BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))

30 May 05 - 11:17 AM (#1496085)
Subject: BS: BRITISH NAZI PARTY ((BNP))
From: Peace

It has come to my attention that this vermin is coming to the Mudcat lots. Kinda like the crabs I had back in the late 1960s. How do you feel about that? (I could give a rat's ass how nameless guests feel; rather, this is addressed to regular 'catters.)

---

30 May 05 - 11:23 AM (#1496086)
Subject: RE: BS: BRITISH NAZI PARTY ((BNP))
From: rumanci

It stinks brucie - but all sorts of nasties will try any means of spreading their poison.    May they all meet one day and destroy each other.
rumanci

---

30 May 05 - 12:19 PM (#1496115)
Subject: RE: BS: BRITISH NAZI PARTY ((BNP))
From: Crystal

Can we put rat poison down? I know it's inhumane but some vermin are just to unplesant to be nice to!

---

30 May 05 - 12:20 PM (#1496117)
Subject: RE: BS: BRITISH NAZI PARTY ((BNP))
From: Leadfingers

Any one is at liberty to join the cat , or to post as a guest without joining , and wether you agree with the BNP or not , they are entitled to their point of view ! If you dont like what is posted , the easy way out is to ignore it !

---

30 May 05 - 12:22 PM (#1496118)
Subject: RE: BS: BRITISH NAZI PARTY ((BNP))
From: Clinton Hammond

"It has come to my attention that this vermin is coming to the Mudcat lots."

How has this 'come to your attention'? Did you dream it, or read it in a tabloid?

What does it matter what anyone thinks of it, when they can't be stopped anyway?

---

30 May 05 - 12:40 PM (#1496130)
Subject: RE: BS: BRITISH NAZI PARTY ((BNP))
From: John MacKenzie

I abhor this party and everything that it stands for it is however only fair to point out that the BNP is the British Nationalist Party, and there is no such thing as the British Nazi Party and I hope that a party with that name would not be allowed in this country.
Giok

---

30 May 05 - 12:44 PM (#1496131)
Subject: RE: BS: BRITISH NAZI PARTY ((BNP))
From: Bunnahabhain

We all know what we should do with troublemakers, of any sort. Ignore them.

If certain people are continually offensive, and show no signs of wanting to listen, learn or genrally behave as a sensible adult, then treat them as a troll.

Bunnahabhain.

---

30 May 05 - 12:52 PM (#1496135)
Subject: RE: BS: BRITISH NAZI PARTY ((BNP))
From: GUEST,disgusted

You can call a dog shit a rosebud but it will still be a dogshit.
You can call the British nazi party the British nationilst party but it still is the British nazi party.
That is a method of brainwashing people into thinking that the bnp stand for something other than rascism, violence and anti Semitism.
All the bnp and it's supporters are doing here is trolling

---

30 May 05 - 01:29 PM (#1496156)
Subject: RE: BS: BRITISH NAZI PARTY ((BNP))
From: Once Famous

They are here because they are part of the British folk music society. They are here because they are part of British society and that culture, which has lost much of it's own identity because of political correctness and poor immigation laws, has allowed it to happen.

Thanks very much brucie for bringing this topic up.

I have been harping about the anti-semitism on Mudcat. They are here, and many, not all, regulars support them.

---

30 May 05 - 04:25 PM (#1496225)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: gnu

So Martin, these here are 'folk' Nazis?

---

30 May 05 - 04:32 PM (#1496229)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Little Hawk

Hating Nazis is as easy as chewing bubble gum or passing gas. Anyone can do it with no mental effort whatsoever. It's as easy as it is for Nazis to hate Jews or some other people they were told to hate.

And that makes me wonder why certain people bother? I'm more attracted to things that are a bit of a challenge, so I can get some mental exercise. Know what I'm saying?

---

30 May 05 - 04:40 PM (#1496233)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Peace

"And that makes me wonder why certain people bother?"

This certain person hates the bastards because when they go unchecked they proliferate.

---

30 May 05 - 04:42 PM (#1496236)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: gnu

Well, LH. When you see their shit up close, it goes far beyond easy as chewing gum. The fuckers were here in Moncton a while back and the police couldn't do anything about it. However, the good people of Moncton simply asked them to leave in a manner which they could understand and there ain't many now. But, it wasn't 'easy'.

---

30 May 05 - 05:05 PM (#1496257)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Little Hawk

Everything proliferates when it goes unchecked. Dumb radio shows. Goon hockey. Britney Spears! Consider what has happened with junk food. Junk food killed more people this year than Nazis did, Bruce.

---

30 May 05 - 05:07 PM (#1496259)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Little Hawk

Oh, and so did the US Marines.

---

30 May 05 - 05:15 PM (#1496271)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: GUEST

Gibson you are worse than any Nazi, you try to proliferate hate among anyone who chooses to listen you sick bastard.
Why do you all constantly feed this troll?

---

30 May 05 - 05:21 PM (#1496277)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: GUEST

USA

---

30 May 05 - 05:23 PM (#1496282)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Once Famous

I do it to make you miserable. Isn't it obvious to you Guest that I am succeeding?

---

30 May 05 - 05:40 PM (#1496296)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: GUEST

"Gibsons KKK"

---

30 May 05 - 05:46 PM (#1496300)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: GUEST

Junk food killed more people this year than Nazis did, Bruce.

God, what a moronic thing to say.

---

30 May 05 - 05:46 PM (#1496301)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Once Famous

Guest, and everyone else.

I NEVER click on the things you want to show me.

NEVER do I ever bother. So you waste your time.

This Guest is just bent out of shape because the malignant tumor in his brain is about to explode and shoot gissum all over his brown shirt.

As I mentioned on some other thread. Yes, unfortunately there is still a small faction KKK in America and that is way too bad. However, there is no KKK in any the folk music scene or in any part of American mainstream society. The British are losing their identity to the world.

The BNP Trio I understand wears matching brown shirts when they perform.

---

30 May 05 - 05:47 PM (#1496303)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Little Hawk

That certainly hits the nail on the head, Martin. Some people are under the impression that their happiness depends on others...and they never cease trying to control those others. They legislate, police, and censcor. That was the problem with the Nazis too. They were/are extreme control freaks. The worst kind of control freak is the guy who will kill you just so he can feel "safe". Such people are never safe, and they never run out of enemies.

Life is free. But are people's minds free? Usually the answer is "no". People are their own prison wardens. It is when they try also to imprison others without just cause that they cross the line.

---

30 May 05 - 05:57 PM (#1496312)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Little Hawk

No, GUEST, it is a bit foolish to constantly obsess about "Nazis" in lieu of tremendously more significant problems in present society. I think you failed to grasp my analogy or my intention. It was an example intended to stimulate wider thought patterns regarding what one freely chooses to focus on.

People rave about Nazis because it makes them feel good to do so. Believe me. It's the same reason Nazis rave about Jews, and other people they have chosen to hate.

Hatred is the problem. If you can't see it in yourself, then you'll only see it reflected in others, won't you? And that will quite possibly make you dangerous at some time.

---

30 May 05 - 06:05 PM (#1496323)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Little Hawk

The "nail on the head" I was referring to was Martin's brief post of 30 May 05 - 05:23 PM

B-52s also killed more people this year than Nazis, and so did Muslim suicide bombers and drug gangs. 3 more problems that are way more important than Nazis at the moment.

A Nazi is a problem when he commits violence and breaks the law. If he doesn't do that, he's simply someone with an opinion. An ill-informed and extremely unwise and marginal opinion. That is not a crime.

---

30 May 05 - 06:28 PM (#1496334)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: GUEST

People rave about Nazis because it makes them feel good to do so.

Always thought you were a shallow ignorant person, thankyou for confirming it. You are beginning to smell as bad as the company you keep.

---

30 May 05 - 06:35 PM (#1496335)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Peace

LH, you might check your logic on this one. Yes, war killed more people this year than Nazis did. Yes, car 'accidents' killed more people this year than Nazis did. Yes, many other things killed more people this year than Nazis did.

That is no argument however against opposing Nazis. Because when people like that get into power they kill more folks than were killed by all the above this year. And that's just with their extermination camps.

---

30 May 05 - 07:13 PM (#1496345)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: GUEST

remember the Nazis hijacked german folk music and made it unacceptable to young post war germans who then became ersatz irish. it can happen again to English folk music if it isn't guarded from nationalism.

---

30 May 05 - 07:44 PM (#1496366)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Big Al Whittle

yeh if folk music had a significant following, that would be top of my worry list.

lets face it Garibaldis redshirts could kidnap English folk music and no one much would notice - certainly not the TV programmes schedulers.

---

30 May 05 - 07:49 PM (#1496368)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Peace

True on that. Looking at the BBQ pic in the 'music' section, it seems the BNP must have served about 80 people. However, at a pound a burger, it will double the size of their coffers.

---

30 May 05 - 07:52 PM (#1496372)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: GUEST

Don't nobody be gettin' on Little Hawk's case. After all, he's "a major protest songwriter." I know that 'cause Little Hawk himself declared his majorlyness.

---

30 May 05 - 08:01 PM (#1496381)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: GUEST

You spelt majorette wrong.

---

31 May 05 - 05:02 AM (#1496571)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: GUEST,Partridge

click here

This is a site used by the BNP. I think it tells you about the sort of people that are attracted to fascism.

I have been photographed by them many times, but luckily I am yet to appear on redwatch - not so lucky for my friends though. They have had all sorts of abuse from the BNP.
At an anti nazi rally BNP activists were openly taking photographs of those demonstrating. When we tried to take a photo of the BNP we were threatened with arrest. Whats going on????.......

Pat

---

31 May 05 - 05:37 AM (#1496585)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: GUEST,Don (Wysiwyg) T by the back door

Just an observation.

Nazism should not be confused with Nationalism. It was British Nationalism (a strong sense of national identity) that enabled us to fight off all the would be invaders of this country since William the Conqueror.

It is what kept us fighting in two world wars, and what brought tens of thousands of men from our former empire to volunteer their services in our defence.

It had nothing to do with hating people who had different roots, cultures, or religions.

Nazism, on the other hand, is a philosophy of hatred and contempt toward all other races and all religions. The "National" tag that they have usurped to give their vile creed some spurious veneer of respectability, is not worthy of credence.

Remember, these are the people our parents were fighting against. Do you really think they could ever get a real toehold on our folk music, or our system of government. Dream on.

Don T.

---

31 May 05 - 08:04 AM (#1496621)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: GUEST

Sorry guys, you live in Britian right?

If Scotland are allowed a Scottish Nationalist Party, Wales a Welsh Nationalist party with no one attacking them, then why isnt Britian allowed a British Nationalist Party?

I havent heard of this party, but over here, it seems weird if a country isnt allowed its own nationalist party.

Shed Any Light?

---

31 May 05 - 08:20 AM (#1496629)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: GUEST,Jon

There isn't a country called Britain. I assume you are thinking of England.

---

31 May 05 - 11:01 AM (#1496665)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Peace

Why don't some of you who call these assholes a nationalist party check out the folks they affiliate with. Nationalist my ass. They are not Nazis by definition--but they are by philosophy, so cut the shit and call a spade a shovel. IMO.

BM

---

31 May 05 - 11:14 AM (#1496671)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Peace

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:hPuGrGueNBsJ:www.socialistworker.co.uk/1796/sw179607.htm+BNP+funding,+england&hl=en

---

31 May 05 - 12:22 PM (#1496701)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Peace

Friends of the BNP. Just a fraternal club, huh?

---

31 May 05 - 03:01 PM (#1496769)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Little Hawk

I don't object to you opposing Nazis if you want to, Bruce. But how do you intend TO oppose them? That's the question. What does it involve? Do you intend to deny them the right to have and express an unpopular opinion in public? If so, remember that that is what the Nazis themselves did to many, many people when they were taking over in Germany. They burned books and beat people up and smashed their businesses and suppressed freedom of speech and killed people.

Remember what Lao-Tse said? "By opposing an 'enemy' you give him strength." (that was not a military statement intended for the battlefield, of course, it was a psychological statement. It meant: by harbouring hostility against others and expressing it frequently and viscerally you prompt those others into counter-hostility and paranoia of an extreme sort...thus making them stronger in their basic hostility...and MUCH more dangerous.)

Capiche?

GUEST - Yes, well, I would defend myself against your scurrillous and amusing attempts to defame my internet character, but my character needs no such defence. I am not your enemy and you are not really mine either. You're just a bit confused, because you're not used to thinking "outside the box". You like to hold ancient grudges. That's your problem, not mine. If you heard some of my protest songs, you would love me. (grin)

---

31 May 05 - 03:23 PM (#1496795)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Peace

Then what would you suggest, LH? Forget the oriental philosophy for a moment. How would YOU deal with it?

---

31 May 05 - 03:26 PM (#1496797)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Peace

"us making them stronger in their basic hostility...and MUCH more dangerous.)"

'Why do people think so little of death?
Because the rulers demand too much of life.
Therefore the people take life lightly.

Having to live on, one knows better than to value life too much.'

Quoting your man back to ya.

---

31 May 05 - 03:31 PM (#1496798)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Bunnahabhain

I just got one of these,but not quite so new. I didn't get it for anything more dangerous than dancing, but if the BNP turn up round here I would be very tempted...

---

31 May 05 - 03:39 PM (#1496804)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Little Hawk

Umm...how would I deal with what?

Do you mean what would I do about people calling themselves Nazis and forming groups and parading, for example?

Nothing...except to provide a police presence to avert a riot. To be a Nazi in present society is about as marginal a position as you can take, short of calling yourself a Satanist or practicing public nudity on the street. The Nazis were utterly defeated in 1945...the biggest and most total defeat of a party and government that I can think of in modern times. People who try to resuscitate Naziism now have got to be among the most unrealistic and pathetic losers one could possibly imagine.

The kind of people who join neo-Nazi groups are usually tremendously lonely, isolated, paranoid individuals with a persecution complex and a sense of being rejected by most people. They act out their alienation by being drawn to others they perceive as being "outcasts" like themselves, and they find what seems like acceptance there. This usually happens in the teenage years. Such people also join various gangs, motorcycle gangs, drug gangs, skinheads, anything that is way off the beaten track and suggests "fellow rebel and outcast" to them. That is just a sad situation.

Now...here's what I would do: If those people break any civil law, THEN I bring the power of the law down on them exactly the same as I would on anybody else. If not, I leave them alone. They can believe what they want, but I do not allow them to break the law or hurt other people.

Simple.

You cannot declare another human a "non-human" in your mind just because he has decided to call himself a Nazi, anymore than you can do so because he has decided to call himself a Jew, a Republican, a Parsee, a Communist, a Muslim, a Christian, an atheist or anything else.

Have I answered your question adequately...or did you have something else in mind?

---

31 May 05 - 03:48 PM (#1496812)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Peace

Tell the fuckers that if they ever beat you or someone you love.

---

31 May 05 - 04:09 PM (#1496833)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: GUEST

Little Hawk you don't have kids who are going to find s**t pushed through their letterbox then?

---

31 May 05 - 04:12 PM (#1496835)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T

The objection is to them tarnishing the word "nationalist" by using it to describe their utterly indefensible creed.

The Welsh, and Scottish, Nationalists are FOR Wales, and Scotland respectively. They are not AGAINST others.

England has every right to a similar Nationalist party. That, however, is not what we have.

The British Nationalist Party is an organisation of mindless bigots and thugs (many with violent criminal records), who preach racism, and religious persecution, and try to achieve respectability by using the word nationalist to cover their neo-nazi ideals.

As Jon said above, there is NO British Nation, so their party is nonsensical to start with.

If they came out into the open, and called themselves nazis, or neo-nazis, they would still be allowed to exist, provided they kept their language within the limits of the laws relating to inciting race hatred, but I seriously doubt that they would poll many votes.

That is why they persist in hiding behind the word nationalist.

Don T.

---

31 May 05 - 05:38 PM (#1496907)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: gnu

LH and brucie. You are both right. Just talking on different levels. LH on a theoretical level. brucie on a 'practical' level. Unfortunately, the Nazi's here are generally manifested in young, impressionable (yeah, I'd like to use a few diffrent words) males who do stupid (ditto) things.

Swastikas landed on houses here in rural NB just a few weeks ago. The bas... youngsters are starting to 'gather' downtown again, with their muscle dogs and all. How do we deal with these fuc... poor, misdirected youths on a theoretical and/or practical level?

Well, theoretically, we could have an in depth intellectual discourse with them and try to guide them in the right direction. Or, we could kill their dogs, beat the crap out of them and make our streets safe to walk again.

---

31 May 05 - 06:18 PM (#1496938)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Little Hawk

Look guys, I detest the kind of young, violent yobbos you are referring to just as much as you do. It doesn't make much of a difference to me whether they call themselves Nazis, Ku Klux Klan, the Crips, the Bloods, the Vagabonds, the New British Nation or whatever the hell they choose to call their mental illness...

I deal with their criminal acts as I would deal with anyone's criminal acts.

"Tell the fuckers that if they ever beat you or someone you love."

Assuming I am very unlucky, and that happens...

1. I will try as best I can to defend myself (or my loved ones) effectively.

2. I will call the police and let them do what they are trained very well to do.

3. I let the courts take it from there.

"Little Hawk you don't have kids who are going to find s**t pushed through their letterbox then?"

No, I don't. And I do not live in the UK. But...I do spend time on an internet forum where certain people (mostly anonymous ones) are inclined to be extremely hostile and abusive to me, though they clearly have neither the patience or the goodwill to make a real, honest effort to understand what I am saying...and I remain good-natured about it regardless.

Think about that. Your hatred is not my responsibility, it's yours.

I can live with it. And with equanimity. I have never expected life or other people to be absolutely perfect, and I will not outlaw people's right to have stupid, hostile opinions and to express themselves in an unpleasant and ignorant manner...as long as they don't break the normal laws of civil peace and order while doing so.

It sounds to me like you need a STRONG police presence on the street in those UK neighborhoods you are speaking of where these troublemakers hang out. There is your solution. Petition your government and get them to do that.

---

31 May 05 - 06:20 PM (#1496940)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Peace

"I will not outlaw people's right to have stupid, hostile opinions"

Neither will I. But I will have opinions back to them and at them. Because I don't think bastards like that should go unopposed. Think what you will of me for that, LH.

BM

---

31 May 05 - 06:33 PM (#1496947)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Little Hawk

You gotta do what you gotta do, Bruce. :-) I don't judge you for it. We all have different personalities and ways of dealing with things.

I've never been inclined to get into fistfights with people, because it's just not in my nature. I only fight if there is really no other option, I don't do it just to feel a sense of moral satisfaction. I will speak up, though. Depends on the situation.

I find that people who basically like fighting are really good at finding opponents who think the same way...specially when they're teenagers. I never liked it in the least. Of course, I was a very small kid, so I wasn't well equipped physically for stuff like that.

---

31 May 05 - 07:56 PM (#1496985)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Peace

I am 5'9" and I avoid fistfights, if that is indeed what you are implying. You and I have parted ways on this, LH. As you said, ya gotta do what ya gotta do. I don't judge you for it either.

---

31 May 05 - 08:02 PM (#1496994)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull

brucie- [this is meant in the nicest way possible]=
if you don't like a certain group, just ignore them, starting threads just gives them publicity.

---

31 May 05 - 08:21 PM (#1497011)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Peace

They started three threads using the fake Nationalist name. I started one about the British Nazi Party. Just to fuck 'em back. And I will keep on fuckin' 'em back.

---

31 May 05 - 08:21 PM (#1497013)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Peace

But, thank you jOhn.

---

31 May 05 - 09:00 PM (#1497049)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Little Hawk

Well, I wouldn't want to imply it if you weren't implying it, Bruce. I thought maybe you were. Sometimes it's tricky reading between the lines in these discussions.

---

01 Jun 05 - 12:16 AM (#1497133)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: LadyJean

Some years back the City of Pittsburgh allowed the Ku Klux Klan to speak from the steps of the City County building.
It was a great day to commit a crime, since most of the city's cops were on duty protecting those idiots.
Their speeches consisted almost entirely of four letter words, and sexual references. So, their poison didn't make the tv news or the papers. We're rather prudish in the USA you see.
One of the Ku Kluxers hearing what was being said, and the reaction it provoked, rethought his beliefs and quit the Klan.
There's a lot to be said for free speech. It gives assholes an opportunity to show the world how assholy they are.

---

01 Jun 05 - 12:23 AM (#1497135)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Peace

It also gives other assholes the opportunity to vote for them.

---

01 Jun 05 - 05:19 AM (#1497221)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Lepus Rex

How exactly is this "fuck(ing) 'em back," brucie? Do you imagine that your thread has the membership of the BNP collectively weeping beneath a forest of wilted St.George's crosses? Like jOhn said, you're only giving them free publicity, and I'm sure all two of them that'll actually read this thread will be absolutely thrilled. You see, your shrill expressions of outrage are the best kind of publicity for a group like this. When you're trying to appeal to disaffected young people, shrieking middle-aged protesters are pure advertising gold. You're playing right into their hands by painting the opposite of racism as something annoying, old fashioned and lame. When you demand they be silent, they're white trash Mandelas. Ban them, and they're fucking Elvis Presley.

This is what's happening in Germany. And this isn't what's happening in the US. Most of the people who show up to US neo-Nazi, KKK, and white power rallies are just there to gawk and laugh and swear at impotent midgets dressed like Hitler or toothless hillbillies in white sheets. The vast majority don't take such buffoonery seriously, and thus the threat is diffused. They're as dangerous as Mickey Mouse. (Shut up. People die at Disneyland.) Which system do you really think is more effective, brucie? Shrieking, or mocking?

There are real, everyday problems with real, everyday racism in our society, from ethnic profiling on our city streets, to the continued social and economic marginalisation of ethnic minorites, to the "war" on "terrorism." A pack of racist clowns having a folk-music barbecue in England is a distraction from these real issues, and nothing to gnash your teeth about. Yes, one should watch them. And, yes, one should oppose them. But don't legitimise them by acknowledging them as something to be feared or respected.

---Lepus Rex

---

01 Jun 05 - 07:43 AM (#1497270)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Grab

They are here because they are part of the British folk music society. They are here because they are part of British society and that culture, which has lost much of it's own identity because of political correctness and poor immigation laws, has allowed it to happen...

However, there is no KKK in any the folk music scene or in any part of American mainstream society. The British are losing their identity to the world.

Martin, I'm curious how you know this. You're American so you presumably have some knowledge of the folk music scene over there. How do you presume to know about the British folk music scene or British society? Answer: only through what you read in Mudcat.

Currently some posters are saying the BNP is trying to get into folk music. Fair enough - they can try if they want. But round any club I know of, they'll get dead silence if they try a racist song, and all club organisers I know would ask them to leave and not come back. You may also have noticed an amazing lack of anyone on Mudcat saying "I'd support them" except for a few Guest trolls. Not exactly well represented amongst the folk music scene, are they?

You may also be interested to know that there is no BNP in British mainstream society too. The BNP got comprehensively crushed at the recent elections - British elections require a party to ante up some money per each seat contested, which gets returned if you get more than a certain percent of votes. The BNP lost its money on every seat they contested. Not exactly "mainstream"...

I have been harping about the anti-semitism on Mudcat. They are here, and many, not all, regulars support them.

Disagreeing with you does not count as "anti-semitism".

Graham.

---

01 Jun 05 - 10:19 AM (#1497360)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Peace

OK, Lepus. You often make good sense and this might be one of those times. So instead of fuckin' them back I will mock them. BUT, I hope you won't object to the occasional 'fuck you' thrown their way.

The fact is though that they are already 'legitimized'.

See this excerpt from an online website that is against BNP:

"Stop the BNP was set up to counter racism and fascism in elections and beyond. The British National Party is fielding a record 118 candidates in the general election. While it has no hope of gaining any MPs in our first-past-the-post system, the BNP is hoping for strong results in a handful of target areas. Its priority is the May 2006 local elections and it is using the general election to identify its voters in its target wards, build up its own organisation and combat low morale within the party. At Searchlight we want to make sure that people know the full story about who the BNP are and what they really stand for. And we must continue to build the fight against the BNP in its target wards right up to the May 2006 elections. After the general election Stop the BNP will continue to serve the anti-fascist movement, providing up to date news and analysis."

I understand where you and LH are coming from with this--jOhn too--however it really bugs me to let this sewer slime just coast along with their friggin' bullshit and lies. Me not starting a thread about them will not alter the fact that THEY start threads about themselves. But, in the interest of internal peace I will ease up just a bit. We'll see where THAT goes.

BM

---

01 Jun 05 - 10:40 AM (#1497376)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Little Hawk

Awright, Lepus! Right flippin' on!!! (big grin)

I say, mock them, Bruce. Don't give them the satisfaction of taking them seriously. Remember that great song that the British comedian did (Was it Spike Milligan?)...

"Venn der fuhrer says, vee iss de master race...
Vee HEIL!!! (P-F-F-F-F-T!) HEIL!!! (P--P-P-P-L-L-F-F-F-T!)
RIGHT IN DER FUHRER'S FACE!!!!!"

---

01 Jun 05 - 10:43 AM (#1497382)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: jacqui.c

Let them out so that people can see what idiots they are. Don't make them matyrs by driving them underground.

I would say that in my experience of going to English folk clubs I have never come across anyone expressing BNP sentiments or performing racist songs. Every session I have been to opens its doors to anyone who cares to attend, anything to keep the tradition alive. Since I am not very knowledgeable about the folk scene in the USA I really wouldn't want to make myself look a prat by commenting on the political make up over here.

---

01 Jun 05 - 01:11 PM (#1497481)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Peace

When that Dave character was talking about how much the 'party' had changed--well, he's a little something about the leader of the party:


http://stopthebnp.org.uk/

Read the BNP Leader in Court on race changes

Yep, just a bunch of fun'lovin' folkies.

---

01 Jun 05 - 04:40 PM (#1497601)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Peace

Spike Jones?

---

01 Jun 05 - 04:47 PM (#1497605)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: gnu

LH... you wrote, "It sounds to me like you need a STRONG police presence on the street in those UK neighborhoods you are speaking of where these troublemakers hang out." I am in Moncton and brucie has dealt with these assholes in Alberta. Sorry if I misunderstood.

---

02 Jun 05 - 12:47 AM (#1497910)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: GUEST

Am I correct that those who refer to the British Nationalist Party as the British Nazi Party in Great Britian reflect the same attitude as those in the U. S. who who refer to Conservatives as Neo-Cons?

DougR

---

02 Jun 05 - 02:05 AM (#1497925)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Ebbie

Good lord, Doug. Only if you concede that American conservatives are racist and vicious and ready to consider deportation and/or genocide "for the cause." Wherever did you make that connection. No way are they comparable. As a group, that is. Individuals vary.

---

02 Jun 05 - 04:55 AM (#1497993)
Subject: RE: BS: British National Party ((BNP))
From: GUEST

Sorry, but i thought that David was jewish? Also i looked on google news bout the bnp and they have a jewish councillor! how can they be nazi's with jewish members and councillors?

years ago folk/protest music was the tradition of the underdog fighting for just causes such as civil rights and against the corrupt establishment who tried to knock the protest/folk scene, by responding to bnp and that dave hannam like you did, you are now the establishment, or a tool for it anyway, just because they differ politically to you you want them banned/destroyed and silenced? all because they want to make folk music. i think there are far greater crimes committed in the world today to worry about than a political party who lets face it have never killed anyone, so why the problem. I just want to hear what music they are bringing out.

---

02 Jun 05 - 05:01 AM (#1497997)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: GUEST

get your facts right the bnp didnt lose every deposit at all. your spreading lies.

"British elections require a party to ante up some money per each seat contested, which gets returned if you get more than a certain percent of votes. The BNP lost its money on every seat they contested. Not exactly "mainstream"...

---

02 Jun 05 - 09:59 AM (#1498175)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Peace

"Am I correct that those who refer to the British Nationalist Party as the British Nazi Party in Great Britian reflect the same attitude as those in the U. S. who who refer to Conservatives as Neo-Cons?"

I am the 'those' you are talking about.

So, you tell me: "Am I correct that you support this trash?"

---

02 Jun 05 - 10:31 AM (#1498201)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: GUEST,Allen

GUEST take a look at BNP ideology and compare it to that of the Nazis and the Facists. Not much to choose between them, no matter HOW many Jews might be in the BNP.

---

02 Jun 05 - 11:01 AM (#1498229)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Peace

An interesting aside is the number of people who do not want their names to be known (I think that is wise, BTW). That ought to tell ya lots.

The number of BNP people who are involved with racist activity is too high. Whatshisname was making all kinds of apologies for the party and its bad image. He even said they were getting the riffraff out of the party. Said they had turned over a new leaf five years ago. Hell, what bullshit. Seems the party leader is up on charges for distributing materials to incite race hatred.

Yep. Just a folkie group of boys who want to get together on Friday nights and beat up on women or men from 'minorities'. Garbage.

---

02 Jun 05 - 11:24 AM (#1498243)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: GUEST

bnp facts

---

02 Jun 05 - 11:49 AM (#1498271)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Peace

Thank you, GUEST. I posted that site elsewhere. Good of you to do so here. What slime, huh? And soooo disingenuous.

---

02 Jun 05 - 04:14 PM (#1498484)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Little Hawk

They (BNP) sound a lot like the most vociferous fans and architects of the Toronto Sun, a Canadian newspaper that thrives on fear, hatred and sensationalism of the most primitive and tawdry sort.

---

02 Jun 05 - 05:34 PM (#1498551)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Peace

"vociferous"

LH, you told me to tone down the language and I have. NOW, look at you! Well, if YOU can talk like that then so can I.

Hey, BNP, go vociferous yourselves.

---

02 Jun 05 - 05:53 PM (#1498573)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: gnu

Well put, LH... the Sun... trash. And from The Big Smoke, no less.
(The Big Smoke = T.O. = Tronna = Toronto, Ontario, Canada = Montreal without culture.)

---

02 Jun 05 - 06:45 PM (#1498636)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: GUEST,Karla H.

If it wasn't for the Toronto Sun and that loudmouth Rosie DiManno at the Star, most people would have forgotten about me by now. They must figure I'm the biggest threat to the world since Osama Bin Laden. I ought to charge the bastards royalties.

---

02 Jun 05 - 06:49 PM (#1498641)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Peace

Hey, Karla. You'd fit right in with the BNP (British Nazi Party). They are looking for people just like you.

---

03 Jun 05 - 12:44 PM (#1499292)
Subject: RE: BS: British Nazi Party ((BNP))
From: Grab

My apologies, Guest. Actual numbers for those who care: BNP contested 119 seats; BNP lost their £500 deposit in 84 of those (to lose your deposit requires less than a 5% share of the vote). Direct quote from the BBC: "The BNP's share of the UK vote was about 0.74%."

I should have researched instead of trusting my memory - my fault. It still stands though that the BNP is far from "mainstream".

Graham.

---