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03 Aug 05 - 08:55 PM (#1534540) Subject: Obit: General A. H. Mowhoush From: Amos From today's Washington Post: "Iraqi Maj. Gen. Abed Hamed Mowhoush was being stubborn with his American captors, and a series of intense beatings and creative interrogation tactics were not enough to break his will. On the morning of Nov. 26, 2003, a U.S. Army interrogator and a military guard grabbed a green sleeping bag, stuffed Mowhoush inside, wrapped him in an electrical cord, laid him on the floor and began to go to work. Again. It was inside the sleeping bag that the 56-year-old detainee took his last breath through broken ribs, lying on the floor beneath a U.S. soldier in Interrogation Room 6 in the western Iraqi desert. " The details of the inventions of brute force and coercion which were brought to bear to force General Mowhoush to talk can be found here in the Post. War is a desperate situation and it brings out the worst and most desperate in people. There is no telling what anyone of us would do faced with mortal combat, and under the basic equations of war, General Mowhoush was an enemy, pure and simple. He was, however, an enemy who had turned himself in, hoping that by doing so he could have his two sons freed from captivity. I find this description of his death a source of great shame and disgust. An enemy who is disempowered and rendered incapable of harm is not the same thing as man facing you with a Kalashnikov. This particular man was a prisoner. His treatment was brutal and savage. His karma may have called for a brutal and savage end. Who knows what deaths he engineered? But our karma should never be to deliver such endings to those in our power as prisoners. To do so makes us mindless and bestial and worse than the worst we accuse others of. I lay this disgust at the feet of the warmongers more than the crazed and desperate hamburger-raised young men who essentially committed murder in our name. I doubt any one of them could possibly imagined what they would end up in. But anyone who has lived through war should know. This is what Mister Bush has sent Americans into with his insane decisions. A |
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03 Aug 05 - 09:02 PM (#1534542) Subject: RE: Obit: General A. H. Mowhoush From: Peace Denounce Torture US and International Standards against Torture United States Bill of Rights (1789), Amendment 8 " ...nor (shall) cruel or unusual punishment be inflicted." Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948), Article 5 "No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment or punishment." Geneva Conventions (1949) Article 99, Third Convention "no moral or physical coercion may be exerted on a prisoner of war in order to admit himself guilty of the act of which he is accused " UN Minimum Standards for the Treatment of Prisoners (1957), Rule 31 "Corporal punishment, punishment by placing in a dark cell, and all cruel, inhumane or degrading punishments shall be completely prohibited..." International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination "... to guarantee the right of everyone, without distinction to race, color or national or ethnic origin, to equality before the law, notably in the enjoyment of the following rights: " (b) The right to security of person and protection by the State against violence or bodily harm, whether inflicted by government officials or by any individual group or institution..." America Convention on Human Rights (1969) "...All persons deprived of their liberty shall be treated with respect for the inherent dignity of the human person." UN Declaration on the Protection of All Persons from Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (1975) "No State may permit or tolerate torture...Exceptional circumstances such as a state of war ...or any other public emergency may not be invoked as a justification of torture or other cruel inhumane or degrading treatment or punishment." UN Code of Conduct for Law Enforcement Officials (1979), Article 5 "No law enforcement official may inflict, instigate or tolerate any act of torture...nor may any law enforcement official invoke superior order or exceptional circumstances...as a justification of torture...In this code of conduct, the term "law enforcement officials is said to include all officer of the law who exercise police powers, especially the powers of arrest or detention." |
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03 Aug 05 - 09:09 PM (#1534545) Subject: RE: Obit: General A. H. Mowhoush From: Peace Read it and weep. |
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04 Aug 05 - 12:17 AM (#1534574) Subject: RE: Obit: General A. H. Mowhoush (Nov 2003) From: katlaughing THIS is how he shapes our image in the world...speaking of karma I'd hate to have his. But our karma should never be to deliver such endings to those in our power as prisoners. To do so makes us mindless and bestial and worse than the worst we accuse others of. Absolutely! kat |
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04 Aug 05 - 12:30 AM (#1534581) Subject: RE: Obit: General A. H. Mowhoush (Nov 2003) From: number 6 here's more .... /www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/08/03/secret.detention.ap/index.html |
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04 Aug 05 - 12:37 AM (#1534587) Subject: RE: Obit: General A. H. Mowhoush (Nov 2003) From: number 6 the blue clicky failed ... go to this cnn website: http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/08/03/secret.detention.ap/index.html Amos .. "desperate hamburger-raised young men who essentially committed murder" ... these individuals will some day be back into our society. They are monsters created by the warmongers. sIx |
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04 Aug 05 - 12:51 AM (#1534596) Subject: RE: Obit: General A. H. Mowhoush (Nov 2003) From: DougR I am certainly not going to defend the actions of the people who caused this. It was wrong. But what is the point of this thread? Are you implying that General A. H. Mowhoush was a Saint? It would appear that you are smearing American troops with a very broad brush as heartless demons. Amos, you are so twisted for your hatred of George W. Bush that I think it is affecting your thinking. Anyone with any common sense at all whould have to know that a president ...ANY president, cannot be aware of what is going on in every corner of the world. This is not something he would condone, and if you were a fair person, which I am beginning to doubt, you would know that. DougR |
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04 Aug 05 - 12:58 AM (#1534602) Subject: RE: Obit: General A. H. Mowhoush (Nov 2003) From: number 6 Read the other posts Doug ... I suggest go to their mentioned websites. "read and weep" ... certainly is not something to be proud of, certainly nothing to make an excuse about .... Bush holds the highest executive office in the U.S. ... in someways the buck stops there ... wouldn't you agree. sIx |
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04 Aug 05 - 12:58 AM (#1534603) Subject: RE: Obit: General A. H. Mowhoush (Nov 2003) From: mack/misophist DougR: The point of this thread is that we're supposed to be the good guys. We're not supposed to do things like that. When it happens, some notice should be taken. Understand now? |
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04 Aug 05 - 01:12 AM (#1534612) Subject: RE: Obit: General A. H. Mowhoush (Nov 2003) From: DougR number 6/mack/misophist: read my goddam post! I did not condone the troop"s action! But I do not approve of gloating over the bad behaviour of those troops and rejoicing that it reflects negatively on our country as others do! Such gloating is sick, in my opinion, regardless of who the president is. Not terribly surprising since over the past few years the Mudcat has become entrenched with sickos. My opinon only of course. DougR |
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04 Aug 05 - 04:10 AM (#1534648) Subject: RE: Obit: General A. H. Mowhoush (Nov 2003) From: Paul Burke " I did not condone the troop"s action! " Yes you did. Because you then write: " Are you implying that General A. H. Mowhoush was a Saint?" - so torture should not be used on saints, but others must take their chance? and: "rejoicing that it reflects negatively on our country" - in other words, you want it swept under the carpet. and: " Mudcat has become entrenched with sickos" - those who expose and criticise torture are sickos? A REAL patriot would be calling for the punishment of those responsible- and not just the operatives on the scene, but the instigators of this barbarous policy, right to its fountainhead in the military hierarchy and in government. |
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04 Aug 05 - 08:28 AM (#1534756) Subject: RE: Obit: General A. H. Mowhoush (Nov 2003) From: Amos I suggest you read what I wrote and not what you assumed DougR. The point of this thread, DopugR, is that psychosis in action is really ugly. No, Bush could not have known the details. But if he were fit for his own duty he would have learned from history about the demoralization war causes. Condoned it? He might have smirked and turned away, because he didn't know about it. I think he has condoned it by silence. And he responsibility for the situation began when he ordered his troops across the Kuwait/Iraq border and started a hot war. He did that himself. A |
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04 Aug 05 - 01:07 PM (#1534945) Subject: RE: Obit: General A. H. Mowhoush (Nov 2003) From: CarolC Are you implying that General A. H. Mowhoush was a Saint? I think he was implying that General A. H. Mowhoush was a human being, DougR. But I don't expect you to understand why this is important. |
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04 Aug 05 - 01:48 PM (#1534970) Subject: RE: Obit: General A. H. Mowhoush (Nov 2003) From: DougR Thanks, Carol C. Osama Bin Laden is a human too, right? Would you invite him into your living room? Saddam is a human too, right? Would you ...oh never mind. DougR |
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04 Aug 05 - 02:09 PM (#1534999) Subject: RE: Obit: General A. H. Mowhoush (Nov 2003) From: CarolC So you put torture on the same level as "inviting into (my) living room"? This is why I don't expect you to understand why the fact that Gen. Nowhoush was human being is important. |
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04 Aug 05 - 02:28 PM (#1535021) Subject: RE: Obit: General A. H. Mowhoush (Nov 2003) From: katlaughing "rejoicing!!??" No one is rejoicing about this, Doug. NOBODY! |