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02 Sep 05 - 04:39 PM (#1554987) Subject: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: gnu I can't understand how some people can infers or deduce something from absolutely nothing. How can anyone say that the whale was teaching the others? Oh my, Greepeace and all the other twits will have a field day with this one. |
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02 Sep 05 - 04:41 PM (#1554988) Subject: RE: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: gnu Maybe that whale wouldn't have made that typo? |
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02 Sep 05 - 04:46 PM (#1554991) Subject: RE: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: Amos Well, how do you reckon the second whale came up with the same strategy? Coincidence? As the article mentions, chimps have also been known to spread new tactics from member to member of the same species. You might enjoy (or barf from) looking up the "100th Monkey" essay. Not sure how many instances are actually cited but I don't see why you think no learning--at least by imitating success for food -- is involved. A |
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02 Sep 05 - 04:52 PM (#1554994) Subject: RE: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: CarolC You don't think whales teach other whales stuff? I've seen cats teach stuff to their young. Whales are a lot smarter than cats. Also, I've seen an octopus learn from watching another octopus. Octopi are smart. I think it's fair to assume that whales are smarter than octopi. Chimps and gorillas who are able to communicate using human sign language teach that language to other chimps and gorillas. |
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02 Sep 05 - 04:54 PM (#1554995) Subject: RE: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: mack/misophist The cats I live with teach each other things all the time. Especially annoying things; especially if they're food related. That doesn't take a lot of brains. |
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02 Sep 05 - 05:15 PM (#1555012) Subject: RE: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: gnu Teaching does not equal learning. Apparently, I was not clear on that. Wait... yes, I was... that's why I started the thread. Hmmmm.... perhaps these whales are smarter than some of the humans? The whale that was catching the gulls was doing just that... catching the gulls. Nowhere does the article state that it put up signs, telephoned other whales, wrote a book about gull baiting techniques or whatever. The fact that the others watched and learned is neat. Wayyyy cool. But to infer that this whale taught the others is ludicrous... a human trait... called jumping to delusions. |
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02 Sep 05 - 05:30 PM (#1555020) Subject: RE: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: CarolC Teaching is not an exclusively human trait. When cats do it, it is purposeful teaching. I know... I've watched them do it. If cats are smart enough to purposefully teach, certainly whales are. |
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02 Sep 05 - 05:49 PM (#1555032) Subject: RE: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: Stilly River Sage I think you're nit-picking, gnu. If one whale knows how to catch gulls and the others observe this behavior, then they're learning from the first whale. It seems that the whale expert who says the one whale taught the others is in a better position to reach this conclusion than those of us who simply read the report on the findings and who might question them. That's not to say that no one should question science. It needs that continual dialog to remain viable. But what in that sequence of events don't you find believable? The fact that animals can teach and learn? For a long time humans in many cultures have been certain that they are superior to "dumb animals" in so many ways. Some find it off-putting to find that we have smart company in the animal kingdom. Just look at anyone who has tried to keep squirrels out of their bird feeders. SRS |
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02 Sep 05 - 06:00 PM (#1555045) Subject: RE: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: Crystal I expect that whales are up there with duck billed Platapi and elephant fish as creatures with the most complex brains in the planet. We humans are apparently number five or something! |
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02 Sep 05 - 06:21 PM (#1555063) Subject: RE: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: McGrath of Harlow The term has always been "a school of whales" hasn't it? |
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02 Sep 05 - 06:40 PM (#1555075) Subject: RE: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: GUEST,Jon A |
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02 Sep 05 - 06:43 PM (#1555078) Subject: RE: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: GUEST,Jon Try again |
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02 Sep 05 - 06:50 PM (#1555087) Subject: RE: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: Sorcha And, it does seem that whales talk and have a language.....who really knows? |
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02 Sep 05 - 07:18 PM (#1555104) Subject: RE: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: Amos Documentation of Japanese monkeys teaching new behaviours -- a rebuttal to Kesey's "Hundredth Monkey" but a good one in its own right -- can be found at this page (http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC09/Myers.htm). A |
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02 Sep 05 - 08:34 PM (#1555170) Subject: RE: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: Cluin A group of whales is a pod, MGoH. Fish travel in schools. |
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02 Sep 05 - 08:45 PM (#1555179) Subject: RE: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: Peace And fish that have been eaten by whales are called lunch. |
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02 Sep 05 - 08:50 PM (#1555185) Subject: RE: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: Cluin Except when they yack them back up on the surface. Then it's seagull bait. |
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02 Sep 05 - 08:52 PM (#1555186) Subject: RE: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: Peace And the base for many really expensive perfumes. |
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03 Sep 05 - 05:32 AM (#1555298) Subject: RE: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: gnu Hehehehelarious. |
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03 Sep 05 - 05:39 AM (#1555301) Subject: RE: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: gnu I think it was Robin Williams who said, "That guy is slicker than whale shit." |
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03 Sep 05 - 06:32 AM (#1555323) Subject: RE: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: gnu Okay... I just don't know why... to me it's plain and simple. All the other whales knew how to do this and THEY were teaching Nummy how to do it. You know, coaching him, giving him encouragement, critiquing his technique. Obvious to me. |
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03 Sep 05 - 06:45 AM (#1555333) Subject: RE: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: Paul Burke Why shouldn't whales learn? Do you really think that learning is confined to humans? That there is an unbridgeable gulf between us and lower creation that sets us specially apart? Foxes learn- they have adapted their habitat from the countryside to towns within the last hundred years- far too fast for the change to have come about by genetic mutation and natural selection. The notorious blue tit milk bottle heist can only have come about since the introduction of milk bottles. Or are you saying that blue tits are genetically predisposed (pre- adapted) to stealing milk? |
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03 Sep 05 - 07:11 AM (#1555344) Subject: RE: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: gnu Hehehe. Who has more fun than people, eh? |
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03 Sep 05 - 08:02 AM (#1555367) Subject: RE: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: McGrath of Harlow Lots of collective terms for whales, Cluin, and school is one of them - so is pod, and also cete, gam and herd. See here. |
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03 Sep 05 - 05:54 PM (#1555616) Subject: RE: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: gnu Nits and tits. And I am a twit. Whale oil beef hooked. Spock... can.. you... shed... some.... light on this matter? And... make... the crew of... the Café understand? Well, Captain, by all logic and scientific rigor, yeer fooked. They are only human. Right... then... fillet... that order. Bring... er... ead... round... ta the weather... and... warp mind. Enrage. |
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03 Sep 05 - 05:57 PM (#1555619) Subject: RE: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: Amos The teenybopper was explaining to the whale how she hangs out at the mall, talking about boys and cool music. Sort of like a clique, she saidf. "Oh." the whale replied. "Ipod". Sorry..... A |
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03 Sep 05 - 08:38 PM (#1555714) Subject: RE: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: gnu Okay.... maybe this scientist was at a competition where each whale, in turn, would upchuck some fish and try to get a gull. Maybe the "observers" were actually judges who were scoring the "chucker" on time, delivery, poise in the hunt, finesse in the kill, and artistic spitting out of the feathers. Like, whale rodeo, right, man, eh? |
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03 Sep 05 - 09:31 PM (#1555739) Subject: RE: BS: Whales TEACHING whales? From: Cluin Maybe they were frat whales and found a new game. Yeah, McGrath, but I don't accept that. Whales are mammals and have been called fish too long by the ignorant anti-cetic; they deserve their own collective term. ;) |