/Tony Benn double act will agree with that. ................... I suspect that the quality about Galloway's performance that really struck home was the way that he was able to be forceful and angry without at any time losing his rag. If he'd cursed and sworn it would have completely undermined the effect. I can think of a few people, some around the Mudcat, who might learn a lesson from that. |
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19 May 05 - 06:06 AM (#1487932) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Liz the Squeak I had the great fortune to be the artist liason when Saffron Walden festival had Roy and Tony as guests. Mr Benn (or Sir Anthony Wedgewood Benn as some of us remember him) is a most interesting and thoughtful person, he was the epitome of good manners and a true Gentleman. He's also the best socialist I know. The man knows more about British history and politics than most people and could tell most folks a thing or two. He was the main mover in getting a plaque put up in a broom cupboard in the Houses of Parliament to the memory of Suffragette Emily Davies - she spent the night of the 1891 (or 1901?) census there, just so she could put 'Houses of Parliament' on the Census return under 'address' and be the first woman in Parliament! She later went on to win fame (or notoriety) by throwing herself under the King's horse and dying of her injuries, all for the cause of Women's Suffrage. LTS And he's the only politician who has ever kissed my baby. |
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19 May 05 - 06:54 AM (#1487943) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: John MacKenzie Poor Phoebe G |
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19 May 05 - 07:40 AM (#1487971) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: greg stephens McGrath: you were impressed with the way George Galloway was angry without losing his rag. Well, I think you're being gullible there;though it might equally well be that I'm being cynical. But I dont believe he was angry at all, I felt the whole thing was a calculated and slick performance by a very clever manipulator. He was using pseudo-agression and skilful arguing to divert attention from what he wanted to conceal. Impressive, certainly, and it obviously worked with a lot of commentators. |
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19 May 05 - 08:34 AM (#1488014) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: akenaton Cynical?? Moi!! |
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19 May 05 - 08:47 AM (#1488027) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Pied Piper Nice to see the Weasel-worded Mchiavellian hypocrits of the US government being shown as the evil bastards they are. "Save the world shoot a Neo-con" PP |
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19 May 05 - 08:47 AM (#1488028) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: McGrath of Harlow My point wasn't about whether he was particularly sincere in his anger, but that he demonstrated how it is possible to do anger without spluttering and shouting and so forth. I suppose that might be a reflection of his not actually being angry at all, under it all. But often enough people who are putting on an act about being angry feel the necessity to put on the spluttering and shouting as part of the act. Sometimes even more so than people who are sincere. I imagine George Galloway was no more and no less sincere in his anger than most other politicians dealing with issues of life and death. "Sincerity is the key. If you can do sincerity, you've got it made". George Burns. |
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19 May 05 - 05:26 PM (#1488496) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Folkiedave I reckon if I had been wrongly accused as he was - not once with forged documents or twice with forged documents or three times with the same documents that had already been proved forgeries (at least the Daily Telegraph admitted they were not true documents) then I would have been a damned sight angrier than George appeared to be. Personally I wished I could have put on a performance like that - sincere or otherwise - but I know I couldn't have. Best regards, Dave |
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19 May 05 - 09:52 PM (#1488740) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Peace I think Galloway made those members of the Senate subcommittee look like sleazy bottom feeders. They don't have the balls to go after the big boys, so they take names off a list. Reminds me of Jack Lemmon making circles on Fifth Avenue (NY) saying, "I have your names. I have all your names." Is the Senate so emasculated that they fear the Executive and are afraid to call him to account? "No balls at all No balls at all, A fourteen inch penis and NO BALLS AT ALL." Question: are Americans embarrassed? |
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20 May 05 - 12:11 AM (#1488821) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: dianavan Americans should be embarrassed! It took a Scotto call a spade a spade! The Democrats just sit around picking their noses while Galloway walks in and gives them an earful. Good on him, I say. What American has that kind of backbone? I sure haven't seen any evidence of that. I especially liked, 'The biggest sanctions busters were American companies "with the connivance" of the US Government, he argued. \' And the U.S. has the audacity to point fingers at Kofi Annan and Galloway! Before they go accusing others on the basis of heresay, they should start investigating their own! There's plenty of proof of that. Give em shit, Galloway! |
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20 May 05 - 04:57 AM (#1488955) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: mindblaster The man is a clever conniving egotistical, scotch criminal, pulling the wool over all your eyes. There is now an inquiry into his election as MP. Apparantly there were lots of his supporters who voted twice. |
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20 May 05 - 05:21 AM (#1488971) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: RobbieWilson Still at least there is no chance of anyone pulling the wool over your eyes, eh mindblaster, the blinkers would get in the way. Keep yoooooour eye on the ball; the crime here is an illegal invasion of a country against the will of the United Nations, leading to the death of over 100,000 people. The coniving is the constant spread of lies and misinformation and the exertion of extreme political pressure to make members of parliament toe the line and vote for war against the clearly expressed wishes of their constituents and the wool pulling is carried out by those who told us we were going to war for our own protection; because Saddam had nuclear weapons he could launch in 45 minutes, because he was behind the 9/11 bombings. The same people who tell us that opponents of the war are in the pocket of Saddam and when this is proved a lie in court go behind the imunity of the senate and bring out the same lies again. As for your other intended insults; I don't suppose Galloway minds being labelled clever or Scottish, presumably you are neither of these yourself. |
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20 May 05 - 05:26 AM (#1488977) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: mindblaster I am certainly not a jock! You obviously are, as you seem to presume, in your arrogant scotch way, that your view is the right one and inflict it on the rest of the world, The man is a crook history will prove me right. |
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20 May 05 - 07:23 AM (#1489040) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: John MacKenzie Mindblaster.. Is that an name or an oxymoron? G.. |
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20 May 05 - 09:21 AM (#1489101) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: GUEST "in your arrogant scotch way" I don't think drinking Whisky played any part in John's post. " in your arrogant SCOTTISH way" is the correct slaganolgy I think? If your going to slag a whole nation at least be literate enough to know what to say when you do... As for arrogance.."The man is a crook history will prove me right" Aye off ye go...ya eegit and get yer heid examined. signed...... One of the many Scots on this Forum... so bite me |
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20 May 05 - 09:43 AM (#1489116) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: George Papavgeris The issue here Mindblaster is not whether GG is a crook or not. Let the one without sin cast the first stone etc etc. Perhaps he is (a crook), and perhaps he isn't. And if he is, he may one day get his comeuppance or he may not, the same as hundreds of other crooks in the political world. What we are celebrating here however is his balls in calling out the US Government for the crooks THEY are. Whether one is a Scot, or a "not a jock" like you, whether one voted for this party or that, we can still all rejoice at the courage of the little guy shouting that the Emperor is naked. Unless of course you think that the Emperor is not naked. But if so, THAT's what you should be saying, rather than calling GG a crook; the latter is immaterial, it has no relevance, it's diversionary tactics. |
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20 May 05 - 01:49 PM (#1489353) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Peace "Apparantly there were lots of his supporters who voted twice." Well, I should hope SO! They don't have Dieblod there, yet. |
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20 May 05 - 03:43 PM (#1489452) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: ard mhacha The website for the Senate Committee has removed George Galloway`s testimony from it`s Site. All of the other tetimonies on the Oil for Food programme are there, Galloway`s is the only testimony not on the Site. |
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20 May 05 - 04:13 PM (#1489491) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Folkiedave It may be that lots of George's supporters voted twice and it may be that they didn't. One thing is for certain - if you can't prove it - or know someone who can - then you shouldn't say it. And once again I wouldn't libel or slander George - he has become reasonably well off by sueing people who do. Any comment on this one mindblaster? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/16/AR2005051601369.html |
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20 May 05 - 06:26 PM (#1489569) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Peace Ard, are you shittin' me? |
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20 May 05 - 06:52 PM (#1489587) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Peace Galloway Senate testimony PDF goes AWOL Evidence 'missing' from Committee website Iain Thomson, vnunet.com 20 May 2005 ADVERTISEMENT The website for the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs has removed testimony from UK MP George Galloway from its website. All other witness testimonies for the hearings on the Oil for Food scandal are available on the Committee's website in PDF form. But Galloway's testimony is the only document not on the site. "I have met Saddam Hussein exactly the same number of times as Donald Rumsfeld met him," Galloway told the Committee. "The difference is that Donald Rumsfeld met him to sell him guns and to give him maps the better to target those guns." Press representatives for the Committee had no comment. |
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20 May 05 - 06:54 PM (#1489589) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: mindblaster I didn't say it. It was in the national press yesterday! It seems this website is becoming infected witk know-it-all jock/scotch crossdressing tight fisted porridge quaffers! Evil race of bastards. |
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20 May 05 - 07:19 PM (#1489616) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: GUEST while you aren't a bigoted or anything...geez a break pal! Away ye go an huv yer heid examined ya haufwit..mindblaster my arse.. mindlessblaster is mair like it. I was never a Jock at School they dinnae call good athelics that in Scotland and we didnae huv american fitba iether...we huv real fitba (playing without the body armor) ..but aye ye kin take the Scot out o Scotland but ye cannae take Scotland oot the Scot...again..bite me |
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20 May 05 - 07:22 PM (#1489623) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: mindblaster Speak ENGLISH you queer scotch cunt! |
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20 May 05 - 07:23 PM (#1489626) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Peace However, I did hear that if ya wake a Scotsman up at 3:00 AM he talks just like a Canadian. |
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20 May 05 - 07:46 PM (#1489647) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Alba LOL Brucie... Ill need to wake myself up one morning at 3.00am and tape myself...:>) Jude |
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20 May 05 - 07:54 PM (#1489656) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: McGrath of Harlow mindbluster... |
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20 May 05 - 08:14 PM (#1489665) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Peace Anyone ever had Scotch mints? |
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21 May 05 - 05:36 AM (#1489900) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: ard mhacha Brucie, you know I only post the truth, my name is not Coleman, Blair, Bush,etc,etc. It was on vnunet.com. |
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21 May 05 - 07:22 AM (#1489932) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: GUEST,McGrath of Harlow I suppose since the commmittee had already published their "report" without bothering to contact George Galloway, and only two members turned up to see him, they might argue that technically it wasn't a quorate session, and therefore the report of it didn't merit inclusion in the offical record. Regardless of which I suspect that this particular session will be the only one people will ever remember or quote. ............... Here is what the Financial Times website had to report on press reaction in the UK: Gallows humour George Galloway, the maverick independent British MP, has turned from villain to hero overnight in his home country's riotous press after his savaging of US senators. "Gorgeous" George was once pilloried for his combination of champagne lifestyle and hard-left political views, and his association with Saddam Hussein. But the Brits love an underdog, and his savaging of lawmakers who accused him of profiting from the UN's oil-for-food programme has catapulted him up the popularity charts. "George Spanks Yanks" shrieked the Daily Record, the popular paper of choice in Galloway's native Scotland. The Daily Mirror compared him to a Daniel who went into the den and ended up mauling the lion. Even the staunchly rightwing Daily Telegraph, which had to pay him libel damages after accusing him of treason, glowed about his fighting performance. Rupert Murdoch's Sun said the senators "failed to land a single blow" and its New York sister paper, the Post, proclaimed: "Brit fries senators in oil". |
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21 May 05 - 01:34 PM (#1490116) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: dianavan George Galloway, "Have a look at the real Oil-for-Food scandal. Have a look at the 14 months you were in charge of Baghdad, the first 14 months when $8.8 billion of Iraq's wealth went missing on your watch. Have a look at Halliburton and other American corporations that stole not only Iraq's money, but the money of the American taxpayer." I wonder when we will see Halliburton brought before the Senate for questioning? BTW - Whenever MG logs off, mindblaster logs on. Do not respond! He hates being ignored. |
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21 May 05 - 01:57 PM (#1490133) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Peace "Brucie, you know I only post the truth, my name is not Coleman, Blair, Bush,etc,etc. It was on vnunet.com." I know that, ard. The expression I used is one that here means "I believe you but I can't believe it." Never doubted you for a sec. I actually started another thread based on your info and posted seven times in a row as I found more stuff to add. |
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21 May 05 - 04:18 PM (#1490205) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: ard mhacha Fair play to you Brucie, keep on slugging. |
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22 May 05 - 02:53 PM (#1490689) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: RobbieWilson I read above about the senate committe removing GG testimony from it's web site but I don't see a link to that site. Can anyone post one here. I am interested to know whether they pursued the issues in folkieDaves post earlier. |
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22 May 05 - 03:24 PM (#1490703) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: McGrath of Harlow Fair's fair though - it wasn't just the Senate that tried to keep the lid on it - I gather papers including the New York Times cut out the hairy stuff, such as the comment about how Rumsfeld had met Saddam as often as Galloway, but for rather more nefarious reasons. And that is apparently what is counted as "the liberal media" in the USA, and denounced as too left wing! Anyway, here is an interesting piece by a journalist from Scotland who acompanied his mate Galloway on his trip to confront his Senate accusers - a good example of what we used to call "participant journalism" - "When the Respect party leader took on the Senate, one man was by his side to experience the showdown first-hand" Great reading too. |
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22 May 05 - 03:24 PM (#1490704) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Peace I will get you one, Robbie. It's on another thread. BRB. |
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22 May 05 - 03:39 PM (#1490721) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: RobbieWilson committee home page I found the senate committee site and what it says is that Galloway did not make a statement, however there is a link to the testimony so far and it includes Galloway's. hearings video I haven't had time to read all of this but I did read the Berkowitz testimony and the scale of US oil companies' subversion of the embargo and the US Govt/ Military connivance with this is just astounding Berkowitz |
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22 May 05 - 04:07 PM (#1490742) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Peace http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:BxB5aEhYCdAJ:hsgac.senate.gov/index.cfm%3FFuseaction%3DHearings.Detail%26HearingID%3D232+us+s Yes. I keep wondering if his oral statement will eventually be transcribed and 'put on the record', and if when it is how many changes will have taken place--little editing here, little change there. |
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22 May 05 - 04:21 PM (#1490751) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Nigel Parsons Mindblasted: Yes, there may have been some level of electoral fraud during the elections. But who is calling for an enquiry, with evidence to give as well? George Galloway If he was involved in electoral fraud this time he's got a damn sight more cheek than I would give him credit for Nigel |
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22 May 05 - 04:23 PM (#1490753) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: dianavan It says that Mr. Galloway did not submit a statement. Maybe that means it was up to him to make sure it was on record. Perhaps he was supposed to that in advance of the hearing. Maybe he didn't want to give them any warning. Fair play. |
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22 May 05 - 04:27 PM (#1490756) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: Peace However, the transcript of the hearing is PART of the record. So, sooner or later it will have to appear in writing I would think. |
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22 May 05 - 05:03 PM (#1490779) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: dianavan O.K. whats going on? I can't open the link the link to the video provided by Robbie Wilson. I can't open the link to the video through any other web page. I managed to start the video but then there appeared to be a problem just before George was beginning to speak. A screen appeared telling me there was a problem that could not be fixed. Is this coincidental? Is there something wrong with my computer? |
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22 May 05 - 05:41 PM (#1490788) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: George Papavgeris I had no problem accessing it dianavan, including GG's evidence. It's a 3-hour streaming video, perhaps the buffer settings on your machine are not sufficient. |
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22 May 05 - 07:06 PM (#1490811) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: dianavan Thanks, I think that is the problem. Now I just have to figure out how to solve it. |
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22 May 05 - 07:32 PM (#1490822) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: McGrath of Harlow Did you try the BBC link I gave? Here it is again. (The page has two video links, one for the whol;e of Galloway's appearance, the other just edited highlights. (But not edited New York Times style to remove the bits that struck home most effectively.) |
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22 May 05 - 08:14 PM (#1490850) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: GUEST Here is a link to what the Times calls the "Transcript of Statement made by George Galloway". Text is a bit odd looking, at least on my PC, but it's all there. The Link |
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22 May 05 - 11:42 PM (#1490976) Subject: RE: BS: Galloway tears them to shreds From: dianavan I finally got to hear the famous orator and I must say he stands up well under pressure, which begs the questions: Why has the senate taken on the task of investigating the Oil For Food program? Could it be to cover up their own underhanded dealings? Does the U.S. senate have any right to investigate citizens of other countries? Did the U.N. or Iraq ask them to do this on their behalf? I know they think they are the cops of the world but do they think they are the judges of the world, too? ...and that schmarmy Democrat had the nerve to say that Galloway was not credible. Why does anyone think that the Oil For Food program wouldn't be corruptable? When the U.S. was informed of the Texan, Bayoil scam, why didn't they do something at that time? If it had been 'nipped in the bud', others may not have been so quick to jump on the bandwagon. Food distribution is always a matter of greasing the palms of many. I really don't understand the focus on the Oil For Food program. What is the point? The program was about ending sanctions and feeding Iraqis wasn't it? Are Iraqis being fed now? The answer is that the rate of starvation has increased. I ask again - what is the point of this inquiry? If Halliburton and Bayoil are called to testify, I might believe it is something more than a witch hunt. Until then, it looks like a re-run of the McCarthy hearings. Give 'em hell, Galloway! They deserve it. |