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02 Jun 05 - 05:41 PM (#1498564) Subject: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: chico Can any linguistical expert elucidate the proper pronouciations for these words: Grosvenor ( silent s or not?) Edinburgh ('Borough' or "Burg"?) Musselburgh (Mussel like 'muscle')? Tichbourne ('sh' or hard 'ch' sound?) Hotham (Hot-ham? or hoTHam like Gotham?) Elizabeth (16th century usuage: long or short 'i', like Eliza is pronounced today?) Tyburn (place of execution/beheading of Charles II. What is the 'y' sound, long or short?) |
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02 Jun 05 - 05:53 PM (#1498572) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST Grovenor (silent s) Tie- burn (like neck tie, then burn) |
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02 Jun 05 - 05:57 PM (#1498576) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: IanC Growvna Edinbra Musselbra Titchburn Hot-ham Elizabeth isn't eliiza beth Tie-burn :-) |
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02 Jun 05 - 06:07 PM (#1498591) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: Banjo-Flower No 1 Grosvenor=Grove-ner No2 Edinburgh (ask a Scot not an Englishman) No 3 Musselburgh (As Above) NO 4 Tichbourne = Titch- born 5& 6 =? No 7 = Tie or Ty(as in Ty Hardin)Burn Boy am I leaving myself wideopen here Gerry |
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02 Jun 05 - 06:14 PM (#1498598) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: Banjo-Flower Or should Tyburn be pronounced Tie-bun? Gerry even deeper in the mire |
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02 Jun 05 - 06:27 PM (#1498613) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST,Allen Grove-ner. Edinbra. Muscelbra. Titchburn. Hot-ham (said quickly). Elizabeth (short not like Eliza). Tie-burn. |
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02 Jun 05 - 06:40 PM (#1498631) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subj From: McGrath of Harlow "...place of execution/beheading of Charles II" - not an episode known to the historical record. Charles died in his own time. And his father Charles the First was executed in Whitehall, down the other end of London. Tyburn (pronounced with a tie) is at Marble Arch,and a very popular place of execution for the generality - highwaymen, and Catholic priests and so forth. It's quite near Speakers' Corner - I wonder if that tradition might have been a carry over from the crowds of spectators that used to attend on executions there for hundreds of years, and no doubt got haranged by orators on the scaffold and off it. |
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02 Jun 05 - 06:51 PM (#1498643) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subj From: GUEST,Peter from Essex Hotham Difficult, it depends on the derivation of the name and local usage. The element "ham" in a place name should correctly be pronounced separately but modern usage has often changed that. If you are looking for period pronounciation it may be different from modern. On the London / Essex border Walthamstow was historically pronounced walt-ham-stow but that changed to walth-'am-stow in the 19th century. On the other side of London the town of Chesham is pronouced Chesh-ham by incomers but you can still find locals who say ches-ham |
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02 Jun 05 - 07:01 PM (#1498652) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST I thought that Charles I was beheaded at the Banqueting House in Whitehall |
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02 Jun 05 - 07:12 PM (#1498659) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST So why do you pronounce the letter R as "Aw" but when a word ends with the letter A you add an R to the pronunciation? |
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02 Jun 05 - 07:28 PM (#1498666) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: Ebbie Because 'tis English, don' chew know. :) |
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02 Jun 05 - 07:32 PM (#1498667) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subj From: chico I accidentaly typed in an extra "I", I meant Charles I. The song in question is "lawyer's lamentation of charing-cross" The last words are: Now, WHIGS, I would advise you all, 'Tis what I'd have you do; For fear the King should come again, Pray pull down TYBURN too. This was written in 1647 2years before the beheading. Was this a premonition of the regicide, and the predicted spot? (whether or not it actually occured there? |
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02 Jun 05 - 07:33 PM (#1498668) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: Don(Wyziwyg)T BTW Chico, In the UK, it's not Pronounciation, but (following the Latin root) Pronunciation. I think you'll find most locals calling Hotham "Hottum". And Elizabeth is definitely short i, not like Eliza. For the rest, Gerry (Banjo-Flower) is right in his first post, including asking a Scot for Scottish pronunciations. Don T. |
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02 Jun 05 - 07:59 PM (#1498692) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: Leadfingers The reference to pulling down Tyburn too is that was where the Whigs were likely to finish up themselves , for rebelling against the Monarch ! |
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02 Jun 05 - 08:03 PM (#1498696) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subj From: chico The contemporary pro. of Elizabeth is short, but are you sure the period (time of Shakespeare 1550-1630) pronunciation of Elizabeth is short 'i'? At the time, words like "wind" were pronounced with a long 'i' (like to wind up a toy). The short i is mostly a modern creation in english as the language simplified (short i is easily to say). |
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02 Jun 05 - 08:17 PM (#1498709) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subj From: Bunnahabhain Well done to the original poster for remebering we are subjects, not citizens. I agree with the consesnus on all the pronunciations, BTW. |
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02 Jun 05 - 08:43 PM (#1498728) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: Malcolm Douglas As a rule, final -gh isn't voiced; that's what the "h" is for. I've only ever heard Edinburgh prounced with a final "g" by foreigners (they sometimes also say "Edin-broe". That's wrong, too). It should make no difference at all whether you ask a Scottish or English person; the only variation would be whether the final part is pronounced "bra" or "burra"; and that's merely down to how fast you say it. That "wined/winned" business is a red herring, really, as poetic diction doesn't reflect contemporary usage. "Mind" and "wind" used to rhyme, true; but neither word was pronounced quite as it is today. "Mind" used to have a shorter vowel sound than it does now. |
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03 Jun 05 - 07:52 AM (#1499054) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST,leeneia That said, how does one pronounce the given name Gervase? Or is it Gervaise? |
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03 Jun 05 - 08:15 AM (#1499068) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subj From: GUEST,Paul Burke For everything you want to know about Edinburgh, its history and its music, see Jack Campin's wonderful CD "Embro, Embro". That might give you a clue to at least one pronunciation too! Embro, Embro The American price gives you a very generous exchange rate just now! As for Tyburn, that's where executions were carried out, and where several of the Regicides (those who signed Charles I's death warrant) were hanged, drawn and quartered after the restoration. |
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03 Jun 05 - 08:45 AM (#1499096) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: Dave Hanson 'ow would banjflower know, he's just a yellowbelly. eric |
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03 Jun 05 - 09:58 AM (#1499151) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subj From: McGrath of Harlow I don't think that the term "whig" would have come into use as early as 1647, but not for another 30 years. I'd have thoiught a song with a verse like that woudl have been more likely from a Jacobite source, dating from a tiem after the coup that sent James II into exile. |
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03 Jun 05 - 11:01 AM (#1499201) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: Don(Wyziwyg)T In view of the fact that just about everyone agreed with him, Eric, I should say he proved that he knows...............He Knaws ye Knaw! Don T. |
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03 Jun 05 - 11:39 AM (#1499231) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subj From: McGrath of Harlow "...we are subjects, not citizens" Not true, though it's a common assertion. People are subjects of the Queen (or King as may be), and citizens of the country, whichever country that might be, both at the same time. |
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03 Jun 05 - 12:24 PM (#1499268) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: Doug Chadwick Well done to the original poster for remebering we are subjects, not citizens Bunnahabhain, you may be a subject but I am a citizen. Doug C |
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03 Jun 05 - 12:42 PM (#1499288) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: Ebbie If you noticed, DougR, we may not be called that, but we too are definitely subject to the vagaries of the government of the country we are citizens of. |
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03 Jun 05 - 02:03 PM (#1499367) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST,Allen Jarv-ace. Anyway, instead of arguing over how to pronunce Edinburgh, why not say Auld Reekie. |
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03 Jun 05 - 02:20 PM (#1499382) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subj From: Sorcha My all time favorite is Woolfardisworthy.....Woolsey! |
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03 Jun 05 - 04:12 PM (#1499511) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: brid widder I think Hotham is Hoth'm or Hothum |
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03 Jun 05 - 04:56 PM (#1499550) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST McGrath of Harlow, why do you say James II? I suppose you say Edward VII and not Edward II? |
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03 Jun 05 - 05:13 PM (#1499567) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: Santa Interesting to see the Chesh-ham/Ches-ham bit. Up here in Kirkham Lancashire, the adjacent village is Wesham: Wesh-um to most but Wess-um to some inhabitants. Or Wizzum. The next village is Greenhalgh - Greenhalsh or Greenhash. But Lytham is always Li-thum, never Light-ham or anything similar. In a more civilised county there's Alnwick - Annik. But everywhere in England you'll find similar. |
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03 Jun 05 - 05:13 PM (#1499569) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: Doug Chadwick "If you noticed, DougR,....." Wrong Doug, Ebbie DC |
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03 Jun 05 - 05:37 PM (#1499601) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST,Allen Woolfardisworthy doesn't beat Featherstonehaugh- Fanshaw! English is full of names like Mainwaring which should be said Mannering. Why does he say James II? Because that was the monarch's name perchance? |
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03 Jun 05 - 05:56 PM (#1499625) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subj From: McGrath of Harlow James II of England, Wales, Ireland, and a few other places, James VII of Scotland. But that's a bit of a mouthful. |
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03 Jun 05 - 06:00 PM (#1499631) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: Ebbie So right, Doug C - my apologies. |
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03 Jun 05 - 06:02 PM (#1499634) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST,Vice68 Round here, in Leith, (important distinction) it's(Edinburgh) pronounced "Embra" James II ruled from 1437 to 1460. Elizabeth the first is now on the throne. Her son would be Charles the third. Funny how "his" kids are William and Henry, good ecumenical/non-masonic names both..... |
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03 Jun 05 - 06:11 PM (#1499650) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: JohnInKansas This debate seems to be one of the few truly enduring traditions that some parts of the US inherited and retained from the Brits. I once lived in Boston on a street where the "proper pronunciation of the street name had divided residents for decades. The city had somewhat ameliorated the bitterness of the debate by placing a street sign at the end of the block, where those who lived on one side would likely enter so they could park in front without a U-turn, could use their favorite ROSS-e-ter, while at the other end of the block those of other inclination could see their preferred ros-ETT-er. One elderly person persistently went to the other end of the block, walked half way down and crossed in the middle because he said they put his sign on the wrong end of the block. A short way down the road, the divisions in sentiment and "certain and indisputible historical knowledge" had force the city to erect SEVEN separate signs, each with a different spelling, to identify the "roundabout" called Kosciuzko Circle. Locals all had their firmly held convictions about which was the correct spelling, although not all who agreed on the spelling had the same pronunciation. Significantly, none of them could tell you who "Ol' Kozzy" was, or why they named the circle after him. John |
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03 Jun 05 - 06:16 PM (#1499652) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST,Vice68 also...... I really HATE that way of saying (eg) "withdrawing" as if there's a 2nd R. AAAAAAAAARGH! |
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03 Jun 05 - 06:25 PM (#1499659) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: RobbieWilson So what about these, some Scottish, some English; Strathaven Milngavie Brewood Cholmondley Menzies StJohn Strathaven Stray ven Milngavie Mull guy Brewood Brood Cholmondley chum lay St John sin gin Menzies Mingus ( like Charley) |
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03 Jun 05 - 06:34 PM (#1499671) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: Don(Wyziwyg)T That last is more usually Ming-ies (pronounced like us, i.e. singies). Don T. |
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04 Jun 05 - 02:49 AM (#1499926) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: wildlone Cholmondley-----Chum lee I went to school there |
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04 Jun 05 - 03:20 AM (#1499934) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: Sliding Down The Bannister At My Auntie's House What about "Beau le eaux" - BOLLOCKS I believe it derives from the late 11th century Norman. |
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04 Jun 05 - 03:22 AM (#1499936) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: Sliding Down The Bannister At My Auntie's House Sorry that should have read "Beau les eaux" plural of course. the singular being "Testique alle" |
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04 Jun 05 - 03:33 AM (#1499940) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: Sliding Down The Bannister At My Auntie's House Whats all that cobblers about "ask a Scot, not an Englishman"? If something is posted here is it now autamaticaly classed as asking an Englishman? I thought it was addressed to the mnuddy community in general. Anyway Edinburgh is the ENGLISH name for Dùn Èideann (Fort of Aidan) which is the correct gaelic name for the town. |
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04 Jun 05 - 04:30 AM (#1499976) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST McGrath of Harlow, Edward VII was king of England, Ireland and Wales, but Edward Ist of Scotland, also a bit of a mouthful? Or why not be honest and admit you only use English titles. |
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04 Jun 05 - 07:54 AM (#1500025) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subj From: McGrath of Harlow I really HATE that way of saying... But why? The world is full of variation. The languages we talk varies, the way we look and the way we dress and the way we behave, and the music we play. That's how it's supposed to be. Surely it's entertaining living in a world like that, not something to "hate". ................ As for the citizen/subject stuff, just have a look at a UK passport some time. It unambiguously uses the term "citizen". |
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04 Jun 05 - 08:20 AM (#1500033) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST,padgett Try Higham = Hickham Barugh = Bark Notton (palindrome) Cudworth = Cuderth (Michael Parkinson's birthplace) Dodworth = Doderth All around Barnsley, Sth Yorkshire |
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04 Jun 05 - 11:23 AM (#1500112) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST,crazy little woman Re: The world is full of variation. The languages we talk varies, the way we look and the way we dress and the way we behave, and the music we play. -------- Well said and done, McGrath. I live in Missouri, and even the people who live here don't agree on how to pronounce it. I'm of the Missour-ee school, myself, along with most of the western part of the state. |
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04 Jun 05 - 11:23 AM (#1500114) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST,leeneia I still want to know how to pronounce Gervase. |
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04 Jun 05 - 12:34 PM (#1500150) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST,Allen Jarv-ace (emphasis on second syllable I think). Surprised nobody mentioned the village of twocester- TOASTER. |
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04 Jun 05 - 01:26 PM (#1500181) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subj From: McGrath of Harlow For that matter there's "London". Or "Washington", when you think about it. |
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04 Jun 05 - 01:28 PM (#1500183) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST,Allen Everyone knows it's Lunnon. |
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04 Jun 05 - 01:33 PM (#1500186) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: Banjo-Flower Thanks Folkman for being insulted when none was intended, Now tell me how many Scots call Edinborough "Dùn Èideann "and do they pronounce it in the Shetlands as they do in the Western Isles? Btw Folkman how would you pronounce Schenectady without offending an American or Whangarei Without upsetting a New Zealander? Gerry P.S Beau les eaux |
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04 Jun 05 - 05:14 PM (#1500258) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subj From: Uncle_DaveO Skuh NEK tuh dee Dave Oesterreich |
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04 Jun 05 - 05:39 PM (#1500261) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST,Tunesmith It's a funny thing about pronunciations, I remember a few years back there was a US quiz show hosted by Bill Cosby, and contestants were forever correcting Bill for his mispronuciation of there place names. But, of course, is no one correct pronuciation. For example, the majority of the inhabitants of Birmingham (UK) pronounce the "ham" section of the word " gum". Now, does that means the the rest of of us are pronoucing it incorrectly? |
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04 Jun 05 - 05:56 PM (#1500269) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST,Allen But everyone just calls them Brummies. |
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04 Jun 05 - 06:05 PM (#1500270) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST Shrowsbury or Shrewsbury? |
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04 Jun 05 - 06:28 PM (#1500279) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST Marry lee bone? or Marly bone? |
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04 Jun 05 - 06:47 PM (#1500287) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST,Don(Wyziwyg)T, by the back door What UK passport, McGrath? The one I've got says I'm a European Community citizen. I no longer have it, so can't say with absolute certainty, but I seem to remember that my old British passport requested that the bearer, a British subject, be allowed to pass without let or hindrance. Don T. |
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04 Jun 05 - 07:01 PM (#1500294) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST McGrath is right. I have just checked my old 10yr British passport... my NATIONAL STATUS is stamped as 'British Citizen.' On an even older Visitors Passport ( the one year one) it states on the cover... 'British Visitor's Passport for British Subjects : Citizens of United Kingdom and Colonies only.' |
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04 Jun 05 - 07:09 PM (#1500300) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST ps On my current European Union passport my nationality is stamped as 'British Citizen.' The wording inside the old British 10yr passport states.. 'Her Brittanic majesty's Principal Secretary of Statefor foreign and commonwealth affairs requests and requiresin the name of her Majestyall those whom it may concern to allow the bearer to pass freely without let or hindrance and to afford the bearer such assistance and protection as maybe necessary.' In the new euro passport they have dropped the 'principal' and 'for foreign and commonwealth affairs.' |
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04 Jun 05 - 07:29 PM (#1500303) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: Banjo-Flower Skuh NEK tuh dee Dave Oesterreich Thanks Dave but the Question was for Folkman Gerry |
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05 Jun 05 - 04:11 AM (#1500385) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST,Terry K Chesham is on the river Chess - if that's any guide.... Actually that's a bit of a red herring, because round here we say Chesh-um anyway. |
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05 Jun 05 - 04:44 AM (#1500393) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: George Papavgeris The ones I love are the Norman-origin ones, which invariably get pronounced with total disregard to their provenance or equivalent pronounciation in today's French: Bealieu = "Bee-ool-ey" (as in "Beulah" but different ending) Chesham Bois = Chesham "Boys" Pelham Fourneaux = "Plum Furnace" I am not sure about the reasons for such pronunciations, but it appeals to my folkie instincts to think that it was the Saxon everyman's way of sticking a finger up at the Norman conqueror. By the way, leeneia, it is "Gervays", the "G" as in German, the "vase" as the Americans might pronounce it. But my all-time favourite is that place you pass going over the Pennines towards Manchester: Penistone. The locals all call it "Penniston", but that seems silly to me; you have kidney stones, why not penis ones too? It's getting to the point where Vanessa nowadays asks that we go a different route, if we carry other passengers in the car... |
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05 Jun 05 - 04:46 AM (#1500394) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: George Papavgeris Oi, TerryK, you live in "Cheshum" too? |
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05 Jun 05 - 04:51 AM (#1500395) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST,Allen Left out Beaufort = Beaver and Beauchamps = Beechum. Anyway, the Normans had their own way of pronouncing French, offended (still does) French sensibilities. |
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05 Jun 05 - 06:51 AM (#1500430) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST,Terry K Being as the Normans were Vikings, that's not surprising. Something like the Bretons having their own language as well as some unusual pronunciations of French - apparently that pisses the French off no end. There's something attractive about things that piss the French off... El Greko (or may I call you El - clearly short for Elvis) I don't live in Cheshum but I do some business there. I'm in Herts. cheers, Terry |
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05 Jun 05 - 08:03 AM (#1500449) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST,Liz the Squeak You forgot Belvoir - Beaver..... Ask anyone who ever served in the armed forces and Beaufort will be pronounced Bo-fort, the name of a rather popular gun of WWII. There's a lovely one in Dorset spelled Puncknowle and pronounced Punnel. And to be pedantic, as the Princess of Wales insisted, it is William and Harry, not Henry. LTS |
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05 Jun 05 - 12:29 PM (#1500540) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subj From: McGrath of Harlow Harry is just a different way of writing Henry, using something closer to the French pronunication. ................................ Theydon Bois, near Epping, with the "bois" pronounced "boys ............................ Mind, how about "Coemhghen" pronounced "Kevin"? ................ Rather disappointingly Mousehole in Cornwall is pronounced Mowzel. Equally regrettably, the Thai tourist island of Phuket is in fact meant to be pronounced with an aspirated P sound rather than an F. |
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05 Jun 05 - 12:33 PM (#1500543) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: Cats Sorry but Woolfardisworthy isn't Woolery it's Woolsery. We live reasonably close to it and now the road signs even have Woolsery written in brackets beside it! |
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05 Jun 05 - 12:51 PM (#1500550) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST,Allen OOOPS I ment Belvoir, what a slip. It's especially amusing to me as there's a Crusader castle in the region called Belvoir (Belvwah). |
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05 Jun 05 - 04:48 PM (#1500708) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: Santa Beaufort (Bo-fort)was the aeroplane in WW2. The gun was the Bofors, built under licence from the original Swedish company. Just to upset the token Scot even more, isn't this Dun Edain just an invented form to hide the true original Edwin's Burg? King Edwin of Northumbria, which stretched up into what is now Fife, and covered what is now Northern England and the Scottish Lowlands. Shame it was driven out of existence, it makes a lot more sense to think of mainland Britain as the Celtic fringes, the Northern centre, and those damned sudanglii...... |
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05 Jun 05 - 05:39 PM (#1500738) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: GUEST Ascot "hello" "Air hair lair" |
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05 Jun 05 - 06:21 PM (#1500753) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: Liz the Squeak Harry is usually a shortened form of Harold, rather than Henry... The Princess of Wales insisted that his name was Harry, not Harold or Henry. LTS |
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05 Jun 05 - 06:54 PM (#1500766) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subj From: McGrath of Harlow "Harry is usually a shortened form of Harold, rather than Henry" I've never come across this. Nobody ever talks about King Harry getting an arrow in the eye in 1066, nor can I remember any political satirists targetting Harry Wilson or Harry Macmillan; and Shakespeare is pretty clear about "God for Harry, England and Saint George" in Henry V. I'm not disputing that there may be some Harrys who are really Harolds, but I'm doubting whether "usually" is correct. (And I wouldn't rely too much on Diana as an authority on many things... It's up to people to decide for themselves about those kinds of things, not their parents - as anyone with a name that exists in as many variations as Liz must surely agree.) |
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05 Jun 05 - 06:55 PM (#1500767) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronounciation req's for British Subjcts From: Gurney As a nod in the direction of his English ancestry, my boy's middle name is Ralph, pronounced 'Rafe'. Saxon for 'house wolf.' |
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10 Mar 07 - 03:18 AM (#1992321) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronunciation req's for British Subje From: GUEST,Iain It is possoble to have been (maybe still be) a british subject, and not a britich citizen but a citizen of a colony. |
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10 Mar 07 - 04:00 AM (#1992332) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronunciation req's for British Subjects From: Alec Interesting thread.Northumbrian place names have some not very obvious pronunciations as well. Ovingham,Eltringham & Bellingham are pronounced Ovingjum,Eltringjum & Bellingjum. Alnwick is pronounced Annick. |
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10 Mar 07 - 04:19 AM (#1992342) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronunciation req's for British Subje From: GUEST,Wolfhound person But Edlingham (NW of Alnwick) is not.....it's Ed-lingum How about Stagshaw? Stayshe..Staysha', Stagsha, stag-shaw. Depends on which village / area the speaker comes from / lives in Written from a village with a rare, for Northumberland, Celtic (welsh-type) name, where the natives still speak an impenetrable mixture of pitmatic and rural Northumbrian. It's English, all right, but with a built in time warp which makes it interesting. |
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10 Mar 07 - 06:17 AM (#1992388) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronunciation req's for British Subjects From: GUEST,Shimrod A Glawegian friend of mine tells me that in his home city the Duke of Edinburgh is known as the 'Chuke-in-Embra' - which causes me no end of amusement! There is a place on the North Norfolk coast called Holkham. I once heard two poets discussing it. One opined that it should be pronounced 'Hook-ham' whilst the other believed it should be Hoke-ham'. I'm afraid I interrrupted and said, "my Grandfather came from there and he pronounced it 'Holk-ham' - just like it's spelled". In my home town of Peterborough ('Peter-buruh') the barbarous local planners (there are no other sorts in England now) ripped down an old part of the town and drove through a large road which they named 'Bourges Boulevard', after Peterborough's twin town in France. To the end of his days my Dad insisted on pronouncing it, "Borges' Bullyvard" - good for you, Dad! |
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10 Mar 07 - 08:32 AM (#1992458) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronunciation req's for British Subjects From: Rusty Dobro Not forgetting Ightham ('Eye-tum'), Wrotham ('Root-um'), Happisburgh ('hayes-borough'), Wymondham ('wind-um'), Trottiscliffe ('trosley') and England ('in-gland'). Isn't Chumley pronounced Cholmondesleigh? |
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10 Mar 07 - 08:47 AM (#1992467) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronunciation req's for British Subjects From: s&r Gotham (Notts) is pronounced goat-um, stress on the first syllable. Goth um is for Batman. Here's a list Fom Wikipedia - sorry - from. Stu |
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10 Mar 07 - 11:55 AM (#1992589) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronunciation req's for British Subje From: dick greenhaus There's an old joke (1930's, I'd guess)about the Yank who was confused by British pronunciation. He shook his head sadly when told that "Worcester" came out "Wooster" and "Bethlehem" emerged as "Bedlam", but when he saw a theater with a sighn that proclaimed "Noel Coward's Blithe Spirit---pronounced success!" he packed up and went home. |
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10 Mar 07 - 02:13 PM (#1992728) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronunciation req's for British Subjects From: Dave Hunt Wednesbury in the Black Country is pronounced Wensb'ry and of cours we have West Bromwich = west bromich |
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10 Mar 07 - 03:49 PM (#1992845) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pronunciation req's for British Subjects From: GUEST,Sue A I know a Gervase who pronounces his name Ger-vayse, and a Gervaise who pronounces his Ger-vis. |